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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Greyhound37

guess what it cost to do a out of town race in a 29' boat?

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

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Why truck it up when it takes 48hrs to deliver it on its own bottom?

 

There's 5-8k saved right there-

Ditch the chef and cook for yourselves- surely BBQ and pasta and fish aren't outta your wheelhouse- that's another 5k-

 

Who needs to fly to RI from Annapolis? It's a six hour drive, even less if you get the ferry from ct.

More savings

 

Whoever is doing your logistics may be padding a lot into an event that's really not needed-

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How much extra does your guy charge for hookers and blow?

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Why truck it up when it takes 48hrs to deliver it on its own bottom?

 

There's 5-8k saved right there-

Ditch the chef and cook for yourselves- surely BBQ and pasta and fish aren't outta your wheelhouse- that's another 5k-

 

Who needs to fly to RI from Annapolis? It's a six hour drive, even less if you get the ferry from ct.

More savings

 

Whoever is doing your logistics may be padding a lot into an event that's really not needed- think you are a rich fool.

 

FIFY

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Good Christ. A chef? Airfare? Fulltime jig?

 

What the hell kind of J/88 program are you running?

That's cheap too. Ask the folks in the J70 and Melges 20 class what they spend on a crew day rate.

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This is outrageous. For 5K you could buy a truck and trailer for a J88

 

cost 8k for a hobie 33 trailer that was pretty barebones and not anodized. expect to pay more like 10-12k. smaller boat i know, but not by much. also are the 88's retract keel?

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This is outrageous. For 5K you could buy a truck and trailer for a J88

 

cost 8k for a hobie 33 trailer that was pretty barebones and not anodized. expect to pay more like 10-12k. smaller boat i know, but not by much. also are the 88's retract keel?

 

I didn't say new... craigslist is a powerful place, my friend.

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

 

You deserved to be taken, you pretentious arse.

 

Oh, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

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For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc.

 

Is a USA thing. Not normal in GBR until you are getting into high-level programmes. Owners or crew collectively may pick up the tab for those in education but those in employment pay their own costs and often will also pay a share of the entrance fee.

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

 

 

I sure hope none of my crew see it as a job but more of a team sport that they do because they enjoy it. I am very grateful and I think treat our crew very well, they all seem happy and most have been with us for years. Skiing, football, rugby, baseball, basketball, etc are a hell of a lot of work too, I don't see the same financial obligations for a captain of those teams. How is sailing different than other team sports, does the captain of a football team, ski, baseball, hockey, etc pay for the entire teams equipment and fees? Not on any recreational team I've ever been on. Again, not saying crew should pay equal but the idea that a BO pays for every single thing seems a little strange. I'm guessing it's left over from when yachting was an elitist activity done only by the ultra wealthy.

 

Sounds like across the pond in the UK it's different, but unfortunately that's a long way to travel for us

 

I wouldn't want anyone on our boat there out of obligation to some job they have to do but instead as something they enjoy. Sure, I get the pickle dish and whatever meaningless recognition for the 30 seconds I spend walking up to grab the dish. Seems like the $100,000 I spent on the boat and the 20-30K per year for sails, maintenance, etc is a lot for a pickle dish which I'd gladly give to any of the crew if they want it, and actually have before. I'm also not saying crew should pay equal amounts as a BO, but something every now and then would be nice, more as a show of gratitude, just as I do after every race or practice day.

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makes my 12 hour drive to a regional event in St Augustine spend $300 bucks on hotel, $100 on food and 100 on gas, seem pretty cheap...

 

god I love my small sail boats

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.
You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

 

Let's face it

Most crew are too cheap to buy a boat although many can afford it . Before I owned a string of boats I would do anything to crew because it was the only way I was going sailing

Fuckme-

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You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

Unless you are actually being paid to sail, it's not work. It's a hobby. Adults pay for their own hobbies.

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.
You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

What on earth are you on about US?

What sort of regatta program do you sail on that the crew has to take time off work and sail 8 hours a day? Is this symptomatic of all of your racing?

I'm an owner , and I'm the one that takes time off work to prep the boat, get it to and from regattas. I never have forced my crew to take one day off work in 20 fucking years.

I pay for all damages and lost equipment. I pay for the race entries. I pay for the beer on board, fuck me I even load it so it's cold before they get there.

If you have an issue in bringing your own fucking sandwiches or believe you shouldn't shout a round at the bar because I might win a pickle dish you've no chance on sailing on any owners boat I know.

What a load of self entitled shit. I thought better of you.

Edit: my crew happily offer to bring lunch /beer/buy rounds. They even pay for their own accomodation and flights to Hammo. Guess I must be just lucky, am I?

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I disagree with the crew entitlement to freebies. Unless you are running a pro program, then it's part of the deal. I've run an all expenses paid program, and now sail on someone else's boat where I largely pay my own travel and misc expenses. The one nice thing about the mindset of the current program I'm on is everyone wants to be there and enjoy the time. Folks are congenial and fun, and take an "ownership" stake.

 

The entitled boats often seem to attract assholes.

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

You can do Block for a lot less than 10K

PM me for details if your interested.

Block is, a do not miss event

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

 

Yeesh. It's not about the owner getting the award, it's about the BOAT getting the award. Do owners really have such an ego that they really think THEIR name should be on the trophy? Have the crew sign every award flag if they demand individual "credit." But the pride of wearing a team shirt with a winning boat's name on it is worth a lot.

 

For disclosure: my team and I split a lot of the costs, and the crew often chips in and buys the boat a "gift" (like a new traveller, sail, halyards, etc.) once a year.

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stupid argument...

 

do whatever works for you..., if it isn't working.., don't do it anymore

 

don't worry about what other people are doing

 

this applies to both owners and crew

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The guy hears you have a J-boat and cranks the price up, cause J-boat owners like to pay a lot for nothing.

The less on the boat weighs, the more you guys hand over. ;<) :<)

You should have told him you are shipping a gutted racing Pearson 28.

Price should be cut by 70%

 

May I suggest you sell the thing and get a set of Callaway clubs.

You can fly 1st class with a hooker to anywhere in the world and play golf just like Tiger.

Shit, for that kind of coin, you can play a round with Tiger.

 

Ok, the truth.

That toy is no AC boat and you sure as shit ain't Larry Ellison.

Seeing you are in Naptown, there has to be at least 1 trailer in town you can borrow/lease.

Ask around.

Have the crew help with set up.

The real ones will not have an issue.

 

There are plenty of ways to stroke your ego.

In fact there are industries based on the activity (eg Vegas or Atlantic City).

You going to race, have fun with friends, or to stroke your ego?

Decide that and everything else falls into place.

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i'll do it for $29,500 including lady margarette and Columbian bam bam.

 

seriously though- either pay the costs to feel like a hot shot, or sail the boat there and stay on it like everyone else does.

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Horses for courses. Depends on what type of program you want to run. I think the owner getting the boat there race ready is a good way.

 

Houses on the island are nice but, you could have some stay on the boat and get a room. You are only what , 5 up?

Announce to crew that they have to get there and chip in as you see fit - do that early and you will see what kind of crew they are now.

 

BI is a must do event. If you need crew, I will fly up and sleep in the forepeak or under the porch at Yellow Kittens.

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

 

if I ever got the sense that anybody thought they were doing me a favor being on my boat they would be off my boat fast & forever.

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I'd say if you were going to do this (or plan on doing this) with any kind of frequency, you might want to look into a trailer and a crew cab pickup truck.

 

From Triad the trailer will run you under $10k New and galvanized (yes I just got one quoted), probably $8500ish.

Also from Loadmaster the trailer will be quite close in price, within a couple hundred bucks.

 

Any F250, 2500ish class pickup should be able to tow it nicely.

 

Now you can attend things anywhere coast to coast.. and you are welcome. Wanna get fancy? Buy an 3500 class diesel RV, now you have a more comfy place to crash than the boat. Good luck feeding the fuel in it, you'll get about 8mpg towing.

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All these great cost saving ideas don't work for me. Well some could but it is still expensive as hell.

6 days of racing I sure as hell can't ad 2 days of transport on both end of that. Need to keep my job.

Airfare is cheap so not worth the savings.

Chef, not cutting her out...

Staying in Annapolis is not a hardship

 

.

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That's the thing about having a crew, you don't have to do the delivery. You send an email to everyone saying, "Guys, this is a regatta I think we'd have a ton of fun doing, but the boat's gotta get there, who's gonna step up the plate?"

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

 

 

All these great cost saving ideas don't work for me. Well some could but it is still expensive as hell.

6 days of racing I sure as hell can't ad 2 days of transport on both end of that. Need to keep my job.

Airfare is cheap so not worth the savings.

Chef, not cutting her out...

Staying in Annapolis is not a hardship

 

.

 

If you own a J88 and an MJM, you're probably considered a rich guy in most circles. If you seriously consider a chef a necessity, you're definitely a rich guy.

 

Staying in Annapolis will feel pretty shitty when there's breeze and booze in Block Island, not to mention that BIRW is your East Coast Championship. The easiest answer to all of this is buy a trailer, campaign your boat properly on your budget, do some things yourself to cut the cost, cut the chef and all the frills, and get a crew that doesn't mind paying their own way to regattas every once in a while. Sure it's nice to have a free ride to sail all week, but I would rather pay my own way and race on a boat that's serious about sailing.

 

Some of my favorite moments in Block Island are crew dinners where everyone on the boat pitches in to get dinner on the table, the best part about it is that you can do all of the cooking with a drink in your hand.

 

If your crew isn't willing to help out in some regard, then there's something wrong with the equation and it's time to move on.

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

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Sounds like you need different crew. I would help do the delivery and sail for the week with chipping in for some expenses for a shower, a proper shitter, and floor space for my sleeping bag. Everything else would just be gravy.

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

 

Sounds steep to me.

 

Hroth

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

 

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

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I agree with a few comments that if you are really considering the event, buy a trailer. The cost of moving the boat just went way down and you get to keep the trailer. Not sure about your area but a brand new tandem trailer, professionally built, with brakes etc, was around $5k for an Olson 30, very similar scale of boat to the J88. Once you have the trailer the options for future racing open up.

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Charter a superyacht and transport the boat, crew and chef on the yacht. Also sleep on it during race week. You can dry sail the boat off the yacht too.

 

Eliminates the cost of a trailer, crew transportation and house rental. DONE!

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Agree with the comments on acquiring your own truck (350) and triple axle trailer. PAY your own crew to get it around to multiple events. They will appreciate the extra beer money.

 

In other unrelated news Johnny Deppe's monthly wine bill is roughly what you've been quoted for your one race budget.

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What's this I see about an argument about whether the boat owner owes his crew a bunch of shit or whether the crew owes the boat owner a bunch of shit?

 

Fuck me, I know the shirts say Foredeck Union but I thought that was a joke, I didn't realize this crap was getting formally organized under the NLRB. I sail on the Great Lakes and occasionally on LIS, now I don't know whether I have to pay dues to Local 541 or Local 1600 anymore.

 

I did BIRW four years ago, I'm going back again this year. I'm thrilled to have been asked to go. Flattered, even. I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual to some extent, since, you know, skippers want to sail their boats and can't do it without crew. And putting one together isn't always easy, I get that. What I didn't realize is that it gives me some kind of leverage on the skipper, because he owes me? Or the skipper has some kind of leverage on me and I owe him? As the song says, how bizarre. I'm not an employee expecting a paycheck and the boat is not a business.

 

That is an argument you lose just by participating in.

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I've had more fun doing the deliveries in cruise mode than at most of the races where I was heading. Go a week ahead (get a cheap slip on the mainland) and return her home a week or two later. Maybe even tie in a long weekend of cruising with friends, family and soon to be enemies... That's what I did for CRW before I moved my boat to Charleston permanently.

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What's this I see about an argument about whether the boat owner owes his crew a bunch of shit or whether the crew owes the boat owner a bunch of shit?

 

Fuck me, I know the shirts say Foredeck Union but I thought that was a joke, I didn't realize this crap was getting formally organized under the NLRB. I sail on the Great Lakes and occasionally on LIS, now I don't know whether I have to pay dues to Local 541 or Local 1600 anymore.

 

I did BIRW four years ago, I'm going back again this year. I'm thrilled to have been asked to go. Flattered, even. I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual to some extent, since, you know, skippers want to sail their boats and can't do it without crew. And putting one together isn't always easy, I get that. What I didn't realize is that it gives me some kind of leverage on the skipper, because he owes me? Or the skipper has some kind of leverage on me and I owe him? As the song says, how bizarre. I'm not an employee expecting a paycheck and the boat is not a business.

 

That is an argument you lose just by participating in.

Actually the real problem is that it IS a business for many. The dude that was going to give a bro rate of 30k to his "friend" for organizing everything. That's a business. The group 3 sailors who get paid under the table so they can say they are a 1, that's a business decision for both owner and crew. All of that permeates regattas like this and jacks up or at least clouds expectations.

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Yes, you can do BIRW for 30K. You can likely do it for 3k as well. Depends on how you roll. If you pay yourself or split with crew is up to you and your crew.

 

It seems like the OP wrote a note detailing the most expensive route and then complained that it was too expensive. I'm not sure I understand the point.

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

 

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

 

 

This.

 

Out of the 5 weeks of vaca I get a year, I usually end up cashing out 3 of them. I almost never take long blocks of time off, rather work 3 days a week and live on the boat and daysail during the season. I spend a lot of time on my boat, but the time requirements are one of several reasons I don't race.

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

This.

 

Out of the 5 weeks of vaca I get a year, I usually end up cashing out 3 of them. I almost never take long blocks of time off, rather work 3 days a week and live on the boat and daysail during the season. I spend a lot of time on my boat, but the time requirements are one of several reasons I don't race.

What are the other reasons you don't race, and what would it take to get you back into it?

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

 

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

 

 

I don't think it is problem with our sport. It's a problem with your job/employer. Not being able to take more than 1 week off at a time isn't normal. It is definitely sad. Work/life balance. That's why we sail in first place.

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

 

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

 

 

I don't think it is problem with our sport. It's a problem with your job/employer. Not being able to take more than 1 week off at a time isn't normal. It is definitely sad. Work/life balance. That's why we sail in first place.

 

Exactly - sounds like a terrible culture. Don't let them push you around...

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I did four regattas on a Melges 24 last year all at least a 10 hour drive from home, for well less than $30K. Owner+Crew transport, rig, and prep boats themselves. Paid for lodging, boat transit, some food, some gear, etc...

 

If you want to fly into every regatta, step onto a prepped boat, leave the dock, and have a chef cook meals for you then you probably need to be willing to pay a lot more.

 

But this is not a realistic budget to use as a basis for complaining about regatta costs. Tow and rig your own boat, make your own food, and then maybe you can start complaining about costs.

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I was going to say something about cost, but then... If 6 days of vacation is a pinch for you, then going to regattas is the least of your problems. Seriously, that is really sad.

 

That's one of the problems with our sport- To do it right, sometimes you need to take a week or more off. Many people in our society just don't have that kind of free time anymore. It is sad.

By May, I'll have 240 hours of vacation in the bank. I'll be lucky if I can take a week off.

 

To play any ball-related sport, all you need is an afternoon.

I don't think it is problem with our sport. It's a problem with your job/employer. Not being able to take more than 1 week off at a time isn't normal. It is definitely sad. Work/life balance. That's why we sail in first place.

Wisdom.

 

I'm always surprised at how tough time off is for a lot of people. I'm sure some is self inflicted, where people are convinced work can't exist without them. The cemeteries are full of indispensable men.

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We've done it twice with the FT10. For 7 guys, rental house, moorings, registration, food, booze, all fees, I was in for $7k. Most of my crew is able to shoulder a portion of the cost - and I asked them to chip in $100/day each - not a bad deal for a glamorous week vacation. Everyone covered their own personal delivery from homes around the country to BI, I delivered the boat on its own bottom.

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$ 30 Grand ?

 

Reminds me of the joke about St. Peter building the new gates for heaven.

 

God tells him to get 3 quotes.

 

First, a black contractor comes in and says it'll be $ 10,000.00 - Saint Peter asks for him to break it out:

"Sure, it's $ 5,000 for Labor, $ 4,000.00 for materials and $ 1,000 contingency."

 

Then an Italian contractor comes in and quotes it at $ 20,000.00 - and St. Pete asks for the break-out.

"It'sa ten thousand for the finest materials, 8 for labor and 2 grand for contingency"

 

Last the Sailing Buddy is asked for a quote and returns with the $ 30,000 figure - "How's THAT work out ?" asks Saint Peter.

 

"Ten Grand for you, Ten grand for me, and we get the brotha to build it."

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Most importantly, if you find yourself studying ways to save money in yacht racing, you might want to back up a step.

 

The funny part, of course is the realization that you can't afford to be away from work for all that time, yet are surprised when somebody else charges you to do that work... I mean, shouldn't they be doing it for The Love ?

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

 

Remind me to NEVER as you to crew for me you self centered asshole

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Perhaps I've been doing this too long and Ive lost sight of the big picture.

 

disregard my previous whiney cunt of a rant.

A little late - I guess you just voted your sorry ass off a fair number of boats

 

#YouJustFuckedYourself

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Yeah well, sorry, that was misplaced and as stated earlier in the thread I apologize for being a cunt-

Well then - as you repented you might be able to come sail - if you bring sammies

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My apologies to the OP for the thread drift I seemed to have started here asking about crew/BO expectations. Appreciate all the input, even the one that doesn't seem so popular. Different strokes for different folks and different cultures and expectations on different boats & teams I suppose. I get the feeling I'm doing more than is even expected or is done for most teams, at least for the weekend warrior non professional teams like ours.

 

I really don't mind buying the guys dinner, drinks, etc. But to be honest it does seem like it's taken for granted most of the time. There was one time a couple years ago where the team bought me dinner and I can't even tell you how nice that was. Seriously, it couldn't have been more than an extra $5 or $10 for each guy but it's not about the money, it's about knowing that they appreciate how much money and especially time and energy it takes to run a race program. I'm not complaining, I enjoy it and I don't expect them to do any work on the boat. I'm just saying its nice to be recognized by the guys every once in a while. Just like when I tell the crew how much I appreciate their time and hard work.

 

Want to make your boat owner extremely happy? Have the crew buy him a dinner once a year or even just tell him, "hey I totally get how much time, energy and money you spend to get the boat ready, thanks." At least for me that's all it takes to make me happy.

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I have a J-88 in Annapolis. No trailer. It has been strongly suggested to sign up for Block Island Race Week. A do not miss event!

So I asked a friend with many years of experience in handling logistics for races give me an idea of cost.

He would do it all so we would just fly in and race then fly home like rich guys

Soup to nuts as they say. Now if you are going lets not go on the cheap... so

He has the boat prepped for trucking, rent a trailer and delivers her to Newport and rigged.

Rent a house on BI, chef, groceries, adult beverages etc

Crew airfare, transport to BI.

Complete the event, get the trophy and fly home.

Boat is delivered back to Newport, prepped for transport and trucked back to Annapolis and re-commissioned.

$30,000. No hookers, no drugs just getting a little boat up the coast to go racing.

Annapolis is looking real good this season.

So not being a rich guy I decided to sail the boat to the NE next year and leave her there for the season. Then I can run my MJM up and stay on it while racing local events. Good plan.

 

 

 

Dude, if you gotta stay at work instead of doing a delivery................stay at home.

 

  • Rent a house? get a motel with a kitchenette, unless you are staying a month. Nothing like a Salisbury Steak TV dinner. I lived on those things for 2 weeks a the 2007 MOCR. I did go out a few times. Cereal for breakfast ( Denny's a couple of times)
  • Chef?? ever hear of Subway and restaurants. Tell the crew, hey guys you gotta pay for your dinners. I'll make scrambles eggs for breakfast and subway for lunch. $5.95 for a foot long cold cut combo out west, that's 2 lunches. add in chips.
  • Fly or drive........................you got to be kidding me.

 

You must have never done an out of town'er?

Fracking east coast knuckle heads.

 

27911d1027712527-can-i-warp-brake-drum-h

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Are your crew not adults who could pay for their own accommodation cost, airfares, food and drink?

I'm just gonna be the douche bag boat owner guy and say it, This here is one of the reasons why there are not more boats racing. For some reason racing culture has always been the guy who puts up all the money for the boat and keeps it in race ready condition ($$$$$) also pays all expenses for crew, including travel, lodging, food, etc. Seems a little backwards to me, the guy who is putting up all the money for the boat and allowing folks to use the boat pays for everything. Even just for beer can races it's still expected the boat owner buy drinks, a sandwich, etc. I own a boat and run a crew of about 7 or 8 crew and even though I don't mind paying for team dinners or other stuff the $$ adds up quick. I can afford it but I'm far from super wealthy with money to burn. It would be nice every once in a while if the crew bought the boat owner a drink or dinner, just as a show of appreciation but that rarely happens. I can definitely see a day when I get tired of forking out all that money and move onto a smaller boat with small crew or just go OPB, then there's one less boat on the start line. Anyone feel the same? Have a different take? I'm truly curious.

You're asking others to take time away and basically work for you to win you a pickle dish-

 

You shouldn't expect someone to build a deck on your house for free- even a friend- you might even buy that friend lunch, or a beer, or put him up if it takes a few days...

 

If you win, you get the pickle dish, you get the press, your name on the leaderboard etc- the crew is basically working in anonymity for free, so you can parade your 4kt shitbox around the course. If you aren't willing to show them the courtesy of paying for their room and boarding you should buy a laser.

 

Should they bring their own lunches and return the team shirt at the end of the day and thank you for the honor of being aboard? Fuck me...

 

You are only as good as your crew- treat them well. Bitching about the cost of having crew? Really?

 

You should be fucking grateful they show up and bust their asses for 8hrs a day for a Sammy and a beer you ingrate.... you want them to pay for the privilege too?

 

Fuckme-

 

uh,,,, having been on both sides of the table, i have and will always be of the opinion that the skipper provides the boat and i get to play on it. There was a point in time where i didn't have money to get to events or pay for my food in resort areas, and i certainly appreciated what the boat owners provided for me. In return i try to be the first one to the boat (often fail - i are not a morning person) but i'm almost always the last one to leave and i'll always offer to clean the boat or help fix what broke. There were some regattas i turned down (maybe one or two) because i was asked if i could pay my way, and, at that time, i couldnt. No big deal. Everyday i get to be on a boat is a day i get to be on the water racing. If i'm with a crew where i'd rather not be on the water, i'm with the wrong crew. That's not to say i dont get a bit burned out by the end of BIRW and all the regattas that lead up to it, but it only takes a week or two and i'll be looking forward to the next event. Look, i like the people i race with, and the people that own the boats - but i'm not racing for them.I'm racing with them.

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Yachting is not yachting if you have someone else moving the boat. Especially by truck.

 

That's when it IS yachting. If you sail it yourself it's called sailing or sailboat racing.

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This is silly.

 

Different boats have different cultures about who pays for what, who brings what, and who does what. If you want to have all pro crew, you will need to step up, but if your crew is comprised of amateur sailors with jobs, and they understand ahead of time that they will need to make a contribution to the effort, that is a different matter. That might mean that you won't be able to sail with your regular crew.

 

Delivering a boat this size on its own bottom is a challenge, and will require big chunks of time and delivery sails if you do not have them, keeping in mind that weather conditions in the area between the Delaware Capes and BI can be severe and a J/88 is not an offshore boat.

 

The biggest costs will be hauling and launching the boat, and crew food and lodging. I don't know if there is a yacht club in the vicinity that has a hoist large enough to launch the boat. If there isn't, you will need to pay a boatyard to haul and launch the boat. From Mystic, it isn't far to BI. It should be possible to charter a boat large enough for the crew to sleep aboard with a galley where you can prepare breakfast and dinner. One big Costco trip to provision. If everyone throws in a couple of hundred dollars, you should be close to meeting the expenses for food & drinks.

 

Make sure everyone understands that this will be a KOA trip, and not a Le Meridian resort vacation. Make a schedule for cooking and clean-up. Keep your expectations reasonable. Have fun.

 

Delivering a boat this size on its own bottom is a challenge, and will require big chunks of time and delivery sails if you do not have them.

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And I thought a $1k to do the Figawi, entry, Nantucket slip rental and meals, sleeping on board was stiff.

 

$1000? Try 2.5 times after slip fees at NAN and food on the Island are counted in. I'm budgeting $3k but for the first time ever it will be a 'crew donations accepted' race. And yes, we sleep aboard. And I don't add in the moped rentals either.

 

The crew was more than happy to oblige my request for cost containment and subsidies.

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Yachting is not yachting if you have someone else moving the boat. Especially by truck.

 

That's when it IS yachting. If you sail it yourself it's called sailing or sailboat racing.

 

So you were ok with the word "yacht" being coopted by people that have nothing to do with real yachts then? :-P

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