Tempest

Went to look at a Catalina 22....

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this is slowly becoming the "mockworthy craigslist" thread

I concur.

 

1) We need to give Tempest a list of boats he should consider.

 

2) If he is committed to a trailerable boat, how "trailerable" does it have to be? A J22 is a sweet boat, and theoretically trailerable (what mouth full) but not trailerable like a Beetle Cat.

 

3) Venture/MacGregor are out.

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Macs are inexpensive light boats built in high numbers. Some 22s had steel keels instead of iron. Wiring was bad, fittings inexpensive. 22s and 25s are likely to have soft decks as are many boats that age that haven't had regular TLC, Other threads show they can perform if you fit them out properly. I sail with a three 26 S models. They are not bad boats. Two spend a lot more time under sail then the S2s, Odays, Catalina's, Compac's, SJ and Rob Roy Sunchaser. That reflects the owner as much as the boat, but they go out while the others collect spiders.. They handle OK and do even better with an aftermarket rudder. If the PO spent some time upgrading fittings and sails one might be a great deal . As the comments here show, they don't get any respect. Resale value and purchase price are both low. They are the chevy nova of the muscle car world. Cheap, unimpressive, but give them a heart lung transplant and a hurst, they will make some noise. Decent hardware and sails, You might be better buying a well built Nova then a HemiCuda with a bent frame and cracked block.

 

You know the 26 S or D deck and centerboard will be low maintenance compared to many 'better' boats. The mast is light and deck mount. A fixed keel may not even be launchable without a hoist, depending on the ramp. Not everybody has time to track down their perfect boat, then walk and start again when they find they just drove 5 hours to buy junk. I wouldn't rule out any of these boats if it had your must haves, the PO upgraded and maintained it, it had a box of goodies, and it was solid. If it sat behind the barn filling with water for a decade, was badly modified to fit an amateur shipwright's perceived needs or was cobbled together with parts from the Home Depot chandlery, it doesn't matter how good it once was. .

 

Questions Tempest. How many times will you launch: once a season? Road trips or just eventually relocating?

Are you looking for an occasional overnight alone or do you hope to keep a date happy?

How shallow is your home water? Does it change with the season?

Is there a hoist option if needed or are you stuck with a trailer and ingenuity? How steep is your ramp? How busy?

 

I encourage you to update with pictures and projects after you buy.

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1) We need to give Tempest a list of boats he should consider.

 

2) If he is committed to a trailerable boat, how "trailerable" does it have to be? A J22 is a sweet boat, and theoretically trailerable (what mouth full) but not trailerable like a Beetle Cat.

 

3) Venture/MacGregor are out.

Yes! A list would be deadly! Then I can just pester you guys with craigslist adds to scope ;)

 

So here's what I have:

1. 3/4ton truck with a diesel that's outfitted to haul so I don't think weight is a problem.

2. Time. I'm a contractor and I work from home so I have time to sail whenever it's blowing and I can fiddle with the boat whenever

3. A good shop and tools. Lots of tools.

4. Engineering/Design skills. That's what I do for a living so I can modify and improve stuff pretty easily.

 

Here are my limits:

1. Sailing experience. I kinda know what I'm doing but the idea behind getting this boat (over my 14' dingy) is to build more experience and, more importantly, to do it comfortably.

2. Money. I'm saving for a big boat so I would like to keep my initial purchase and repairs around the $5k mark. If I can pick something up that only requires minor repairs that I can do myself, that's perfect but I'm not looking for a 500hr project.

3. Boat launch! The ignorant city just closed the last deep water launch so I'm limited to shallow launches. That's why I'm looking for a boat with a lifting keel.

4. Storage space. I don't want to moore, henths the focus on trailerability. My driveway is probably perfect for a 22'-23' boat. 25'-26' MIGHT fly. Definitely nothing bigger.

5. The lake is long, skinny and can be pretty windy so I'll need something that can beat capably. Would suck to be stuck on the lake because the boat won't sail home into the wind. The lake is crazy deep, if that's relevant; I'd like to keep the boat at the top of it.

 

Here are my preferences/requirements:

1. Cabin. Spartan is fine. A Coleman stove and a portapoty are perfect so as long as the bunk with fit my 6' frame, I'm happy. If the chicks don't dig it, they can get stuffed (I'm done trying to impress women... it's a futile endeavour).

2. Lifting keel, obviously.

3. Something manageable single handed as I don't like having to rely on other people.

 

It doesn't need to be a speed daemon, I'm not going to race it. I just want to screw around on the lake and possibly the ocean and have some fun. I guess I should say that I'm not really going to completely cut any boats off the list for performance reasons unless they are total bags of shit, there will just be a priority sequence.

 

So here's what we have so far... and this list can and will be amended.

 

Top Tier:

CS22

S2-6.9

Santana

 

Mid Level:

Catalina 22

San Juan 23 (?)

O'day

Tanzer 22

Kells 23

 

Maybe but best avoided:

Venture 21

MacGregor

Clipper 21s

 

Macs are inexpensive light boats built in high numbers. Some 22s had steel keels instead of iron. Wiring was bad, fittings inexpensive. 22s and 25s are likely to have soft decks as are many boats that age that haven't had regular TLC, Other threads show they can perform if you fit them out properly. I sail with a three 26 S models. They are not bad boats. Two spend a lot more time under sail then the S2s, Odays, Catalina's, Compac's, SJ and Rob Roy Sunchaser. That reflects the owner as much as the boat, but they go out while the others collect spiders.. They handle OK and do even better with an aftermarket rudder. If the PO spent some time upgrading fittings and sails one might be a great deal . As the comments here show, they don't get any respect. Resale value and purchase price are both low. They are the chevy nova of the muscle car world. Cheap, unimpressive, but give them a heart lung transplant and a hurst, they will make some noise. Decent hardware and sails, You might be better buying a well built Nova then a HemiCuda with a bent frame and cracked block.

 

You know the 26 S or D deck and centerboard will be low maintenance compared to many 'better' boats. The mast is light and deck mount. A fixed keel may not even be launchable without a hoist, depending on the ramp. Not everybody has time to track down their perfect boat, then walk and start again when they find they just drove 5 hours to buy junk. I wouldn't rule out any of these boats if it had your must haves, the PO upgraded and maintained it, it had a box of goodies, and it was solid. If it sat behind the barn filling with water for a decade, was badly modified to fit an amateur shipwright's perceived needs or was cobbled together with parts from the Home Depot chandlery, it doesn't matter how good it once was. .

 

Questions Tempest. How many times will you launch: once a season? Road trips or just eventually relocating?

Are you looking for an occasional overnight alone or do you hope to keep a date happy?

How shallow is your home water? Does it change with the season?

Is there a hoist option if needed or are you stuck with a trailer and ingenuity? How steep is your ramp? How busy?

 

I encourage you to update with pictures and projects after you buy.

I'll probably launch once or twice a week depending on how busy I am.

I'll probably overnight alone mostly but having a lady aboard is a possibility.

Water does change with the season but the lake is 600' deep in places.

There are lots of ramps around the city but none of them are overly deep. As mentioned, the deepest one closed and all the locals just craned their boats in for this season.

Yes, there are a few hoist options.

 

http://globalnews.ca/video/3320899/only-deep-water-boat-launch-in-kelowna-closes

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So you don't need to worry about touching bottom sailing. Deep keel or board when down.

Above average pointing, inboard jib tracks also.

but do need a boat that will slide off the trailer easy and often. No stub keel. Good trailer.

Do you have to drop the mast each time? Very easy to raise mast OEM or with mods. Few stays.

Reefing points or able to handle wind.

6 foot tall and overnighting. Pop top.

Trailer and boat fits in available space.

 

Cabin storage unimportant.

Weight unimportant.

Rating and speed unimportant.

Dagerboard or centerboard equal, won't hit bottom.

Cabin refinement unimportant.

 

Very different list then mine. This should be interesting.

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You will use the boat far more often if it is in the water already. Convenience is deadly.

Very true. Ease of day sailing was a big criteria of mine, I had found myself being picky on weather because of the work involved rigging and lines at the ramp. At that time I couldnt get away on weekdays. I also wanted long weekends away with my girlfriend. My reservoir and Erie have shallow areas. So I got a second boat and slip. I wanted a convenient shoal draft daysailer with a head and galley I could keep ready in a slip but trailer launch at various locations with minimal or no help. I have to plan days off in advance of weather predictions. Can you dry store 2 boats, the 14 for frequent daysails and a 22 for weekends?

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You will use the boat far more often if it is in the water already. Convenience is deadly.

Agree 100% but I need the portability. The unfortunate thing is that I live 2 blocks from the lake but the city is cunty and if I were to drop a block & bouy in the lake they would just tow my boat. Would be nice to walk to the end of the street and swim/paddle out to my boat and not have to pay moorage... (and that's assuming I were able to get into one of the packed yacht clubs in town <_<)

 

So you don't need to worry about touching bottom sailing. Deep keel or board when down.

Above average pointing, inboard jib tracks also.

but do need a boat that will slide off the trailer easy and often. No stub keel. Good trailer.

Do you have to drop the mast each time? Very easy to raise mast OEM or with mods. Few stays.

Reefing points or able to handle wind.

6 foot tall and overnighting. Pop top.

Trailer and boat fits in available space.

 

Cabin storage unimportant.

Weight unimportant.

Rating and speed unimportant.

Dagerboard or centerboard equal, won't hit bottom.

Cabin refinement unimportant.

 

Very different list then mine. This should be interesting.

Yeah, lots of wires between the ramps and home so the mast has to go up/down every time. Not a big deal though. I have the time and I'm a big, strong fella so it's not a huge issue.

 

 

You will use the boat far more often if it is in the water already. Convenience is deadly.

Very true. Ease of day sailing was a big criteria of mine, I had found myself being picky on weather because of the work involved rigging and lines at the ramp. At that time I couldnt get away on weekdays. I also wanted long weekends away with my girlfriend. My reservoir and Erie have shallow areas. So I got a second boat and slip. I wanted a convenient shoal draft daysailer with a head and galley I could keep ready in a slip but trailer launch at various locations with minimal or no help. I have to plan days off in advance of weather predictions. Can you dry store 2 boats, the 14 for frequent daysails and a 22 for weekends?

 

Don't really have that much room and honestly, if I go to the trouble of trailering and rigging a sailboat for a cruise I'm going to take the 20-ish footer over the dingy every time.

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Tempest, I would reconsider the mooring question. If a slip or mooring is not available or affordable, so be it, but Lark and Ish are right, if the boat is in the water, you can be sailing in 5 minutes. Driving to the ramp, rigging, launching and then doing it again, is a pain in the ass.

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At the very least, looking at a boat that's very quick and easy to rig and launch. Probably need to be thinking more in 20' range rather than 23-26' foot range. Maybe something with just a cuddy cabin rather than an enclosed cabin. ODay Mariner, perhaps?

picoday19131b.jpg

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I have had a ODay Mariner. Sailed nice, as I was learning to sail, at that time.

A Santana 23 daggerboard, 1981 model. The fast one. Very tender boat.

Now for the last 15 years an S2 7.9. Wonderful boat, but a lot to launch,if you are going to do it weekly.

With all three models I have put the mast up myself and launched, alone.

The 7.9 was a handful, but it amazing what you cad when a Cat 4 hurricane is coming.

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I agree, I would love to have it in the water but I know that's not an option.

 

I think the S2 7.9 is too much boat, considering the size of my driveway. I should be able to rig a 22-23 foot unit by myself without too much trouble. I just can't get over the prices up here. I think it's a shit combination of the Canadian dollar sucking hard against the US and the fact that people have a false sense that the economy is good. If the interest rates went up a bit I bet there would be lots of boats on the market for cheap but I'm not going to hold my breath. :rolleyes:

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How about a cat boat? Pros: Easy to rig & launch, shallow draft, form stability, commodious cabin for length, chick magnet. Cons: don't point too high.

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The S2 7.9 and Santana 23 are both great boats, but I agree that they're probably a bit bigger than what you're looking for. Just stepping the mast solo would be a handful, and time consuming.

 

Catboat...very interesting idea. Only problem is they're really beamy, about 1/2 the LOA. Have to find one about 17-18 feet, which is a pretty tiny cabin. They go to windward well enough, if your patient.

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How about a cat boat? Pros: Easy to rig & launch, shallow draft, form stability, commodious cabin for length, chick magnet. Cons: don't point too high.

Bah, I appreciate the suggestion but I'm going to pass on that idea. Besides, it's hard enough finding a decent mono hull, let alone a cat.

 

The S2 7.9 and Santana 23 are both great boats, but I agree that they're probably a bit bigger than what you're looking for. Just stepping the mast solo would be a handful, and time consuming.

 

Catboat...very interesting idea. Only problem is they're really beamy, about 1/2 the LOA. Have to find one about 17-18 feet, which is a pretty tiny cabin. They go to windward well enough, if your patient.

Well the 7.9 is a little over 25ft long. The Santana 23 is probably perfect but I'd want one with internal ballast and not water ballast. I'm going to go measure my driveway right now and see what my absolute max OAL with trailer would be.

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I'm guessing Bull meant cat rigged not catamaran.

Oh. Yeah, I guess I could be talked into it.

 

Honestly, the more I look at the S2 7.9 the more I'm loving it. They are really expensive though! Like twice what I was looking to spend. That said, I might get more mileage out of one but the problem is going to be finding one for sale that I don't have to drive all the way across the continent to get.

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I'm guessing Bull meant cat rigged not catamaran.

Oh. Yeah, I guess I could be talked into it.

 

Honestly, the more I look at the S2 7.9 the more I'm loving it. They are really expensive though! Like twice what I was looking to spend. That said, I might get more mileage out of one but the problem is going to be finding one for sale that I don't have to drive all the way across the continent to get.

Set up for racing (typically the Grand Prix model) they go for 10ish+. . I've seen standard models available for less. Solidly built, so a refit is basically checking over and replacing standing and running rigging as needed. Every once in a while a beater comes up for sale for $5000ish, beware of wet core in those. You'd def like the room below.

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I'm guessing Bull meant cat rigged not catamaran.

Oh. Yeah, I guess I could be talked into it.

 

Honestly, the more I look at the S2 7.9 the more I'm loving it. They are really expensive though! Like twice what I was looking to spend. That said, I might get more mileage out of one but the problem is going to be finding one for sale that I don't have to drive all the way across the continent to get.

Set up for racing (typically the Grand Prix model) they go for 10ish+. . I've seen standard models available for less. Solidly built, so a refit is basically checking over and replacing standing and running rigging as needed. Every once in a while a beater comes up for sale for $5000ish, beware of wet core in those. You'd def like the room below.

 

I'm assuming we're talking US prices? There appear to be lots on the eastern coast of the US around the 10-12k USD mark. There's one in south carolina for $5k-ish but it looks like a real piece of shit. Why so much? Just bigger boat or more desirable or what?

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I'm guessing Bull meant cat rigged not catamaran.

Oh. Yeah, I guess I could be talked into it.

 

Honestly, the more I look at the S2 7.9 the more I'm loving it. They are really expensive though! Like twice what I was looking to spend. That said, I might get more mileage out of one but the problem is going to be finding one for sale that I don't have to drive all the way across the continent to get.

Set up for racing (typically the Grand Prix model) they go for 10ish+. . I've seen standard models available for less. Solidly built, so a refit is basically checking over and replacing standing and running rigging as needed. Every once in a while a beater comes up for sale for $5000ish, beware of wet core in those. You'd def like the room below.

I'm assuming we're talking US prices? There appear to be lots on the eastern coast of the US around the 10-12k USD mark. There's one in south carolina for $5k-ish but it looks like a real piece of shit. Why so much? Just bigger boat or more desirable or what?
Massachusetts , but typical.

http://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/43214

They built hundreds of them, so sooner or later you'll find one for a reasonable price within a several hour drive. They're a heavier boat...4000+ lbs, but your truck won't have any problem pulling it.

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They built 550 7.9s

Not that many real nice ones around anymore.

They're very common around the Great Lakes and East Coast. Used to be a few around Florida and Gulf Coast. Don't see them racing here anymore, all the small boat classes died out. I imagine they're just sitting on trailers in backyards. I think only a few would be too trashed to be worth cleaning up and refitting. They were pretty well built boats for their size and market. The smaller 6.9 is nice too, don't see them around much, I don't think S2 built as many. Probably harder to find boats west of the Mississippi, but they built a lot of 7.9s...I'm sure some made it west. It's a trailerable boat, fer crissakes.

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Oh, and please elaborate on the "Wet Core" issue....

S2 and similar (like J-boats) use a sandwich construction using end-grain balsa as the core material. It's very good if it's dry. If it gets wet, it loses strength and eventually rots. Problems are worse up north where a wet core freezes. If the deck feels spongey, or rapping a quater on it is a dull sound rather than a sharp rap, there's likely water in the core. You can also drill test holes (obviously not others boats!) or use a moisture meter.

In the hull, water usually gets in the core due to poorly or unperformed repairs to damage. If the boat is kept in water year round there's also the possibility, or if bilge or rainwater is left in the boat for a prolonged time. In the deck, water intrusion is usually leaking deck hardware, or that which wasn't properly sealed and bedded to begin with (often owner additions).

Small sections aren't too bad to repair by re-coring. Large sections are a big job. Best way to learn to identify is to look over a boat with known core damage. Learn what it feels like to walk on it, learn what it sounds like when you tap with coin. Then compare with a known good boat.

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If you need to trailer launch each time from a shallow ramp, will usually be solo, and don't mind cozy, the oday (Rhodes 19) mariner would be easy to launch. https://www.strictlysailinc.com/product/1973-oday-mariner-2-plus-2-19-sailboat/. New might be pricy. http://www.stuartmarine.com/-mariner-sailboats/40000000-mariner-centerboard/

 

They are seldom inexpensive, but a Wright potter 19 would fit your criteria well I think. 5 feet headroom despite the lack of pop top.

They hold value well.

 

IMO you are thinking too big to launch often.

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I would agree, Lark. If he's launching on a regular basis, especially by himself, 20'ish is going to be much easier to deal with than 23-26'. The bigger boats do offer more room and speed, though. I suggested the Mariner upthread, it might do nicely if OP is down with more of a 'camping' experience. There's some older ones around that should be pretty inexpensive.

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I would agree, Lark. If he's launching on a regular basis, especially by himself, 20'ish is going to be much easier to deal with than 23-26'. The bigger boats do offer more room and speed, though. I suggested the Mariner upthread, it might do nicely if OP is down with more of a 'camping' experience. There's some older ones around that should be pretty inexpensive.

I saw your photo of the open cuddy, but isn't Canada full of flies and mosquitoes like Alaska? 😁. Tempest is 6 foot. Can he fit in the closed cabin?

 

http://www.westwightpotter.com/products/potter-19/

Can one of these be found up there? The slow speed isn't a problem for him and he just might entice a girl to share the night. It has a certain "I don't care what you think, I'm having fun" attitude, and could play on the coast. The ability to handle a breeze was also listed as important.

http://sailingmagazine.net/article-564-west-wight-potter-19.html

 

It's a very different boat then you need Tempest, but it takes me 2 hours to solo rig my Rhodes 22 with in mast furling, tongue extension and 9 stays. It takes me 45 minutes to get the sail up on the Buccaneer 18. Size equals complexity, Mast cranes. Many steps. It's not strength as much as a long procedure list every time you launch.

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I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

It just came off a little condescending but I know what he's getting at.

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k.... Did you buy before 2008 and sell after or something?

 

It's your first boat, huh?

 

Most experiences I have seen, and my own too, is that you are doing well if you recoup most of your purchase price.

 

Your doing doubly well to get much more than that.

 

Some people I have seen can almost make a hobby business out of bargain hunting a decent boat. Then doing some repairs upgrades where they do all the work themselves and are knowledgeable and skilled at that work. Sell the boat before too long of a period or move it somewhere and make a bit what may be called profit.

 

Most boats return fractions on the dollar of what has been spent on them.thr longer you own it the lower the return is.

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If you are religious about fuel stabilizer in the OB fuel tank, you can use the boat fuel in the chainsaw when you eventually cut the boat up. Don't plan on doing better than that financially.

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I think the connection Lakeboy was trying to make is that for every grossly over priced boat on the market, there is an an owner who "just wants to get out what they put into it".

 

It doesn't matter so much how well it's been maintained - it simply comes down to market forces. In my case, I bought a boat at about fair market at the time. Paid $10k for it, which included about $6k in almost new sails. Spent another $6k or so on the bottom $2k on a new outboard, etc, etc, then sold her 4 years later for $7k. Anyways that was the market at that time.

 

You are correct that the cheapest boat boat is usually the most expensive. In the sense that the cost to bring a beater up to the condition of a well maintained example usually exceeds the price differential.

It just came off a little condescending but I know what he's getting at.

 

Sounds like you sold the boat for a lot less than it was worth. Obviously you're going to lose some money but that's a huge hit. I wouldn't expect to get much back on the bottom paint but the motor is going to retain some value. I would have expected that you could get back at least $10k.... Did you buy before 2008 and sell after or something?

 

It's your first boat, huh?

 

Most experiences I have seen, and my own too, is that you are doing well if you recoup most of your purchase price.

 

Your doing doubly well to get much more than that.

 

Some people I have seen can almost make a hobby business out of bargain hunting a decent boat. Then doing some repairs upgrades where they do all the work themselves and are knowledgeable and skilled at that work. Sell the boat before too long of a period or move it somewhere and make a bit what may be called profit.

 

Most boats return fractions on the dollar of what has been spent on them.thr longer you own it the lower the return is.

 

First proper boat, yeah.

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to make a business out of it, I just don't want to feel like I've thrown every penny into a hole a set it on fire. I don't think I'm being naive but I guess time will tell. As you said, it all depends on getting a good boat in the first place.

 

If you are religious about fuel stabilizer in the OB fuel tank, you can use the boat fuel in the chainsaw when you eventually cut the boat up. Don't plan on doing better than that financially.

lol Actually, marine 2-stroke oil can fuck a saw up so then I'd be out a saw too.

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You'll be ok. Just don't act impulsively...be patient. Even if you miss out on a 'deal', another will come along. Look at many boats before you buy, talk to as many peep as you can.

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Tempest, how about of we find just the right boat for you, buy it for you, and if necessary, pay your slip fee? You want a boat, but you also want to be able to sell it in a few years at no loss, so you can buy a bigger one, and you want the convenience of a slip but keep it in your driveway, and the ease of launching of a dinghy, but a cozy cabin. This is getting a little silly.

 

I wish you well.

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Try placing a want to buy ad, with photos of what your looking for. You may be surprised how well it works.

Don't rush into it.

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You'll be ok. Just don't act impulsively...be patient. Even if you miss out on a 'deal', another will come along. Look at many boats before you buy, talk to as many peep as you can.

ahh, the voice of reason. Fuck that. Buy it and learn the easy way.

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Had a couple Santana links for you.

- santana2023.pdf

In Search of the Perfect Sport Sailboat...

Santana 2023 Mother of all Websites

 

 

Here is the Okanagan, home to the only semi desert in Canada in the south end. You see how long the fetch can get when it picks up.

https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@6&key=cvioHpt%7D%7CU

 

There is also the Shushwap and Kootenay Lakes for sailing nearby.

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You'll be ok. Just don't act impulsively...be patient. Even if you miss out on a 'deal', another will come along. Look at many boats before you buy, talk to as many peep as you can.

I've got the fever! ....but that's good advice and that's what I'm trying to do. I can sail the dingy for another season while I look.

 

Try placing a want to buy ad, with photos of what your looking for. You may be surprised how well it works.

Don't rush into it.

Yeah, that's a decent idea, I believe I will do that.

 

Not trying to make this a "Craigslist thread" but here is a used S2 6.8 for price comparison of other things you may be looking at. Good luck.

 

https://toledo.craigslist.org/boa/6034233274.html

I welcome the links. It's great to see what other boats are going for, even if they're too far away for me to go get.

 

Had a couple Santana links for you.

- santana2023.pdf

In Search of the Perfect Sport Sailboat...

Santana 2023 Mother of all Websites

 

 

Here is the Okanagan, home to the only semi desert in Canada in the south end. You see how long the fetch can get when it picks up.

https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@6&key=cvioHpt%7D%7CU

 

There is also the Shushwap and Kootenay Lakes for sailing nearby.

some good info there, thanks. I will look into the Santana a little more as it will probably also be a good fit.

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The Santana 2023 is the new style.

The same hull shape, probably made it the same molds.

I had #107, which I had for 14 years. This style was built in the 1981-1983 time frame. Same speed and PHRF rating as the J24.

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Had a couple Santana links for you.

... ... ...

In Search of the Perfect Sport Sailboat...

 

... ... ...

 

 

 

Yeah, I know that guy. One of those that is so smart he cannot believe he doesn't already know everything. Spent bazoo-loads of money on that boat and went crying that nobody understood how valuable it is. It's fast in light air but....

 

Anybody who says the Santana 23 "has flat aft sections for planing" does not have a fucking clue about hull shape. The S23 hull (and all it's variants pulled out of the same mold) have rounded hull sections for minimum wetted surface area. This is why they are light-air rockets even before spending a lot of money on whizz-bang 'modern' systems. It ain't a sports boat, it doesn't plane and will not ever plane, and everybody I ever heard of who tried to make a "sports boat" out of one did not have any experience in common racing dinghies much less sports boats.

 

I sailed mine plenty of times in heavy air. Any time the boat went faster than about 6 1/2 knots, the stern wave got bigger and bigger until eventually it looked like the opening theme for Hawaii 5-O. Surf, yes. We got surfing rides in the low teens a few times but it became a royal bitch to steer. BTW I sailed this boat thru a 40-knot squall once, and in 30+ many times... there is nothing about "powered up" that I didn't experience in this boat. It's a great boat, but I would be very very leery of fancy improvements done by people who make claims based on misplaced enthusiasm (sounds nicer than "ignorance").

 

Sorry, didn't mean to write a dissertation here.

Instead here is my set of photos... everything from us whupping a Benny 36.7 (in light air of course) to my fiberglass work inside the trunk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43110001@N08/albums/72157643036677233

 

FB- Doug

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Got to race today on a Pocket Rocket 22. I'm honestly thinking that 22-23 feet is a perfect amount of boat for me and a 25-26 foot boat might be overkill for what I'm trying to do The guys I raced with also echoed the concerns about rigging time on a bigger boat.

 

Yeah, the 2023 is a nice looking boat but I think I'm going to try to avoid water ballast. The 23D might be the perfect fit if I can find one. The wind was all over the place today but we got smoked by some 525s in light air. There was also a J30 that destroyed everyone.... even after doing a couple of penalty spins.

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Got to race today on a Pocket Rocket 22. I'm honestly thinking that 22-23 feet is a perfect amount of boat for me and a 25-26 foot boat might be overkill for what I'm trying to do The guys I raced with also echoed the concerns about rigging time on a bigger boat.

 

Yeah, the 2023 is a nice looking boat but I think I'm going to try to avoid water ballast. The 23D might be the perfect fit if I can find one. The wind was all over the place today but we got smoked by some 525s in light air. There was also a J30 that destroyed everyone.... even after doing a couple of penalty spins.

 

The 525 is good in light air which is why there are (or were) a lot of them in Kelowna. Pocket Rockets struggle in light air but are fast in a breeze. J/30's are doggy in light air as well, so it must have been sailed very well or had a lot of luck.

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It was just a weird, gusty day. Wind kept changing speed & direction.

 

Wow, that's different. Never does that here.

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So buddy got back to me with some blurry, low-res photos of his CS22. Sometimes I wonder how badly people actually want to sell their shit.
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post-117817-0-69583100-1491280996_thumb.jpg

post-117817-0-75757500-1491281013_thumb.jpg

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So buddy got back to me with some blurry, low-res photos of his CS22. Sometimes I wonder how badly people actually want to sell their shit.

 

fucken eh! A shagging palace! It's got a fireplace! All you need is a tiger skin bed in front of that and no chick will ever be able to resist...

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Even with the long tongue, that stub keel and stern shape may make it hard to float off the trailer if the ramp is shallow. The bow looks aggressive cool and the bulkhead arch as a mast support plus centerboard below the sole opens the interior nicely.

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If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

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Gotta stove (with tile backer, no less) and a crapper. I think if you parked that near my work you could rent it for a couple grand a month.

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If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Good luck. Hope the Coquihalla highway is free of accidents, unlike last weekend.

The cherry trees are still trying to blossom here.

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If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Seriously look at a Beneteau 235 if you can find one close. Best bang for your buck and cool looking. I had one before my Figaro and loved it. Have owned 5 sailboats and it was one of my favorite boats and the smallest.

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If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Seriously look at a Beneteau 235 if you can find one close. Best bang for your buck and cool looking. I had one before my Figaro and loved it. Have owned 5 sailboats and it was one of my favorite boats and the smallest.

 

 

Nice boat and has a following...but

 

IIRC, the 235 swing keel is extremely rare in North America.

 

A bit on the pricey side compared to other boats mentioned here.

 

Has a reputation as doggy in light air.

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Ha, here's an S2 7.9 for sale. Think he wants way too much considering it doesn't come with a trailer and the Grand Slam has a cored hull too, right? Yuk.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/6072949650.html

 

If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Good luck. Hope the Coquihalla highway is free of accidents, unlike last weekend.

The cherry trees are still trying to blossom here.

 

I'm actually heading to Squamish to visit my brother. Great town!

 

 

If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Seriously look at a Beneteau 235 if you can find one close. Best bang for your buck and cool looking. I had one before my Figaro and loved it. Have owned 5 sailboats and it was one of my favorite boats and the smallest.

 

I'll check it out.

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Ha, here's an S2 7.9 for sale. Think he wants way too much considering it doesn't come with a trailer and the Grand Slam has a cored hull too, right? Yuk.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/6072949650.html

 

If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

Good luck. Hope the Coquihalla highway is free of accidents, unlike last weekend.

The cherry trees are still trying to blossom here.

 

I'm actually heading to Squamish to visit my brother. Great town!

 

 

If it's still around I'll go take a look at it next week but it'll be interesting to see how good of shape it's actually in.

 

 

PM sent.

Call if you have time for a sail or walk the docks.

There is a Cat 22 here, the owners mentioned selling last year to move up.

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Ha, here's an S2 7.9 for sale. Think he wants way too much considering it doesn't come with a trailer and the Grand Slam has a cored hull too, right? Yuk.

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/6072949650.html

 

Why the aversion to cored hulls?

 

If you want a stiff hull, you either go cored or solid with an extensive and expensive stringer/frame network.

 

Maybe a stiff hull isn't important in small trailer sailers IDK - never really considered one.

 

I would hazard a guess that most builders of small trailer sailers went with a chopper gun layup in the interest of economy. Talk about Yuk.

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Most trailer sailors are solid fiberglass hulls.

 

Ha, here's an S2 7.9 for sale. Think he wants way too much considering it doesn't come with a trailer and the Grand Slam has a cored hull too, right? Yuk.

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/6072949650.html

 

Why the aversion to cored hulls?

 

If you want a stiff hull, you either go cored or solid with an extensive and expensive stringer/frame network.

 

Maybe a stiff hull isn't important in small trailer sailers IDK - never really considered one.

 

I would hazard a guess that most builders of small trailer sailers went with a chopper gun layup in the interest of economy. Talk about Yuk.

Trailerables are generally solid hulls, possibly excepting stress points on the transom. Mine has a few stringers that support the sole, and uses thicker glass as needed, cockpit and cabin castings, and basic geometry for stiffness. Cored decks are common, balsa like RKoch discussed or marine plywood. Both obviously require maintenance. Trailer sailors may sit in the driveway without cost or maintenance for years, unlike big keel boats. I think rot is at least as common in a trailer cruiser as a larger boat, and just as hard to replace. This is one area where a freshwater environment is not protective, so dull glass and soft decks may be the biggest issues a thirty year old boat has.

 

As a personal decision process, I knew I'd hold onto my boat for many years. I've been sailing the dinghy since my Dad got it used in the early 80s. I finally replaced my 21 year old Ford SUV only because the transmission couldn't pull a bigger boat. I don't like paying sales tax. I'm not likely to change my habits. Major repairs will become harder as I get old. I'd rather sail.

 

Some trailerables don't even have wood in the deck structure. A road legal beam and less bending stress on a short hull probably help the design guys. Except for few racing designs, standing rigging tension is low. Old dinghy's like my Bucc 18 have fiberglass "beams" and stringers, matting over cardboard tubes cut in half and only used wood for backing plates . The Mac 26 C and D appear to use the overhead as a structural grid laminated to the deck casting, as well as mast supporting bulkheads. My newer Rhodes 22 has a synthetic deck core, few or no boacking plates (ss washers) and uses the head bulkhead as a compression post. It also uses a flotation panel as a core between the hull and the cockpit liner. There are no quarter berths, it is designed for a couple. It is a relatively heavy 22, the compromise. Head and water tanks probably add more than balsa would have saved. A cutout (deck, liner and overhead) of a new boat I snagged when picking mine. It does float. I don't know the materials. The other photo is the Mac liner as structure, from online.

post-120910-0-35778900-1491583117_thumb.jpg

post-120910-0-81052600-1491583129_thumb.jpg

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Most trailer sailors are solid fiberglass hulls.

 

Ha, here's an S2 7.9 for sale. Think he wants way too much considering it doesn't come with a trailer and the Grand Slam has a cored hull too, right? Yuk.

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/6072949650.html

Why the aversion to cored hulls?

 

If you want a stiff hull, you either go cored or solid with an extensive and expensive stringer/frame network.

 

Maybe a stiff hull isn't important in small trailer sailers IDK - never really considered one.

 

I would hazard a guess that most builders of small trailer sailers went with a chopper gun layup in the interest of economy. Talk about Yuk.

Trailerables are generally solid hulls, possibly excepting stress points on the transom. Mine has a few stringers that support the sole, and uses thicker glass as needed, cockpit and cabin castings, and basic geometry for stiffness. Cored decks are common, balsa like RKoch discussed or marine plywood. Both obviously require maintenance. Trailer sailors may sit in the driveway without cost or maintenance for years, unlike big keel boats. I think rot is at least as common in a trailer cruiser as a larger boat, and just as hard to replace. This is one area where a freshwater environment is not protective, so dull glass and soft decks may be the biggest issues a thirty year old boat has.

 

As a personal decision process, I knew I'd hold onto my boat for many years. I've been sailing the dinghy since my Dad got it used in the early 80s. I finally replaced my 21 year old Ford SUV only because the transmission couldn't pull a bigger boat. I don't like paying sales tax. I'm not likely to change my habits. Major repairs will become harder as I get old. I'd rather sail.

 

Some trailerables don't even have wood in the deck structure. A road legal beam and less bending stress on a short hull probably help the design guys. Except for few racing designs, standing rigging tension is low. Old dinghy's like my Bucc 18 have fiberglass "beams" and stringers, matting over cardboard tubes cut in half and only used wood for backing plates . The Mac 26 C and D appear to use the overhead as a structural grid laminated to the deck casting, as well as mast supporting bulkheads. My newer Rhodes 22 has a synthetic deck core, few or no boacking plates (ss washers) and uses the head bulkhead as a compression post. It also uses a flotation panel as a core between the hull and the cockpit liner. There are no quarter berths, it is designed for a couple. It is a relatively heavy 22, the compromise. Head and water tanks probably add more than balsa would have saved. A cutout (deck, liner and overhead) of a new boat I snagged when picking mine. It does float. I don't know the materials. The other photo is the Mac liner as structure, from online.

 

 

Agree with what you say. My post was mainly in response to the "yuk" comment about cored hulls.

 

I will rectify what I said about the superior stiffness of cored constuction - I should have said panel stiffness. Personally, I prefer to not have an oil canning flexi- hull. but that is another story. With decent design It is fairly easy to attain adequate hull stiffness from solid glass construction

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PM sent.

Call if you have time for a sail or walk the docks.

There is a Cat 22 here, the owners mentioned selling last year to move up.

Checking PMs now. I'm sure I'll have time for a get together. I'll probably on the coast for a week or 2.

 

Why the aversion to cored hulls?

 

If you want a stiff hull, you either go cored or solid with an extensive and expensive stringer/frame network.

 

Maybe a stiff hull isn't important in small trailer sailers IDK - never really considered one.

 

I would hazard a guess that most builders of small trailer sailers went with a chopper gun layup in the interest of economy. Talk about Yuk.

I'm just terrified of a boat with hidden things rotting on the inside. It may be an unfounded fear. I read something the other day about blisters and how they are very difficult to spot on a boat that's been out of the water for a while. These are the things nightmares are made of.

 

Trailerables are generally solid hulls, possibly excepting stress points on the transom. Mine has a few stringers that support the sole, and uses thicker glass as needed, cockpit and cabin castings, and basic geometry for stiffness. Cored decks are common, balsa like RKoch discussed or marine plywood. Both obviously require maintenance. Trailer sailors may sit in the driveway without cost or maintenance for years, unlike big keel boats. I think rot is at least as common in a trailer cruiser as a larger boat, and just as hard to replace. This is one area where a freshwater environment is not protective, so dull glass and soft decks may be the biggest issues a thirty year old boat has.

 

As a personal decision process, I knew I'd hold onto my boat for many years. I've been sailing the dinghy since my Dad got it used in the early 80s. I finally replaced my 21 year old Ford SUV only because the transmission couldn't pull a bigger boat. I don't like paying sales tax. I'm not likely to change my habits. Major repairs will become harder as I get old. I'd rather sail.

 

Some trailerables don't even have wood in the deck structure. A road legal beam and less bending stress on a short hull probably help the design guys. Except for few racing designs, standing rigging tension is low. Old dinghy's like my Bucc 18 have fiberglass "beams" and stringers, matting over cardboard tubes cut in half and only used wood for backing plates . The Mac 26 C and D appear to use the overhead as a structural grid laminated to the deck casting, as well as mast supporting bulkheads. My newer Rhodes 22 has a synthetic deck core, few or no boacking plates (ss washers) and uses the head bulkhead as a compression post. It also uses a flotation panel as a core between the hull and the cockpit liner. There are no quarter berths, it is designed for a couple. It is a relatively heavy 22, the compromise. Head and water tanks probably add more than balsa would have saved. A cutout (deck, liner and overhead) of a new boat I snagged when picking mine. It does float. I don't know the materials. The other photo is the Mac liner as structure, from online.

I also hate sales tax and, like you, I try to buy good things that hold their value. I bought a '93 Dodge W250 with a cummins and apparently it's worth more now than it was when I paid for it. I made money on an '82 Landcruiser too. Probably won't be as lucky with the boat :P

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I saw some CS 22 listed back east, my sister is thinking about a boat now. Looking at the prices back there, the owner may be more flexible.

Sail Boat | sailboats | Barrie | Kijiji

Mint Conditon CS22 - Boat, Motor and Trailer Package | sailboats | Barrie | Kijiji

Sailboat for sale...Must sell, I am a two boat owner | sailboats | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

Canadian Sailcraft CS 22 Swing Keel 22 Foot | sailboats | Hamilton | Kijiji

CS 22 for sale | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

CS 22 FOR SALE | sailboats | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

 

When you look at here are some things to check

sails-check for wear by the size of the stitch holes when you look at them with the light coming through. New sails for main and jib are 3 to 4k

outboard- 9.9 or 15 but 6 is a little small

wire stays-ask if original and check for broken wire ends, fitting wear or crazing 700+- bucks for new

gel coat- can you see matting from the outside or is it worn out, cracked at the mast base or are there any impacts to investigate

winches, chainplates and fittings-are they pitted and is there any leaks to the inside

mast-eyeball it for any kink from impacts

windows-look for crazing from uv damage and leaks from original bedding

trailer-10 year old tires? 2200 or 2500 lb axle? are the pads leaving a dip in the hull?

thruhull- any? brass, plastic?

cushions been replaced or recovered?- 1k and up

autopilot? mainsail cover, furler, instruments updated lines,spinnaker?-bonus

 

Cheers

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So buddy got back to me with some blurry, low-res photos of his CS22. Sometimes I wonder how badly people actually want to sell their shit.

 

post-117817-0-74907300-1491280953_thumb.

 

^^^^^ A STOVE??!!! ^^^^^^ .....you can anchor off Kits Point as a year 'round liveaboard with that thing. What a chick magnet! They'll absolutely LOVE the porta pottie thing appres sex, eh?

 

 

"I live on my yacht".

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I saw some CS 22 listed back east, my sister is thinking about a boat now. Looking at the prices back there, the owner may be more flexible.

Sail Boat | sailboats | Barrie | Kijiji

Mint Conditon CS22 - Boat, Motor and Trailer Package | sailboats | Barrie | Kijiji

Sailboat for sale...Must sell, I am a two boat owner | sailboats | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

Canadian Sailcraft CS 22 Swing Keel 22 Foot | sailboats | Hamilton | Kijiji

CS 22 for sale | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

CS 22 FOR SALE | sailboats | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

 

When you look at here are some things to check

sails-check for wear by the size of the stitch holes when you look at them with the light coming through. New sails for main and jib are 3 to 4k

outboard- 9.9 or 15 but 6 is a little small

wire stays-ask if original and check for broken wire ends, fitting wear or crazing 700+- bucks for new

gel coat- can you see matting from the outside or is it worn out, cracked at the mast base or are there any impacts to investigate

winches, chainplates and fittings-are they pitted and is there any leaks to the inside

mast-eyeball it for any kink from impacts

windows-look for crazing from uv damage and leaks from original bedding

trailer-10 year old tires? 2200 or 2500 lb axle? are the pads leaving a dip in the hull?

thruhull- any? brass, plastic?

cushions been replaced or recovered?- 1k and up

autopilot? mainsail cover, furler, instruments updated lines,spinnaker?-bonus

 

Cheers

Holy crap.... I might have to go to Onterrible for a boat. It would cost me $1000 in fuel to drag it back but man are there ever some nice looking boats at reasonable prices out there!

 

Those Ontario prices reinforce that BC prices are crazoid.

No. Kidding. BC is fucked.

 

^^^^^ A STOVE??!!! ^^^^^^ .....you can anchor off Kits Point as a year 'round liveaboard with that thing. What a chick magnet! They'll absolutely LOVE the porta pottie thing appres sex, eh?

lol

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Thoughts? They've been trying to sell this boat for a while.

 

https://classifieds.castanet.net/details/san_juan_21_sailboat_with_trailer/2581974/

Price may reflect the racing sail condition and be reasonable I think. If the sails are good you would prefer he didn't sell them separately and leave you old rags to maximize his profit. It looks like the boat may have seen regular use (and care). Other responses may reflect more first hand knowledge, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I think the mark II here would fit your goals well, be easy to launch, etc. I understand weak points to be rudder gudgeons, mast step and gooseneck which should be easy to inspect. If that white handle on the aft cockpit is an add on, look for quality and method. It is in a very ergonomic place. One comes factory on my boat on the cabin side there, and and is fantastic when boarding from a dock in the dark. A Mark I (more cockpit, less cabin, deck house) sits near mine in the marina, It gets some evening use and seems a good boat.

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Thoughts? They've been trying to sell this boat for a while.

 

https://classifieds.castanet.net/details/san_juan_21_sailboat_with_trailer/2581974/

For an asking price, it's not out of line since boat, trailer, sails are in good condition and it includes motor. He might take a lower offer. San Juan 21 is somewhat similar to Cat 22 in quality and performance.

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http://www.tommysolomon.com/photos/1981_san_juan_21_mark_ii_racing_refit#nav

Crazy cool project boat. The yard also shows the rewiring of a Morgan 30. Should be putting the final touches on my boat (wax, couple missing screws) for Friday launch but got distracted.

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Thoughts? They've been trying to sell this boat for a while.

 

https://classifieds.castanet.net/details/san_juan_21_sailboat_with_trailer/2581974/

For an asking price, it's not out of line since boat, trailer, sails are in good condition and it includes motor. He might take a lower offer. San Juan 21 is somewhat similar to Cat 22 in quality and performance.

 

 

The Cat22 is much heavier and much roomier, the San Juan 21's best point is light air sailing. They have a relatively shallow cockpit and I personally find them uncomfortable, but a lot of people like them. They handle quite well, a bit bouncy in a chop. There is a racing class, so a boat that is in decent shape will always be sellable. This one looks like it's on a good trailer, which is a big plus.

 

FB- Doug

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It is a tribute to the 70's, even has some shag in the bilge. The boat would definitely need a paint job. Looks like decent sails from what I can see, but zero creature comforts.

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I had an 45 gal drum that colour.... :)

Is that an Eska outboard?

Think my grandpa had the matching suit

 

No, I think he said Suzuki 4hp

 

It is a tribute to the 70's, even has some shag in the bilge. The boat would definitely need a paint job. Looks like decent sails from what I can see, but zero creature comforts.

I dont care about the colour but it doesnt look like it has any cushions or anything.

 

so far that Kells 23 looks like the best boat.

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Used boat shopping is full of disappointment. It's like online dating. Each girl seems wonderful til you see the goods and realize their limitations. Keep looking, finally you will find something worth taking home for a while, There is no substitute for crawling around in dirty boats. (Analogy still works). See what you like, what you can sleep in, what you can launch alone in an hour or less.

 

There are many unloved boats in rural midwestern America, we like gasoline too much. I kept the old boat partially because the best financial option was selling the sails and trailer, cutting up the boat and spars.. I didn't want to kill a perfectly good boat. What is involved in importing? .

 

Is this anywhere near you? It has a pocket cruiser interior and is easy to launch. She is very firm in a breeze, until disaster, but it takes a lot of wind and refusal to reef before you hit the point of no return. It won't sink. Perhaps an older sister is a bit cheaper? http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/64610 Windage on the hull may make docking or pulling on the trailer without drifting spideways challenging. Expect a bit slower than the San Juan, but they are all slow compared to a powerboat.

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If you are going to keep a boat that size on Okanagan lake I'd get a Santana 525 - I believe Kelowna has the biggest fleet in the world. It's a very fast old boat - PHRF in the 180's IIRC which is about 10 sec. faster than my old Kirby QT.

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If you are going to keep a boat that size on Okanagan lake I'd get a Santana 525 - I believe Kelowna has the biggest fleet in the world. It's a very fast old boat - PHRF in the 180's IIRC which is about 10 sec. faster than my old Kirby QT.

He needs to ramp launch. Probably do the mast-stepping solo.

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Used boat shopping is full of disappointment. It's like online dating. Each girl seems wonderful til you see the goods and realize their limitations. Keep looking, finally you will find something worth taking home for a while, There is no substitute for crawling around in dirty boats. (Analogy still works). See what you like, what you can sleep in, what you can launch alone in an hour or less.

 

There are many unloved boats in rural midwestern America, we like gasoline too much. I kept the old boat partially because the best financial option was selling the sails and trailer, cutting up the boat and spars.. I didn't want to kill a perfectly good boat. What is involved in importing? .

 

Is this anywhere near you? It has a pocket cruiser interior and is easy to launch. She is very firm in a breeze, until disaster, but it takes a lot of wind and refusal to reef before you hit the point of no return. It won't sink. Perhaps an older sister is a bit cheaper? http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/64610 Windage on the hull may make docking or pulling on the trailer without drifting spideways challenging. Expect a bit slower than the San Juan, but they are all slow compared to a powerboat.

lol Yep, dating up here is equally as frustrating as trying to find a boat.

 

Nope, that unit is in Georgia. Long, long way from here. Importing probably won't be hard at all but I'm waiting on a passport. If there is a decent boat anywhere from Alberta to Oregon that is within range for a pickup.

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Just so we are clear, I owned/launched an S2 7.9 for 2 years myself. It IS possible to raise the mast solo, and launching the S2 7.9 is a breeze, but NO I would NOT recommend it as a "trailer day sailor." I got good at launching the boat, and the best I could muster was about 1.5 hours from launch to sailing. I'm sure I could maybe have gotten that to 1 hour, but it'd have been truly scrambling, not my idea of a relaxing day sailing. Plus the boat prefers the keel fully down, which draws 5 feet... launching is shallow at 18 inches, but to sail the boat requires consistent depth over 5 feet (if you can't get it).

 

There are plenty of good S2 7.9s around, but you gotta travel for them. List is short now, best time to buy is late winter.

If you are still interested in them (and for your purposes I would say the 6.9 would be a better choice, but I digress)... you can find them here:

http://www.s279.org/boatsforsal.html

 

Lots of different boats thrown at you... I'd say that a cat boat is at one end, and the S2 7.9 is nearly at the other.

 

Interesting boats in between? Oday 222, Oday 192, Oday 22, Oday 23, Precision 23, 21, 18, Catalina Capri 18, 22, Compac 19, 23, Cal 22, Rhodes 22, Hunter 22 (swing keel), Hunter 23 (wing keel), Hunter 25 (wing keel), Oday 26 (centerboard), S2 6.7, 6.9... Lets say for trailer day sails, that J boats and most fixed fin keels are out.

 

Lots of options, but you have to find the deal that works best for your Northern dollar.

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Just so we are clear, I owned/launched an S2 7.9 for 2 years myself. It IS possible to raise the mast solo, and launching the S2 7.9 is a breeze, but NO I would NOT recommend it as a "trailer day sailor." I got good at launching the boat, and the best I could muster was about 1.5 hours from launch to sailing. I'm sure I could maybe have gotten that to 1 hour, but it'd have been truly scrambling, not my idea of a relaxing day sailing. Plus the boat prefers the keel fully down, which draws 5 feet... launching is shallow at 18 inches, but to sail the boat requires consistent depth over 5 feet (if you can't get it).

 

There are plenty of good S2 7.9s around, but you gotta travel for them. List is short now, best time to buy is late winter.

If you are still interested in them (and for your purposes I would say the 6.9 would be a better choice, but I digress)... you can find them here:

http://www.s279.org/boatsforsal.html

 

Lots of different boats thrown at you... I'd say that a cat boat is at one end, and the S2 7.9 is nearly at the other.

 

Interesting boats in between? Oday 222, Oday 192, Oday 22, Oday 23, Precision 23, 21, 18, Catalina Capri 18, 22, Compac 19, 23, Cal 22, Rhodes 22, Hunter 22 (swing keel), Hunter 23 (wing keel), Hunter 25 (wing keel), Oday 26 (centerboard), S2 6.7, 6.9... Lets say for trailer day sails, that J boats and most fixed fin keels are out.

 

Lots of options, but you have to find the deal that works best for your Northern dollar.

Definitely some more boats there for me to research.

 

It's good to hear about your experience with the S2 7.9 and it sounds like you've echoed what the other guys were saying. The size would be awesome but yeah, 1-2hrs of rigging is a lot. I think somewhere between 21 and 23 feet is going to be the sweet spot for me, especially if I can find something with a nice wide beam (that may be asking too much) but at this point I'm going to just keep looking and researching until I find something good. It may not happen this season. I was looking late winter of this year and there wasn't much. I was expecting spring to be the time for all the listings... when people start doing yardwork around sitting boats. In any case, I'll keep posting what I find in here and I really appreciate everyones feedback :)

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