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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Doug Lord

Trimaran Foiling Systems

Recommended Posts

  On 2/18/2017 at 8:07 PM, Doug Lord said:

There are a number of new trimaran foilers announced using a variety of foil systems:

 

1) Cirrus: uses slightly Uptip ama foils + rudder t foils, http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=179995

-

2) TF-10: uses very deep surface piercing foils similar in design to A Class Z foils and Nacra 17 foils, http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=180395

-

3) Super Foiler: uses Uptip ama foils with rudder T-foils, http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/new-trimaran-foilers-55834.html

-

4) Exocet: uses Uptip ama foils with rudder T foils. Way behind schedule but probably still under development.

-

5) Banque Populaire and Spindrift: will use Uptip ama foils with rudder T-foils ready between now and 2019,

-

6) Maserati(converted MOD 70): uses 3 point foil system(similar to Fire Arrow, see below) with adjustable AOI main foil and ama "L" foils inserted at an angle so that when immersed they automatically control ama altitude by working like an Uptip foil includes dual rudder T-foil on each ama. Tmeporaily configured to only fly on starboard tack due to damage to the stb ama foil.

-

7) Fire Arrow (WOLF-full size version under development- 15.5'LOA X 18' Beam) : unique 3 point foil system with wand controlled, retractable main foil and retractable Uptip ama foil. System is specifically designed to allow an oversquare platform to fly in light air with takeoff in 5 knot wind. The basic foil system has been tested on the Fire Arrow Test Model and on the 70' Maserati.

Design, Build and Development thread for the Fire Arrow Test Model and the full size WOLF-daughter of fire arrow:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058-167.html

-

8) F101- bi-foiler foil arrangement-- http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/new-trimaran-foilers-55834.html

post-30-0-85064700-1487466159_thumb.png

post-30-0-94362600-1487466311_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-87697000-1487466399_thumb.png

All the foiling trimarans(not foil assist) under development, as best I can tell ^

=================================================

WOLF concept model of 15' LOA X 18' Beam(folding) singlehanded foiler tri w/217 sq.ft. upwind SA,367 sq.ft. downwind ,target weight 275lb: 

More: https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-171

WOLF concept model FINAL AMA height 003.JPG

WOLF concept model  6-1-17 001.JPG

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Another SuperFoiler video:

 

 

 

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Is Doug Lord trying for a record of most posts talking to himself since nobody else will talk to him?  I see they finally chased him out of the America's Cup discussion after disproving his ideas so badly. 

What is Wolf?  Is that another toy he built? 

 

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WOLF is a new 15' trimaran design being done now with the progress posted on boatdesign. It is based on the Fire Arrow Foil System, a revolutionary advance in trimaran foiler design. The basics of the System are also used on Maserati(foil system design by Guillaume Verdier) with over 6000 miles on her daggerboard foil. She is about to race the Transpac with her complete foil system for the first time in any race.

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-171

Here is a comparison of the WOLF design targets with the Astus 16:

==============================================================

WOLF- design specs compared with the 16' ASTUS trimaran:
LOA-
 WOLF 15.46'----Astus 16'
--ama LOA-WOLF(two stage ama) 11.5'----Astus 14'
-----
Beam-
 WOLF 18.75'----Astus 12'
---Wolf folds to a trailerable beam of 8'.
---Astus uses telescoping beams for a trailerable beam of 8.2'.
-----
Sail Area-
--upwind- 
WOLF 217sq.ft----Astus 160sq.ft.
--downwind- WOLF 367sq.ft----Astus(sport) 36o sq.ft.
-----
Weight-
WOLF target-275lb*---Astus 462lb
* mostly carbon
-----
Ama buoyancy-
WOLF(two stage ama) 252lb----Astus 1130lb
-----
Mast length-
 WOLF 25'----Astus 26'
-----
Comments-

Astus appears to be designed to be sailed by two people-WOLF is a singlehander that can take a second person.
WOLF will be a full flying foiler with takeoff in a 5mph wind(target). WOLF, singlehanded, has an exceptionally large righting moment( 5402.5ft.lb.+ 1500ft.lb. from mainfoil downforce) compared with the Astus RM of about 5160ftlb with two people on board(main hull apparently does not fly before ama buries).
Astus 16: (picture from the Astus website-no other credit given)-

http://www.astusboats.com/astus-16-5-copie.html

Astus 16' trimaran.jpg

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There is no indication of any 15 foot anything being build.  Just more silly blabbering and toy making.  How old are you?  Haven't you learned to tell the truth yet?

I do see that you have a really good record on that site of endless talking to just yourself. 

Did you ever read Don Quixote?

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7 hours ago, LMI said:

There is no indication of any 15 foot anything being build.  Just more silly blabbering and toy making.  How old are you?  Haven't you learned to tell the truth yet?

I do see that you have a really good record on that site of endless talking to just yourself. 

Did you ever read Don Quixote?

Nailed it.

Did you also notice how the Fir turd was a 3 foot model of 19 or 21 foot fantasy. Now we have a 3 foot model of a 15 foot fantasy called Wolf - scary becuase it is true.

Soon we will reach a natural progression where the 3 foot model will be of a 3 foot model...... Able to take off in 0.25 knots of wind - as you throw it in the bin.

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17 minutes ago, Boink said:

Nailed it.

Did you also notice how the Fir turd was a 3 foot model of 19 or 21 foot fantasy. Now we have a 3 foot model of a 15 foot fantasy called Wolf - scary becuase it is true.

Soon we will reach a natural progression where the 3 foot model will be of a 3 foot model...... Able to take off in 0.25 knots of wind - as you throw it in the bin.

If any of you have the graphic skills to turn Don Quixote's shadow into a foiling trimaran outline, let me know.  It would make a great response to Doug's posts!

 

effdd3263752480f4b3d7c0c9f888d11.jpg

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Trimaran Foils- M&M:

These guys have designed two new trimarans with distinctly different lifting foils-

1-TF10-- main foils are very deep "Z" foils probably intended to keep the boat fairly easy to sail.Question: will the main hull stay clear of the water?

http://dnaperformancesailing.com/our-boats/dna-tf10-foiling-trimaran/

 

2-SuperFoiler- designed with UptiP ama foils on a boat that is an extraordinarily fast foiler. Definitely not "easy" to sail with each UptiP foil having to be retracted/deployed with each tack or gybe. The crew is still learning the boat so no videos yet of maneuvering on foils.

https://www.facebook.com/SuperFoiler/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_nrbAAGHb1O9MZKFsr7W_Q

 

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Trimaran Foils: Fire Arrow Foil System-Fire Arrow Test Model, 15' WOLF, Maserati

 

Fire Arrow Foil System-conceived and designed by Doug Lord. Maserati Foil System-basically identical to the Fire Arrow Foil System but designed by Guillaume Verdier.

For the record the Fire Arrow Foil System was used first on the Test Model and then on Maserati and next on WOLF and can allow these features-not found together on any other trimaran anywhere at any time(so far) :

1) actively controlled main foil-dual wand control on Fire Arrow/WOLF. Maserati controls the AOI of their mainfoil manually. Advantage is main hull altitude control and controlled angle of heel (about 10 degrees on the Fire Arrow/WOLF)as well as ride angle control of the lee uptip ama foil. A big advantage of the Fire Arrow Foil System is that roll attitude is controllable on both boats and can be configured for level flying or flying at an angle of heel by simply adjusting the flying altitude of the main hull.
-
2) UptiP ama foils. Maserati uses(Transpac on) two "L" foils that work like UptiP foils . Advantage is automatic ama altitude control with no moving parts. The Fire Arrow Test Model was the first trimaran anywhere to use UptiP ama foils. These foils allow automatic altitude control of the ama with no moving parts. The Fire Arrow Foil System design allows the UptiP foils on the Test Model and Wolf to be sailed without having to retract/deploy the UptiP foils with each tack or gybe-the only foiler system anywhere that uses UptiP foils in this way.
-
3) Rudder T-foil(s). The Fire Arrow Test Model and the new WOLF use a single rudder T-foil whereas Maserati uses two.
-
4) Dual altitude control systems on Fire Arrow/WOLF and Maserati. The ama foils and main foil use two different types of altitude control simultaneously.
-
5) The Fire Arrow Foil System can allow a trimaran to develop downforce on the main foil which increases RM and can allow automatic gust response. It can also allow the WOLF ,15.5' version of the Fire Arrow to be sailed singlehanded in up to around 20 knots of wind with no reef.
-
6) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows an oversquare trimaran platform to take off in very light air.
-
7) The Fire Arrow Foil System has increased pitch control authority compared to a "normal" tri.
-
8) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows the mainfoil to begin to unload right after takeoff reducing induced drag.
-
9) The Fire Arrow/WOLF has pioneered and will pioneer the concept of a Two Stage ama--the ama planing hull and the "curved piece" coupled with high dihedral crossarms that are kept high above the surface of the water.
-
10) High crossarm dihedral coupled with the two stage ama and a designed flying angle of heel of 10 degrees on Fire Arrow/WOLF eliminates the need to raise/lower the uptip ama foils with every tack and gybe as must be done with other boats using uptip foils.
-
11) The Fire Arrow oversquare platform allows the crew to sit comfortably on the side of the cockpit without having to sit out on the ama while still having more RM than any current production trimaran her length. 
-
12) The boat may be able to be configured to be 100% self-righting.
------------------------------
The differences between Fire Arrow(WOLF) and Maserati are specifically related to the size of the two boats and the mission of the boats. Both boats use a virtually identical foil configuration for entirely different purposes: The Fire Arrow(WOLF) is a small sport trimaran that maximizes light air takeoff and ease of handling for one to two people and may be able to be self-righting with no crew action required. Maserati is a fully crewed ocean racing trimaran.
The Fire Arrow Foil System is a revolutionary foil configuration for trimarans from very small to very large and is capable of being configured for different missions while retaining the unique qualities of the System. Maserati and Fire Arrow(Wolf) are the only two trimarans in the history of the world to have ever used this system-but not the last.
https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-172

 
 
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Trimaran Foils:  Flying Mantis and F101

Both these boats use a bifoiler configuration for there foils-similar to a Moth. However, the F101 uses a midship wand similar to the wand system on the Whisper Cat while the Flying Mantis uses a wand mounted off a bowsprit similar to many Moths.

These boats appear to be much more stable than a Moth while not flying but seem like they would be very similar in some respects while flying. They are both innovative foiling trimarans.

http://www.foiling101.com/

http://www.flyingmantis.uk/home/

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Trimaran Foils: Ultims--

Launch of Gitana coming up July 17(?) and the actual foil configuration has been kept secret. But all you have to know is that the foil system has been designed by Verdier utilizing what has been learned from Maserati (6000+ miles on her daggerboard lifting foil).

One thing is sure: almost every Ultim is using UptiP foils on the amas (or foils that work like UptiPs) because of the automatic altitude control........

 

 

Way to go Team USA today!!!!! Kickin ass!!

 

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On 6/24/2017 at 4:40 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

If any of you have the graphic skills to turn Don Quixote's shadow into a foiling trimaran outline, let me know.  It would make a great response to Doug's posts!

 

effdd3263752480f4b3d7c0c9f888d11.jpg

effdd3263752480f4b3d7c0c9f888d11.jpg.101ee22a5be481e0be6046745be64f62.jpg

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Good job, revel--well sorta.........

MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 009 (2).JPG

MPX Fire Arrow.jpg

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More from SuperFoiler:

 

 

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Super Foiler:       

 

 

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From the front page---TF10

 

 

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I enjoyed reading this.  A technical questions...how did you decide on the shape and length and twist on those ama foils and how do you actually construct them...doesn't look easy.

When I looked at the F101 stuff, it struck me funny that the design boat size and performance level was about the same as Corsair Pulse 600-with a lot less of a learning curve to sail it (and more payload).

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On 27/06/2017 at 11:57 AM, Revelry said:

effdd3263752480f4b3d7c0c9f888d11.jpg.101ee22a5be481e0be6046745be64f62.jpg

That image is perfectly suited for the Lord of fools, fellow Kiwi ... but could also include a number of other nutters, including myself?

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2 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

That image is perfectly suited for the Lord of fools, fellow Kiwi ... but could also include a number of other nutters, including myself?

I'm fairly certain it takes even a small degree of craziness to be any kind of foil hobbyist... !

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Flying Mantis---flying!     See post 110 for more...

 

 

Flying Mantis--flying.jpg

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On 6/24/2017 at 0:34 PM, Doug Lord said:

Trimaran Foils: Fire Arrow Foil System-Fire Arrow Test Model, 15' WOLF, Maserati

 

Fire Arrow Foil System-conceived and designed by Doug Lord. Maserati Foil System-basically identical to the Fire Arrow Foil System but designed by Guillaume Verdier.

For the record the Fire Arrow Foil System was used first on the Test Model and then on Maserati and next on WOLF and can allow these features-not found together on any other trimaran anywhere at any time(so far) :

1) actively controlled main foil-dual wand control on Fire Arrow/WOLF. Maserati controls the AOI of their mainfoil manually. Advantage is main hull altitude control and controlled angle of heel (about 10 degrees on the Fire Arrow/WOLF)as well as ride angle control of the lee uptip ama foil. A big advantage of the Fire Arrow Foil System is that roll attitude is controllable on both boats and can be configured for level flying or flying at an angle of heel by simply adjusting the flying altitude of the main hull.
-
2) UptiP ama foils. Maserati uses(Transpac on) two "L" foils that work like UptiP foils . Advantage is automatic ama altitude control with no moving parts. The Fire Arrow Test Model was the first trimaran anywhere to use UptiP ama foils. These foils allow automatic altitude control of the ama with no moving parts. The Fire Arrow Foil System design allows the UptiP foils on the Test Model and Wolf to be sailed without having to retract/deploy the UptiP foils with each tack or gybe-the only foiler system anywhere that uses UptiP foils in this way.
-
3) Rudder T-foil(s). The Fire Arrow Test Model and the new WOLF use a single rudder T-foil whereas Maserati uses two.
-
4) Dual altitude control systems on Fire Arrow/WOLF and Maserati. The ama foils and main foil use two different types of altitude control simultaneously.
-
5) The Fire Arrow Foil System can allow a trimaran to develop downforce on the main foil which increases RM and can allow automatic gust response. It can also allow the WOLF ,15.5' version of the Fire Arrow to be sailed singlehanded in up to around 20 knots of wind with no reef.
-
6) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows an oversquare trimaran platform to take off in very light air.
-
7) The Fire Arrow Foil System has increased pitch control authority compared to a "normal" tri.
-
8) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows the mainfoil to begin to unload right after takeoff reducing induced drag.
-
9) The Fire Arrow/WOLF has pioneered and will pioneer the concept of a Two Stage ama--the ama planing hull and the "curved piece" coupled with high dihedral crossarms that are kept high above the surface of the water.
-
10) High crossarm dihedral coupled with the two stage ama and a designed flying angle of heel of 10 degrees on Fire Arrow/WOLF eliminates the need to raise/lower the uptip ama foils with every tack and gybe as must be done with other boats using uptip foils.
-
11) The Fire Arrow oversquare platform allows the crew to sit comfortably on the side of the cockpit without having to sit out on the ama while still having more RM than any current production trimaran her length. 
-
12) The boat may be able to be configured to be 100% self-righting.
------------------------------
The differences between Fire Arrow(WOLF) and Maserati are specifically related to the size of the two boats and the mission of the boats. Both boats use a virtually identical foil configuration for entirely different purposes: The Fire Arrow(WOLF) is a small sport trimaran that maximizes light air takeoff and ease of handling for one to two people and may be able to be self-righting with no crew action required. Maserati is a fully crewed ocean racing trimaran.
The Fire Arrow Foil System is a revolutionary foil configuration for trimarans from very small to very large and is capable of being configured for different missions while retaining the unique qualities of the System. Maserati and Fire Arrow(Wolf) are the only two trimarans in the history of the world to have ever used this system-but not the last.
https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-the-test-model.36058/page-172

 
 

Insert "Gitana 17" where you see Maserati above. Gitana 17 was designed by Guillaume Verdier from scratch to use a foiling system basically identical to the Fire Arrow Foil System. While Maserati uses angled "L" foils that work like UptiP foils when immersed, Gitana uses UptiP foils based on the main foils of the TNZ AC 72 -exactly the same idea behind the UptiP ama foils on the Fire Arrow-the first trimaran of any size to use these foils. The reason to use this type of foil on a trimaran is that it the foil can be designed for virtually automatic altitude control without regard to speed and requiring little to no adjustment when flying.

-------------

The first UptiP foil to be used on a trimaran ama in the history of mankind:

MPX ama + ama = cat --foil comparison 011.JPG

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Super Foiler has visitors:

 

 

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On 8/23/2017 at 0:42 AM, Doug Lord said:

 

The first UptiP foil to be used on a trimaran ama in the history of mankind:

MPX ama + ama = cat --foil comparison 011.JPG

2 problems. First, it might be the first in the history of mankind, but the inhabitants of Proxima Centauri b are laughing at you because they did it centuries ago and have moved on, as has most of mankind. The other problem is that this forum is about sailing and you post a picture of a lawn ornament.

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Gitana 17-the most technologically advanced trimaran in history:

picture by Yann Riou-- 1st and last(uncredited and posted by stingray in another thread-probably Riou)

ama foil pictures by Fred Monsonnec--

 

Gitana Foiling!.jpg

gitana-17-foil-babord-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg

gitana-17-vue-arric3a8re-photo-2-f-monsonnec-04-04-17 - Copy.jpg

Gitana 17-probably yann riou though uncredited from stingray -sa.jpg

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On 8/20/2017 at 12:48 PM, MultiThom said:

I enjoyed reading this.  A technical questions...how did you decide on the shape and length and twist on those ama foils and how do you actually construct them...doesn't look easy.

When I looked at the F101 stuff, it struck me funny that the design boat size and performance level was about the same as Corsair Pulse 600- and a lot less of a learning curve to sail it (and more payload).

Thom, sorry I missed this! I'm assuming you were asking me about the twisted Fire Arrow ama foils? The original foils were built with no twist using styrofoam matched "molds" that were hand shaped and then laid up with carbon. After the foil was complete I decided to add twist to it by adding a sort of flap. It worked well. On the D2(sort of a scaled down Quant 23) I built a balsa mold for the foils-one left , one right. Needed a lot of hand finishing but produced a foil where the last 6" had a +3 degree AOI when the rest of the foil was at zero. In the boat the foil is set up with +3 degrees AOI for the inboard portion of the foil and +6 degrees for the outboard portion. The idea is to get on foils quickly at which time the outboard portion of the foil comes out of the water reducing drag. 

2007-01-10 07.03.26.jpg

2007-04-05 06.59.38.jpg

D2 on stand 7-14-16 003.JPG

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Spectacular development with trimaran foiling systems with Banque Populaire adopting the foil configuration pioneered by Fire Arrow and then Maserati and Gitana 17!

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/193947-banque-populaire/

 

Jean-Baptiste Epron/Banque Populaire render:

 

Banque Populaire.png

MPX Fire Arrow.jpg

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From Dolfiman on boatdesign.net:

Translation of the comments of the project director Renaud Camus :
Rudders :
"This type of rudder is innovative on that type of boat weighting 14 tons. At high speeds, there is so much effort in the rudders. Before, it was not necessary to lift them. Now to protect the windward one from a wave or a strong swell at high speed, we have obligation to raise it. The T is important because to fly, the boat needs several points of support : foils, the central daggerboard and the rudders. The foils are like the wings on an airplane, and the rudders the tail. This type of T rudder already existed on Macif, Sodebo and Spindrift, but Gitana and Banque Populaire IX were the first boats designed with this type of rudder from the start."
Foils :
"These are the main devices of the flight, shaped like an" L ", and directly inspired by what was observed during the America's Cup. Foils are orientable in three dimensions. The objective is to have a polyvalent foil, it is quite vertical which allows to take off early enough, but, under certain conditions it can also be positioned in V, it is more stable and wiser."
Central daggerboard :
"The idea is to gain stability in flight, to facilitate the take-off of the central hull and to get it out of the water, and it is also equipped with a small mobile flap

> Some versions of the main foil on the daggerboard use a flap to control lift and to generate downforce which increases RM(dl)
Amas :
"Like for the central hull, they have fine waterlines. We tried to make weight less. They are flatter than for our previous multihulls, but are not completely flat either to avoid sudden slam in rough seas. They are also designed to have less aerodynamic drag. We have taken care of the aerodynamics at the front and at the rear of the akas. This is important because the boats are going faster and faster, so they are generating more and more apparent wind speed. "
Cockpit cap :
We also designed an harmonious cap designed from aerodynamic tests in a sailmaker. The 3 DI fabric sheets have also replaced the nets. "

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Banque Pops UptiP ama foil:

(picture from facebook and Ultim Boat's post in Timeline Photos)

Banque Populaire UptiP ama foils.jpg

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More Superfoiler video:

 

 

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Another Super Foiler Video:     

 

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Spectacular pictures of Gitana 17 followed by Fire Arrow:

picture by Benoit Stichelbaut/Gitana SA :

jq1f8h.jpg

 

picture by Dan Burke and Doug Lord:
34dhcph.jpg

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Hello , Wess and darthy--having a nice day?

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9 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

Hello , Wess and darthy--having a nice day?

Hahahahahahaha Dougy, I'm having a great day! 

 Congratulations to Doug Lord -the sailing anarchist with the absolute lowest reputation yet, a reputation virtually identical to Harvey Weinstein's reputation!

And don't worry, you earned it!

 

hattip.jpeg

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And of course there remains one foiling system that worked right out of the gate, can be tacked and jibed on the foils (with just a tad bit of experience) has no pitch problems and still holds the Class A World Record:

 

 

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Thats a great boat. Just wondering: how long does it take to assemble it? How much wind dos it take to foil?

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It takes about 10 knots of wind to get on the foils (a bit less to stay on them). Mine has the optional ama fairings which drop that number to just 8 knots.

I can assemble it, by myself, in about 35 minutes. The trailer and assembly sequence is pure genius. There are YouTube videos produced by the Kettermans showing how to rig it. They claim 15 minutes if two people are involved, although I would say the 2nd person has to be adept with some knowledge of this boat for that to happen. You can see some rigging info on it at the 4:30 mark in this original company video, plus technical information on how it works, if you're interested.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Doug Lord said:

Just wondering: how long does it take to assemble it?

AS lot less time than it has taken you to rig the "lawn ornament". Aren't we at 2 years and counting?:D

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53 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

It takes about 10 knots of wind to get on the foils (a bit less to stay on them). Mine has the optional ama fairings which drop that number to just 8 knots.

I can assemble it, by myself, in about 35 minutes. The trailer and assembly sequence is pure genius. There are YouTube videos produced by the Kettermans showing how to rig it. They claim 15 minutes if two people are involved, although I would say the 2nd person has to be adept with some knowledge of this boat for that to happen. You can see some rigging info on it at the 4:30 mark in this original company video, plus technical information on how it works, if you're interested.  

 

 

Speaking of refined trailer use, I was honored to crew on a D-Class cat a couple weekends ago. very f'ing cool. time from on trailer to road ready? about 1:15.  And I hadn't done it before. The owner has a superbly refined system. no tieing anything down, every part had a mount, trailer-assisted moving of things around so that the most I had to lift was maybe 50 pounds for just a second.  Was very cool.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:21 AM, Doug Lord said:

Super Foiler:

 

 

I'll consider it near complete when I see them do something other than reach. Eventually they have to be able tack and gybe. 

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I haven't seen them all, but I can't help feeling that even after 20+ years, the TriFoiler remains the most advanced foiler in the world. It doesn't suffer from any of the difficulties that these other "modern" foilers do. The damn thing just goes.

Note that in this video the dude has the speedo pegged at 40MPH at the 1:25 mark. And it'll go faster. Enjoy the video - it speaks volumes...

 

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On 3/10/2017 at 5:11 PM, Doug Lord said:

Sam, where did you see that they were testing with flapped ama foils?

===================================

 

For the record the Fire Arrow Foil System used first on the Test Model and then on Maserati and next on WOLF can allow these features-not found together on any other trimaran anywhere at any time(so far) :

added #10 3/10/17)

1) actively controlled main foil-dual wand control on Fire Arrow. Maserati controls the AOI of their mainfoil manually. Advantage is main hull altitude control and controlled angle of heel (about 10 degrees on the Fire Arrow)as well as ride angle control of the lee uptip ama foil. A big advantage of the Fire Arrow Foil System is that roll attitude is controllable on both boats and can be configured for level flying or flying at an angle of heel by simply adjusting the flying altitude of the main hull.

2) UptiP ama foils. Maserati has only one foil that works like an UptiP foil but will install a second at some point. Advantage is automatic ama altitude control with no moving parts. The Fire Arrow Test Model was the first trimaran anywhere to use uptip ama foils. These foils allow automatic altitude control of the ama with no moving parts.

3) Rudder T-foil(s). The Fire Arrow Test model and the new WOLF use a single rudder T-foil whereas Maserati uses two.

4) Dual altitude control systems on Fire Arrow and Maserati. The ama foils and main foil use two different types of altitude control simultaneously.

5) The Fire Arrow Foil System can allow a trimaran to develop downforce on the main foil which increases RM and can allow automatic gust response. It can also allow the WOLF ,15.5' version of the Fire Arrow to be sailed singlehanded in up to around 20 knots of wind with no reef.

6) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows an oversquare trimaran platform to take off in very light air.

-7) The Fire Arrow Foil System has increased pitch control authority compared to a "normal" tri.

8) The Fire Arrow Foil System allows the mainfoil to begin to unload right after takeoff reducing induced drag.

9) The Fire Arrow has pioneered the concept of a Two Stage ama--the ama planing hull and the "curved piece".

10) High crossarm dihedral coupled with the two stage ama on Fire Arrow/WOLF eliminates the need to raise/lower the uptip ama foils with every tack and gybe as must be done with other boats using uptip foils.

11) The Fire Arrow oversquare platform allows the crew to sit comfortably on the side of the cockpit without having to sit out on the ama while still having more RM than any current production trimaran her length.

12) The boat may be able to be configured to be 100% self-righting.

------------------------------

The differences between Fire Arrow(WOLF) and Maserati are specifically related to the size of the two boats and the mission of the boats. Both boats use a virtually identical foil configuration for entirely different purposes: The Fire Arrow(WOLF) is a small sport trimaran that maximizes light air takeoff and ease of handling for one to two people and may be able to be self-righting with no crew action required. Maserati is a fully crewed ocean racing trimaran.

The Fire Arrow Foil System is a revolutionary foil configuration for trimarans from very small to very large and is capable of being configured for different missions while retaining the unique qualities of the System. Maserati and Fire Arrow(Wolf) are the only two trimarans in the history of the world to have ever used this system-but not the last.

 

Fire Arrow Test Model-picture by Doug Lord and Dan Burke:

 

2qi5ks4.jpg

 

Question by Mr. Gabart on Macif today--answer below and in #5 above which is also true for Maserati, Gitana 17, and Banque Populaire. A point I've been making for years:

Macif /  Gabart on  DOWNFORCE:     

In François Gabart 10 nov. message :
""You have to find the balance to be able to stay in support on the central hull, but it's not so easy when you go fast. I cannot stay on the central hull all the time and I'm still not comfortable sleeping like that. It's starting to come, it will take training again. But my sleep is damaged, despite fatigue. I still managed to take a few naps."

Is it not in this case that a foil on central daggerboard, when adjusted to provide a small downforce, which can add passive safety when the singlehander is sleeping ? In case of gust of wind with a move to more heel, the inflow incidence on this foil increase instantly and can provide an extra RM which adds to the one due to the weight. And moreover in steady state condition, this foil RM component is in squared speed boat, can increase in parallel with heeling moment in squared apparent wind speed. I am right ?

Yes, you are right-see #5 above, DL

 
 
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Ashby and Outteridge on Super Foiler:

 

 

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Why would you say something like that?

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20 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

Why would you say something like that?

Because they were supposed to have the circuit running by November and so far what we have seen indicates that it is difficult to sail and we are yet to see a tack or a gybe. I hope they get it to work, but the current configuration looks problematic. 

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44 minutes ago, Rawhide said:

 

Because they were supposed to have the circuit running by November and so far what we have seen indicates that it is difficult to sail and we are yet to see a tack or a gybe. I hope they get it to work, but the current configuration looks problematic. 

I have been told that the boats are nowhere near sorted enough to race. They have improved a lot but still have totally unexplained losses of control of ride height, as seen in the recent "Rocket Man" video they released.

Is it a surprised they are having problems sorting it out? Most of the development work is being done by people who had zero experience of high performance foiling. It's not exactly the boat to learn how to foil a multihull. How can those guys know if it is their sailing or the boat? There is certainly a lot of things they are doing that are contrary to the way you would normally sail a foiling multihull. Watching the videos, there are a few things that stand out, such as the mainsheet system which is really poor and you can see limits the speed at which you can sheet. On a boat that size and weight, with such a big sail, if you are not constantly playing the sheet, you will never get decent flight.

Nathan, Goobs and Glenn are probably the best combination they could get to sort the boat out and I bet there will be a lot of progress and changes made once they get going, which is unlikely to be until the new year now. You can be sure that it is costing them big bucks to get those 3 together and that as Rawhide suggests, it is because they have reached the limit of their development capability. They have enough good sailors sign up for them not to need to buy in those 3, so there has to be a very good reason to spend the cash, say $3-5k per day.

I expect to see some pretty big changes early next year.

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Full credit to them pursuing this boat and continuing to improve it.  That boat has righting moment and weight to go very quick.  The concept seems scary to me with the 2 bows missing, and I suspect those missing bows increase the trip hazard quite a bit when the boat is not level.  Seems like a normal foiling cat would have better lived through the drop off the foils for example as the leeward bow would keep the for and aft trim more level.  

I don't understand why I keep seeing the boat sail with the cunnigham pretty loose.  Maybe that is because of what ACS is saying on the background of the sailors.  I believe the boat started out with no windows cut in the sails IIRC.  

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Super Foiler:

pix by Beau Outteridge Productions/from catsailingnews-

 

SuperFoilerEuroflexDreamTeam-from catsailingnews.jpg

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Super Foiler:

 

 

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Top effort. The video has been restricted so that either Australian viewers are blocked or YouTube's IP location logic is hosed. Either way, why block anyone from viewing it?

VideoFail.png.024ff897a3dfeb3e7d72e32bb9f132f6.png

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Super Foiler:

 

 

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Saw the boats in person a few weeks ago at Sail Sydney and while extremely impressed with overall build quality and finish 

I can't help but feel the foil wheel base seems a little on the small side.

Not a criticism just my observation. 

I;m sure much smarter  minds than mine are involved  .

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Super Foiler racing:

 

 

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