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Jackdaw

Infuckers on the Fareast 28r

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

 

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

 

Anyone?

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Tried to PM you, but said you weren't able to receive messages. If ur in the states, perhaps we can link up to chat about it. Send me a pm with contact info off this grid

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Looks to me like it would be a simple matter- to rig the inhauler more aft simply place a piece of dyneema between the mast base and the block that the antal ring is on.

 

P5070082.jpg

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Looks to me like it would be a simple matter- to rig the inhauler more aft simply place a piece of dyneema between the mast base and the block that the antal ring is on.

 

P5070082.jpg

No that will not solve it, because it needs to be a hard point (or two points!) that the infucker can pull hard and inward against. Ideally it is directly inboard of the clew's poistion when trimmed. But with it coming off that block at the mast base, it is WAY forward of the clew, and wants to pull the clew forward as much or more as inward. It's really more of a forefucker when rigged like that.

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

 

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

 

Anyone?

 

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

 

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

 

Anyone?

 

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

 

 

This is my thought too. Adding a u-bolt through the cabin side as place to rig an inhauler setup that would be directly in-line with the clew.

 

The sheeting angle looks pretty tight, I'm not sure if there's much to be gained here. Don't know the boat so I'm mostly talking out of my ass.

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

Anyone?

 

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

Hi thx for jumping in.

 

Yea I though about a two-point system like you describe on the cabin top, but that would take some drillin'.

 

I'm curious about your comment about 'designing the sails for no inhaulers'... what does that mean?

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

Anyone?

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

Hi thx for jumping in.

 

Yea I though about a two-point system like you describe on the cabin top, but that would take some drillin'.

 

I'm curious about your comment about 'designing the sails for no inhaulers'... what does that mean?

 

 

Sails built for boats with inhaulers (or super tight sheeting angles) tend to be flatter in the back end down low.

 

Yeah... its always nerve wracking to apply drill to fibreglass.. can't think of any other good solution though.

 

Which 28R are you working on out of curiosity?

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

Anyone?

 

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

Hi thx for jumping in.

Yea I though about a two-point system like you describe on the cabin top, but that would take some drillin'.

I'm curious about your comment about 'designing the sails for no inhaulers'... what does that mean?

Sails built for boats with inhaulers (or super tight sheeting angles) tend to be flatter in the back end down low.

 

Yeah... its always nerve wracking to apply drill to fibreglass.. can't think of any other good solution though.

 

Which 28R are you working on out of curiosity?

Re the sail cut, makes sense. I wasn't thinking about if 'backwards' like that! ;^)

 

Re the boat, the one owned by gjbike in San Antonio.

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

Anyone?

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

Hi thx for jumping in.

Yea I though about a two-point system like you describe on the cabin top, but that would take some drillin'.

I'm curious about your comment about 'designing the sails for no inhaulers'... what does that mean?

Sails built for boats with inhaulers (or super tight sheeting angles) tend to be flatter in the back end down low.

 

Yeah... its always nerve wracking to apply drill to fibreglass.. can't think of any other good solution though.

 

Which 28R are you working on out of curiosity?

Re the sail cut, makes sense. I wasn't thinking about if 'backwards' like that! ;^)

 

Re the boat, the one owned by gjbike in San Antonio.

 

 

There is keelboat sailing in San Antonio? It's a two hour drive down to Body o' Christ, that's a haul, too.

 

It's YUUGE state, I get it. I knew people who'd drive 3 hours to go to a movie in Missouri.

 

Huh. San Antonio.

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The sailing is on Canyon Lake which is 60 miles northeast of San Antonio. Reasonably active racing scene. People come from Austin and Corpus Christi routinely. Year round racing. Nice lake with good wind most days.

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OK kids, anyone sort out the infuckers on the 28r?

The genoa tracks are down on the deck and wide so it needs them. But the factory setup seem to have them

come off the mast base, which seems ridiculously far forward.

Anyone?

When we first got the boat we thought about adding them... but we ended up designing the sails for no inhaulers and have been happy with the performance without them.

 

I was toying adding a through fitting to the side of the coach house, this way you would not have to alter the clew height a ton, would limit the inhaul but I don't think you would want it more than that anyways.

 

Hi thx for jumping in.

Yea I though about a two-point system like you describe on the cabin top, but that would take some drillin'.

I'm curious about your comment about 'designing the sails for no inhaulers'... what does that mean?

 

Sails built for boats with inhaulers (or super tight sheeting angles) tend to be flatter in the back end down low.

 

Yeah... its always nerve wracking to apply drill to fibreglass.. can't think of any other good solution though.

 

Which 28R are you working on out of curiosity?

 

Re the sail cut, makes sense. I wasn't thinking about if 'backwards' like that! ;^)

 

Re the boat, the one owned by gjbike in San Antonio.

 

There is keelboat sailing in San Antonio? It's a two hour drive down to Body o' Christ, that's a haul, too.

 

It's YUUGE state, I get it. I knew people who'd drive 3 hours to go to a movie in Missouri.

 

Huh. San Antonio.

 

Well the Texans have never seen a river that they didn't think would make a better lake.

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i would like to echo the inhauler question. request to please share your info on how you have executed this on your boat and also observations on performance improvements post installation. indeed i am reluctant to drill the coach roof and deck with more holes than absolutely required.

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I installed the inhaulers this last weekend and had my first sail with them on Saturday.  I put 2 Harken Bullseye fairleads 14 inches apart with the furthest 22 inches from the  edge of cabin top/bulkhead. I put a Harken cam cleat with bullseye  2 inches from edge. Used a 14mm  low friction ring and  4mm  covered dyneema line. The ring turned out to be too small to run line in twice and still leave room for the 6mm jib sheet so I only ran the inhauler line once through the ring. There is no friction on the inhauler line or fairleads  exept when you make adjustments to them which is not very often. The friction is only on the ring when you tack when the jib sheet runs through it. I sailed in 10 to 12 kt winds and what bringing in the lead about 3 or 4 inches with the inhaulers did was help to flatten the leach at the top  and improve overall sail shape when close hauled. There is a lot of force in high wind on those fairleads. I used  1 inch SS washers under each bolt but still makes me nervous. May go back and epoxy some 1/4 inch fiberglass board  below those to spread the load. 

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6 hours ago, gjbike said:

I installed the inhaulers this last weekend and had my first sail with them on Saturday.  I put 2 Harken Bullseye fairleads 14 inches apart with the furthest 22 inches from the  edge of cabin top/bulkhead. I put a Harken cam cleat with bullseye  2 inches from edge. Used a 14mm  low friction ring and  4mm  covered dyneema line. The ring turned out to be too small to run line in twice and still leave room for the 6mm jib sheet so I only ran the inhauler line once through the ring. There is no friction on the inhauler line or fairleads  exept when you make adjustments to them which is not very often. The friction is only on the ring when you tack when the jib sheet runs through it. I sailed in 10 to 12 kt winds and what bringing in the lead about 3 or 4 inches with the inhaulers did was help to flatten the leach at the top  and improve overall sail shape when close hauled. There is a lot of force in high wind on those fairleads. I used  1 inch SS washers under each bolt but still makes me nervous. May go back and epoxy some 1/4 inch fiberglass board  below those to spread the load. 

Pix?

Why run line through the ring more than once?

Consider replacing those SS washers with G10 plate?

 

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5 hours ago, gjbike said:

Here is photo.  G10 is what I meant by fiberglass board

IMG_2259 (750x454).jpg

Why not remove the dead end at the fairlead and finish it around the ring?

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This set -up allows the inhauler to follow the jib car on the track on the deck.  If the ring was fixed it would always pull from  the forward  fairlead.  It also spreads the load to two points.  

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6 hours ago, gjbike said:

This set -up allows the inhauler to follow the jib car on the track on the deck.  If the ring was fixed it would always pull from  the forward  fairlead.  It also spreads the load to two points.  

The two lines thru one hole doesn’t seem like a happy solution 

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On 11/8/2017 at 9:36 AM, gjbike said:

This set -up allows the inhauler to follow the jib car on the track on the deck.  If the ring was fixed it would always pull from  the forward  fairlead.  It also spreads the load to two points.  

That is a pretty poor setup as the load on the forward and aft points are far greater than on the inhauler ring - while at the same time giving up purchase - 

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Putting the ring through both the top and bottom lines changes neither the purchase nor  the load on the fairleads. The dyneema line is more than adequate to handle the load with a 4000lb working load rating. I do worry about the fairleads which will probably see 100lbs or more each. The jib sheet force is shared between the 2 fairleads, the jib car and the  winch.  Variants of this setup are common on many sportboats.   A number of the FE28R's are using this setup and have not seen reports of any failures yet on FE28R boards. The tackline for the spinnaker is held by a single cam cleat and it's 2 10x24x3 SS bolts . Under load I cannot bring the line in without the winch so these little bits of hardware are something else.

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On 11/9/2017 at 11:40 PM, gjbike said:

Putting the ring through both the top and bottom lines changes neither the purchase nor  the load on the fairleads. The dyneema line is more than adequate to handle the load with a 4000lb working load rating. I do worry about the fairleads which will probably see 100lbs or more each. The jib sheet force is shared between the 2 fairleads, the jib car and the  winch.  Variants of this setup are common on many sportboats.   A number of the FE28R's are using this setup and have not seen reports of any failures yet on FE28R boards. The tackline for the spinnaker is held by a single cam cleat and it's 2 10x24x3 SS bolts . Under load I cannot bring the line in without the winch so these little bits of hardware are something else.

You need to take a look at loads in a vector diagram - that will make you change your mind about that setup

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On my 28r, we run both lines thru the ring which I think improves the purchase. Nevertheless, that’s the way the class set up was rigged. It will undoubtedly be more effective when we recut the sail so the clew is higher. We have had no problem running the three lines thru the ring

39D8785D-28C5-4BAB-948D-A3CAFC119834.jpeg

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Normally I would agree with Gbike on the amount of purchase associated with running only one line of the inhauler thru the ring, but it seems to me that you do get the benefit of more purchase by running both lines thru the ring.  Not having an engineering degree, I’m certainly open to input from more knowledgeable folk. 

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Well, found out this weekend the set up is not up to the task.  Bent the bolt on the foremost fairlead and the plastic broke during a race in high wind. No sure if it was the force from the jib sheet or if the ring had reached the end of its travel and we broke it with the winch, but either way have to rethink this. I'm thinking a SS padeye with a small block or ring instead of the fairlead.  Thoughts??

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23 minutes ago, gjbike said:

Well, found out this weekend the set up is not up to the task.  Bent the bolt on the foremost fairlead and the plastic broke during a race in high wind. No sure if it was the force from the jib sheet or if the ring had reached the end of its travel and we broke it with the winch, but either way have to rethink this. I'm thinking a SS padeye with a small block or ring instead of the fairlead.  Thoughts??

told you................

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3 hours ago, gjbike said:

Granted.  Now how about some helpful ideas to help me solve this problem

Sure.  The current setup does end up with some big loads because you have the purchase system as a triangle setup.  It also lessens the purchase power (even makes it negative at max inhaul).  You can probably eliminate that forward lead altogether and just go through the aft one, through the inhauler ring and back to terrminate the line at the same aft lead.  this will give you a 2:1 purchase and the load on the fairlead will be just about double of the inhauler load (as opposed to the much higher load you currently put on both the aft and forward leads)

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Ultimately you want the capability to trim this from the windward side while under load.  You want to be able to inboard the jib clew to coach roof (30degr chamfer). It’s great to shift gears in a puff or with tactical situations as leeward/ windward boat in leebow tacks etc.  

Your sailmaker need to cut away the jib clew attach the new clew corner high enough to end up at the top of the coach roof.

Simple solution

There is one simple and at the same time genius solution, but it’s not exacly to class drawing.  But since it requires no drilling it’s a great start it you don’t do one design regattas regularly.  You simply attach a pair dyneema core line like Marlow D12 to a pair of M10 eye nuts. This end is attached to the inside of of the hull to one the of chainplate bolt ends. 

The other end is led out to the coach roof on the same side. Splice a ring (1) to the end. Create a 4:1 purchase by Attaching a ring(2) to a fiddle block with becket and cleat.  Splice 4-5mm D12 to the fiddle block. Run the D12 two loops through ring (1) and fiddle block and cleat.

just run the sheets through ring(2) and point high!

The class legal solution

Requires a more exact position of the clew corner while sailing, mark before drilling holes for the two fair leads that should be quite close to each other, not like on GJ Bikes photo.

 

I will add some photos

 

42E21192-86E8-41CB-ABB3-C3A331772E23.jpeg

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