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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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I will have a new racing main in the spring for my Hanse 370 which I will use for both cruising and racing (weekly buoys and distance). In the past I have had a stack pack type mainsail handling system. I need to decide what type of main sail handling system I'll use for this new main. Either (1) a stack pack type system that I can roll up against the boom when racing with integral lazy jacks or (2) lazy jacks that I can take forward to the mast while racing or leave up while cruising with a standard sail cover with cut-outs for the lazy jacks. Your thoughts?

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Option 2. I find stack packs ugly and a spider breeding ground, at least the sail cover can be shaken out. It sounds like more often you're going to be using the boat for racing, and moving the lazy jacks forward/back will take less time than rolling up the stack pack.

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I will have a new racing main in the spring for my Hanse 370 which I will use for both cruising and racing (weekly buoys and distance). In the past I have had a stack pack type mainsail handling system. I need to decide what type of main sail handling system I'll use for this new main. Either (1) a stack pack type system that I can roll up against the boom when racing with integral lazy jacks or (2) lazy jacks that I can take forward to the mast while racing or leave up while cruising with a standard sail cover with cut-outs for the lazy jacks. Your thoughts?

 

Stackpack if shorthanded/two up.

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I have a boat with similar size main and it came with a stack pack system. I used it for the first season (racing and a few weeks cruising). Rolled to the boom for racing.

 

For the second season I bought a normal boom cover and took the lazy jacks off. That was 2012 and I never have missed the stack pack nor tha lazy jacks. I can fold the main over the boom single handed in about one minute and prefer to do it without help. I just can't see what would be the benefit of the lazy jacks and the stack pack. Maybe one reason is that I can take the sails down in a wind shadow of land or an island almost every time.

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I have lazy jacks; very simple and perfectly adequate for single-handed sailing. They can be easily brought forward and bungeed to the mast but I seldom do this, I find just slacking them somewhat once the sail is up is sufficient. With the Battcar system, the main just falls effortlessly onto the boom in about 2 seconds when I release the halyard, and the lazyjacks keep it out of my way until I'm ready to deal with it. I really don't get the point of the stackpacks, but that's just me.

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.

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I have lazy jacks retractable to the mast while racing. Its a four legged system and i attached them to the bottom of the boom, so no need for cut outs in the main cover. The stackpack is great for cruising, but if you race, you want to clearly see the foot of the main. Also, its too damn ugly.

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.

If you use dyneema jacks as a replacement for a topping lift, make sure your spreaders and attached blocks can handle the anticipated static and dynamic loads, including MOB hoists using the boom, etc.

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Never attach load-bearing lazyjacks to the spreader (especially midspan). You can get away with mounting to the root if your setup is light, but for the cost of 2x padeyes into the mast tube you'll have a bomber system.

 

HW

 

 

Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.


If you use dyneema jacks as a replacement for a topping lift, make sure your spreaders and attached blocks can handle the anticipated static and dynamic loads, including MOB hoists using the boom, etc.

 

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.

 

that's an interesting idea, to use the lazy jacks as the topping lift... why didn't i think of that? Unfortunately i'm not sure i could integrate that idea with a stack-pack... oh well. Maybe if i only run the aft-most lazy jack component through the stack pack to the boom and the rest of the lazy jacks just run through the pack as it is now?

 

As for stackpacks, they are fine for singlehanding or doublehanding but in no ways for racing.

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I have both dyneema lazy jacks and a topping lift (and a solid vang, long story). It's infinitely less hassle to manage with the functions separate. If you're going to have a topping lift, go with Alex W's preferred method of using 1/8" dyneema. It's plenty strong with minimal drag and even a heavy boom can be managed without thrashing your hands.

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.

that's an interesting idea, to use the lazy jacks as the topping lift... why didn't i think of that? Unfortunately i'm not sure i could integrate that idea with a stack-pack... oh well. Maybe if i only run the aft-most lazy jack component through the stack pack to the boom and the rest of the lazy jacks just run through the pack as it is now?

 

As for stackpacks, they are fine for singlehanding or doublehanding but in no ways for racing.

Mustang there is now a thing now called SH racing ...no IMOCA 60's do the 30K nm donut without a simple stack i.e. without all the zipper shit. All dynema jacks go through the stack to the boom. The other advantage of a simple two sided stack is the only creatures you attract are these.

post-108919-0-59031000-1486517825_thumb.jpg

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing. With dynema and appropriate hardware they can also be used in place of a topping lift or mechanical vang to keep the boom up. As for stack packs a simple two sided one can also save a lot of post reef lashing drama with loose footed mains but not a must have. As for the fully blown stack packs with all their zipper bells and whistles ...Well they end up being a windage nightmare on the go and when on the hook when it gets seriously fresh. Much prefer lazy jacks forward and traditional cover when at rest... less shit to maintain, no fuckin bird and spider nests and keeps the main in better flaked condition, looks better too plus a lot cheaper.

that's an interesting idea, to use the lazy jacks as the topping lift... why didn't i think of that? Unfortunately i'm not sure i could integrate that idea with a stack-pack... oh well. Maybe if i only run the aft-most lazy jack component through the stack pack to the boom and the rest of the lazy jacks just run through the pack as it is now?

 

As for stackpacks, they are fine for singlehanding or doublehanding but in no ways for racing.

Mustang there is now a thing now called SH racing ...no IMOCA 60's do the 30K nm donut without a simple stack i.e. without all the zipper shit. All dynema jacks go through the stack to the boom. The other advantage of a simple two sided stack is the only creatures you attract are these.

 

exceptions to every rule.

 

Except her.

 

She's just exceptional.

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Lazy jacks are a must offshore particularly short-handed when reefing.

 

Must for a boat like Hanse 370 with 40 m2 main sail and probably single line reef? Why? I have reefed quite a few times that size main sail without lazy jacks and can't see what good they would do. Maybe with 3rd reef it helps to keep the reefed sail in place? I don't even have the 3rd reef.

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I had similar dilemma when i refitted my boat. Decided that no way was I going to have a nice new racing main and that stackpak flapping there with the lazy jacks all around as well, so I ditched them. I can stack my fully battened main by myself, but it does take a few extra minutes, and with crew if course it is no issue, 15' boom and 50' hoist. Yes, a stack pack would be much simpler, but I am too much of a purist. Still have the brand new stackpak I had made sitting in the basement in fact.

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I don't understand why people use stack-packs. First off, there is a myth I learned about folding sails recently from a local (former) sailmaker and racer. Don't use the memory fold, meaning make sure you fold at new crease as often as possible to prolong the life of the sail. Second, you're stuck with canvas at the foot of your sail. Lazy jacks made of 3/16" amsteel (without hardware against the mainsail) are really good to the fabric and you won't even notice they are there. Makes life so much easier, and personally I think they are mandatory for those who don't have more than a couple of people as crew/captain. Also, the cost for lazy jacks is damn near nothing compared to a custom stack pack.

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My stack pack (and all others I've seen) incorporates lazy jacks to guide the sail in, so it's not either/or. It also forces a pretty loose and random fold since the sail drops in however it wants and isn't tightly compressed by the cover. If you drop the lazy jacks (which hold the sides of the stack pack up), the canvas and jacks can be tucked away under sail. For coastal or inland cruising, a stack pack is a tremendous convenience particularly if your boom is large, high, and/or extends over a dodger, all of which make it difficult to put a traditional cover on.

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I will have a new racing main in the spring for my Hanse 370 which I will use for both cruising and racing (weekly buoys and distance). In the past I have had a stack pack type mainsail handling system. I need to decide what type of main sail handling system I'll use for this new main. Either (1) a stack pack type system that I can roll up against the boom when racing with integral lazy jacks or (2) lazy jacks that I can take forward to the mast while racing or leave up while cruising with a standard sail cover with cut-outs for the lazy jacks. Your thoughts?

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Right now my thought is that I will install lazy jacks (that I can retract when I race) with a standard sail cover with cut outs for the lazy jacks (so I don't need to always retract the lazy jacks). One of the marine hardware companies makes a "clip" that slides in the groove on the underside of the boom to run the lazy jack lines. Anyone know which manufacturer and which part?

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I will have a new racing main in the spring for my Hanse 370 which I will use for both cruising and racing (weekly buoys and distance). In the past I have had a stack pack type mainsail handling system. I need to decide what type of main sail handling system I'll use for this new main. Either (1) a stack pack type system that I can roll up against the boom when racing with integral lazy jacks or (2) lazy jacks that I can take forward to the mast while racing or leave up while cruising with a standard sail cover with cut-outs for the lazy jacks. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Right now my thought is that I will install lazy jacks (that I can retract when I race) with a standard sail cover with cut outs for the lazy jacks (so I don't need to always retract the lazy jacks). One of the marine hardware companies makes a "clip" that slides in the groove on the underside of the boom to run the lazy jack lines. Anyone know which manufacturer and which part?

Cuts in sail covers are expensive and subject to wear and damage as the lazy jacks don't end up in the exact same place. After 15 years with lazy jacks and replacing 3 sail covers, I went with a stack pack. FB main with 46' P and 16'E. significant roach. Really comes down to access to the sail for flaking it. In my case, a large Dodger and high boom made it difficult to access the last 4' of the boom. Added the stack pack in early September but like it so far. Yeah, it's not the prettiest thing underway but it works.

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After four years of ownership and coping very well without a stack pack I fitted one to my last boat, I wouldn't have bought one but I was given it for free.

 

It did make things easier to pack away at the end of the day, but it was more trouble than it was worth.

If you left it hanging then you had to leave plenty of slack in the lazy jacks or they'd be bar tight when closed hauled, but this mean't they were hanging around looking rubbish most of the time.
Rolling it up onto the boom was possible, but that kind of defeats the object of saving time by using thing, also when the thing was down the lazy jacks need adjusting if you for example adjust the height of the boom.

 

New boat doesn't have one and I won't be bothering.

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Doesn't sound like it was properly designed. A small downward facing horn cleat or similar near the gooseneck can act as a turning fairlead. Loosen the jacks, hook them under the cleat, and re-tighten. Easy-peasy and the tension on the jacks will be nearly independent of the angle of the boom in the horizontal and vertical planes.

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Use lazy jacks. Have line with Brummell hooks under boom where jacks attach. When club/shorthand racing can detach and move jacks forward to mast or remove entirely when fully crewed. Incidentally boat is J44.

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I sail regularly on a boat that has a stack pack. While I will agree it is convenient, the canvas flapping under sail drives me crazy.

 

On my J/35 I single hand a lot and have high tech line I scored for free and made my own lazy jacks. I run them forward and only use them to drop the sail. Works like a charm. I'd never go with a stack pack.

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I was on a 2017 54 foot sailboat over the weekend with lazy jacks and a generic "stacked pack" type mainsail cover. Bizarrely, the zipper is set such that you have to climb out to the end of the boom to zip it. Not only is the boom too high to reach from the cockpit, the large Bimini makes it impossible to reach. I don't understand why the zipper does not begin near the mast where one can climb up on folding steps. It would be relatively easy then to rig a long line to the zipper which one could pull from the deck along the length of the boom from the mast to the outhaul.

From what I can see the only way to make this work is to crawl along the boom to the outhaul and zip while crawling backwards along the boom. in any kind of sea state the dangers are obvious and significant.

Is there some logical reason why one would set it up in this way?

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Nope. Mine has an endless loop that anchors at the zipper toggle and runs through small blocks at both ends of the boom, one on the mast and one attached to the topping lift, both about 12" up from the zipper. Anywhere you can reach the loop you can zip in either direction. 

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Very cool. Thanks for the photos. I sent them to my friend with the new boat. Probably he'll rig something similar.

 

Thanks again.

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My Express 37 has a lazy jack bag like the IMOCAs do, no PVC stiffeners, and two line slab reefing, no ties. I can reef and shake my carbon main while kneeling at the companionway in the dark, water flying, in a minute or 2. Sail just lands in the bag,nice & tidy. I never need to even stand up. I don't notice any noise, or flapping. It works perfect for me, as I sail singlehanded offshore all the time, but not buoy racing. Worked flawlessly on the 2016 SHTP and SH back to Dana Point.

I sewed it myself using Textilene/Phiffertex fabric and it has velcro straps that wrap around the boom, no hardware. After 4 years, the old  one had frayed straps, so I made another.

The sail cover can be a pain, but so what, I wouldn't have a boat without it. It's going to make the round trip to Hawaii and back again in 2018. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 7:55 PM, joe.barry said:

My Express 37 has a lazy jack bag like the IMOCAs do, no PVC stiffeners, and two line slab reefing, no ties. I can reef and shake my carbon main while kneeling at the companionway in the dark, water flying, in a minute or 2. Sail just lands in the bag,nice & tidy. I never need to even stand up. I don't notice any noise, or flapping. It works perfect for me, as I sail singlehanded offshore all the time, but not buoy racing. Worked flawlessly on the 2016 SHTP and SH back to Dana Point.

I sewed it myself using Textilene/Phiffertex fabric and it has velcro straps that wrap around the boom, no hardware. After 4 years, the old  one had frayed straps, so I made another.

The sail cover can be a pain, but so what, I wouldn't have a boat without it. It's going to make the round trip to Hawaii and back again in 2018. 

Can we see some pics?  Thanks.

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We have retractable lazy jacks, There are two advantages to a retractable system 1. The lazy jacks are out of the way and not rubbing against the sail when sailing, and 2. They are out of the way when you want to raise the main, making it much easier to do.  If the lazy jacks are retractable, then as others have pointed out, you can use a normal main sail cover, no need for cut outs.  This is less expensive and easier to use.  Also, if they are retractable for racing, then they are retractable when just sailing.  We have ours retracted until such time as we are going to drop the main (we have a Strong Track system, so the main drops like a shot).  After the main is down, cleaned up and sail tied, we retract the lazy jacks and put on the main sail cover.  Really very easy.  Our main is 49 feet on the luff and 16 feet on the boom. 

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There is an alternative version of  lazybag/stack pack, which looks quite nice.

It has two zippers the length of the boom. just above the battens holding the lower part of the bag.  

while sailing the top piece is detached, but once the main is dropped between the lazy jacks into the bottom part, the top part i zipped on.

Nothing flapping while sailing, but still almost as simple to handle as a stack pack. 

I think it is invented by Lundh Sails Gothenburg Sweden.

 

 

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I have a stackpack on my cat and find it incredibly efficient when dropping the large roached main.  my pack has full length battens on each side (canvas pocket) with d shackles through everything.  The jacks run through the d-rings  and its a continuous line on each side through 4 points on the stackpack.

I lower these while the main is up and raise prior to dropping the main.  Since mine has a line for each side, I can drop the leeward side prior to hoisting the main so my battens do not get stuck in the lazyjacks on the way up.  Works great.

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