wristwister

What is it, PNW?

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Any of you locals know anything about this beast?

 

I was up in Anacortes moving my boat back to her slip and this monster came by, being towed into place by a couple dinghys. I asked the guys working her if it was a new boat and if it was built in Anacortes, yes on both counts. I'd estimate it to be around 80 feet. Can't say I'm enamored by her lines, but I'd give my left nut to take her through the islands for a week.

 

gallery_35769_392_5089.jpg

 

gallery_35769_392_42975.jpg

 

 

 

 

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It kind of looks like a J111 pumped up to 100 psi. Once loaded and on it's lines with the rig on it should look better, but still too much freeboard.

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It kind of looks like a J111 pumped up to 100 psi. Once loaded and on it's lines with the rig on it should look better, but still too much freeboard.

Raceboats don't need freeboard, fast passagemakers do.

 

I like it.

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If it IS the Donovan project, that is one that has been in-build for 4+ years now I think. Looks pretty good though, you gotta admit - the guy can draw a boat.

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How tall is the rig?

 

*edit*

http://www.jpdonovandesign.com/new_site/index.php/projects/current-projects/t4-project

 

From Sail Magazine:

"in Anacortes, Washington, White Knight Yachts is building an 87-footer to a Jim Donovan design. The new T4 cruiser-racer maxi, as its being called, will feature a lifting keel, hydraulic winches, a carbon rig, dual helms and an expansive teak deck."

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Wow Fantastic News That will be a Serious Beast in a Breeze

some serious tenacity to stay with the project through to completion with the various curve balls thrown at him

I would say a true renaissance man

 

post-3763-1254593097_thumb.jpg

 

image002.gif Yes Varan ..love the 20'+

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On its way to Canada, I wonder why????

 

 

........3rd world labor rates. :mellow:

Canadian Dollar 1 CAD = 0.763452 USD

 

 

And old world quality.

 

its been in Anacortes for 4+ years...... whats taken so long? its 9 months to build an open 60, or if you push hard something like Comanche.

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There's a finished Perry design sitting in a building in North Carolina thats never been splashed!

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Tbone is correct. That is the project that has been dragging on in Anacortes for the last few years. It's heading north to have the interior finished as I heard.

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On its way to Canada, I wonder why????

 

60 days is all you get in Washington before the tax man cometh.

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On its way to Canada, I wonder why????

60 days is all you get in Washington before the tax man cometh.

That 60 days starts after it has been commissioned and delivery to the owner has taken place,

Although I don't know the final closing status on this boat.

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I believe the owner completed this boat on his own. So the 60 days starts when it "enters the waters of the state of Washington".

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On its way to Canada, I wonder why????

 

60 days is all you get in Washington before the tax man cometh.

 

 

Yes, but you can also file for a 60 day extension-- one time, I think.

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Any of you locals know anything about this beast?

 

I was up in Anacortes moving my boat back to her slip and this monster came by, being towed into place by a couple dinghys. I asked the guys working her if it was a new boat and if it was built in Anacortes, yes on both counts. I'd estimate it to be around 80 feet. Can't say I'm enamored by her lines, but I'd give my left nut to take her through the islands for a week.

 

gallery_35769_392_5089.jpg

 

gallery_35769_392_42975.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck tacking her through any of the passes, or anchoring her in any of the scenic bays. She's be great offshore, in the bahamas or S.Pac. Useless in the SJI's.

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What are the handles on the starboard stern just above the waterline? Is that a suction cup device that is just on there temporarily?

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What are the handles on the starboard stern just above the waterline? Is that a suction cup device that is just on there temporarily?

 

Something to do with the rudders I would guess. Exactly what, IDK.

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Good luck tacking her through any of the passes, or anchoring her in any of the scenic bays. She's be great offshore, in the bahamas or S.Pac. Useless in the SJI's.

 

 

Useless? C'mon. Hardly. Sure you couldn't go through Mosquito Pass with that draft (not a big loss), but otherwise, where couldn't go in the SJI's that you can with a 40 footer and 7' draft. I can't think of any place. With a non-overlapping headsail you could doublehand that thing all over the SJI's. It would be a blast.

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Good luck tacking her through any of the passes, or anchoring her in any of the scenic bays. She's be great offshore, in the bahamas or S.Pac. Useless in the SJI's.

 

 

Useless? C'mon. Hardly. Sure you couldn't go through Mosquito Pass with that draft (not a big loss), but otherwise, where couldn't go in the SJI's that you can with a 40 footer and 7' draft. I can't think of any place. With a non-overlapping headsail you could doublehand that thing all over the SJI's. It would be a blast.

 

 

Yup,

 

A lot of boats do clang into rocks in PNW, but it's usually due to navigational errors.

 

I think i read somewhere in SA where Bob Perry said that for PNW, he likes boats with as much draft as possible - because draft is not an issue here..

 

MInd you, i'm just going by recollection - Bob may have something different to say about it.

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Good luck tacking her through any of the passes, or anchoring her in any of the scenic bays. She's be great offshore, in the bahamas or S.Pac. Useless in the SJI's.

 

 

Useless? C'mon. Hardly. Sure you couldn't go through Mosquito Pass with that draft (not a big loss), but otherwise, where couldn't go in the SJI's that you can with a 40 footer and 7' draft. I can't think of any place. With a non-overlapping headsail you could doublehand that thing all over the SJI's. It would be a blast.

 

 

Yup,

 

A lot of boats do clang into rocks in PNW, but it's usually due to navigational errors.

 

I think i read somewhere in SA where Bob Perry said that for PNW, he likes boats with as much draft as possible - because draft is not an issue here..

 

MInd you, i'm just going by recollection - Bob may have something different to say about it.

 

 

 

It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

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She's at Canoe Cove.

 

Maybe I'll mosey over and have a look.

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It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

 

 

 

It's quite easy to get around the Salish in a large boat properly designed for it. That would be one without sails and with a reliable diesel motor. Sails are relatively useless where there is no wind, unless you are in love with the romance of having them furled on the boom. I have seen such proper PNW vessels 175' long even up the Malibu Straights in Princess Louisa - mind you that would take some balls.

 

:)

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It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

 

 

 

It's quite easy to get around the Salish in a large boat properly designed for it. That would be one without sails and with a reliable diesel motor. Sails are relatively useless where there is no wind, unless you are in love with the romance of having them furled on the boom. I have seen such proper PNW vessels 175' long even up the Malibu Straights in Princess Louisa - mind you that would take some balls.

 

:)

 

 

You just got a bad year. Usually we get at least thirty days a year with wind in February alone.

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It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

 

 

 

It's quite easy to get around the Salish in a large boat properly designed for it. That would be one without sails and with a reliable diesel motor. Sails are relatively useless where there is no wind, unless you are in love with the romance of having them furled on the boom. I have seen such proper PNW vessels 175' long even up the Malibu Straights in Princess Louisa - mind you that would take some balls.

 

:)

 

 

You just got a bad year. Usually we get at least thirty days a year with wind in February alone.

 

 

 

I've had some great conditions in the Salish, but overall I found myself motoring more than sailing. Gotta catch the tides right getting across the Strait, or through the pass, or before the winds die. Let's not forget the usual encounter with aggressive ferry boat captains. I moved to San Diego and have been sailing a ton more due to the spectacular sailing conditions and infinite amount of sea room for long tacks. Instead of tacking a bazillion times to go north, I just stay on one tack until I'm a little more than half way there, then tack back. Wow. Easy.

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You just got a bad year. Usually we get at least thirty days a year with wind in February alone.

 

 

 

I guess that is my problem. Growing up and learning to sail on San Francisco Bay, I am used to 60 days of wind in February.

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It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

 

 

 

It's quite easy to get around the Salish in a large boat properly designed for it. That would be one without sails and with a reliable diesel motor. Sails are relatively useless where there is no wind, unless you are in love with the romance of having them furled on the boom. I have seen such proper PNW vessels 175' long even up the Malibu Straights in Princess Louisa - mind you that would take some balls.

 

:)

 

 

You just got a bad year. Usually we get at least thirty days a year with wind in February alone.

 

 

Ish,

 

That is a pretty good stat you provided about the winds on the Salish Sea! Who would have ever guessed they could be so consistent. That must be why a well designed sailboat for that area really needs a 182 deg AVS...

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Good luck tacking her through any of the passes, or anchoring her in any of the scenic bays. She's be great offshore, in the bahamas or S.Pac. Useless in the SJI's.

Useless? C'mon. Hardly. Sure you couldn't go through Mosquito Pass with that draft (not a big loss), but otherwise, where couldn't go in the SJI's that you can with a 40 footer and 7' draft. I can't think of any place. With a non-overlapping headsail you could doublehand that thing all over the SJI's. It would be a blast.

Yup,

 

A lot of boats do clang into rocks in PNW, but it's usually due to navigational errors.

 

I think i read somewhere in SA where Bob Perry said that for PNW, he likes boats with as much draft as possible - because draft is not an issue here..

 

MInd you, i'm just going by recollection - Bob may have something different to say about it.

 

It's difficult enough with a 40'er getting around the Salish. Lack of winds and lots of boat traffic makes sailing a challenge. Multiply that by linear feet and you end up with a motorsailor instead of enjoyable passage. Most tacks last no more than fifteen minutes, if there is even wind.

You'll spend far less time motoring this big boat than a typical 40' cruising boat. Far less.

 

Can't agree on the lack of wind and traffic making sailing a challenge. We sail the majority of the time. Helps to have a boat that sails well in light air.

 

15 minutes on one tack is a long time if you spend any time racing.

 

I guess we just see it differently. The boat would be a blast for us in the Salish. For you, maybe not.

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I moved to San Diego and have been sailing a ton more due to the spectacular sailing conditions and infinite amount of sea room for long tacks. Instead of tacking a bazillion times to go north, I just stay on one tack until I'm a little more than half way there, then tack back. Wow. Easy.

 

Too funny. We moved from the PNW to San Diego and found sailing in SD incredibly boring. Mostly light winds, large swell, and nowhere to go. You just sailed out until you got bored and then turned around. Much prefer the variety of passes and channels in the Salish. Lots of sail handling keeps it intersting.

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I moved to San Diego and have been sailing a ton more due to the spectacular sailing conditions and infinite amount of sea room for long tacks. Instead of tacking a bazillion times to go north, I just stay on one tack until I'm a little more than half way there, then tack back. Wow. Easy.

Too funny. We moved from the PNW to San Diego and found sailing in SD incredibly boring. Mostly light winds, large swell, and nowhere to go. You just sailed out until you got bored and then turned around. Much prefer the variety of passes and channels in the Salish. Lots of sail handling keeps it intersting.

 

 

 

...sounds like you got out of SD before your brain got bleached. :mellow:

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I moved to San Diego and have been sailing a ton more due to the spectacular sailing conditions and infinite amount of sea room for long tacks. Instead of tacking a bazillion times to go north, I just stay on one tack until I'm a little more than half way there, then tack back. Wow. Easy.

Too funny. We moved from the PNW to San Diego and found sailing in SD incredibly boring. Mostly light winds, large swell, and nowhere to go. You just sailed out until you got bored and then turned around. Much prefer the variety of passes and channels in the Salish. Lots of sail handling keeps it intersting.

 

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQ_E3z4BFe3/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQtFtdIhy8v/

 

Yep super boring here.

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I've wondered why the PNW produces superior sailors.

 

 

Nobody can snoop out a little puff and take advantage of it like a PNW racer. I'm still way behind the learning curve on this. My strategy, if the good racers are all going in a weird direction that makes no sense to me, trust them and go there too.

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It's the new Trader!!!

 

I think 'new' is a bit of a stretch considering when this project got started. I'm amazed it even splashed and a lot of people got screwed over by FD on the way.

 

-Snap

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if the good racers are all going in a weird direction that makes no sense to me, trust them and go there too.

...and that *is* the one thing boring about racing in the Sound. The prevailing tactic for many boats seems to be "find someone named Buchan or McKee and follow them around the race course".

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That doesn't always work in tricky conditions. Look at the results from yesterday. I have to wonder how much racing you've done here to form that opinion.

 

I love the puzzle of racing here, even on frustrating light air days when I get a dnf. I still have a lot to learn out here.

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On 3/4/2017 at 9:58 AM, sledracr said:

...and that *is* the one thing boring about racing in the Sound. The prevailing tactic for many boats seems to be "find someone named Buchan or McKee and follow them around the race course".

Reverse starts make that strategy trickier, until they pass you.  Then it works.....until you can't see them any more.  Oh well.

Sailing a deep draft race boat around the SJIs or Gulf Islands is a delight.  Our basic approach has been to leave the awning up and just use a jib or spinnaker depending on direction.  Motor through lees or channels.  Look at the chart occasionally.  The main is an annoyance, mostly. 

That T4 boat should be a lot of fun, but Cascadia is still prettier.  

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Wow! That looks to be the outfit who towed the boat to BC. Who is Blue Seas Inc?

The Mounties always get their boat? 

Image result for royal canadian mounted police seized boatsImage result for t4 sailboat donovan

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Blue Sea is the company that makes a lot of electrical gear. https://www.bluesea.com/

Blue Seas Inc may or may not be the same company, but they are the most likely. Otherwise, it's a company that sells cowrie shell necklaces. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Blue Sea is the company that makes a lot of electrical gear. https://www.bluesea.com/

Blue Seas Inc may or may not be the same company, but they are the most likely. Otherwise, it's a company that sells cowrie shell necklaces. 

That was the first thing that popped into my mind Ish. I doubt they had enough breaker panels in T4 to justify a seizure on that scale!. 

     Who was that boat built for? It seemed like towing it to Canada in such a incomplete state was a desperate move to prevent just such a seizure.

On 3/4/2017 at 9:23 AM, Snapper said:

I'm amazed it even splashed and a lot of people got screwed over by FD on the way.

Who is FD? A line of people trying to recover from the screwing?

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Somebody said TRADER.

Fred Detwiller was the owner of three different boats named TRADER.

This boat is named T4.

Hmmm......

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Ravine Marine Services, that's pretty funny. I think they mean Raven Marine Services.

Blue Seas Inc North Carolina, is probably a LLC for the owner to protect against personal lawsuits against the owner during the build.

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1 hour ago, ropetrick said:

Somebody said TRADER.

Fred Detwiller was the owner of three different boats named TRADER.

This boat is named T4.

Hmmm......

I had finally made the Detwiler connection through someone mentioning TRADER. Not surprised to see the papers slapped on the boat. Guess he stiffed the tow guys who towed it out of the grasp of Betts who started the build. Should have hired a US tow company... 

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17 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I had finally made the Detwiler connection through someone mentioning TRADER. Not surprised to see the papers slapped on the boat. Guess he stiffed the tow guys who towed it out of the grasp of Betts who started the build. Should have hired a US tow company... 

Jim was more than happy to walk away from that project. It cost him his shop space but he's in a better location now. I wonder if Donovan ever got paid in full?

The Trader legacy is one of people getting screwed by a nut bag owner. This boat is just another chapter in that legacy...

 

-Snap

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 12:41 PM, Rasputin22 said:

Wow! That looks to be the outfit who towed the boat to BC. Who is Blue Seas Inc?

 

My guess is Blue Seas is the builder (HIN starts with BSY - Blue Seas Yachts?)

 

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On March 1, 2017 at 9:20 PM, DDW said:

 

 

It's quite easy to get around the Salish in a large boat properly designed for it. That would be one without sails and with a reliable diesel motor. Sails are relatively useless where there is no wind, unless you are in love with the romance of having them furled on the boom. I have seen such proper PNW vessels 175' long even up the Malibu Straights in Princess Louisa - mind you that would take some balls.

 

:)

No no no- the idea is to motor around with the main up, and the jib furled,  just in case........it's tradition, after all- & it looks nice too!  Sometimes you can get 10 minutes of sailing in!  Aaaargh, laddie!

But if you're cheeky enough to own a light air flyer (as we take a bow), be prepared to be ignored or worse......

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On March 2, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Jammer Six said:

 

I've wondered why the PNW produces superior sailors.

Because you actually have to like sailing.....

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50 minutes ago, DDW said:

It produces superior drifters, not sailors. 

Olympic caliber drifters, collegiate sailor of year drifters, and world champion drifters, apparently...

We'll just ignore the fact that I just sailed from Seattle to Port Townsend on Saturday, Port Townsend to Seattle on Sunday, and Seattle to the San Juans on Monday.  120nm.  Motored for about 30 minutes early Monday morning before I woke up enough to get the main and spinnaker up.  

Sorry, but the sailing up here is outstanding and, of course, the scenery is outstanding too.  Raced in February.  Not too cold and so windy that only 2 boats put up spinnakers and 2 boats broke their masts.  

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24 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Olympic caliber drifters, collegiate sailor of year drifters, and world champion drifters, apparently...

We'll just ignore the fact that I just sailed from Seattle to Port Townsend on Saturday, Port Townsend to Seattle on Sunday, and Seattle to the San Juans on Monday.  120nm.  Motored for about 30 minutes early Monday morning before I woke up enough to get the main and spinnaker up.  

Sorry, but the sailing up here is outstanding and, of course, the scenery is outstanding too.  Raced in February.  Not too cold and so windy that only 2 boats put up spinnakers and 2 boats broke their masts.  

No. No. No.

 

There is no wind. No sun. No reason to move here! Slugs the size of small dogs. Its so gray here that your sails will mildew in the summer. 

 

Stay away!

 

WL

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Actually, you myopic trollops, the PNW and SD produce excellent sailors. I've been in both worlds and have learned a shit ton about currents and various effects. I believe this thread is about the Trader fiasco so keep it in check.

 

-Snap

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1 hour ago, Snapper said:

Actually, you myopic trollops, the PNW and SD produce excellent sailors. I've been in both worlds and have learned a shit ton about currents and various effects. I believe this thread is about the Trader fiasco so keep it in check.

 

-Snap

Southe Dakotta?

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12 hours ago, DDW said:

It produces superior drifters, not sailors. 

You may have the wrong boat, or you don’t sail in the winter.....

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21 hours ago, Roleur said:

Sorry, but the sailing up here is outstanding and, of course, the scenery is outstanding too.  

The scenery is outstanding. The sailing, not so much, depending on your reference frame. 

I have a pretty good light air boat, and have sailed it there from April - November, so not strictly in Winter. 

Outstanding sailing first and foremost requires dependable wind. 

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38 minutes ago, DDW said:

Outstanding sailing first and foremost requires dependable wind. 

Depends on your definition of outstanding sailing. A perfect constant breeze from a constant direction sure makes for simple planning and fast sailing. Yeah, that's fun and all. But when your route from point A to point B is filled with wind shifts around every point of land and tricky currents to be negotiated ... well, maybe I'm a masochist, but I think that's a BLAST!  Hoisting your entire sail inventory in one race, rail in the water intermixed with bobbing aimlessly on glass, using an anchor as a racing tool ... love it!

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That's true, while racing you are all in the same boat so to speak. For cruising, less obvious fun. You are trying to get from point A to point B before the season ends. Daysailing off of Port Townsend, or Seattle, or a few other places where there is occasionally wind is fun. There's a reason, though, that in the Age of Sail people trying to get somewhere stuck to places where there is wind. 

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You don’t need tons of wind to cruise in the SJ’s.  Everything is so close, if you go to fast, you won’t have time to sail.  Which is why you have a sailboat, right?  Cruising in the BVI’s for the most part, with great trade winds everyday, is ok, but you have to almost sail around a few extra hours so you don’t get to the next bay too fast!

I have cruised there in everything from a Tanzer 22 to a Cal 46 and most things in between.All is good.  We sold our Peterson 37 when we move to Hawaii.  Sure, we have trade winds most the time, great sailing.  Warm water, warm weather.  Sun.  But no where to go!  But can have great Laser sailing in the ocean with breeze!

Now, back to this new big boat.  What is up with it now????

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Ah, Sidney. Hell, I was just up there, my boat's in the next marina over. I'll have to go see this beastie next time I'm out there.

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2 hours ago, MarkFin said:

Still there. Any word what is happening?

 

20180907_152832.thumb.jpg.9cb6c6d310f543273fc09eacf086d8e5.jpg

20180907_153034.jpg

20180907_153615_001.jpg

20180907_153637_001.jpg

that's a proper cruising boat.

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On 12/17/2018 at 5:43 PM, 12 metre said:

Nova Scotia?

Sidney, BC. Not Sydney Aus. or Nova Scotia. It's actually at Canoe Cove, BC. Been there lots

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On 12/17/2018 at 1:11 PM, nwrig said:

Allegedly stuck in Sydney

 

On 12/17/2018 at 2:12 PM, Ishmael said:

Australia?

 

On 12/17/2018 at 5:43 PM, 12 metre said:

Nova Scotia?

 

12 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Sidney, BC. Not Sydney Aus. or Nova Scotia. It's actually at Canoe Cove, BC. Been there lots

Yes, I am aware.  I was just carrying on the theme of cities named "Sydney".

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Yes. It’s anoter amazing tale of rich people with no ethics. Be glad your brainchild isn’t arrested under Admiralty  Court...

BTW, did anyone ever buy or build your 40’ that looks like a 210? I didn’t see any plans available on your website and thought it was a great project that would be a winner for someone.

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On 12/25/2018 at 8:55 AM, Sail4beer said:

Yes. It’s anoter amazing tale of rich people with no ethics. Be glad your brainchild isn’t arrested under Admiralty  Court...

BTW, did anyone ever buy or build your 40’ that looks like a 210? I didn’t see any plans available on your website and thought it was a great project that would be a winner for someone.

Sail for Wine.

Yes, the boat burnt. Some interest after. But the inspiration came from Ray Hunt and Hunt Yacht Design. My fiberglass version is interesting by her method of construction. www.tantonyachtdesign.com  Boat Plans.

610-R06A.jpg

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Beautiful.

I’ll take another look!

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