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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
Caferacer59

here's whats really killing sailing

89 posts in this topic

Yeah, so I'm a "sailor", and I have been for 3 years.....

 

I had to drop off my race fee for the season at the "big meeting" but couldn't stay for the festivities (some shit about burning stocks and a cliche cocktail called a dark and stormy)

 

In the 15 minutes i was there....

 

2 people invoked the "admiral" regarding a made up spousal complaint followed by a hearty belly laugh.

1 person complained about the current state of his "iron genny"

and an "interloper" as described to me denigrated "blow boats", while sheepishly admitting he's a "stinkpotter".

 

 

That is all. kill me now.

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I'm asking seriously and without sarcasm-

 

What would you like to see happen at this meeting/party?

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I'm asking seriously and without sarcasm-

 

What would you like to see happen at this meeting/party?

accepting venmo or even paypal instead of paperchecks is a start, Its all fine, i'm a dick what can i say, its not news.

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Caferacer has valid points.

 

Sailing is rife with chauvinism, just ask my wife who would happily castrate the jackass who dares call her 'admiral'

 

Sailing is rife with snobbery, my boat's not new and I've been dissed for that

 

Sailing is rife with prejudice, just peruse the sailing forums online and you'll see how pervasive it is

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I hear you. Our club just started accepting electronic payment for dues.

 

It sounds like there's an age gap between you and the other members, so maybe a lack of common ground for discussion. Dude, I'm nearly 45 and even I experience that gap sometimes.

I don't like that "admiral" tag and never really understood it. I never call my wife that but of course, she actually sails the damn boat.

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Horses for Courses.


Sailing to me is just trying to get the most out of whatever boat I happen to be on.

It could be just relaxing spring day like yesterday taking the German exchange student out for first time.


I am 48 and not an active local lake club member.

We do race on a OPB annually WNS for 10 yrs.


The Bar does not usually reflect the membership.



Sail Safe

post-1984-0-71075200-1490018990_thumb.jpg

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i think the OP has issues with annoying cliches. I agree.

 

That said motorboats are stinkpots.

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Yeah, so I'm a "sailor", and I have been for 3 years.....

 

I had to drop off my race fee for the season at the "big meeting" but couldn't stay for the festivities (some shit about burning stocks and a cliche cocktail called a dark and stormy)

 

In the 15 minutes i was there....

 

2 people invoked the "admiral" regarding a made up spousal complaint followed by a hearty belly laugh.

1 person complained about the current state of his "iron genny"

and an "interloper" as described to me denigrated "blow boats", while sheepishly admitting he's a "stinkpotter".

 

 

That is all. kill me now.

Location location location!

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Yeah, so I'm a "sailor", and I have been for 3 years.....

 

I had to drop off my race fee for the season at the "big meeting" but couldn't stay for the festivities (some shit about burning stocks and a cliche cocktail called a dark and stormy)

 

In the 15 minutes i was there....

 

2 people invoked the "admiral" regarding a made up spousal complaint followed by a hearty belly laugh.

1 person complained about the current state of his "iron genny"

and an "interloper" as described to me denigrated "blow boats", while sheepishly admitting he's a "stinkpotter".

 

 

That is all. kill me now.

Location location location!

 

Now that's Yacht Rock! We are proud to count Zappa as one of our own!

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Well done very clean Honda 350 (right?), sensible disc upgrade up front. Those rear sets look real nice.

 

Keep the rubber side down , or some such cliche!

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Yeah, so I'm a "sailor", and I have been for 3 years.....

 

I had to drop off my race fee for the season at the "big meeting" but couldn't stay for the festivities (some shit about burning stocks and a cliche cocktail called a dark and stormy)

 

In the 15 minutes i was there....

 

2 people invoked the "admiral" regarding a made up spousal complaint followed by a hearty belly laugh.

1 person complained about the current state of his "iron genny"

and an "interloper" as described to me denigrated "blow boats", while sheepishly admitting he's a "stinkpotter".

 

 

That is all. kill me now.

 

I don't know what any of that is or why any of that would be annoying.

 

And I don't know if that would mean you would like to hang around with me more than others or if my lack of understanding would be even more annoying than the comments of others.

 

I'm not even certain if I would like to hang around with you if you get annoyed so easily.

 

Or even if perhaps you would not like to hang around with me because I don't become annoyed.

 

I find this entire thread annoying.

 

Kill me now.

 

(BTW that is NOT what is really killing sailing. What is really killing sailing is the focus on fully crewed boats. Look around sometime next time you're out and count the number of boats with just a man and his wife on them.)

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Admiral is not an insult or at least I never heard it in that sense. Like SHMBO, it is ironic acknowledgement that we macho skippers of sailing yachts that can kill a shark with one hand while drinking a beer with the other while killing pirates with one foot still answer to a higher power ;) (trust me, running wire all over the boat and buying a big inverter to make the blow dryer work was not MY idea :lol:)

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Assholes, poorly managed PRHF, (or whatever the next latest/greatest handicap rule will be) and overbuilding the next latest/greatest sport boat, (like 20 new ones every year) is killing sailing.

 

Actually, assholes are our least problems....

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

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Non web based race entry is a problem at our club. The old school don't like change. With regatta network and paypal there is no reason to need a cheque based system.

 

I am part of a group working to bring our club into the information age. If it annoys you, be part of the solution... Bitching and doing nothing is way worse than the wife be called "admiral". Those old salts created the club we now enjoy. give'em a break huh?

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i reject all of this.........

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Admiral is not an insult or at least I never heard it in that sense. Like SHMBO, it is ironic acknowledgement that we macho skippers of sailing yachts that can kill a shark with one hand while drinking a beer with the other while killing pirates with one foot still answer to a higher power ;) (trust me, running wire all over the boat and buying a big inverter to make the blow dryer work was not MY idea :lol:)

I never refer to my wife as the 'admiral', as a progressive, well adjusted male I just say that "I have to run it by the war department" when SWMBO must be consulted.

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What is really killing sailing is the focus on fully crewed boats

 

 

Join CHESSS! www.chbaysss.org

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CR59, yup CB350.. well spotted! looked like this when i bought it... it was a fun build!

 

9776479b.jpg

 

Note life jacket and laser sail and lines hanging in background :)

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Caferacer59 brings up an interesting demographic shift point. Back in the day people did races not just for the race, but for the socialization, the puffery, the bullshitting, etc. Now we have people who want to enter online, go do the race, pack up and get out. And not be involved in the social part. Just like going to Walmart, or getting your car fixed.

 

I still can't quite get my head around this lifestyle choice. I get it that the world is too busy, or people are more involved in many more activities than they used to back in the day.

 

How do we accommodate those that just want a start, a finish, and be done with it?

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OK, let's totally derail this into motorcycles.

 

Overdraft, did you completely delete the battery and starter and convert that 350 into kick start only? Way cool! I bet that shed some pounds, and it would be sacrilege to simply poke a starter button on such a clean, classic beast!

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True about the social aspect. I recall races where cruising sailors and powerboats "entered" in the sense they were all going to show up and drink with us in a huge raft at the finish. Now it is like pro sports - a job.

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ya, starter gone... kick only. I was going to delete the battery altogether but I found a guy who made a contactless ignition for the bike and it needed some juice to get started so I put in a minimal battery just to support that. not nearly enough juice to run a starter! to give you an idea of the size, it's under the bumpstop of the seat...

 

dd6cdd48.jpg

 

rear brake detail just for fun...

 

0c1daab2.jpg

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I thouht OP wase a trolle lookeng foure 25 respounses or so.

 

:)

pretty much :-)

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

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finally a good post with good ideas......no need to reject this........

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

This coming from a guy who's name is a also one of the sea ray models. Finishing the post with A LOT more females. It's easy to see your idea of why and how to grow sailing.

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Are you saying these folks don't know how to throw a race party and even your bowman has refused the peroxide GILF waiting for them at the bar?

 

getImage.gif?ID=100006193

 

Damn.

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Now we have people who want to enter online, go do the race, pack up and get out. And not be involved in the social part. Just like going to Walmart, or getting your car fixed.

 

I still can't quite get my head around this lifestyle choice.

 

How do we accommodate those that just want a start, a finish, and be done with it?

 

First of all, my wife isn't the admiral, she is the boss, social director, or treasurer, whichever is approriate for the situation. Yes, I am whipped and I enjoy fantastic benefits because of it. We've been together 25 years, it has been one hell of a journey, and, hopefully, we got a long way to go.

 

Secondly, I resemble the above quote. It isn't that I am too busy to hang out and socialize. It is that I got that out of my system when I was in my twenties. Bullshitting w/ a bunch of drunken sailors doesn't interest me anymore, been there done that. The competition on the race course is fun and the draw, I don't need or care for any of the rest of that stuff. When I want to bullshit with a bunch of drunks I will get together with my close friends, only a few of which are sailors.

 

BTW: I feel well accomodated now. I race, I go home, I look up the results on the interwebs the next day, it is all good.

 

I now only belong to a paper club because that is all I need. In the future, tho, I may joing the regular YC that has facilities, docks, boat storage, showers, etc. when the time comes that I can make good use of it. But my days of hanging out in bars and partying are long gone.

 

Am I killing sailing? bummer. I have to admit, the racing fleets are getting smaller. But, if it knocks down the crowds in the good anchorages, too, then I am ok with it.

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

Licke thisse?

 

http://figawi.com/

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

This coming from a guy who's name is a also one of the sea ray models. Finishing the post with A LOT more females. It's easy to see your idea of how and why to grow sailing.

I'm actually not familiar with sea ray models. My screen name has far more to do with enjoying the benefits of solar rays. Do you have a problem with getting a more equal gender balance in the sport? A couple of the best boats I have sailed on have been women owned, and I much prefer mixed gender crews. If you enjoy gay sailing, good for you. To each their own.

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

Licke thisse?

 

http://figawi.com/

I've never done fagawi, but I hear it's a good event. If there's a lot of people in sailboats participating together and laughing and smiling afterwards, I think that's what we should strive for.

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competitive Sailing as getting killed by cost, IMO. That and the reliability in outboards are changing the game. Nowadays If you own a j/120 and god forbid, your sails are two seasons old, your already a loser. I don't have the money to keep up with the joneses and as much as I love sailing, I do it on other peoples boats now. I traded in my sails for a 86 Whaler and let someone else get called Cap.

 

I still get to sail 30-40 times a year if I want, and pay under 2k for the privilege and keep up the old boat. Our club used to be filled with beautiful sailing yachts. The harbour is now 70% motor boats. And the argument about outboards is long dead. The days when engines would just blow up or not start are over.

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What the OP cites isn't killing sailing. Sailing is healthy. What is sick are big parts of racing in the US.

 

 

What's hurting racing is too much sameness. The old ways of doing things. Old people holding on to yesterday. Stupid windward leewards only. Having to be perfect at the start, hiking your guts out upwind, having stupid expensive sails, being on boats that are considered fast, but lacking any comfort at all. Taking way too much time. Boring parties. Too many rules and uptight officials.

 

What's needed is an injection of fun. More things like three bridge fiasco, hot Rum. And A LOT more females.

This coming from a guy who's name is a also one of the sea ray models. Finishing the post with A LOT more females. It's easy to see your idea of how and why to grow sailing.

I'm actually not familiar with sea ray models. My screen name has far more to do with enjoying the benefits of solar rays. Do you have a problem with getting a more equal gender balance in the sport? A couple of the best boats I have sailed on have been women owned, and I much prefer mixed gender crews. If you enjoy gay sailing, good for you. To each their own.

 

hey, thast uncaulled foure, juste becauze KE shaaves hisse balles dossente macke hime gay! NTTATWAT

 

Hese goode sailore to. :)

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Wow that's the way you want to go, you have no idea. Coaching a woman's Rolex team, always having at least one and usually two female crew on the boats I race on, and working with a foundation that has a bunch of inner city girls and boys learning sailing and becoming instructors is how I grow sailing. You're sound like your looking for action at great party's. Sorry no quote, not for you snaggs, for sea ray guy

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Wow that's the way you want to go, you have no idea. Coaching a woman's Rolex team, always having at least one and usually two female crew on the boats I race on, and working with a foundation that has a bunch of inner city girls and boys learning sailing and becoming instructors is how I grow sailing. You're sound like your looking for action at great party's. Sorry no quote, not for you snaggs, for sea ray guy

Impressive credentials. Well done. And you have no idea either about me, but I will freely admit to enjoying the benefit of meeting smart, athletic women through participation based sports. You keep mentioning Sea Rays, and I'm thinking I should maybe get one of those too, but they aren't all that popular on the left coast. Do you have a preferred gold chain provider? I hear that's a requisite for sea ray owners. When in Rome, and all that.

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post-101450-0-44139700-1490053998_thumb.jpgGeez, I still miss my bike...had it for several years in the USVI, and loved blasting around the winding hills, but parked it after a VERY close call :-( Re: sailing being kinda killed off, my feeling is that there are a few fundamentals working against the sport. 1. It's usually pretty expensive - yeah, you certainly can minimize the damage by buying used and doing a lot of the maintenance yourself, but that points to #2. It take a pretty big investment in time. I find that an awful lot of folks these days are very much over-scheduled, and struggle to devote a full day to a hobby, let alone the time for maintenance. This also affects getting crew. 3. There's a lot of competition from other sports & activities now, many of which are "extreme" and high adrenalin activities (does kiteboarding qualify as sailing?). Mountain biking is another. As I look around down here, I see a shitload of people paddling around on SUP's (so new people ARE getting out on the water), while beach cats lie moldering away in the bushes. So #4 is convenience. Even a friggin' Sunfish is a PITA to lug around and set up compared to an SUP. And your target, #5, I think most yacht clubs seem to want to be exclusive rather than inclusive...but I don't think that's really new. Anyway, in George Town, Exuma a few weeks back there were a LOT of boats of various sizes and designs, mostly sailed by couples in their 40's, 50's and 60's.

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Hawk GT.jpgGeez, I still miss my bike...had it for several years in the USVI, and loved blasting around the winding hills, but parked it after a VERY close call :-( Re: sailing being kinda killed off, my feeling is that there are a few fundamentals working against the sport. 1. It's usually pretty expensive - yeah, you certainly can minimize the damage by buying used and doing a lot of the maintenance yourself, but that points to #2. It take a pretty big investment in time. I find that an awful lot of folks these days are very much over-scheduled, and struggle to devote a full day to a hobby, let alone the time for maintenance. This also affects getting crew. 3. There's a lot of competition from other sports & activities now, many of which are "extreme" and high adrenalin activities (does kiteboarding qualify as sailing?). Mountain biking is another. As I look around down here, I see a shitload of people paddling around on SUP's (so new people ARE getting out on the water), while beach cats lie moldering away in the bushes. So #4 is convenience. Even a friggin' Sunfish is a PITA to lug around and set up compared to an SUP. And your target, #5, I think most yacht clubs seem to want to be exclusive rather than inclusive...but I don't think that's really new. Anyway, in George Town, Exuma a few weeks back there were a LOT of boats of various sizes and designs, mostly sailed by couples in their 40's, 50's and 60's.

Your point about SUP is right on. Tons of people doing it. Easy to rent. Events are huge and fun. Anyone who thinks there is any sailing party that is fun ought to come to a SUP event out here in SoCal and see the difference.

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600-01633246en.jpg

 

Here's the truth of it all as has been pointed out ...those thousands of older cute couples that sail their race on their nicely equipped boats rarely asks for young bloods to join them. Single and double handed racing is in full vogue. Most of these folks over 45 rarely come in contact with younger people who would want to learn to sail. Their yacht clubs have few folks under 40 except for children in optis. The boats with younger crews rarely set up their friends on other boats. The afterparty holds no interest to under 30 crowd and especially millennial who could be stepping up. The days of bringing a 6 pack to the dock and asking for ride is rarely accomplished as most sailors are buried in their own personal shit, are more than willing to buy a new piece of leveraging equipment that could replace another crew and can't find their way out without a cell phone.

 

I challenge anyone here to invite younger folks to cruise, ride and eventually race on their boats. Teach them good corinthian sprit and how much fun it is to sail as a team. If we don't get them sailing as we have known, it will be gone.

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

 

Wow, a hipster on SA. A first?

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CR59, yup CB350.. well spotted! looked like this when i bought it... it was a fun build!

 

9776479b.jpg

 

Note life jacket and laser sail and lines hanging in background :)

We went around Europe on one of those back in the seventies.

 

Good bike, fine tourer for two ( for its day)

 

On the Admiral thing, I thought you couldn't be an admiral unless you have a fleet .....

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

Wow, a hipster on SA. A first?

 

I thouht wespey wase hipstere?

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On the Admiral thing, I thought you couldn't be an admiral unless you have a fleet .....

 

 

 

You are right! I pick up my second this week.

 

article-bmw-r-ninet-racer-57f2be47d26b2.

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Non web based race entry is a problem at our club. The old school don't like change. With regatta network and paypal there is no reason to need a cheque based system.

 

I am part of a group working to bring our club into the information age. If it annoys you, be part of the solution... Bitching and doing nothing is way worse than the wife be called "admiral". Those old salts created the club we now enjoy. give'em a break huh?

this.

 

If you want to be one of the ones that just pays, races, and leaves in a volunteer based club, we should charge you double.

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CR59, yup CB350.. well spotted! looked like this when i bought it... it was a fun build!

 

9776479b.jpg

 

Note life jacket and laser sail and lines hanging in background :)

We went around Europe on one of those back in the seventies.

 

Good bike, fine tourer for two ( for its day)

 

On the Admiral thing, I thought you couldn't be an admiral unless you have a fleet .....

She has a fleet...Your boat and you.

Both of which must obey orders.🍻

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black jack, that r nine t racer is so cool eh? saw one at the beemer shop last weekend and thought it was custom...

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Our club is one step up from a paper club. The majority of our members belong soley so they can race. Social activities usually have rather poor turnout and my son (19) is one of two members under 35ish.

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(BTW that is NOT what is really killing sailing. What is really killing sailing is the focus on fully crewed boats. Look around sometime next time you're out and count the number of boats with just a man and his wife on them.)

 

 

How the hell are fully crewed boats killing sailing??? So getting MORE people out on the water is bad for the sport? WTF?

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That and the reliability in outboards are changing the game.

 

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but how does a more reliable outboard kill sailing or change games???

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(BTW that is NOT what is really killing sailing. What is really killing sailing is the focus on fully crewed boats. Look around sometime next time you're out and count the number of boats with just a man and his wife on them.)

 

 

How the hell are fully crewed boats killing sailing??? So getting MORE people out on the water is bad for the sport? WTF?

 

 

The point is that it's getting more difficult to actually GET a full crew.

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unShirley-

 

I'm not really seeing the "drunken sailor" at parties anymore, the parties seem pretty tame.

It's a bummer that you don't socialize afterwards. I usually seek out the experienced racers for advice and lessons learned at the after-party.

 

The after-party isn't quite dead yet. Every time I chair a race I have people asking me if there's going to be a social afterwards.

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Sadly, it was beauty that killed the beast.

 

IMG-20161016-WA0004.jpg

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Apparently, everything is killing sailing. I find that hard to believe. I enjoy my time on the water more than ever before!

 

I guess if other people are enjoying sailing how they want to and you enjoy or see it differently, it threatens your enjoyment. Ok, I think I'm starting to understand.

 

So what we really need to do to save sailing is to push our ideals of sailing onto others? Possibly, force them to enjoy it correctly?

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You guys are bonkers, I sent this up the flag pole being snarky about some harmless droll conversation, and kind of for a laugh.

 

Here is my personal experience, I bought a 4ksb in really nice condition for 2k, that in my book has a ton of style for what it is (1965 Ariel). I got a slip for 1500 a year 20 minutes from my house. The management at the marina have been great, they keep an eye on our boats, are pretty chill and help sponsor the local racing in a bunch of little ways. Welcoming, while at the same time running a business seriously. Year 1 I spent learning how to sail, and then joined the beer can thing on wednesdays, ALL of those guys have been a help, laughed at my mistakes, and provide solid advice on how to do better. We all have a beer and a burger after each race on the marina deck, its quick, last no more than an hour. I have been invited on other bigger, badder boats with solid crews and I took them up on it and had fun and learned more.

 

Now there is a big dichotomy here, the group I am with is pretty mellow, I think 10 miles south in Annapolis its a whole different world that would be foreign to me, maybe I am projecting but i suspect the nicer boats, more serious competitor and the general vibe, would scream your out of your league if I tried to do what I do in B'more down there. All that being said, I have my own cool little ship, use it all the time and spend what to me is a palatable amount of money annually. I found sailing very easy to get into because it doesn't cost a lot and a bunch of people I didn't know have been quite encouraging. And I know there are so many pro's on here that are in a completely different orbit, so the state of sailing as i see it has nothing to do with their concerns which are bigger and more professional in nature. I will return to a more lurking posture, I do get a kick out this site and reading what some of you massively experienced guys/women share is a cool window into a world I am not a part of. Anyways, novice sailing is alive and well as i am not the only guy who has found affordable entry into the "sport". I still despise cliche conversation however.

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Why go back to lurking? I'm really enjoying your fresh insight.

 

Annapolis Yacht Club "is what it is." They're more serious about their racing, they're more steeped in tradition and they're more expensive. So what? They're only one club. They are actually more the outlier than the rule. No grudge against them, they provide a product that their members want. That's what they're supposed to do.

 

9 miles further south is the West River Sailing Club- my club. We are much more like the group that you race with now. Our recent past Commodore refused to wear the blazer because he felt that it alienated potential new members. As it is, we only break the jackets out once per year for the general meeting. It's all very casual and people are usually happy to share their "secret sauce" or take you on as crew so that you can learn for yourself.

 

It's very encouraging to hear you say that you found sailing affordable and easy to get into. There's a huge misconception among non-sailors that there are huge cost and social barriers to entering sailing.

You really need to share your story with non-sailors who have thought about it and shied away.

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unShirley - From the RC/club end, enough people like you and I won't show up to run anything and neither will anyone else. For that kind of thing, you need paid staff. Volunteers that see all the boats and racers headed home while they are still getting their own boats tied up and cleaned up won't be back.

The other guy that said old people wreck everything with W/L courses - that isn't OLD people. Us OLD people are the ones that raced all kinds of random courses around government marks, did all the long distance races, and are still confused how W/L Opti/Laser racing spread to big boats. F-Y-I

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

 

Wow, a hipster on SA. A first?

 

I thouht wespey wase hipstere?

 

Iye stant correctet

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Hey Folks, New Member but long time lurker and my very first post. I agree with DavidBouy as far as the sky is falling on our beloved sport, (not). In my 40 some years in this sport (racing and cruising) I would suggest that Yacht Clubs have always Ebbed & Flowed. And, whenever membership is ebbing we look for obvious reasons. It is easy to point to skyrocketing cost of new sport boats, but in my experience there have always been expensive new boats. I don't own one and never will. To much depreciation for my taste anyway. Plenty of inexpensive options out there and whether or not it's 4KT PHRF Boat or a J-24, you can sail and race to your hearts content if you want, for minimal expense. Money isn't the issue. The rising cost of beer however, might be a future concern.

 

I have been to "Saving Sailing Clinics" and observed our own Club's "angst and concerns" regarding perpetuity. I always suggest to those anxious souls whom complain the sky is falling on our sport. No body grabbed me by the collar and dragged me sailing. OK, Mom and Dad a few times. But, the interest was in me and I took the initiative to buy a boat, learn to sail and join a club-s. I resent however, feeling like I am letting the sport down by not inviting every Tom, Dick and Harriett to sail with me!

 

I formally sailed with a crew of guys and had a ball racing. Later on I found my joy in single handing. I still prefer single handing or even short handed sailing over preparing for a full crew. It's my main emotional release and relaxation. If not a single other person sails, so be it. It's their loss as far as I am concerned.

 

Sorry, still looking for good Tits to post.

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I still can't quite get my head around this lifestyle choice. I get it that the world is too busy, or people are more involved in many more activities than they used to back in the day.

 

How do we accommodate those that just want a start, a finish, and be done with it?

As someone else said - been there, done that, not as interested anymore.

 

Accommodate us by... having a start, a finish, and not bad-mouthing us when we are happily done with it? (That's nor really directed at you Glenn, I know you are one of those looking under every rock and stone for solutions...). I think Mid had a point - instead of trying to rebuild racing participation by restoring what was, accept what is (the new paradigm) - and work with that.

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More inexpensive fun cafe racers and less way expensive and exclusive NASCAR? (bear with me, I'm trying for a metaphor here).

 

For me, the cafe racers were the frostbite dinghies and smaller one-designs. No one could outspend you (much), it was a talent show not a spaceship development program. And in the 25-35' range, you could race your cruising boat, or cruise your racing boat. Sailing, and racing, had a "middle class" and was relatively affordable.

 

Nowadays, the space program is fun(?) to watch, but few get to go into space. One-designs are losing population. Beercans can't decide if they are cruisers or spaceships, the latter dis the cruisers, who drop out . Frostbite fleets way smaller (I'm thinking of M'head here, don't know about LIS).

 

Maybe community programs are the newer wave? We need new blood. May be a generational problem? Golf and tennis are shrinking too, and neither of them is nearly as expensive as owning/racing a boat.

 

Money issue for sure, but not at the bottom end. More of a time issue all around, for a lot of sports requiring a long attention span.

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Start - finish - go home.
Hire someone to do that. No way I would be arsed to use my boat, my gas, and my time for that.

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

Wow, a hipster on SA. A first?

 

I thouht wespey wase hipstere?

 

Iye stant correctet

 

For your information did you know that a group of 3 or more hipsters is called a "Glare"

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

 

 

 

Wow, a hipster on SA. A first?

I thouht wespey wase hipstere?

Iye stant correctet

For your information did you know that a group of 3 or more hipsters is called a "Glare"

Thank you for that useful piece of information.

 

Btw, love your bike. Not aa rider myself but have great appreciation for late 60's early 70's models

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Sounds like the rest of the country pretty much sucks as far as sailing is concerned. Sure glad I live in the PNW, where I can fly my old Dacron sails on my beater tub, mix it up with the big boys in beercan or PHRF races, and party with the crowd afterward (if I choose to). I and dozens of other skippers in the area have introduced more people to sailing than we can count, and many of them end up on the water dicing it up on their own boats ... full of newbies they introduce to sailing.

 

Sure, we have our share of snooty yacht clubs here with octogenarians throwing out sailing buzz words over their gin & tonics, but there's absolutely no need to become part of that scene. If someone has ANY desire to sail here and is willing to put just a little effort into seeking opportunities, they're on the water as often as they want.

 

I kind of like our sailing bubble up here. We should build a wall or something to make sure it doesn't get spoiled.

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You guys are bonkers, I sent this up the flag pole being snarky about some harmless droll conversation, and kind of for a laugh.

 

Here is my personal experience, I bought a 4ksb in really nice condition for 2k, that in my book has a ton of style for what it is (1965 Ariel). I got a slip for 1500 a year 20 minutes from my house. The management at the marina have been great, they keep an eye on our boats, are pretty chill and help sponsor the local racing in a bunch of little ways. Welcoming, while at the same time running a business seriously. Year 1 I spent learning how to sail, and then joined the beer can thing on wednesdays, ALL of those guys have been a help, laughed at my mistakes, and provide solid advice on how to do better. We all have a beer and a burger after each race on the marina deck, its quick, last no more than an hour. I have been invited on other bigger, badder boats with solid crews and I took them up on it and had fun and learned more.

 

Now there is a big dichotomy here, the group I am with is pretty mellow, I think 10 miles south in Annapolis its a whole different world that would be foreign to me, maybe I am projecting but i suspect the nicer boats, more serious competitor and the general vibe, would scream your out of your league if I tried to do what I do in B'more down there. All that being said, I have my own cool little ship, use it all the time and spend what to me is a palatable amount of money annually. I found sailing very easy to get into because it doesn't cost a lot and a bunch of people I didn't know have been quite encouraging. And I know there are so many pro's on here that are in a completely different orbit, so the state of sailing as i see it has nothing to do with their concerns which are bigger and more professional in nature. I will return to a more lurking posture, I do get a kick out this site and reading what some of you massively experienced guys/women share is a cool window into a world I am not a part of. Anyways, novice sailing is alive and well as i am not the only guy who has found affordable entry into the "sport". I still despise cliche conversation however.

 

Well, you just have to take the bull by the horns, buck up and deal with it one day at a time. No need to get your panties in a bunch, just roll with the punches and let the chips fall where they may. It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game, and there's no time like the present to make lemonaid from the hand you've been dealt. Ask not what the sport can do for you, but rather what you can do to make the few and the proud to be the best of the best that they can be. Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead, man battle stations and prepare the depth charges! Bash the bloody binnacle with the belaying bobbin!

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More inexpensive fun cafe racers and less way expensive and exclusive NASCAR? (bear with me, I'm trying for a metaphor here).

 

For me, the cafe racers were the frostbite dinghies and smaller one-designs. No one could outspend you (much), it was a talent show not a spaceship development program. And in the 25-35' range, you could race your cruising boat, or cruise your racing boat. Sailing, and racing, had a "middle class" and was relatively affordable.

 

Nowadays, the space program is fun(?) to watch, but few get to go into space. One-designs are losing population. Beercans can't decide if they are cruisers or spaceships, the latter dis the cruisers, who drop out . Frostbite fleets way smaller (I'm thinking of M'head here, don't know about LIS).

 

Maybe community programs are the newer wave? We need new blood. May be a generational problem? Golf and tennis are shrinking too, and neither of them is nearly as expensive as owning/racing a boat.

 

Money issue for sure, but not at the bottom end. More of a time issue all around, for a lot of sports requiring a long attention span.

If a club has the resources to provide a big boat/Ocean racing program for young dinghy sailors I think this would be a great idea.A fifteen year old kid that might be into a bunch of sports...well sailing is going up against all league sports/ individual sports/ and the very popular XGames menu. A lot to choose from.

 

If a young kid can make the connection and see a path from dinghy's to 'those radical' AC boats, the dream can seem more of a possibility. Even though this Grand Prix type selling will be open only to the best of the best, this part of the sport excites a lot of people and must look pretty intriguing to the young sailor/dreamer.

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You guys are bonkers, I sent this up the flag pole being snarky about some harmless droll conversation, and kind of for a laugh.

 

Here is my personal experience, I bought a 4ksb in really nice condition for 2k, that in my book has a ton of style for what it is (1965 Ariel). I got a slip for 1500 a year 20 minutes from my house. The management at the marina have been great, they keep an eye on our boats, are pretty chill and help sponsor the local racing in a bunch of little ways. Welcoming, while at the same time running a business seriously. Year 1 I spent learning how to sail, and then joined the beer can thing on wednesdays, ALL of those guys have been a help, laughed at my mistakes, and provide solid advice on how to do better. We all have a beer and a burger after each race on the marina deck, its quick, last no more than an hour. I have been invited on other bigger, badder boats with solid crews and I took them up on it and had fun and learned more.

 

Now there is a big dichotomy here, the group I am with is pretty mellow, I think 10 miles south in Annapolis its a whole different world that would be foreign to me, maybe I am projecting but i suspect the nicer boats, more serious competitor and the general vibe, would scream your out of your league if I tried to do what I do in B'more down there. All that being said, I have my own cool little ship, use it all the time and spend what to me is a palatable amount of money annually. I found sailing very easy to get into because it doesn't cost a lot and a bunch of people I didn't know have been quite encouraging. And I know there are so many pro's on here that are in a completely different orbit, so the state of sailing as i see it has nothing to do with their concerns which are bigger and more professional in nature. I will return to a more lurking posture, I do get a kick out this site and reading what some of you massively experienced guys/women share is a cool window into a world I am not a part of. Anyways, novice sailing is alive and well as i am not the only guy who has found affordable entry into the "sport". I still despise cliche conversation however.

 

 

Hey B'more -

 

 

North of Naps, south of Naps, in Naps there is tons of racing. Hard core or chill, big boats or small, one hull or many, OD or ratings. If ya can't find what you like in this neck of the woods you either ain't looking or you just ain't gonna be liking racing.

 

Oh and for those slagging on AYC - and I ain't a member - I gotta say they do a damn fine job of RC and promoting the sport and even there you can find a wide range of racing fun, right down to the chill kind.

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On the topic of the OP, I don't think the lame-ass old man speak ("admiral", etc) is necessarily killing sailing -- but I would agree that it doesn't really fall in with millennials. I think the baby boomer vs. millennial clash is a big issue right now, both getting young people like myself onto boats (crewing) or getting the older guys to consider younger crew.

 

That's just from what I see coming from my local sailing scene.

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black jack, that r nine t racer is so cool eh? saw one at the beemer shop last weekend and thought it was custom...

 

 

 

They are just coming to market. It has been a year in waiting. This bike could be considered the resurrection of the old r90s/100s except that the techs at BMW actually work on them. They have been quite lacking when i have brought my r100 in and now i must do nearly all my own work including part ordering.

 

DSCN2471%20(640x480).jpg

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Just to be clear, the title of my post is employing the use of hyperbole, which is a vehicle used to grandstand for attention and not grounded in reasonable fact. I'm pretty sure my aforementioned bitch isn't killing sailing. Also, those guys are fine, and I'm a polite guy, i don't give 'em shit if that conversation happily fills otherwise empty space, I just don't now how to respond....but my little rant contains a kernel of social commentary, nothing more. And I'll drink one of those drinks quietly if it's handed to me, they are just a bit sweet and tend to upset my stomach, I am a delicate flower.

 

"Hyperbole?" "HYPERBOLE?" what the hell kind of word is hyperbole? And you call yourself a Baltimoron? I'm a proud son of Charm City and I would never use a word like "hyperbole." That's one of those words like "auto de-fe" or "supercilious" that doesn't belong in our vocabulary. God, you must have gone to Poly and moved on to Hopkins. I bet you never even tasted Natty Boh. Pull your head outta your ass, hon, and do what Brother Ajax sez....haul your boat and your butt down to West River and sail with the Great Unwashed...and that's not a "hyperbole." :D

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Don't know bout your shit-ass club el negra modelo , but our shit up in this here bitch is tight! (tie_eet!!)

 

cycparty tight 3

cycparty tight 2

cycparty tight

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:)

I don't know who put that video on YouTube but the name of the song is Volunteers, not Revolution. Sheesh.

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Don't know bout your shit-ass club el negra modelo , but our shit up in this here bitch is tight! (tie_eet!!)

 

 

you sail with the kardashians?

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Nice rambling thread. As far as bikes, I've had them all brandwise, and R and K BWMs, but my all time favorite is still my BMW F650GS that I've ridden everywhere, and a lot of that off road.

DSC01331-S.jpg

 

In fact my ultimate vacation was riding the F bike from Virginia to La Paz, Baja California Sur, sailing for a week in the Gulf, then riding back.

 

DSC00394-M.jpg

 

DSC00434-M.jpg

 

DSC01215-S.jpg

 

Yep, sailing and riding...maybe that's a way to not kill sailing??

 

Cheers, Greg

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answers.jpg

yep, you can always tell who the sailor is...

 

post-14713-0-27061000-1490157020_thumb.jpg

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Something I've noticed that could become a big problem in the future is that there aren't many young guys and girls getting involved in the industry. Sailmaking is assuredly not taught in school, nor does it have the attractiveness of becoming an aeronautical engineer...also more female participation is needed.

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answers.jpg

yep, you can always tell who the sailor is...

attachicon.gifdownload.jpg

I like the Wiley cartoon, especially if you look at the path less travelled. If you squint, it also would seem to end going over the same cliff.

 

Clever.

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