ScotDomergue

boat suggestion? light, small, blue water potential

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I'd like to find a small, production, light weight boat with single handed blue water potential. Perhaps something like a smaller Moore 24. Perhaps 20 feet long and 1000 lbs., though even smaller might be OK. Ideas and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

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Perhaps I've not been clear about what I'm looking for . . . When I say blue water potential, I'm thinking about crossing oceans, going just about anywhere.

 

I'm more cruiser than racer, though I want and appreciate light, fast boats.

 

Would you really want to cross oceans on a Seascape 18 or an Open 5.7?

 

There were boats built in the 50's and 60's that were small and capable of crossing oceans - Treka, 20', sailed around the world by Guzzwell, Sopranino designed for ocean racing (Junior Offshore Group, UK) and the Barchetta Class based on Sopranino. These were wooden. The MORC (Midget Ocean Racing Club) followed in the US. The fiberglass Yankee Dolphin 24 came out of this ancestry, but it weighs over 4000 lbs.

 

I understand that the Moore 24 was one of the first ULDB (ultra-light displacement) production boats, 2050 lbs. (1972).

 

Web Chiles is currently sailing a Moore 24 around the world.

 

Perhaps this gives a better picture of what I'd like to find:

An older (late 70's, 80's, or perhaps more recent) production boat made with reasonably modern materials (the Moore 24 was vacuum-bagged fiberglass composite - with balsa, etc.), light weight, fairly fast, and capable of minimalist world cruising.

 

I will also note that I would like to adapt my boat for sliding-seat rowing as auxiliary power . . . which would be easy enough with a boat similar to the Barchetta Class which was only slightly over 5-foot beam - though I can imagine doing this with a wider boat as well.

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Yes, thanks. I'm familiar with Trekka and with the Dolphin 24's. I've been looking at some used Dolphin's, but they are bigger than I need and much heavier than I'd like. Something like Trekka or the Bruchetta Class in more modern materials (lighter and more durable, less potential for problems) could be ideal.

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Yes, building a boat could make sense, but I don't have the facilities or skills for what I'd want (probably carbon & kevlar, infusion, perhaps foam core. And I haven't seen a design that would make sense. And I suspect it could be VERY expensive. I designed and built the Marsh Duck (18-foot sailing/rowing/cruising canoe) and had a great time cruising the Salish Sea and beyond. She was stitch-and-glue construction which might be possible, but isn't ideal. I'd rather find a proven design, already built . . .

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The Moore 24, less than half the weight of the Dolphin 24 seems a possibility, but I'd rather find something smaller and lighter, perhaps 20 feet and under 1000 lbs.

 

And you want to cross oceans in that?

 

Under 20 feet? You are ambitious.

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Re mini transat: at over 2000 lbs, doesn't really appeal.

Why not? What do you want to gain by going lighter? You won't find anything in that size range faster than a Mini.

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How about a Nordica 20. A double end tough cork designed for the North Sea. Full keel, sails ok in light wind and can handle a good blow. a few have solo'd circumnavigated.

 

While the Nordica 20 was built from two halves and joined during construction in a . It’s hard to see much of this when they’re in the water. The Nordica 20 specs are: L.O.A. is 19’ 6” - LWL is 16’ 6” - Beam is 7’ 8” - Draft (full keel) is 3’ 3” - Displacement is 2520 lbs. - Ballast is 1026 lbs. - Mast height above W/L is 30’ 0” and was offered with a 4-10 hp diesel engine option. Sleeps 4 - Great storage.

 

 

20100620ReadyForLaunchIMG_9372.JPG

 

IMGP1953.JPG

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Re mini transat: at over 2000 lbs, doesn't really appeal.

Why not? What do you want to gain by going lighter? You won't find anything in that size range faster than a Mini.

Exactly.... Which is why I suggested it..... And it has a proven pedigree of many Atlantic crossings. How much "stuff" do you need to carry to cross an ocean??? If you chose a really light boat, you would overload it which isn't fast or safe........

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Maybe a little crazy (still, after all these years). Definitely minimalist. I don't really think of myself as "ambitious". And certainly many have crossed oceans in boats under 20 feet!

And many have never been seen again. Takes a shit load of preparation, seamanship and skill and even more luck.

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I don't think 'ocean crossing' and 'under 1000#' are exactly compatable. There is def no production boat that meets such requirements, as the customer base is extremely small, and 99% of them are dreamers with no money,

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Unless you want to figure in the guiness book of record, I am not sure why you would want to go so light. I like small and light boats but below a certain threshold it isn't worth it.

 

For small and light, that would be my choice if I don't need to go superfast :

 

341%202013%2009%20Lo%20Muscadet.jpg

 

It weights 2400lbs, but that is light enough to be super easy to sail and affordable to maintain. Many have crossed the atlantic, one is currently sailing around the world.

 

On the other hand, if you want something small and fast, it is hard to beat an old mini.

 

If you want to do "proper bluewater", this one went round on the Vendée Globe course :

 

7_6a82d42334.png

 

If you want to do silly light, the bar is high, Uffa fox crossed the channel on an international canoe fitted with a hiking plank!

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This new design, possibly to be marketed as a Wally Super Nano:

 

Admittedly its strength is as a downwind flyer. The 360 degree view from the pilothouse is spectacular.

post-31152-0-02939600-1487868517_thumb.jpg

post-31152-0-37510500-1487868532_thumb.jpeg

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Can we hook multiple ones together and make it bigger boat?

For sure. The way to do it is to run 50 yards of floating poly between each of four to six of the Super Nanos. Wave action pulls the whole chain along nicely and the Nanos at the top of a wave are still in the clear air and powered up.

 

For windward work, catch a ship. The Nanos are built for that. 20 knots is not unheard of.

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CLC pocketship

 

Clcboats.com

ahh.. but the faering is designed to be rowed.

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Again I find this design really nice. Crash box, unsinkable and it has a tiller inside which allows you to steer from inside the bubbles. 1400pounds:

 

IMG_2741.jpg

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Santana 20, 1350 lbs.open transom beachball. Seems like if you roll it over, it should roll right back up. Beef up rig or carry some really good jury rigging options. Decent interior volume for 20 ft.

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Santana 20, 1350 lbs.open transom beachball. Seems like if you roll it over, it should roll right back up. Beef up rig or carry some really good jury rigging options. Decent interior volume for 20 ft.

The OP is describing a Santana 20 to a T. Especially since he does not mention budget. Make sure to address the hatches, they are not adequate for offshore. Most of them have the closed transom which may be better for globe trotting. They do heave-to really well. Sticks like glue.

 

Still sounds like a death wish.

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Thanks for so many good suggestions.

 

Regarding small and light:

- I'm a minimalist. My Marsh Duck, an 18-foot sailing/rowing/cruising canoe weighed 185 lbs. including all sailing and rowing gear and a 20 watt solar system for keeping electronics charged. I spent 3 months cruising the Salish Sea and beyond (NW inland waters), sleeping aboard all but 3 nights and loved it. I also happily travel thousands of miles and months at a time on my bicycle, self-contained, with about 25 lbs total gear. So, I don't need much stuff.

- I don't believe that seaworhiness is dependent on size . . . comfort perhaps, but seaworthiness no.

 

I'm interested to find both the Santana 20 and Cal 20 suggested. Further thoughts and critiques of these 2 for my purposes would be appreciated.

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For small and light, that would be my choice if I don't need to go superfast :

 

341%202013%2009%20Lo%20Muscadet.jpg

 

It weights 2400lbs, but that is light enough to be super easy to sail and affordable to maintain. Many have crossed the atlantic, one is currently sailing around the world.

 

 

 

WHAT IS THIS BOAT?

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Santana 20, 1350 lbs.open transom beachball. Seems like if you roll it over, it should roll right back up. Beef up rig or carry some really good jury rigging options. Decent interior volume for 20 ft.

Open transom? Not originally.

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For small and light, that would be my choice if I don't need to go superfast :

 

341%202013%2009%20Lo%20Muscadet.jpg

 

It weights 2400lbs, but that is light enough to be super easy to sail and affordable to maintain. Many have crossed the atlantic, one is currently sailing around the world.

 

 

 

WHAT IS THIS BOAT?

Muscadet. French madness, like a lot of these small boats

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For small and light, that would be my choice if I don't need to go superfast :

 

341%202013%2009%20Lo%20Muscadet.jpg

 

It weights 2400lbs, but that is light enough to be super easy to sail and affordable to maintain. Many have crossed the atlantic, one is currently sailing around the world.

 

 

 

WHAT IS THIS BOAT?

 

 

a muscadet.

 

ps - rantifarian beat me.

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Thanks for so many good suggestions.

 

Regarding small and light:

- I'm a minimalist. My Marsh Duck, an 18-foot sailing/rowing/cruising canoe weighed 185 lbs. including all sailing and rowing gear and a 20 watt solar system for keeping electronics charged. I spent 3 months cruising the Salish Sea and beyond (NW inland waters), sleeping aboard all but 3 nights and loved it. I also happily travel thousands of miles and months at a time on my bicycle, self-contained, with about 25 lbs total gear. So, I don't need much stuff.

- I don't believe that seaworhiness is dependent on size . . . comfort perhaps, but seaworthiness no.

 

I'm interested to find both the Santana 20 and Cal 20 suggested. Further thoughts and critiques of these 2 for my purposes would be appreciated.

Neither boat is intended for "offshore". By the time you outfitted a boat like that for anything resembling one designed for offshore, you would be better off having spent the money on a bigger boat that may include a lot of gear you'll need and an inboard engine. For example, self-steering?, batteries and charging? water capacity? bilge pumps manual and electric? life raft? VHF and antenna? on and on. At most I would consider port hopping down the west coast in a S20 with a spare autopilot and plenty of safety gear and a close eye on weather. Three days at a time on that thing would be way more than enough. Three hours is the designed time aboard.

 

Put your all-in budget together and see what you can find up to and including 30 ft. Cook a meal. Stand up straight once in a while. Sleep on a space really meant for sleeping. Read a magazine. And, good luck! Your Salish Sea trip sounded good.

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Reminds me of a video from the S/V Delos kids a while back. Sailing in (The Philippines?) they ran across two scrawny wild-eyed French guys in a small (20ish) day-sailer, begging fuel for their outboard. Had they sailed from a nearby resort? No... they'd sailed there from France. :blink:

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Santana 20, 1350 lbs.open transom beachball. Seems like if you roll it over, it should roll right back up. Beef up rig or carry some really good jury rigging options. Decent interior volume for 20 ft.

 

The OP is describing a Santana 20 to a T. Especially since he does not mention budget. Make sure to address the hatches, they are not adequate for offshore. Most of them have the closed transom which may be better for globe trotting. They do heave-to really well. Sticks like glue.

 

Still sounds like a death wish.

I was going to suggest an S20 also. I have one and use oars for auxillary power - it rows quite nicely. I have coastal cruised in mine and the "cabin" is mighty small and uncomfortable.

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11foot is the smallest boat to go round. The great Serge Testa's record is 30years old in a couple of months. Lots of people have tried in 6-7-8-9 foot tubs but found you just can't steer. Webb's Moore 24 makes Archoc Australia look like a swan 60.

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For small and light, that would be my choice if I don't need to go superfast :

 

341%202013%2009%20Lo%20Muscadet.jpg

 

It weights 2400lbs, but that is light enough to be super easy to sail and affordable to maintain. Many have crossed the atlantic, one is currently sailing around the world.

 

 

 

WHAT IS THIS BOAT?

 

As said above a muscadet.

 

From the links given above, in Brittany there is a mistral 6.50 on sale for 8000€. It is this one : http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Histoire%20des%20Minis/533.htm

It isn't competitive anymore but would make a good small bluewater boat.

 

You just need to find somebody willing to enter this year minitransat with it and then pick it up in the Carribean.....

 

12009-05-09-DSC_0445.JPG

 

They will arrive in november-december in Martinique, may be you can convince one of the competitors to sell you his.

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Before further comment in respect to the Moore 24 (which I've sailed quite a bit) - are you 1/10 the sailor that Webb Chiles is ?

 

'cause, it's the singer, not the song.

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But he said he's a minimalist.

No gear, no comfort.

Maybe no food, no cooking.

A hand operated desalinator... maybe...

Just hard-ship...

Sounds like an end of life experience seeker perhaps...?

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The Moore 24, less than half the weight of the Dolphin 24 seems a possibility, but I'd rather find something smaller and lighter, perhaps 20 feet and under 1000 lbs.

 

Less than 24' and 1000 lbs or less and blue water...................you are joking?

 

I hope your family has good life insurance on you.

 

Wylie Wabbit

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Wayfarer 16, for the serious adrenaline junkie.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, it got me through the Gulf Islands, it got a guy from Scotland to Iceland, what more could you ask for?

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16' Ish??

 

Like I said, an Aussie owns the circumnavigation record with a mere 11'

 

OP needs to get serious and go 10'

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First 210attachicon.gifIMG_0108.JPG

 

Although it is a nice coastal cruiser able to do the occasional semi-offshore leg, I am not sure that I would call the first 210 a blue water boat.

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16' Ish??

 

Like I said, an Aussie owns the circumnavigation record with a mere 11'

 

OP needs to get serious and go 10'

 

Hard to say what the OP has in mind. What's the point of going 'small & light', what is his goal? The Minis are the fastest thing in their size range, but they're not the smallest. Anything smaller is certainly not going to be as fast, especially given compromises for seaworthiness. Does he have to fit the boat into his garage? Does he want to set a record? Horses for courses.

 

The Moore 24 is smaller than it's length suggests. The 'cabin' is less like crawling under your dining room table (Olson 30) and more like crawling underneath 3 of your dining room chairs. It's fast and relatively seaworthy (given good refit/commissioning which would be desirable for singlehanding anyway), and also IMHO a good-looking boat. The Mini has a helluva lot more horsepower, less practical as an all-round boat. Much much 'bigger' than the Moore 24 in terms of usable space, much more comfortable cockpit too.

 

i550? MX-20?

People have built tiny cabins onto all sorts of smallish keel daysailers, how about the Flying 15?

 

FB- Doug

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no matter what boat you would finally settle on... I would apply a flashlight test to the hull. If you can apply a flashlight to the outside of the hull and see the light from inside - move on to the next boat. A light fast boat with a thin hull is often a one one ticket to collecting on life insurance policy. Lots of crap in the ocean - i am not talking about containers but logs, broken spiked docks and other torpedoes which will sink a thin skin hulled boat in 60 seconds after impact.

If you do decide to take on a ocean cruise on a ultra light hull... can we all pitch in on your policy. We can apply it to Dylan's Kick starter production company. 250k could go a long way in making him a greater filmmaker. You get credit on every one of his films.

I know this is a thread drift but I would suggest a boat with class. If you are going small and going to solo it - get a boat that people want to see come to the harbor and will be welcomed by those who love traditional craft. Your cruising will significantly improve do to the people you will meet and the hospitality you can receive. Sailing from point A to B is 1/10th of your journeys. A folk boat at 26 feet is one that checks those boxes. More over it is cheap as any boat mentioned above.clas15-1544.jpg

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I've done a fair amount of bike touring.

 

I get the desire to be "minimalist."

 

However there is a crucial difference: a bike tourer stops and resupplies frequently (daily?) at grocery stores and food shops, he refills his water bottles as needed, and can seek shelter when the weather turns truly nasty. An offshore sailor is fully self sufficient and is carrying his provisions and contingencies for all circumstances.

 

So your boat will be weighed down with storm sails and gear, tools, foul weather gear, food and water as required for a slow boat to make a non-resupplied passage.

 

None of these things are consistent with the idea of "ultralight" sailing. So a boat that's truly designed to be "ultralight" will be overloaded by the time you've kitted it out for your usage.

 

Seek a light easily driven cruising boat, load it with a practical ascetic's eye, and go forth.

 

You mentioned the Moore 24; others suggested the Santana 20. I give you the middle ground: Santana 22. Small, light, stout.

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I always figure everyone has heard of and read this book, but not everyone has:

 

Pretty much the seminal work on small cruising boats.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Small-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837323

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Despite all the naysayers and "internet expert" opinions, every 2 years, there are 80 people racing singlehanded across the atlantic on 6.5m boats. Although not all of them get to the other side, the accident rate is very low. It is probably safer than riding a motorbike in a busy city.

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I always figure everyone has heard of and read this book, but not everyone has:

 

Pretty much the seminal work on small cruising boats.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Small-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837323

 

Or this

http://www.robertmanryproject.com/

 

I happen to be re-reading 'Tinkerbelle' just now. Didn't know about this web site

 

FB- Doug

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Despite all the naysayers and "internet expert" opinions, every 2 years, there are 80 people racing singlehanded across the atlantic on 6.5m boats. Although not all of them get to the other side, the accident rate is very low. It is probably safer than riding a motorbike in a busy city.

Totally.

 

Still, there's a difference between the amount of stuff you'll carry for a balls-to-the-wall point-to-point race and what you'll carry for cast-off-the-docklines world cruising.

 

That said, a mini is probably a fine choice for the OP's needs. Main thing is availability, cost, shipping, and he mentioned "production" boat.

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Thanks to all for many good and interesting ideas.

 

Yes, the mini transat's are interesting, but still seem big, heavy and complicated to me. The goal of maximum speed involves compromises that add to complication, size and weight that shouldn't be necessary for my purposes.

 

Some thoughts:

 

Small boats can be as, or more, seaworthy than larger boats. For example ocean rowing boats 20-22 feet long, self righting, regularly cross oceans, survive hurricanes, roll multiple times, and come to port none the worse - with adequately though not extremely experienced and competent crew. For many years the standard 2-person ocean rowing boat was 23'4" long and weighed 1650 lbs. fully laden!

 

Generally, the smaller the boat, the smaller the forces - it takes less power to drive her (smaller sails), human power is more viable, structures and equipment need not be as big, strong and heavy, jury-rigging, maintenance and repair are easier and less expensive.

 

One can enjoy smaller waters in smaller boats: anchorages, estuaries, rivers, etc.; gunkholing is wonderful. I see no need to forego these joys just because I want to reach new cruising grounds on my boat, wherever in the world.

 

I like being able to pull my boat up on a beach. Unfortunately it's difficult (impossible?) to combine that with self-righting. Maybe I need to let go of beaching (not previously mentioned for that reason).

 

Ocean rowing boats, relying on human power, are SLOW, and therefore need lots of supplies. I believe that equally seaworthy small sailing vessels are possible and could be much faster. Taking 1/2, 1/3, or even less time for a passage, one would need less supplies, so the boat could be smaller and lighter . . .

 

I don't know that the boat I want exists, nor whether it can be found or created at reasonable cost . . .

 

I am a very experienced small boat sailor and cruiser, but without offshore experience. I would love to find and buy a small, light boat with serious offshore capability. Ideally I would get to know the boat while cruising in my home waters, the Salish Sea (Puget Sound, Strait of Juan de Fuca, San Juan Islands, Gulf Islands, Strait of Georgia) and beyond, while preparing myself and the boat for the open ocean. Next I would probably sail south down the Pacific coast, perhaps wintering in the Gulf of California before continuing - to the South Pacific and on to Asia or to the Caribbean and on to Europe?

 

I will be 70 in November. I'm healthy and in good shape, though currently recovering from hip replacement surgery. If I can find the right boat, I can begin the above process this summer. To create the boat I want, probably working with professional designers and high-tech boat builders, would take at least a year longer, and MUCH greater expense.

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@ScotDomergue

From your description, I think that the aviateur 5.70 (see photo #35) is quite close to your needs.





You won't pull it up a beach though but you will be able to dry it. At 1380lbs it is still above your target weight. It's not cheap I've heard €40k new fully equipped for blue water sailing and you would need to ship it. You can buy a kit which might be better. I don't know if there is something equivalent in the USA

 

Trouble with keelboats is that you need to lug around lead! To be really lightweight the solution is multihull, especially proa, but that's not for the faint hearted.

 

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Small boats can be as, or more, seaworthy than larger boats. For example ocean rowing boats 20-22 feet long, self righting, regularly cross oceans, survive hurricanes, roll multiple times, and come to port none the worse - with adequately though not extremely experienced and competent crew. For many years the standard 2-person ocean rowing boat was 23'4" long and weighed 1650 lbs. fully laden!

 

Yes, but that's a rowing boat. So no rig and no ballast. And it's already 650lb over your target weight. Sailing boats typically have ~50% ballast ratio's, so the equivalent sailing boat is 3300lb. Add on the weight of the rig, extra strength to deal with the rig, the un-ballasted portion of the keel, self steering gear, etc and you're over 2 tonnes, co-incidentally the weight of a Folkboat.

 

And you still need all the cruising 'stuff', or at least a lot of food, water and storm sails. A flying 15 is just under 700lb, has no cabin, no storage, no storm sails, no food, no water, and requires about 400lb of crew to keep it upright. But even if you could de-tune one to allow singlehanding in anything over 8knots that doesn't solve the need for food, water, spare sails, or anywhere to sleep!

 

Have a look at Folkboats, they're pretty bloomin spartan, simple and minimalist! But at least they have a pedigree in bluewater cruising.

 

 

 

FF15%20Nats%202016%20Day%201%20-%20Crisp

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Another option would be my old boat, a Shark 24. I owned a couple of Sharks over 15 years. We did Victoria to Desolation several times. A family of four sailed one from Toronto to Australia, if I recall the details correctly. More info.

 

b-shark.gif

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Thanks to all for many good and interesting ideas.

 

Yes, the mini transat's are interesting, but still seem big, heavy and complicated to me. The goal of maximum speed involves compromises that add to complication, size and weight that shouldn't be necessary for my purposes.

 

Some thoughts:

 

Small boats can be as, or more, seaworthy than larger boats. For example ocean rowing boats 20-22 feet long, self righting, regularly cross oceans, survive hurricanes, roll multiple times, and come to port none the worse - with adequately though not extremely experienced and competent crew. For many years the standard 2-person ocean rowing boat was 23'4" long and weighed 1650 lbs. fully laden!

 

Generally, the smaller the boat, the smaller the forces - it takes less power to drive her (smaller sails), human power is more viable, structures and equipment need not be as big, strong and heavy, jury-rigging, maintenance and repair are easier and less expensive.

 

One can enjoy smaller waters in smaller boats: anchorages, estuaries, rivers, etc.; gunkholing is wonderful. I see no need to forego these joys just because I want to reach new cruising grounds on my boat, wherever in the world.

 

I like being able to pull my boat up on a beach. Unfortunately it's difficult (impossible?) to combine that with self-righting. Maybe I need to let go of beaching (not previously mentioned for that reason).

 

Ocean rowing boats, relying on human power, are SLOW, and therefore need lots of supplies. I believe that equally seaworthy small sailing vessels are possible and could be much faster. Taking 1/2, 1/3, or even less time for a passage, one would need less supplies, so the boat could be smaller and lighter . . .

 

I don't know that the boat I want exists, nor whether it can be found or created at reasonable cost . . .

 

I am a very experienced small boat sailor and cruiser, but without offshore experience. I would love to find and buy a small, light boat with serious offshore capability. Ideally I would get to know the boat while cruising in my home waters, the Salish Sea (Puget Sound, Strait of Juan de Fuca, San Juan Islands, Gulf Islands, Strait of Georgia) and beyond, while preparing myself and the boat for the open ocean. Next I would probably sail south down the Pacific coast, perhaps wintering in the Gulf of California before continuing - to the South Pacific and on to Asia or to the Caribbean and on to Europe?

 

I will be 70 in November. I'm healthy and in good shape, though currently recovering from hip replacement surgery. If I can find the right boat, I can begin the above process this summer. To create the boat I want, probably working with professional designers and high-tech boat builders, would take at least a year longer, and MUCH greater expense.

 

There is really not any production boat for such use as you describe, because the market for them is made up of very few people and all of them are fiercely independent-minded types who, being presented with such a boat expressly designed for it but mass-produced, would demand at least 50 changes to it before accepting.

 

Your choices are-

1- design and build custom boat. You can get whatever you want!

2- Pick an existing design and build it, or try to find one that is already built.

3- find a boat similar in size and form to what you have in mind, and modify it for your use. This could be done without investing as much time or money as building from scratch a custom design. However you will still need to buy expensive sails & other components.

 

There really is kind of a grey area between #2 and #3. There are literally thousands of designs with similar intent in the size range (approx 20 ft, approx 1,000 lbs) you want.

 

A Dovekie? COuld be made self-righting, or very close to it, with a lead shoe bolted to the bottom, you could still pull it up on the beach.

picdovekieka.jpg

 

John Welsford's Sweet Pea (a bit smaller LOA than you want) or perhaps his SMACK

smack.gif

 

 

Lots of potential boats out there, nobody can sort them for you. What you want is not uniquely original but it is something you won't find mass-produced, either. You might also gain from studying the boats of Sven Yerwind.

 

I've dabbled in boats like this, but my problem is that I'm spoiled. Generally a racing boat catches my fancy better, in the end.

 

FB- Doug

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If you're already 70 and looking to *do* this trip rather than just plan it - I'd start with the pool of readily available boats on the West Coast.

 

Cal 20, Santana 20, Santana 22.

 

Buy a sound one and start fixing and provisioning it for your trip.

 

As with your rowing boats, 20 feet is around the "small" sweet spot.

 

But you can go smaller:

http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html

 

Sage 17, Sage 15. Montgomery 15. Montgomery 17. Potter 15. Potter 19.

 

These are all centerboard boats however. I love my centerboard catboat. But I sail it in protected waters. if I'm venturing offshore into the truly large waves on an extended voyage, I want a sturdy fixed keel for three reasons:

 

1. No space intrusion into the interior. I need that space for provisions and moving around below while the weather's lousy.

2. No water intrusion through the centerboard trunk

3. No possibility of the ballast retracting when the boat is knocked over, causing the boat to fail to right.

 

And with that - I go back to something like a Cal 20.

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If you're already 70 and looking to *do* this trip rather than just plan it - I'd start with the pool of readily available boats on the West Coast.

 

Cal 20, Santana 20, Santana 22.

 

Buy a sound one and start fixing and provisioning it for your trip.

 

And with that - I go back to something like a Cal 20.

How about this interesting proposal... There are thousands of Cal 20 and many great ones had for a song. Buy a Cal 20 boat in a popular sailing area you want to try first. Don't bother to fix it up much. Check the rigging. Make sure its clean. Buy new sails for the boat. Sail the boat in the area. When you want to sail in another place. Sell the hull but take the new sails, your cushions, your gimbaled single burner and strong outboard. Buy another cal 20 at the next place and repeat when ready.

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Qoute Black Jack;

Sail the boat in the area. When you want to sail in another place. Sell the hull but take the new sails, your cushions, your gimbaled single burner and strong outboard. Buy another cal 20 at the next place and repeat when ready.

 

LOL, A pity in 24 ft to 30 ft only the j24 is worldwide.

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I'm thinking pretty seriously about a Cal 20 as at least a first step. There are generally many available at very reasonably prices. I planned to go to Seattle tomorrow to look at and probably buy one that appeared to be in very good condition. Unfortunately someone else put a deposit on it yesterday . . . A Cal 20 would certainly be fine in my home waters, and give me a chance to see how I like it. I cruised an old Venture 17 many years ago, so have a fair feel for small cruising sloops. I'll be pretty busy for the next month and a half, so buying a boat will probably wait until at least early April.

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There are a host of small inexpensive boats that make perfectly competent ( if not comfortable ) coastal cruisers which can be found for very little money (Ranger 23, etc) but whether you can or should go further offshore on them is really the regimen for serious hard-cases.

 

May I suggest - if you haven't done any blue-water sailing in a small boat that you might want to give it a try first ? Do something like a 50-100 mile trip in a smaller keelboat and see if it's what you had in mind. The 75 (upwind) miles from Honolulu to Maui, or even better - the 85 miles from Lihue to Honolulu on something like a J-24 (or similar) ought to clear things up - you'll get wet, sure but at least it's warm and you can help somebody deliver a boat (we move them around pretty regularly).

 

But I have a feeling when you get a good look at the way a small light boat gets chucked about in open-ocean conditions you may re-think this particular set of criteria as folly. No offense, but I can see this not working out quite as you might imagine.

 

Sort-of a case of: Small / Seaworthy / inexpensive / forgiving : Pick any two.

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