frozenhawaiian

do you think the melges 14 will catch on?

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On our end, any masters Laser sailors that talk about switching or have switched to other boats talk exclusively about the Aero. But as it's been said, seems to be all about geography. 

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On 6/26/2017 at 8:48 AM, xonk1 said:

This thread began with the question " do you think the Melges 14 will catch on? " Here at the Lake Lanier Sailing Club just north of Atlanta the answer seems to be a definite YES. After the Melges traveling demo team came to our club we now have FIVE ( 5 ) brand new 14s on our ramp. Number SIX ( 6 ) has been ordered to be delivered soon. Seems pretty clear that once sailors try the 14 they love it. Arrange a demo in your area and you might be surprised. The reaction here has been very positive. More members are expressing an interest as the new boats sail. The only problem seems to be what to do with all the old Lasers? Check it out.

give them to the opti kids...

 

I just wish M had an event near me...    we have a largish (30+)  laser fleet, but most of the sailors are getting older and less manueverable  so comfort is starting to be a factor..  and like me my weight (225lb) prevents me from competing in the boat..

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Does anyone know the approximate production rates for the Melges 14 ?  There seems to be plenty of activity with many regatta/demo sailing days scheduled across the country but some buyers with down payments paid seem to wait a long time for their boats. Is the boat just too popular? Is the demand well beyond expectations? Hope so? 

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^^^

lol.

Melges does not have the best reputation when it comes to building dinghies. 
You saw the mess they made in the few years they built 29ers?

I imagine there are delays, because, it's Melges, and you do whatever they tell you to do and be happy about it.

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Super fun boat, we have 5 at Privateer yacht club in Chattanooga and look like we are going to be adding at least 2 more to our fleet shortly.  I have been an MC Scow racer so I am a little behind on the learning curve but it is a blast to sail.

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Puffdaddy, Glad to hear things at Privateer are going so well for the Melges 14.  Here at Lake Lanier Sailing Club ( Atlanta ) we now have six. Big news is that Team Melges is coming south for our ( LLSC ) annual Halloween Regatta Oct 28-29. I have already reserved a charter boat for the regatta. Excellent deal at $300. for three days. Contact Eddie Cox at Melges. He is heading up the Melges 14 push here for our Halloween Regatta. Hope some of your Melges 14 guys can join us for the regatta. Great chance for the interested folks to charter and try it in a friendly race environment. Come on Down!

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Things are looking really good for the annual Halloween Regatta here at Lake Lanier Sailing club with the arrival of " Team Melges ' to support the growing Melges 14 fleet ( now 6 boats ). They are bringing charter boats and we expect a good showing from the Melges14 fleet at Privateer Yacht Club in Chattanooga. Could be as many as 15 boats for racing. Details next week. Happy Sailing!

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I took a Melges 14 for a spin after the Annapolis Boat Show.

It was super light when I started and when you have to kneel in the boat or stand up and rock it while pumping the sail, it's a pleasure.  Heading towards Greenbury Pt. the breeze picked up and the boat really came alive.  What I was most impressed with was the seat of the pants feel to acceleration, the boat tugs much more actively than I was used to with either the Laser Standard or the Laser with the Intensity Powerhead, or from the test sails of the Aero 9.  The boat is very lively.  Coming back in I had a lot of power boat chop to surf on and it only took the slightly s-curve effort from Laser sailing to induce a short surf that I know is too light to experience on a Laser.

I really liked the boat.  It was very comfortable, stable, easy downwind, quick on a reach and stable, stable, stable.  I purposefully took the restriction knot out of the sheet and allowed the main out beyond 90 and sailed aggressively by the lee to the point of auto gybing a few times.  The boat communicated its intent with a pause in speed, loose rudder feel, and then as the sail came through I felt like I had all the time in the world to adjust my weight.  I never felt the urge to throw myself against the gybe, it was a stable transition.

The only reason I didn't write a check that day with the sale that was going on was because I'm in Annapolis and for a singlehander you either sail a Laser or take up mountain biking.

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I recently saw a dealer demo for sale - Sail # 538 but the add mentioned hull # 38. Any idea of how many boats made so far?

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Andy Burdick  ( Melges ) says the HULL NUMBERS are sequential and represent the number a particular boat was in the production sequence. I think sail numbers are meaningless with regard to your question. Happy Sailing

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17 hours ago, xonk1 said:

Andy Burdick  ( Melges ) says the HULL NUMBERS are sequential and represent the number a particular boat was in the production sequence. I think sail numbers are meaningless with regard to your question. Happy Sailing

Thanks for the info. Any idea how many hulls have been produced?

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My GUESS ( and it's only my guess ) is 300 world wide. Let's hope someone with direct knowledge can give you an exact number.

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I'd guess more like 600 boats. How can I find out about the dealer demo that might be for sale? What part of the country? Or any Melges 14's that might be for sale?

Thanks.

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PW-

I'd like to get one, too. Avon NY is just a bit too far. Not sure why all the local guys are buying Finns when something 1/2 the price (new vs. new) and 70 years newer is available.

Probably easier to get a new one from Zenda.

Thanks for your reply.

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On 8/14/2017 at 12:17 PM, Mystique said:

at least someone knows how to build quality boats.....

i've heard M14 production has been picking up too

IMG_1240.thumb.PNG.9e141c88f0764b66c085a5d08cc84fb6.png

Yes this was certainly unfortunate but the failure rate of 3 out of 2300+ isn't too shabby. 

2 of those happened in the U.S.

Both times this happened in the U.S. we replaced the hulls and in both cases it wasn't related to this quality issue or others.  These are the only hull integrity issues I've had with the RS Aero North America, and we really did the best we could to support these customers, I'd say their happy!

We learned that the issue was related to not gluing the transom screws in well enough, when they loosened they torqued that area around and this was the result.  

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Whether you are a fan of the Aero or not, great to see them stand behind their product and be transparent about the issue. 

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5 hours ago, RSsailingNA said:

Yes this was certainly unfortunate but the failure rate of 3 out of 2300+ isn't too shabby. 

2 of those happened in the U.S.

Both times this happened in the U.S. we replaced the hulls and in both cases it wasn't related to this quality issue or others.  These are the only hull integrity issues I've had with the RS Aero North America, and we really did the best we could to support these customers, I'd say their happy!

We learned that the issue was related to not gluing the transom screws in well enough, when they loosened they torqued that area around and this was the result.  

I sailed both the M14 and the Aero. Liked both, but would buy the M14 because it felt more comfortable to me. Regardless of my preference, I am extremely happy both are selling well.

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On 5/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, Running with Scissors said:

I'd guess more like 600 boats. How can I find out about the dealer demo that might be for sale? What part of the country? Or any Melges 14's that might be for sale?

Thanks.

Sold, about a week!

http://shorelinesailboats.com/used-sailboats/

 

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Nice guy. Just realized the boat was too much for him unfortunately. 

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Yeah, that's the price of a new one, but the road trailer is the extra bonus.

Was it too much $ for him or too much physically?

I've read that they are easy to depower. Anyone have experience with how physical the boat it? Say compared to a Laser or Finn?

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neat boat. Looks fun. Not willing to spend that much on it.

yeah, yeah...I’m a cheap ass.

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1 hour ago, Running with Scissors said:

Yeah, that's the price of a new one, but the road trailer is the extra bonus.

Was it too much $ for him or too much physically?

I've read that they are easy to depower. Anyone have experience with how physical the boat it? Say compared to a Laser or Finn?

He's older, but I think if he went to a smaller rig he'd have been fine. I find it easier to depower than a Laser, but if you don't pull the strings you've got a pretty powerful sail on your hands. When I first started sailing the Laser I had a day that kicked my ass so hard I questioned seriously if I was done with it. Fortunately I got over that and figured it out. I think he had a similar experience in Sarasota but went the other direction. I wish he'd give it another go, but I get where he's coming from. I believe the boat has been sailed a couple times. 

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Just got an email from Melges sales (Fall discount promo). He said there are 250 M14s build so far (two years production)

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Questions:

1) So what is the cost on the 'Fall discount promo'?

2) Are there any DPN numbers between the M14 and RS Aero?

 

I know buy the boat that has the active OD fleet in your area. Which is the Laser for the Chesapeake. Neither the M14 or RS Aero has made any significant inroads in our area, unfortunately!

So not sure I am in the market yet but boy does a modern boat with a self draining cockpit have a lot of appeal! Hey I can always use one more boat! LOL

 

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On 8/27/2018 at 2:53 PM, Port Wine said:

Just got an email from Melges sales (Fall discount promo). He said there are 250 M14s build so far (two years production)

Yikes  :/  That's a really low number of builds.

RS has built 2,500 Aeros with a one year head start.

 

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1 hour ago, Hobie Dog said:

Questions:

1) So what is the cost on the 'Fall discount promo'?

2) Are there any DPN numbers between the M14 and RS Aero?

 

I know buy the boat that has the active OD fleet in your area. Which is the Laser for the Chesapeake. Neither the M14 or RS Aero has made any significant inroads in our area, unfortunately!

So not sure I am in the market yet but boy does a modern boat with a self draining cockpit have a lot of appeal! Hey I can always use one more boat! LOL

 

Fall discount is $250 for the boat and 10% accessories.

 

Aero dpns are 86.3 (9 rig) and 88.7 (7 rig). The only handicap I found for the M14 is Privateer Yacht Club: 87.8 (Gold) and 88.2 (Blue)

 

http://www.privateeryachtclub.org/files/Dinghy/2018/Race%201.pdf

 

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OK $250 but off of how much??? I assume there will be reps for the Melges and RS Aero at the Annapolis show. So I can check them out then.

Seems like the RS Aero DPN number is a little more established??? Melges might have some more moving around??? But looks obvious both are significantly faster than the Laser/Laser Radial.

If those numbers for the Aero are close that is impressive for a single sail non trap boat.

My Buccaneer is 86.9

Lightning is 87

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25 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

OK $250 but off of how much??? I assume there will be reps for the Melges and RS Aero at the Annapolis show. So I can check them out then.

Seems like the RS Aero DPN number is a little more established??? Melges might have some more moving around??? But looks obvious both are significantly faster than the Laser/Laser Radial.

If those numbers for the Aero are close that is impressive for a single sail non trap boat.

My Buccaneer is 86.9

Lightning is 87

https://melges.com/_pdf/(M14)-Melges14-Pricesheet.pdf

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2 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Yikes  :/  That's a really low number of builds.

RS has built 2,500 Aeros with a one year head start.

 

Tough to compare. I would imagine, most, if not all of Melges' boats stayed in the US. How many Aero's are there now in the US?

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2 hours ago, Port Wine said:

Thanks! I was just on their web site and missed that.

Sorry I was being lazy!

Sail prices seems reasonable for what they are compared to a Laser. And please don't start a Laser sail price debate on this thread, lots of threads for that. Just an observation. The dolly for $525 is a good deal. Boat is a little more pricey than the RS Aero as has been noted.

Laser is still significantly less money but it's a lot of old technology in spars and hull build.

 

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2 hours ago, bill4 said:

Tough to compare. I would imagine, most, if not all of Melges' boats stayed in the US. How many Aero's are there now in the US?

That's a good point. I am sure RS has that data. Now would they release it to the general public???

 

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All that matters in the end is which boat is raced near you ( or a reasonable distance for driving ) and which boat will accommodate you physically. Merges 14 is better for bigger and heavier racers. Happy Sailing!

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Neither boat appears to be lighting it up in the US - at least not according to published race results. 

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17 hours ago, xonk1 said:

All that matters in the end is which boat is raced near you ( or a reasonable distance for driving ) and which boat will accommodate you physically. Merges 14 is better for bigger and heavier racers. Happy Sailing!

For racing I could not agree with you more! Not selling my Laser as long as there is good local OD racing.

What I am looking for is a more rewarding sailing experience for day sailing. And if there is some local OD racing that is even better.

My Buccaneer is a wonderful sailing boat but at 18' and 500 lbs. she is kinda of a PITA to launch and recover alone. Not to mention for me at 165 lbs. in over 10 knots she is way overpowered and no way could I recover from a capsize alone. So it's a pretty narrow wind window to take her out alone.

So when I can't find crew or just want to sail alone I am looking for something faster, more rewarding, more comfortable than my Laser. Probably either boat fits that bill. And if that boat makes some inroads to the OD racing scene even better.

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2 hours ago, bill4 said:

Neither boat appears to be lighting it up in the US - at least not according to published race results. 

I got the impression that both boats had decent turnouts at their FL regattas this past Winter??? I will have to go look that up...

A lot is riding on what boat is chosen for Paris 2024. Yes it's a very small percentage of sailors that sail at that level but the pass down of used boats can be a big factor and I think that is what it is going to take to dethrone the Laser. We have a 1996 Atlanta Laser at our club for example.

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56 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

I got the impression that both boats had decent turnouts at their FL regattas this past Winter??? I will have to go look that up...

A lot is riding on what boat is chosen for Paris 2024. Yes it's a very small percentage of sailors that sail at that level but the pass down of used boats can be a big factor and I think that is what it is going to take to dethrone the Laser. We have a 1996 Atlanta Laser at our club for example.

Yes - the Melges 14 and the RS Aero both had about 25 boats at their Midwinters in Florida this year.

Decent but not outstanding.

Long way to go to "dethrone" the Laser, whatever that means.

But I don't think the people sailing the Melges 14 and RS Aero really care about dethroning the Laser. Speaking purely for myself I am enjoying sailing a more modern boat than the Laser and am pleased to see a good RS Aero regatta circuit developing locally (New England) and internationally. If others are having fun sailing Melges 14s or Devoti D-Zeros or VX Evos or Lasers or Force 5s or Sunfish then good luck to them. There's room for everyone.

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30 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

For racing I could not agree with you more! Not selling my Laser as long as there is good local OD racing.

What I am looking for is a more rewarding sailing experience for day sailing. And if there is some local OD racing that is even better.

My Buccaneer is a wonderful sailing boat but at 18' and 500 lbs. she is kinda of a PITA to launch and recover alone. Not to mention for me at 165 lbs. in over 10 knots she is way overpowered and no way could I recover from a capsize alone. So it's a pretty narrow wind window to take her out alone.

So when I can't find crew or just want to sail alone I am looking for something faster, more rewarding, more comfortable than my Laser. Probably either boat fits that bill. And if that boat makes some inroads to the OD racing scene even better.

i'm pretty sure there's a melges 14 fleet in norfolk, virginia. maybe that's near you?

the guys at melges are pretty good about offering demos and regatta charters. i know there's a form somewhere on the melges 14 website www.melges14.com 

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RS has built close to 3000 Aeros (I think it's 2700 or so last I heard).
I know we've sold ~130 just on the West Coast of the US

My guess is there are around 300-350 Aeros in the US at this time.

The biggest fleet I know of is in Seattle with 30+ Aeros.

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2 hours ago, tillerman said:

Yes - the Melges 14 and the RS Aero both had about 25 boats at their Midwinters in Florida this year.

Decent but not outstanding.

Long way to go to "dethrone" the Laser, whatever that means.

But I don't think the people sailing the Melges 14 and RS Aero really care about dethroning the Laser. Speaking purely for myself I am enjoying sailing a more modern boat than the Laser and am pleased to see a good RS Aero regatta circuit developing locally (New England) and internationally. If others are having fun sailing Melges 14s or Devoti D-Zeros or VX Evos or Lasers or Force 5s or Sunfish then good luck to them. There's room for everyone.

That was not my point. Agree that most people racing in the M14 or RS Aero class don't have it out for the Laser and wish demise or to dethrone the boat as the largest single handed dinghy class in the world. BUT you can bet your ass that the folks at Melges and RS Aero sure want to! My point was winning the bid for the boat in the Paris 2024 Olympics is going to be a huge step up for one of those companies if they can win it. Winning that bid still will not have you pass the Laser any time soon in the number of boats that are racing as there are SO many Lasers out there. But it probably will put you #1 for new boat sales. It's a big deal for these companies.

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2 hours ago, Mystique said:

i'm pretty sure there's a melges 14 fleet in norfolk, virginia. maybe that's near you?

the guys at melges are pretty good about offering demos and regatta charters. i know there's a form somewhere on the melges 14 website www.melges14.com 

That's news to me. Hampton, Norfolk, VA Beach is about 3.5-4 hours away.

Hampton Yacht Club is the most active down there in the racing scene. Just checked their web site and did not see the Melges 14 mentioned. Of course that does not mean they don't have a fleet building there.

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2 hours ago, WestCoast said:

RS has built close to 3000 Aeros (I think it's 2700 or so last I heard).
I know we've sold ~130 just on the West Coast of the US

My guess is there are around 300-350 Aeros in the US at this time.

The biggest fleet I know of is in Seattle with 30+ Aeros.

Thanks WestCoast for that data.

 

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I have no idea what anybody's expectations were. I guess a "game changer" would have been some people's dreams, and that isn't evident - at least not yet. And these are two wonderful looking boats which tick most boxes. Tough business.

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An interesting metric would be annual sales (global, regional, specific country) of new M14, Aero, Laser, D-zero and, for good measure, Finn. 

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4 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

There's room for everyone.

absolutely! as long as people are out sailing!!

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17 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

An interesting metric would be annual sales (global, regional, specific country) of new M14, Aero, Laser, D-zero and, for good measure, Finn. 

That would be interesting!

Well here in the US for 2018 I would guess:

1) Laser

2) RS Aero

3) M14

4) D-zero

5) Finn

I have never seen a D-zero in real life. But I put it above the Finn as I have NEVER even heard of anybody buying a new Finn. I guy used to have one at our club. Years ago, not sure what he did with it. I don't know if I ever saw it sailing??? In fact I think I have ever seen one sailing! LOL

 

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2 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

That would be interesting!

Well here in the US for 2018 I would guess:

1) Laser

2) RS Aero

3) M14

4) D-zero

5) Finn

I have never seen a D-zero in real life. But I put it above the Finn as I have NEVER even heard of anybody buying a new Finn. I guy used to have one at our club. Years ago, not sure what he did with it. I don't know if I ever saw it sailing??? In fact I think I have ever seen one sailing! LOL

 

If being in the Olympics is such a big deal, why aren't more people buying new Finns?

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

If being in the Olympics is such a big deal, why aren't more people buying new Finns?

110ce4f8-4bb4-4927-8d49-2f7d22ce1c7c.jpg

This is why!

1) You have to be a monster to sail a Finn! Dudes are jacked! Need to be 210-220 lbs. and not eat fast food all the time 210-220 lbs. Like professional athlete 210. And people think the Laser boom is low. Look at that thing! So not only do you have to be big and strong but flexible as well!

2) Complicated! How many control lines do you need on a single sail cat rigged boat. Apparently more than the standard 3 for the Finn!

3) Expensive. I believe they are around 20K. Custom mast and sail plan to fit the sailor I believe as well.

Smaller, simpler, less expensive, smaller sail plan boats like all the ones we have been discussing in this thread have a much larger buying population.

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I agree with HD about the Finn. Sailed one once- it is fun until you need to tack or gybe. Damn thing nearly took my head off...and for bonus points, it is heavy as hell!

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The Finn doesn't really belong in this list. It stands well alone and must be revered as something special. The Melges, Aero, Laser and Zero are all similar in concept. The Finn is, well, the Finn. Nothing compares. I also see that there were 340 in the Masters Worlds this year, with 14 of the top 20 from different countries. The other boats are just not worthy.  

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2 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

You have to be a monster to sail a Finn! Dudes are jacked! Need to be 210-220 lbs.

finally a boat for me

 

2 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

 and not eat fast food all the time 210-220 lbs

ah, shit!! nevermind

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OK getting back to sort of on topic here, I just checked on the boats listed to be at the Annapolis show and both the Melges and RS Aero are not listed. I believe they were both there last year??? Bummer as I wanted to check them out closer. I assume the cost to put a small boat at this show is tough to justify??? Thus why the show is mostly large cruising boats and vendors. Thus why I end up going to APS first and buying what I actually need, maybe picking up some sunglasses at the show and then getting drunk in the Gin tent! :lol:

 

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5 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

OK getting back to sort of on topic here, I just checked on the boats listed to be at the Annapolis show and both the Melges and RS Aero are not listed. I believe they were both there last year??? Bummer as I wanted to check them out closer. I assume the cost to put a small boat at this show is tough to justify??? Thus why the show is mostly large cruising boats and vendors. Thus why I end up going to APS first and buying what I actually need, maybe picking up some sunglasses at the show and then getting drunk in the Gin tent! :lol:

 

i saw in their newsletter last week that they'll be there with the 14.

not sure if this link will work or if it's just my link from my email? does it work for you? http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Inside-Melges--The-September-Issue-.html?soid=1126977055871&aid=CkhbgjLTmzQ 

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I’m traveling at the moment, but I would be quite surprised if Zim Sailing didn’t have an RS Aero in their booth at Annap Boat Show.

They’ll have to make room for the RS21, and some other products, but, I’ll try to find out for sure.  I’d expect it there.

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, Mystique said:

i saw in their newsletter last week that they'll be there with the 14.

not sure if this link will work or if it's just my link from my email? does it work for you? http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Inside-Melges--The-September-Issue-.html?soid=1126977055871&aid=CkhbgjLTmzQ 

Awesome!

The Boat Show site only lists the IC37 as going to be there.

 

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23 hours ago, RSsailingNA said:

There will certainly be an RS Aero on the Zim Sailing Booth in Annapolis! Land Space 5

Hope to see you there!

I will come see you before the gin tent! LOL

Are you guys going to offer any demo sails after the show?

 

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Unfortunately Annapolis makes it impossible to do any demos, there are no venues that will allow a manufacturer to do a demo.  So to be honest we gave up. But we'd be glad to discuss demos somewhere else.

 

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Well RS Aero has just gone up $1000 to $14,500 here, so I can’t wait until the M14 arrives?

 

 

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12 hours ago, Port Wine said:

Interesting that KO sailing is listed as a dealer on the Melges site- thought they were RS central, esp for the Aero...

https://www.melges.com/?p=pages/useful-links

 

 

Intersting that Melges is not listed as a brand of boats they sell on KO Sailing's website.

Screen Shot 2018-11-23 at 10.03.55 PM.png

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