Went to look at a Catalina 22....

[Tempest 46]

So a local guy is selling a Catalina 22 and I went to take a look at it the other day. I wasn't super impressed but perhaps that's because I'm unsure of whether or not it's a good buy. 1974 and it's a little dirty from sitting outside. Rigging looks OK but the surface of the fiber glass needs love. It has spider cracks in the gel coat in certain areas and overall needs a cut and polish. Lots of little spots where things have rubbed through the gel coat. One spot about halfway up the bow clearly has been repaired (probably from hitting something) and not repaired well (lumpy, not blended in).

 

I asked him when he last serviced the swing keel and he didn't know what I was talking about. The winch and cable look OK but I would definitely repair/service stuff before using the boat. There is some obvious home-brew glass work at the front of the keel trunk which makes me cringe. I think I saw spray foam which made me puke in my mouth a little. It would be easy for me to cut that stuff out and repair the glass myself but are there other issues that can arise from cracks to the keel trunk?

 

The other big issue that concerned me is that he said the fore-deck separated from the hull right at the bow. I'm guessing this is from the bow chainplate/shroud. He said he glassed it back together and he installed a turnbuckle on the inside of the hull that runs from the underside of the chainplate to the bow eye (where the trailer winch attaches). Is this a common problem with these boats? Is this a problem from which is should steer away from?

 

Otherwise, the bilge looks clean, the interior looks like that of a boat from the 1970s, the motor is pretty new and the trailer looks good aside from needing new tires. He's asking $5500 CAD. Thoughts?

 

 

 

Starboard side of cockpit looking aft

 

can't remember what this is. Somewhere around the keel trunk, I believe

[Tempest 46]

Bow

 

 

Rear of keel trunk, Port side.

Front of keel trunk port side (I think)

[Tempest 46]

One weird thing is that the pop-top supports are pretty much perfectly vertical when the top is up. Buddy made a makeshift part to hold it up to the mast. Is that how it's supposed to be? Maybe a factory part was just missing? I also found it strange that the mast step is bolted in with the bolts coming in right at an area where there's a step in the fiberglass. Is this factory? If so it's super sloppy "craftsmanship".

 

[Tempest 46]

I figure if it doesn't leak during a test sail and if I can get him to come down in price (substantially) it may be an OK buy. I'm thinking around $3000 maybe. I saw one in better condition than this with an older motor and trailer sell for $1500. I should have jumped on it but I wasn't familiar with the Catalina 22 at the time. Had I known then when I know now I would have snagged it.

[DavidC59 28]

This thing looks like a mess.

Do you want a boat project or do you want to go sailing?

Catalina 22s are everywhere.

You can get one in much better condition for $3000 (or less)

Keep looking and be patient.

[mtn_matt 1]

The glass work from the factory around the keel trunk under the liner looked like hell at best. That said, yeah, there is some worse DIY repairs visible in your photos. The scenario that comes to mind that would cause someone to do that is the keel cable let go and the keel swung hard against the trunk. That's bad news typically and a proper repair is more costly than the boat. I'm not saying that's what did happen... but that can happen.

 

The keel weighs about 550#, was sand cast iron (i think) and the hardware only lasts so long. The pivot pin, cable, and cable terminus are all suspect on boats that haven't been maintained and they are challenging repairs for a DIY because of the weight of the keel. So proceed cautiously.

 

The next concern I see is the bow detachment. Lots of those boats (mine included) have had the turnbuckle added, usually when a furler is installed to strengthen the front end and once completed I've never heard of an issue. But it sounds like this one was added after it separated so who knows what other damage resulted.

 

If you wanted a project boat, you sure found one. Less than a grand or walk away.

[mtn_matt 1]

Mast step should be directly over the compression post. and I think it was just lag screwed on. It should be a flat spot on the deck where it rests.

 

Yeah the pop top was held up by a goofy piece of aluminum that slid on the mast track. Never used it.

 

Also... is that keel winch a trailer winch??? If so, it's a common cheap replacement but a bad decision. A clutch winch keeps control of the load when the keel is going up and down. A trailer winch will spin out of control when lowering if you let go of it.

[Blitz 80]

For 5500 it should be spotless and well maintained. You didn't mention anything about the sails. Theres better boats out there but as far as trailer sailors go the Catalina 22 is hard to beat.

[Norse Horse 603]

Yuck...

You want a project? More up side here-1981 Catalina 27'

 

Better trailer sailer-23' Santana Sailboat with Trailer Victoria City, Victoria

 

22ft w trailer-1976 Seafarer 22'

[Not Me 0]

PASS

[Caferacer59 5]

I agree pass, patience will reward you with a nicer boat as lower cost.

[hobot 1,245]

PASS

Agreed.

[Steam Flyer 3,375]

For 5500 it should be spotless and well maintained. You didn't mention anything about the sails. Theres better boats out there but as far as trailer sailors go the Catalina 22 is hard to beat.

 

Agreed, it's not worth $5500 even in Monopoly money. Don't expect too much craftsmanship from mass-produced boats (of which Catalina is one of the Big 3) of any type, brand, or vintage... glasswork that looks like shit on a stick is pretty much standard, fittings that are undersized and rough-fit, etc etc.

 

Depending on what kind of sailing you want to do, I think there are better boats out there. The Catalina 22 is kind of the Volkswagen van of trailerable sailboats. I've had a bunch of trailerable sailboats from smallish racing dinghies up to mid-20-footer racer/cruisers; my fave was the Santana 23 which on it's worst day could drag a bucket and still sail rings around the Catalina on the Catalina's best day; and was just as roomy inside, more comfy cockpit, and while it wasn't any better built it wasn't worse either. My wife and I also had a smaller Hunter trailer-cruiser that was far far more practical, easier to launch, more comfortable, and could at least keep up under sail... I know this for a fact because we cruised in company with Catalina 22s for years.

 

My 2c ... have some patience and good luck!

 

FB- Doug

[sail69 97]

Too much inventory out there to even consider that mess at that price. Patience and use your keyboard.

 

Some well maintained, well loved boat is out there being sold by a sad owner who is too old/fragile/moving up/divorcing/getting a new wife/paying tuition bills etc. who will sell it to the right (enthusiastic) owner at a very fair price.

[Innocent Bystander 594]

22-25' sailboats were popping out of molds ever couple of days bsck in 1974. Cheap and quick was the word of the day and many boats were laid up with chopper guns operated by "Sex, drugs and R&R" guys who probably had a fatty a lunch.

 

In other words, don't expect any 1974 trailerable boat to be "high quality" by any of today's standards. For this one, a good trailer and newish motor are a plus. Even with that, the asking price is way high for what it is. Sail69 is right. There is a much loved and cared for boat out there at a lower price just waiting for you to find it.

 

Pass on this one.

[mustang__1 273]

i think i see a LOT of light coming in through the hull deck joint at the bow..... pass.

[RKoch 1,004]

Pass. That boat would sell in FL for $1000. They are cheap enough and numerous enough you can find a deal. $5500 would get you one in mint condition.

[chip 3]

That looks like the official poptop holder. I barely used it...I had a vang on mine that was always in the way of popping the top.

 

Not sure about the compression post. I had an '86 and by then they'd switched to a steel post with a square flange that bolted on...it didn't have that rounded bit molded into the headliner.

 

I also agree that that looks like a trailer winch, which is a significant hazard. From the Catalina Direct parts website:

 

Never use a trailer winch as a replacement for your boat's original keel winch! Visualize what would happen if, as the keel was being lowered, your hand slipped off the winch handle. Imagine the potential injury if your hand got tangled with the rapidly spinning winch handle. Never attempt to adjust the clutch mechanism. If the thing does not work right, replace it. The cost is just not worth the risk to the boat or the crew.

 

 

I loved my C22, and thought it was a great first boat, but I wouldn't buy that one. There are tons of them out there.

[zzrider 3]

yep, PASS. Way too much $$$ for a sketchy project boat. C22s are everywhere.

[Firefly-DC 175]

not mine but $12K seems a bit much for one of these no matter how well it was taken care of

 

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/boa/6057345967.html

[12 metre 194]

Pass. That boat would sell in FL for $1000. They are cheap enough and numerous enough you can find a deal. $5500 would get you one in mint condition.

 

That is about what the boat should sell for in BC - in Vancouver, Kelowna or the Island. I suspect the OP resides in one of the other areas of BC where there is not much of a market to compare with. Otherwise he wouldn't have even considered looking at the boat - the price is SOOOOO out of whack.

[Great Red Shark 280]

RKoch and zzrider have it right.

 

IF you were looking for a project, AND it was about a grand, THEN: Maybe. Perhaps - if there were significant contributing factors like it's inventory or something.

 

Either he did that (poor) repair and the (Fisherbilly) winch replacement and then dummied up about it, or the last guy did it and he hasn't done anything since and wants to just pass that mess along to the next clown. Which would be you.

 

He's looking for someone to take this rolling liability off his hands. -- and I LIKE Catalina22s - (although, the old fixed-keel version rules).

 

Here is why it's a Bad Idea: a grand to buy and a grand or two to repair, not to mention the work and mess, and you are at the cost of a nice boat that wasn't owned by a hack. let alone that for $ 5 K there are MUCH better options. Now consider that five PLUS the significant corrections needed and you have just gotta be kidding unless it comes with a crew of nymphomaniac cheerleaders.

 

Now, as for the 'daylight' comment - you DO know that Fiberglass is made of GLASS, right, mustang ? If there isn't core or fully opaque gel-coat then there is going to be light transmission, and that doesn't necessarily indicate an immediate issue.

[ease hike trim 19]

The light coming through is irrelevant and makes no difference structurally whatsoever.

[12 metre 194]

The light coming through is irrelevant and makes no difference structurally whatsoever.

 

I think Mustang is aware of that since he emphasized a LOT of light - which could mean a thin layup there if that is the case.

 

However, that looks like the amount of light I would expect to see in an uncoated solid glass layup.

[ease hike trim 19]

Maybe. My comment was directed to the OP though.

 

Not trying to pick a fight with Mustang, just pointing out to the OP that it's not unusual to see that amount of light and that's no reason to pass on the boat.

 

The asking price being 300% more than the boat is worth is the reason to pass on the boat.

[12 metre 194]

Maybe. My comment was directed to the OP though.

 

Not trying to pick a fight with Mustang, just pointing out to the OP that it's not unusual to see that amount of light and that's no reason to pass on the boat.

 

The asking price being 300% more than the boat is worth is the reason to pass on the boat.

 

Agreed.

[swangtang 17]

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

[Ishmael 4,182]

Decent Capri 25 by the looks of it. https://victoria.craigslist.ca/boa/6023429380.html

 

Where in BC is the OP? That will help narrow the field.

[Blitz 80]

Maybe. My comment was directed to the OP though.

 

Not trying to pick a fight with Mustang, just pointing out to the OP that it's not unusual to see that amount of light and that's no reason to pass on the boat.

 

The asking price being 300% more than the boat is worth is the reason to pass on the boat.

I would expect all the fiberglass to be covered with gel coat or a rub rail along the hull to deck joint so myself I would look closer. But I agree light shining through fiber glass is nothing to worry about. I've never seen uncoated fiber glass in that area of a boat though.

[Great Red Shark 280]

Often-times corners are un-cored and when the gel coat wears thin they shine through. I've seen it a LOT. It's sunny here.

[Blitz 80]

 

I agree in isolated areas, but the pic shows a nice long continuous line of light.

[Great Red Shark 280]

Like you'd have on a long, straight corner, where the core ends...

 

Again, the matrix of that composite is Polyester resin (translucent) and Glass fibers (transparent) unless you put something more in there to make it opaque, light (but not water) is going to come in.

 

It doesn't mean it's thin there - they make some pretty thick windows, ya know ? Some boats used to just have an bare, in-gel-coated or unpainted panel to act as a passive 'window' to let diffuse light into the interior - like on the lower cockpit sides or hatch centers. Not all that pretty but it works and doesn't leak.

[12 metre 194]

Like you'd have on a long, straight corner, where the core ends...

 

Again, the matrix of that composite is Polyester resin (translucent) and Glass fibers (transparent) unless you put something more in there to make it opaque, light (but not water) is going to come in.

 

It doesn't mean it's thin there - they make some pretty thick windows, ya know ? Some boats used to just have an bare, in-gel-coated or unpainted panel to act as a passive 'window' to let diffuse light into the interior - like on the lower cockpit sides or hatch centers. Not all that pretty but it works and doesn't leak.

 

You mean like in the starboard quarter berth area of this boat? I've never heard of the passive window thing before, but it sorta makes sense.

 

In both boats I've had (which were 80's performance boats) there can be quite a bit of light transmitted for extensive lengths in the solid glass portions near the hull/deck joint - even with gel coat. And these were both decent quality low production boats.

[ease hike trim 19]

I think we're beating a dead horse.

[lyncht 0]

Find a Tanzer 22- better made, better sailing version of the Cat 22. Bunches in Canada.

[grnrngr 0]

Just my perspective, I paid $1500 for my Morgan 27 from Tacoma, $1500 for my Reinell Cheetah 27 from Bellingham, $1k for my US 25 from Olympia. All are projects but usable, and are

much cleaner and less damaged. Shop around...I frequently see decent deals on Craigslist in the Bellingham area.

[DavidC59 28]

not mine but $12K seems a bit much for one of these no matter how well it was taken care of

 

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/boa/6057345967.html

 

This guy spent several years putting all kinds of bells and whistles on his Catalina 22 and now thinks he's going to recoup his misguided "investment." No one is going to pay anywhere near that for a Catalina 22.

[Blitz 80]

 

Like you'd have on a long, straight corner, where the core ends...

 

Again, the matrix of that composite is Polyester resin (translucent) and Glass fibers (transparent) unless you put something more in there to make it opaque, light (but not water) is going to come in.

 

It doesn't mean it's thin there - they make some pretty thick windows, ya know ? Some boats used to just have an bare, in-gel-coated or unpainted panel to act as a passive 'window' to let diffuse light into the interior - like on the lower cockpit sides or hatch centers. Not all that pretty but it works and doesn't leak.

 

You mean like in the starboard quarter berth area of this boat? I've never heard of the passive window thing before, but it sorta makes sense.

 

In both boats I've had (which were 80's performance boats) there can be quite a bit of light transmitted for extensive lengths in the solid glass portions near the hull/deck joint - even with gel coat. And these were both decent quality low production boats.

I have 2 passive window areas on my newport 33 and it does lighten up the quarter berth and v berth a lot.

[Great Red Shark 280]

Yeah - they were common on the in-house hatches J-boats built early on, and I've seen it in some of the Ross boats from down undah.

 

Reminds me of seeing the original YAMAHA - Ross Field's 1st generation Whitbred 60. I was stunned that there were NO hatches aside from the main - nothing opening forward or aft.

 

"What's up with THAT ?" I asked a crewman, who answered: "Holes are heavy, mate." - and so they are.

 

The $ 12 large Catalina guy reminds me of all the clowns that lard a bunch of chrome gee-gaws onto a Hardley Ableson and then put it up for sale with the line "Over 30 thousand INVESTED..."

 

No, dude, that was Squandered. Ain't nobody cashing you out on that heap.

[Ishmael 4,182]

 

He's asking $5500 CAD. Thoughts?

 

No way. You kidding? Buddy bought a Niagra 26 out of the creek that was solid just needed to upgrade the running rig to race, for 6k.

 

 

Oh, right, I think I forgot to mock the price. You can get better stuff free.

[armchairadmiral 38]

$$$ooo's worth of superb advice here. Run a mile !

[nematon785 0]

Much rather have 5 grand in pocket than that turd

[Tempest 46]

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. This is exactly the response I was hoping for and you guys have pretty much confirmed my suspicions.

 

I'm in Kelowna BC and I'm looking for a 22-25' trailer sailer. I currently have a 14' dingy, which is fun but a slightly bigger boat would be more practical. I want something that will be sharpening me up for a bigger boat at some point and I would also like to be able to spend the night on it. Would be great to spend the weekends sailing around OK lake.

 

The reason I want a trailer sailer is because I'm hoping to pick something up for $5k or under that I will be able to flip and some point and get most of my money back for investing in a bigger boat. I don't want to pay for moorage because I want to save that money for a bigger boat and I'm also thinking about moving to the coast at some point and I would like to be able to just pull the boat down there as opposed to trying to sell it or paying to have it moved.

For 5500 it should be spotless and well maintained. You didn't mention anything about the sails. Theres better boats out there but as far as trailer sailors go the Catalina 22 is hard to beat.

The main sail is brand new. He said the other 3 jibs are in good condition but I didn't bother to look at them since I knew I was walking away.

 

Yuck...

You want a project? More up side here-1981 Catalina 27'

 

Better trailer sailer-23' Santana Sailboat with Trailer Victoria City, Victoria

 

22ft w trailer-1976 Seafarer 22'

Wow, that Santana looks AWESOME but I don't know that I'm down for $8k without a motor. As for the Seafarer, I want to avoid fixed keel. I will put the Santana on my list of boats to look at.

 

 

Pass. That boat would sell in FL for $1000. They are cheap enough and numerous enough you can find a deal. $5500 would get you one in mint condition.

That is about what the boat should sell for in BC - in Vancouver, Kelowna or the Island. I suspect the OP resides in one of the other areas of BC where there is not much of a market to compare with. Otherwise he wouldn't have even considered looking at the boat - the price is SOOOOO out of whack.

 

I'm in Kelowna but the market is pretty bare at the moment. I've been looking at Craigslist in Kelowna and Vancouver. I should probably also be checking Kijiji and watching the island too.

 

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

I answered that above. I should probably also be watching northern Washington too. Thanks. Is it a hassle to import a boat?

 

Find a Tanzer 22- better made, better sailing version of the Cat 22. Bunches in Canada.

I read an article that compared the Tanzer 22, Catalina 22 and something else. They seemed to like the Tanzer but they kinda rated all 3 boats pretty closely from what I could tell. The Tanzer was apparently faster though.

 

Just my perspective, I paid $1500 for my Morgan 27 from Tacoma, $1500 for my Reinell Cheetah 27 from Bellingham, $1k for my US 25 from Olympia. All are projects but usable, and are

much cleaner and less damaged. Shop around...I frequently see decent deals on Craigslist in the Bellingham area.

Ok, that's good to know! Thanks!

[grnrngr 0]

Lol. This one is in the "other" Vancouver, but I'd be happy to give it a look over if you're interested

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/boa/6059452279.html

 

I've been preventing myself from looking at this one, offered by the local sea scouts

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/6058796196.html

[swangtang 17]

 

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

I answered that above. I should probably also be watching northern Washington too. Thanks. Is it a hassle to import a boat?

 

Not at all, you'll need all the right documents of course (bill of sale, trailer title, etc) but other wise its pretty straight forward you just have to pay the PST at the boarder. If you've been out of the country for 48 hours though they deduct $800 from what you have to pay so you might not have to pay anything.

[RKoch 1,004]

Should be able to find a Santana 23 for 5 or less. A couple grand more gets you an S2-7.9. Nothing wrong with a Cat 22 except they're not very fast...they sail OK though. Just don't shell out 5 grand for one.

[Tempest 46]

Lol. This one is in the "other" Vancouver, but I'd be happy to give it a look over if you're interested

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/boa/6059452279.html

 

I've been preventing myself from looking at this one, offered by the local sea scouts

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/6058796196.html

That first one looks ok. The price is definitely right. It's an old unit though and it looks like it's had some home-brew painting done.

 

Not interested in the second one at all.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a passport at the moment so I wouldn't be able to head down there until I got one :/

 

 

 

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

I answered that above. I should probably also be watching northern Washington too. Thanks. Is it a hassle to import a boat?

 

Not at all, you'll need all the right documents of course (bill of sale, trailer title, etc) but other wise its pretty straight forward you just have to pay the PST at the boarder. If you've been out of the country for 48 hours though they deduct $800 from what you have to pay so you might not have to pay anything.

 

Guess I'll have to get that passport.

 

Should be able to find a Santana 23 for 5 or less. A couple grand more gets you an S2-7.9. Nothing wrong with a Cat 22 except they're not very fast...they sail OK though. Just don't shell out 5 grand for one.

Well it looks like the Santana is a water ballast boat. Think I might stay away from water ballast.

[RKoch 1,004]

 

Lol. This one is in the "other" Vancouver, but I'd be happy to give it a look over if you're interested

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/boa/6059452279.html

 

I've been preventing myself from looking at this one, offered by the local sea scouts

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/6058796196.html

That first one looks ok. The price is definitely right. It's an old unit though and it looks like it's had some home-brew painting done.

 

Not interested in the second one at all.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a passport at the moment so I wouldn't be able to head down there until I got one :/

 

 

 

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

I answered that above. I should probably also be watching northern Washington too. Thanks. Is it a hassle to import a boat?

Not at all, you'll need all the right documents of course (bill of sale, trailer title, etc) but other wise its pretty straight forward you just have to pay the PST at the boarder. If you've been out of the country for 48 hours though they deduct $800 from what you have to pay so you might not have to pay anything.

Guess I'll have to get that passport.

 

Should be able to find a Santana 23 for 5 or less. A couple grand more gets you an S2-7.9. Nothing wrong with a Cat 22 except they're not very fast...they sail OK though. Just don't shell out 5 grand for one.

Well it looks like the Santana is a water ballast boat. Think I might stay away from water ballast.

No, Santana 23 is an internal ballast daggerboarder. They made a couple different models on the same hull (one a 2023?) of which one had water ballast.

[12 metre 194]

There is a decent looking Mac/Venture 21 for under $2k just across the border. https://bellingham.craigslist.org/boa/6043801161.html

 

Seem to be fairly well regarded boats (for what they are) here on SA.

 

You might also look for a San Juan 21. IIRC there are quite a few of these in the Okanagan lakes area - maybe just not any for sale at the moment. Also, try looking on websites like Sailboatlistings.com

 

The problem with Craigslist, besides the occasionally overly optimistic sellers is that listings can fall through the cracks in your search area.

[Tempest 46]

 

 

Lol. This one is in the "other" Vancouver, but I'd be happy to give it a look over if you're interested

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/boa/6059452279.html

 

I've been preventing myself from looking at this one, offered by the local sea scouts

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/6058796196.html

That first one looks ok. The price is definitely right. It's an old unit though and it looks like it's had some home-brew painting done.

 

Not interested in the second one at all.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a passport at the moment so I wouldn't be able to head down there until I got one :/

 

 

 

Question: what does the OP want this boat for? Is the size and ability to trailer important?

 

There are a ton of Cal 20's, Ranger 23's and Thunderbird's floating around on Seattle's Craigslist for < $2000

I answered that above. I should probably also be watching northern Washington too. Thanks. Is it a hassle to import a boat?

 

Not at all, you'll need all the right documents of course (bill of sale, trailer title, etc) but other wise its pretty straight forward you just have to pay the PST at the boarder. If you've been out of the country for 48 hours though they deduct $800 from what you have to pay so you might not have to pay anything.

 

Guess I'll have to get that passport.

 

Should be able to find a Santana 23 for 5 or less. A couple grand more gets you an S2-7.9. Nothing wrong with a Cat 22 except they're not very fast...they sail OK though. Just don't shell out 5 grand for one.

Well it looks like the Santana is a water ballast boat. Think I might stay away from water ballast.

 

No, Santana 23 is an internal ballast daggerboarder. They made a couple different models on the same hull (one a 2023?) of which one had water ballast.

 

Oh, ok. The one posted earlier was water ballast, I believe. How does internal ballast compare to a weighted swing keel? Does it handle alright?

 

There is a decent looking Mac/Venture 21 for under $2k just across the border. https://bellingham.craigslist.org/boa/6043801161.html

 

Seem to be fairly well regarded boats (for what they are) here on SA.

 

You might also look for a San Juan 21. IIRC there are quite a few of these in the Okanagan lakes area - maybe just not any for sale at the moment. Also, try looking on websites like Sailboatlistings.com

 

The problem with Craigslist, besides the occasionally overly optimistic sellers is that listings can fall through the cracks in your search area.

Yeah, I saw that one. Looking for something in better condition. Don't mind paying $5k for something turn-key.

[Norse Horse 603]

 

Should be able to find a Santana 23 for 5 or less. A couple grand more gets you an S2-7.9. Nothing wrong with a Cat 22 except they're not very fast...they sail OK though. Just don't shell out 5 grand for one.

Well it looks like the Santana is a water ballast boat. Think I might stay away from water ballast.

 

Don't be put off by the water ballast model. It is a simple system with a rod much like an engine valve, to fill and drain the tank. It makes it easy to tow with a smaller vehicle. The boat will be more stable in the chop than the Catalina. Vendee Globe racers use water ballast systems, American Express, a famed racer and rule changer featured it, and so do many boats like the venerable Mac 26.

I have watched a Catalina 22 hobby horse upwind until the sails lost power. They are somewhat under powered with a short mast and small head sail. They have been a very popular design and they are what they are, no hate here.

There have been several Santanas for sale in the Okanagan and they have the largest fleet in BC. You could go down to the marinas and dry yards and post some ads, check with other owners, look for boats with FS signs on them that are not listed online. All boats are for sale, sooner or later. Leave a note and ask anyone you see about prospective boats. You could likely get a ride on a Santana when they get racing this spring.

Soon it will be warm and the listings will appear again, many with inflated prices.

Sails and other new boat bits have a poor return on resale that many refuse to admit.

 

Consider the early V21, it has more performance, yet is easy to learn on and many were sold. 1969 macgregor venture 21

A project on a trailer, but you need a big truck.Shock 25 sailboat

A newer Santana. 1993 SANTANA 2023A

[Tempest 46]

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[12 metre 194]

LIke I said, try sailboatlistings.com

 

Here is a really nice looking Santana 525 for under $4k US http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/53705

 

Well regarded boats, good performers. But no swing keel. Quite a few of these as well in Kelowna as well IIRC. Looks like it has half decent sails and a newer outboard.

 

Yeah, I know, it is in Missouri, but it looks like it comes with a trailer. A bit of effort on your part to get it up here - but the world isn't perfect. Also, should be easy to resell in the Kelowna area. Or wait until one comes up for sale in Kelowna.

[LakeBoy 1]

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. This is exactly the response I was hoping for and you guys have pretty much confirmed my suspicions.

 

I'm in Kelowna BC and I'm looking for a 22-25' trailer sailer. I currently have a 14' dingy, which is fun but a slightly bigger boat would be more practical. I want something that will be sharpening me up for a bigger boat at some point and I would also like to be able to spend the night on it. Would be great to spend the weekends sailing around OK lake.

 

The reason I want a trailer sailer is because I'm hoping to pick something up for $5k or under that I will be able to flip and some point and get most of my money back for investing in a bigger boat. I don't want to pay for moorage because I want to save that money for a bigger boat and I'm also thinking about moving to the coast at some point and I would like to be able to just pull the boat down there as opposed to trying to sell it or paying to have it moved.Ok, that's good to know! Thanks!

 

 

 

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

 

think we found the connections

[12 metre 194]

 

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies, fellas. This is exactly the response I was hoping for and you guys have pretty much confirmed my suspicions.

 

I'm in Kelowna BC and I'm looking for a 22-25' trailer sailer. I currently have a 14' dingy, which is fun but a slightly bigger boat would be more practical. I want something that will be sharpening me up for a bigger boat at some point and I would also like to be able to spend the night on it. Would be great to spend the weekends sailing around OK lake.

 

The reason I want a trailer sailer is because I'm hoping to pick something up for $5k or under that I will be able to flip and some point and get most of my money back for investing in a bigger boat. I don't want to pay for moorage because I want to save that money for a bigger boat and I'm also thinking about moving to the coast at some point and I would like to be able to just pull the boat down there as opposed to trying to sell it or paying to have it moved.Ok, that's good to know! Thanks!

 

 

 

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

 

think we found the connections

 

 

+11

[Great Red Shark 280]

It's like the sign you see in small towns: " We buy junk and sell antiques "

 

Just remember that time is your friend. Stay liquid until you find the right boat for you. You'll know it when you see it - just remember that there are a LOT of boats out there and by looking at trailerables you open up your market as long as you have a decent tow vehicle...and a passport.

[RKoch 1,004]

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

The Catalina and O'Day are both way over-priced. There are no Shark 24s in my area to get a handle on pricing. The price may be in ballpark in a location where they're active, but high in a location where they're not. The Shark is a keel boat, the O'Day probably is though perhaps a shoal draft.

The water ballast isn't an absolute disqualifier. Makes trailering easier. If it's well engineered and you recognize its limitations (not an offshore boat) then it's OK. The 'not an offshore boat' probably is going to describe nearly all small and cheap trailerable boats. I'll again suggest an S2-7.9, they're pretty solid boats, good sailing, reasonably fast, well-built, good resale value. Pretty easy to rig and launch. Price is going to be over $5K for a decent one, but will be well under $10K.

[Steam Flyer 3,375]

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

The Shark is a great little boat and if there is a class there, then he's asking a bit much but not insane. The Oday (nice little boat) and Cat22 sellers are bonkers all right.

 

 

Lol. This one is in the "other" Vancouver, but I'd be happy to give it a look over if you're interested

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/boa/6059452279.html

 

I've been preventing myself from looking at this one, offered by the local sea scouts

 

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/6058796196.html

 

Oh, to live in a climate where you can paint a boat black and actually consider sitting on it. Around here, that would only be usable on a gloomy winter day. That Balboa 20 is a nice little boat, like many trailersailers I am familiar with it because some friends had one.

 

Keel & ballast questions- good info to have. There's nothing inherently wrong with water ballast, I owned and sailed a water-ballasted trailersailer with my wife for about a decade. It's nice in that you can have a somewhat-bigger boat and less weight to tow. If properly designed (which they all are) they sail fine. The MacGregor 26C & 26D, which is the water-ballast version of the earlier Mac 25 swing-keel boat, are great boats. There was one abandoned at our sailing club here in coastal NC, sold at auction for $500 with a running outboard motor. Would I sail one around Cape Horn? Hell no but I've sailed one (a friends, again) in the Chesapeake in 20+ kt winds & corresponding sea, handled it fine (reefed appropriately).

 

A swing keel boat, such as the Catalina 22 and Venture 21, needs to have a strong winch -with a clutch- and the trunk/pivot needs to be sound. The winch cannot be overstated- a conventional trailer-style winch with a ratchet or pawl will break somebody's arm one day, free-wheeling under the weight of the keel. You've already noted suspicious glasswork on the first Cat22 you looked at... this must be a common inspection point, so good onya. But (to repeat) if designed properly... which almost all the ones you see nowadays, are... they sail well and can be a great learning platform.

 

Each kind will have somewhat different characteristics, for example the Santana 23 that I had, which had ballast built into the bilge area of the hull and a daggerboard, sailed upwind like a witch, was a light-air machine, and also handled our local sea-breeze-plus-chop like an eager thoroughbred. It was also a bit tricky to steer and needed a suit of fancy sails (big jib, medium jib, little jib, main with flattening reef & deep reef) to do "what she do." The newer water-ballasted versions of that same boat share the comfy workable cockpit & deck, relatively nice cabin (bearing in mind that a 22~23 footer is not going to be a palace no matter what) but had shorter less powerful sail plans. Every boat is a compromise.

 

Getting your money back... well, that can be done but it takes a bit of legwork and elbow grease; plus a helping of good luck. Sailboats are a buyers market and that's when the economy is ticking upward.

 

FB- Doug

[melan 0]

I came across an ad for a Ranger 23 and trailer in your (OP) neck of the woods. Don't know if the ad is still current.

 

http://www.boatdealers.ca/boats-for-sale/300489/ranger-23-sloop-west-kelowna-british-columbia

[Blitz 80]

There's a tanser 22 on cl near Seattle.

[Ishmael 4,182]

 

These are all boats I would consider but I feel like the owners are on crack with the prices.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/delta-surrey-langley/international-shark-class-association-isca-shark-24-one/1249562386?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/chilliwack/turn-key-trailerable-cruiser/1242605940?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/vernon/mint-condition-23ft-oday-sailboat/1197393688?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

The Shark is a great little boat and if there is a class there, then he's asking a bit much but not insane. The Oday (nice little boat) and Cat22 sellers are bonkers all right.

 

 

 

FB- Doug

 

 

I like Sharks, but they have to be Ontario built. The West Coast ones (you can tell them by the weird jib sheeting arrangement with one winch on the traveler support) aren't built nearly as well. I sold my last Hinterhoeller-built one on Vancouver Island for $3000, had an almost new Honda 8 and three new sails but no trailer.

[Remodel 290]

The boat in the OP isn't worth 3000 Pesos, let alone Dollars.

[Tempest 46]

think we found the connections

So if I get a good deal on a boat, say paying $5k at or (ideally) under fair market value, then take care of that boat and sell again in say 5 years, I should resell it for $500? Are you simply being a provocateur or have I given you reason to think I'm an idiot?

 

I'm not going to buy an over valued boat, beat the shit out of it and then try to flog it for what I paid for it. I would like to get a good deal on a boat, put a limited amount of money into it, take care of it and then recoup the majority of my money. I don't think this is an unreasonable supposition. Pumping an bunch of money into an old boat is obviously unwise and those costs would be very difficult to recover but a boat will retain a certain amount of value provided it still performs the functions for which it is desired and hasn't had the crap beat out of it. This is why boats built in the 1970s are still selling. I don't see a lot of them being given away.

Just remember that time is your friend. Stay liquid until you find the right boat for you. You'll know it when you see it - just remember that there are a LOT of boats out there and by looking at trailerables you open up your market as long as you have a decent tow vehicle...and a passport.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've got time and I'm liquid. I have a 3/4 ton diesel pickup so I'm good on the tow vehicle. I'll start looking into the passport right away.

 

The Catalina and O'Day are both way over-priced. There are no Shark 24s in my area to get a handle on pricing. The price may be in ballpark in a location where they're active, but high in a location where they're not. The Shark is a keel boat, the O'Day probably is though perhaps a shoal draft.

The water ballast isn't an absolute disqualifier. Makes trailering easier. If it's well engineered and you recognize its limitations (not an offshore boat) then it's OK. The 'not an offshore boat' probably is going to describe nearly all small and cheap trailerable boats. I'll again suggest an S2-7.9, they're pretty solid boats, good sailing, reasonably fast, well-built, good resale value. Pretty easy to rig and launch. Price is going to be over $5K for a decent one, but will be well under $10K.

The shark may be reasonable if it included the trailer and motor but it does not.

 

That S2-7.9 looks awesome! I'll put it on the list to watch for.

 

Oh, to live in a climate where you can paint a boat black and actually consider sitting on it. Around here, that would only be usable on a gloomy winter day. That Balboa 20 is a nice little boat, like many trailersailers I am familiar with it because some friends had one.

 

Keel & ballast questions- good info to have. There's nothing inherently wrong with water ballast, I owned and sailed a water-ballasted trailersailer with my wife for about a decade. It's nice in that you can have a somewhat-bigger boat and less weight to tow. If properly designed (which they all are) they sail fine. The MacGregor 26C & 26D, which is the water-ballast version of the earlier Mac 25 swing-keel boat, are great boats. There was one abandoned at our sailing club here in coastal NC, sold at auction for $500 with a running outboard motor. Would I sail one around Cape Horn? Hell no but I've sailed one (a friends, again) in the Chesapeake in 20+ kt winds & corresponding sea, handled it fine (reefed appropriately).

 

A swing keel boat, such as the Catalina 22 and Venture 21, needs to have a strong winch -with a clutch- and the trunk/pivot needs to be sound. The winch cannot be overstated- a conventional trailer-style winch with a ratchet or pawl will break somebody's arm one day, free-wheeling under the weight of the keel. You've already noted suspicious glasswork on the first Cat22 you looked at... this must be a common inspection point, so good onya. But (to repeat) if designed properly... which almost all the ones you see nowadays, are... they sail well and can be a great learning platform.

 

Each kind will have somewhat different characteristics, for example the Santana 23 that I had, which had ballast built into the bilge area of the hull and a daggerboard, sailed upwind like a witch, was a light-air machine, and also handled our local sea-breeze-plus-chop like an eager thoroughbred. It was also a bit tricky to steer and needed a suit of fancy sails (big jib, medium jib, little jib, main with flattening reef & deep reef) to do "what she do." The newer water-ballasted versions of that same boat share the comfy workable cockpit & deck, relatively nice cabin (bearing in mind that a 22~23 footer is not going to be a palace no matter what) but had shorter less powerful sail plans. Every boat is a compromise.

 

Getting your money back... well, that can be done but it takes a bit of legwork and elbow grease; plus a helping of good luck. Sailboats are a buyers market and that's when the economy is ticking upward.

 

FB- Doug

Sounds like good advice and another glowing review of the Santana 23. I'll keep that one on the list too.

[Tempest 46]

I came across an ad for a Ranger 23 and trailer in your (OP) neck of the woods. Don't know if the ad is still current.

 

http://www.boatdealers.ca/boats-for-sale/300489/ranger-23-sloop-west-kelowna-british-columbia

That looks perfect except I need a swing/lift keel. We don't have any deep launches in town.

[12 metre 194]

 

think we found the connections

So if I get a good deal on a boat, say paying $5k at or (ideally) under fair market value, then take care of that boat and sell again in say 5 years, I should resell it for $500? Are you simply being a provocateur or have I given you reason to think I'm an idiot?

 

I'm not going to buy an over valued boat, beat the shit out of it and then try to flog it for what I paid for it. I would like to get a good deal on a boat, put a limited amount of money into it, take care of it and then recoup the majority of my money. I don't think this is an unreasonable supposition. Pumping an bunch of money into an old boat is obviously unwise and those costs would be very difficult to recover but a boat will retain a certain amount of value provided it still performs the functions for which it is desired and hasn't had the crap beat out of it. This is why boats built in the 1970s are still selling. I don't see a lot of them being given away.

 

 

 

I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

[Tempest 46]

I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

It just came off a little condescending but I know what he's getting at.

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k.... Did you buy before 2008 and sell after or something?

[Tempest 46]

Boom! This looks like a good boat at a good value. Thoughts?

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33803

[CruiserJim 106]

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k

 

 

There's the rub - "worth" at any given time is not what's been put into it, it is what someone is willing to pay for it and nothing more.

 

Lots of good advice here. Re the Catalina 22, I've seen them well sailed and they can be a lot of bang for the buck. I once delivered a swing keel model from Coronado (San Diego) to Dana Point. Conditions were light with some W swell and light wind chop, mostly motorsailed with wind and chop/swell just forward of the beam. I found the motion of the boat to be unpleasant, it did hobby-horse in sort of a jerky manner as I recall. I owned a Catalina 27 myself at the time and my prior boat was a Santana 20, just for reference.

[RKoch 1,004]

 

I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

It just came off a little condescending but I know what he's getting at.

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k.... Did you buy before 2008 and sell after or something?

A boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Replacement cost, repairs, and 'improvements' have little to do with it. $6K in sails are worth $3K when they go out the door, before they're ever used. After a few years of use, they're worth $600.

It is rare to 'get out' of a boat what you've sunk in to it. It would mean you stumbled on to a deal of a marketable boat, and invested very little $ and time in maintainence, repairs, operating costs, etc. The best you can realistically expect is that the enjoyment of the boat was personally worth the net cost.

[12 metre 194]

 

I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

It just came off a little condescending but I know what he's getting at.

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k.... Did you buy before 2008 and sell after or something?

 

 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Probably more of a case of originally paying more than it was worth. Bought it mid 2009 so the market hadn't fully shaken out yet from the 2008 meltdown. The previous summer, a few sisterships sold for around $15k. so i thought I was getting a great deal at the time.

 

I should mention that the previous owner bought her 2 years earlier for $13.5k IIRC and he was the one who invested in new sails, berth cushions and running rigging. So he had about a $7k "loss" when he sold to me for $10k.

 

Oh yeah, the $6k bottom job I mentioned wasn't just bottom paint - It was fairing the hull and templating the keel. I originally had the boat listed at $10k, but not even a sniff. Then dropped it to $7.5k with nearly new sails or $5k with the old ones. By that time, a sistership with cruising dacron sails and no spin came on the market at $5k and sold just the week before mine did - so I felt lucky to have gotten $7k for her.

[Great Red Shark 280]

and someone smart enough not to be the bottom-scraping buyer got a solid value - if your work was good.

 

The point here about most of the candidates being 30++ years old is a valid one. Yep - if they COULD depreciate to Zero, they likely would - and some have done so, via neglect and misadventure.

 

Just do yourself a big favor BEFORE pulling the trigger and honestly ask yourself what you will be doing with this boat -how will you (most likely) use it, where, and in what conditions ? Will it be in the water enough to need anti-fouling ? How much (or little) performance will you be satisfied with ? etc.

 

Much as accomodations 'sell' the picture of adventures in your head, you will spend most of your time in the cockpit, trying to get the most out of it - I'm often reminded of the Beneteau235 which has amazing interior accomodation for a boat that size, but in my experience was sadly glued to the water.

 

Try VERY HARD not to buy more boat than you really need if you are trailer-sailing, and try to be patient - just remind yourself that no matter what you purchase, a better deal will crop up about a half-hour after you write the check.

 

If you make ANY purchase with the view that you'll be able to re-coup your expense at some later date, you are deluding yourself a bit and setting yourself up for frustration. Don't get ahead of yourself. Concentrate of careful surveying and choose THIS purchase with care.

[grnrngr 0]

This one is relatively close to you...

 

 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/6051616898.html

[casc27 99]

not mine but $12K seems a bit much for one of these no matter how well it was taken care of

 

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/boa/6057345967.html

 

I had to click just to see what a $12k Catalina 22 looks like. Okay, it's very well kept. Although I do wonder about that yuuuge outboard and two large gas cans. Must do a lot of motoring. Then, I ran across the bit about spending in excess of $40,000 over the years restoring the thing. I was immediately recalling a certain infamous pilot mentioned some years back on the local news, fellow by the name of Ho Lee Fuk...

[Bull City 1,240]

Boom! This looks like a good boat at a good value. Thoughts?

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33803

Fail on red suede berth cushions.

 

This one is relatively close to you...

 

 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/6051616898.html

Fail on the overhead paneling(?).

[12 metre 194]

This one is relatively close to you...

 

 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/6051616898.html

 

The tool box and hatches are nice - but not worth $1900.

 

The rest of the boat? Less than zero. Not even an outboard - and no mention of sails so most likely not.

[Ishmael 4,182]

 

Boom! This looks like a good boat at a good value. Thoughts?

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33803

Fail on red suede berth cushions.

 

This one is relatively close to you...

 

 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/6051616898.html

Fail on the overhead paneling(?).

 

 

Fail on it being a Lancer.

[12 metre 194]

 

Boom! This looks like a good boat at a good value. Thoughts?

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33803

Fail on red suede berth cushions.

 

 

And no piping either - how gauche!!

 

The SJ 21 looks pretty decent to me - although photos often make a boat look better than it really is.

[Tempest 46]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Probably more of a case of originally paying more than it was worth. Bought it mid 2009 so the market hadn't fully shaken out yet from the 2008 meltdown. The previous summer, a few sisterships sold for around $15k. so i thought I was getting a great deal at the time.

 

I should mention that the previous owner bought her 2 years earlier for $13.5k IIRC and he was the one who invested in new sails, berth cushions and running rigging. So he had about a $7k "loss" when he sold to me for $10k.

 

Oh yeah, the $6k bottom job I mentioned wasn't just bottom paint - It was fairing the hull and templating the keel. I originally had the boat listed at $10k, but not even a sniff. Then dropped it to $7.5k with nearly new sails or $5k with the old ones. By that time, a sistership with cruising dacron sails and no spin came on the market at $5k and sold just the week before mine did - so I felt lucky to have gotten $7k for her.

Ahhh yeah, I'm no expert but $6k sounded crazy expensive for a bottom paint job. Otherwise, yeah, it sounds like you just sold at a bad time and someone else got a hell of a deal. It happens. Not a whole lot different than real estate when you think about it aside from being a little more volatile.

 

and someone smart enough not to be the bottom-scraping buyer got a solid value - if your work was good.

 

The point here about most of the candidates being 30++ years old is a valid one. Yep - if they COULD depreciate to Zero, they likely would - and some have done so, via neglect and misadventure.

 

Just do yourself a big favor BEFORE pulling the trigger and honestly ask yourself what you will be doing with this boat -how will you (most likely) use it, where, and in what conditions ? Will it be in the water enough to need anti-fouling ? How much (or little) performance will you be satisfied with ? etc.

 

Much as accomodations 'sell' the picture of adventures in your head, you will spend most of your time in the cockpit, trying to get the most out of it - I'm often reminded of the Beneteau235 which has amazing interior accomodation for a boat that size, but in my experience was sadly glued to the water.

 

Try VERY HARD not to buy more boat than you really need if you are trailer-sailing, and try to be patient - just remind yourself that no matter what you purchase, a better deal will crop up about a half-hour after you write the check.

 

If you make ANY purchase with the view that you'll be able to re-coup your expense at some later date, you are deluding yourself a bit and setting yourself up for frustration. Don't get ahead of yourself. Concentrate of careful surveying and choose THIS purchase with care.

More good advice. I'm just going to be using this boat to enjoy and use in the meantime while I'm saving for a bigger boat. At some point I want a 40-ish foot offshore capable live-a-board but for now I'm just going to be cutting my teeth and enjoying the sun and the breeze. No racing. No pressure. A lot of beers will probably get drank aboard in the sun when there's no wind. If I can't recoup my costs on a $5k boat it won't be the end of the world but I have a hard time believing I won't be able to sell the sailing dream to someone else for $5k in 5 years if I take care of it. I'll take my time and pick up something good at a good price.

 

This one is relatively close to you...

 

 

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/6051616898.html

I do believe I will be passing on that turd.

[Great Red Shark 280]

Owing to the typically pelagic conditions here most sailing is done in stouter keelboats. But we do have a couple places to sail smaller keelboats and once upon a time we had a great rag-tag fleet of enthusiastic Run-What-You-Brung racers that resurrected a nice variety of 20-30 footers for the flat-water venue of Keehi Lagoon.

 

When we sailed a mixed bunch of C22s the sole SJ21 generally managed to hold it's own with the middle of our fleet, fwiw. We had one of those shoal-draft O'day 22s and it was hopeless uphill.

 

Not a lot of trailer-sailer boats out here though but if you turn up any Clipper 21s, just keep right on going.

 

Biggest factor is if you will be keeping it in the water, and if so, for how long ? If it's going to be splashed everytime you sail, it might open up the search criteria ( to fun stuff like a maybe a used Viper in need of some love, or...)

[Lark 1,218]

I've read the Santana water ballest boats had (or some had?) a built up tank with some sort of calk seams, which became a repair problem for owners due to hard to access leaks. Does anybody know about this?

 

I agree with Steam on the water ballest Mac C and D. being good boats, Upgrade the rudder. No wood in the deck to rot. Like most Macs, the hardware and wiring was minimalist when new.

[Norse Horse 603]

Just listed.

Canadian Sailcraft boats are a step up from the Cats and Ventures. They don't list out here often. This is a top 3 boat for you.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/6063277935.html

[12 metre 194]

Just listed.

Canadian Sailcraft boats are a step up from the Cats and Ventures. They don't list out here often. This is a top 3 boat for you.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/6063277935.html

 

That one is definitely worth consideraion. I didn't know CS made a trailerable 22 footer. If the build quality is anything like the bigger boats made by CS, it would be a significant step up from any of the other boats mentioned so far. Even comes with a trailer and O/B - which it should but that isn't always the case.

 

Looks a bit like a mini C&C 24 - except trailerable

[razorback 4]

+1 for the "RUN!" club. Too many sound Cat 22's in the world to tackle that.

 

Forget the "flip it & get my money back" thing unless you are talking about restoring a salvage that you got for free to usability. In that case, also forget it. BUT, because inexperienced sailors will often associate "known" with "valuable", a nice Cat 22 kept nice is usually easy to sell (relatively speaking) so you shouldn't take a money beating if you don't buy a charity case.

 

Somebody up there mentioned S2 7.9. Absolutely a superior boat to a Cat 22 in just about any way imaginable, but so much bigger that it's not really in the same league at all. Roughly 4,500 lbs vs 2,500. LOTS MORE BOAT. Maybe that's good, but if you trailer much, ramp launch, step rig shorthanded without a hoist, etc., be aware that the 7.9 is a MUCH bigger handful. Bigger rig, bigger sails, bigger tow vehicle, etc. all equal bigger $ to own & maintain. Lots of people do it, but it isn't the same. Now, S2 made a 6.9/6.7 that wasn't as popular as the 7.9, but it'd be more comparable in terms of portability, still with superior quality/performance/etc. S2 should hold value as good as any, better than most.

 

Now, since I do not subscribe to the "common is better than not" school of thought, (I've got an Impulse 26. Awesome little boat. Love it. No market value whatever.) I'd rather have a Santana 21 (swing keel, I think the 22's were all fixed, but could be wrong). Prettier, faster, and should be really cheap if you can find one.

Lindenberg 22, Merit 22, etc. are racier and a hell of a lot of fun. Decent one probably a little more $.

The various Schock/Santana models built on the 23' daggerboarder might fit the bill.

Precision 21 & 23 are tidy looking little craft, but I've never seen them go, so can't confirm if they sail like they look like they should. I think they were both Jim Taylor's, and he seemed competent.

Beneteau 235 was an innovative thing that seemed to get around pretty well. Not sure how many swing keels they made.

All that said, my brother has a Cat 22 that he drags to the scenic but tiny Cascade lakes in Oregon. He's had it for years, sails all the time with his wife & two wee boys. It's been a great boat for him.

[Maxx Baqustae 187]

 

Just listed.

Canadian Sailcraft boats are a step up from the Cats and Ventures. They don't list out here often. This is a top 3 boat for you.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/6063277935.html

 

That one is definitely worth consideraion. I didn't know CS made a trailerable 22 footer. If the build quality is anything like the bigger boats made by CS, it would be a significant step up from any of the other boats mentioned so far. Even comes with a trailer and O/B - which it should but that isn't always the case.

 

Looks a bit like a mini C&C 24 - except trailerable

 

+1. And ya, I didn't know there was a CS 22 that was trailerable. Or a CS did a 22 for that matter. But 22 anything in Vancouver isn't much of an issue. People tend to gravitate to larger here. That said I owned a Mull Ranger 22 for a short time. It was on trade for 6 months. The CS should have the quality there. Venture's are crap. The Catalina is a Catalina and there is so many of them out there you should have your choice; not at that price.

[V21 30]

Boom! This looks like a good boat at a good value. Thoughts?

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/33803

Looks good to me, get it done

[kinardly 99]

I don't know about the S2s but of all the others mentioned, the Schock/Santana 23 stands out in my memory as the best all around performer and reasonably well built. If you get a chance, look one over.