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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Tempest

Went to look at a Catalina 22....

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1 minute ago, 12 metre said:

But like I said, with a longboard you not only get a smooth and fair surface, I think you will find it a lot quicker than an RO sander - at least an electric one.  I've never used an air one so I can't say about those. 

I imagine that'll work fine if the inconsistencies are within' a 32nd to a 16th of an inch but anything over that and you're filling holes or sanding through the gel coat.  This is, of course, just an assumption based on my limited knowledge.  Sounds like I'm making work for myself one way or another.

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

I imagine that'll work fine if the inconsistencies are within' a 32nd to a 16th of an inch but anything over that and you're filling holes or sanding through the gel coat.  This is, of course, just an assumption based on my limited knowledge.  Sounds like I'm making work for myself one way or another.

You're right.  I was wondering how this thread drifted off into the realm of longboarding - which seemed like a stretch given the type of boat and the reason you bought it.  But since it had been brought up...

I wouldn't use one on bare fiberglass or gel coat - but they work great on fairing compounds.

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Buy all the wire and fittings from the local guy. Don't beat a up a niche market small local operator over $100. 

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5 hours ago, Tempest said:

I imagine that'll work fine if the inconsistencies are within' a 32nd to a 16th of an inch but anything over that and you're filling holes or sanding through the gel coat.  This is, of course, just an assumption based on my limited knowledge.  Sounds like I'm making work for myself one way or another.

This is one reason why I said, don't worry about smoothing the bottom... for now. It will make a much smaller difference in how well the boat sails than many other improvements you can make, with far less time invested. Get the rigging all sorted out, good sails, get familiar with the boat's characteristics.

The difference between a rough paint job and perfectly smooth & faired bottom is less than the difference you'd make with better sails , which is less than the difference you'd make with proper tuning (which requires proper standing rigging), which is less than the difference you'd make getting the running rigging sorted out.

Get the boat sailing first, then grab the low-hanging fruit. It's certainly a much better boat than the Catalina 22 you first set your sights on, and worth putting in a good bit of upgrading and sweat equity. I'm just suggesting that you spend more time sailing, this first season, and less time working/spending on things that won't make that big a difference.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Buy all the wire and fittings from the local guy. Don't beat a up a niche market small local operator over $100. 

Be glad there is a guy nearby.   The last sailboat shop in the entire state of Indiana (as far as I know) just failed.    There is one by Cincinnati and a couple on Ohio's north coast.   A powerboat guy told me it wasn't safe to hoist a sailboat to do bottom work, the hull would fold up.    Obviously he managed to break a sailboat in half with a sling, and limits himself to powerboats now.    The result of losing the shops is either you do it yourself or spend your vacation road trip fixing instead of sailing.    Shop local if they offer services you may ever use.   Shop local if you may ever want parts without waiting 5 days for delivery.   Shop local if pictures online aren't enough for you to figure out what you needed.    How many of us have a few spare parts bought because the picture looked like it could work and return postage was as expensive as the part?

Same thing for bike parts.   The shop in my town failed from online sales, so I now have to drive an hour four times to get a bike tuned, or get better at indexing gears myself.   There was even a long distance bike trail just a mile from the shop!   

 

In addition to SteamFlyers logic, you've dinghy launched so you know how hard it is to get even a light boat on a trailer in a crosswind all by yourself without scratching something.    If you launch several times a season and pull out tired when it's windy your work will need constant tending.    Concentrate on the topside, after you get it sailing and determine if any hardware should be moved for better single handing.

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Tempest, your rigger's prices seem super competitive (good) to me, and it makes me happy to see you addressing this now. The advantage to this route is that it gets done and gets you on the water sooner.  The advantage to synthetic route is elitism and a stiffer boat for roughly the same cost. :)  If you decide to convert in a couple years all those SS turnbuckles are still a good, reusable. investment.  

After you get the rigging and the spreaders done, I'd splash it. New sails will improve the boat 100%, but without a baseline to compare them with it won't be obvious on your first boat, never mind a new-to-you boat.  run whatcha got, chill some cold ones and get 'er splashed!  

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3 minutes ago, Skol said:

Tempest, your rigger's prices seem super competitive (good) to me, and it makes me happy to see you addressing this now. The advantage to this route is that it gets done and gets you on the water sooner.  The advantage to synthetic route is elitism and a stiffer boat for roughly the same cost. :)  If you decide to convert in a couple years all those SS turnbuckles are still a good, reusable. investment.  

After you get the rigging and the spreaders done, I'd splash it. New sails will improve the boat 100%, but without a baseline to compare them with it won't be obvious on your first boat, never mind a new-to-you boat.  run whatcha got, chill some cold ones and get 'er splashed!  

Skol.   How does synthetic compare for mast stepping alone?   Which is easier to raise without snagging or kinking?

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7 minutes ago, Lark said:

Skol.   How does synthetic compare for mast stepping alone?   Which is easier to raise without snagging or kinking?


Lark, my boat experience is all in-water, so I don't have direct experience for you.   What I know is that the stuff that's marketed as "dux" is a lot more stiff than regular amsteel. it's not as stiff as wire but it shouldn't snag because of kinking while laying untensioned.  A bonus for regular Amsteel I think would be keeping it neatly coiled on deck while the stick is down.  I'm a little OCD so maybe that's just me. 

the WLL for amsteel, dux, and dyneema branded ropes are all so high that I wouldn't give a second thought to UV exposure and the 5 yrs of hard use.  My first handling of amsteel was with jeeps and land rovers. winching 5k of truck through hub-deep mud filled with roots and rocks is a lot scarier to me than popping a shroud.  broken winch cables have been known to slice through people.  when synthetic pops it just falls to the ground. the couple times I've seen it fail there was damage to rig or tree from stored energy in kinetic straps, not the rope itself.  

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2 minutes ago, Skol said:


Lark, my boat experience is all in-water, so I don't have direct experience for you.   What I know is that the stuff that's marketed as "dux" is a lot more stiff than regular amsteel. it's not as stiff as wire but it shouldn't snag because of kinking while laying untensioned.  A bonus for regular Amsteel I think would be keeping it neatly coiled on deck while the stick is down.  I'm a little OCD so maybe that's just me. 

the WLL for amsteel, dux, and dyneema branded ropes are all so high that I wouldn't give a second thought to UV exposure and the 5 yrs of hard use.  My first handling of amsteel was with jeeps and land rovers. winching 5k of truck through hub-deep mud filled with roots and rocks is a lot scarier to me than popping a shroud.  broken winch cables have been known to slice through people.  when synthetic pops it just falls to the ground. the couple times I've seen it fail there was damage to rig or tree from stored energy in kinetic straps, not the rope itself.  

Thanks.    Understand on the recoil thing.    Nothing to hide behind as you describe.   The problem of living in powerboat country, is I seldom get to see the new things.

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On 5/26/2017 at 1:09 AM, 12 metre said:

You're right.  I was wondering how this thread drifted off into the realm of longboarding - which seemed like a stretch given the type of boat and the reason you bought it.  But since it had been brought up...

I wouldn't use one on bare fiberglass or gel coat - but they work great on fairing compounds.

Yeah, that's what I figured.  I'll avoid the longboard for now.

On 5/26/2017 at 4:12 AM, Dex Sawash said:

Buy all the wire and fittings from the local guy. Don't beat a up a niche market small local operator over $100. 

I agree.  I actually got a quote from Binnacle and he's cheaper by quite a bit so I'm definitely shopping local on this one.  It was just the jump in price on the turnbuckles that got me but after more looking I see that he's right on the money.

On 5/26/2017 at 5:46 AM, Steam Flyer said:

This is one reason why I said, don't worry about smoothing the bottom... for now. It will make a much smaller difference in how well the boat sails than many other improvements you can make, with far less time invested. Get the rigging all sorted out, good sails, get familiar with the boat's characteristics.

The difference between a rough paint job and perfectly smooth & faired bottom is less than the difference you'd make with better sails , which is less than the difference you'd make with proper tuning (which requires proper standing rigging), which is less than the difference you'd make getting the running rigging sorted out.

Get the boat sailing first, then grab the low-hanging fruit. It's certainly a much better boat than the Catalina 22 you first set your sights on, and worth putting in a good bit of upgrading and sweat equity. I'm just suggesting that you spend more time sailing, this first season, and less time working/spending on things that won't make that big a difference.

FB- Doug

Yeah, I'm going to avoid paint for this season but I'll be hitting it in the fall or spring.  The reason I wanted to paint wasn't to smooth out the bottom, it was to seal it and prevent blistering.  Sounds like that won't be a problem for now but I will be coating it in the future.

In any case, it's good advice and I'll take it ;)

On 5/26/2017 at 6:53 AM, Lark said:

Be glad there is a guy nearby.   The last sailboat shop in the entire state of Indiana (as far as I know) just failed.    There is one by Cincinnati and a couple on Ohio's north coast.   A powerboat guy told me it wasn't safe to hoist a sailboat to do bottom work, the hull would fold up.    Obviously he managed to break a sailboat in half with a sling, and limits himself to powerboats now.    The result of losing the shops is either you do it yourself or spend your vacation road trip fixing instead of sailing.    Shop local if they offer services you may ever use.   Shop local if you may ever want parts without waiting 5 days for delivery.   Shop local if pictures online aren't enough for you to figure out what you needed.    How many of us have a few spare parts bought because the picture looked like it could work and return postage was as expensive as the part?

Same thing for bike parts.   The shop in my town failed from online sales, so I now have to drive an hour four times to get a bike tuned, or get better at indexing gears myself.   There was even a long distance bike trail just a mile from the shop!   

 

In addition to SteamFlyers logic, you've dinghy launched so you know how hard it is to get even a light boat on a trailer in a crosswind all by yourself without scratching something.    If you launch several times a season and pull out tired when it's windy your work will need constant tending.    Concentrate on the topside, after you get it sailing and determine if any hardware should be moved for better single handing.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do.  The trailer is nice in that it has the guide for the keel which should be very helpful for loading.  I'll get the bunks replaced with some nice fresh carpet which should help with how she sits on the trailer and help with sliding on and off.

On 5/26/2017 at 6:58 AM, Skol said:

Tempest, your rigger's prices seem super competitive (good) to me, and it makes me happy to see you addressing this now. The advantage to this route is that it gets done and gets you on the water sooner.  The advantage to synthetic route is elitism and a stiffer boat for roughly the same cost. :)  If you decide to convert in a couple years all those SS turnbuckles are still a good, reusable. investment.  

After you get the rigging and the spreaders done, I'd splash it. New sails will improve the boat 100%, but without a baseline to compare them with it won't be obvious on your first boat, never mind a new-to-you boat.  run whatcha got, chill some cold ones and get 'er splashed!  

Yep, just going to order that spreader kit tomorrow from Dwyer and we're going to do the rigging as soon as I get them on.  I'm going to stick with steel cables for now since it'll basically be a one time investment on this boat.  Guessing someone else will be sailing her in 10-15 years.  I'm not super concerned about the extra weight aloft and it's something I just won't have to worry about (unlike chaffing with synthetic).

I'm fixing the upper rudder gudgeon right now and I will be checking all of the deck hardware for fastener tightness and strength before raising the mast for the first time.  Should have time to get all of that done before the spreaders get here.  Might even have time to fix some of those deck cracks too if I get some white marine tex locally and I'll try to get a cut an polish done too.  I want her to look good!

P_20170529_200609.jpg

P_20170529_200558.jpg

P_20170529_200620.jpg

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:wacko: It never ends.  Apparently I'm missing the gooseneck slide as well and the gooseneck is all bent up.  Looks like this  Rig-Rite K-1685A will do the trick but I'm guessing they'll want an arm and a leg for it.  Any better places than Rig-Rite to source these parts?

P_20170530_004203.jpg

D_Gooseneck_Std.html_txt_K-1685a.gif

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Given the age of the boat, just be thankful that someone still makes them :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Crash said:

Given the age of the boat, just be thankful that someone still makes them :rolleyes:

That remains to be seen.  They said they were low on stock and couldn't give me a price so we'll see if I hear back from them.  May just have to get something fabricated here in town.  :/

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If you have to do that, why not convert to a fixed goose neck (like most boats today) with a cunningham cringle installed in the main.  Its a much faster and simpler way to achieve luff tension on the main....

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That's an interesting idea.  I actually heard back from Rig-Rite and was shocked to find that they only want $50 for the slider so I figured I'd just go ahead and buy it.  I'm guessing a fixed neck and cringle setup would end up being a lot more expensive.  Think I'm going to stick with the slider for now since it seems like the quickest way to get me out on the water.

I ordered my spreaders today and I spoke with someone at Garhauer about a block and tackle setup.  He said something with a SWL of 1000lbs would be sufficient.  I ran some calculations through the Harken mainsheet calculator and it was giving me higher numbers but I was running the calculations with a wind speed of 40knts.  Obviously 40-50knts are worst case scenario and on the edge of survival conditions.  Also, at some point the boat is going to heel and depower the main so I had no idea what wind speed to use.

In any case, the Garhauer stuff looks very nice and the prices are very reasonable so I'll be placing an order with them this week (unless the PO gets back to me and says she found the tackle in the garage or something).

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 ry=400

First of all, congratulations on the boat and thanks for the thread updates.  I had a C22 and your interior pics make it clear that there's just more of a finished, full-size sailboat with the Ericson.  

You might as well go with upgraded gudgeons and pintles, I think Catalina Direct has been brought up but the pic above is their gudgeons for a Capri 25.  I did the 22 ones and they were pretty and of course functional.  They will have goosenecks too but your boom profile would likely be different.  

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6 minutes ago, Owen said:

 ry=400

First of all, congratulations on the boat and thanks for the thread updates.  I had a C22 and your interior pics make it clear that there's just more of a finished, full-size sailboat with the Ericson.  

You might as well go with upgraded gudgeons and pintles, I think Catalina Direct has been brought up but the pic above is their gudgeons for a Capri 25.  I did the 22 ones and they were pretty and of course functional.  They will have goosenecks too but your boom profile would likely be different.  

Thanks! :D and no problem!  I appreciate everyone here being so tolerant of my noob questions.  Yeah, I'm VERY happy with my decision and can't wait to get her out on the water.

I probably should but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew at this point.  I've taken the hammer to the gudgeon and got it much straighter than it was. so I think it'll be OK to go back on.  Besides, if I upgrade the lower gudgeon it means more holes to fill and re-drill.

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41 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Thanks! :D and no problem!  I appreciate everyone here being so tolerant of my noob questions.  Yeah, I'm VERY happy with my decision and can't wait to get her out on the water.

I probably should but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew at this point.  I've taken the hammer to the gudgeon and got it much straighter than it was. so I think it'll be OK to go back on.  Besides, if I upgrade the lower gudgeon it means more holes to fill and re-drill.

What was there for a backing plate for your gudgeon when you removed it ?

Consider a mast head LED light for anchoring. Not too pricey and some have sensors for dusk.

Come down here in the fall and you can race her, I'll get some crew for you and see how she does in our club race.

I have a gennaker that might fit, you can try out, too.

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

What was there for a backing plate for your gudgeon when you removed it ?

Consider a mast head LED light for anchoring. Not too pricey and some have sensors for dusk.

Come down here in the fall and you can race her, I'll get some crew for you and see how she does in our club race.

I have a gennaker that might fit, you can try out, too.

Cheers

Nothing :blink:  I'm assuming you mean between the gudgeon and the transom but there was nothing on the opposite side of the transom either.  I have some 3/32" stainless in the garage so I was going to make a backing plate for the inside of the cockpit but was just going to leave the gudgeon flush with the transom on the outside after fixing the glass with some Marine-Tex (and calking with sealant).

Yessir!  There's a mast light on the front of the mast about half way up.  You mean I should put a light right at the top?  I'm definitely going to replace all of the lights with LEDs.  probably just order a bunch off eBay but I haven't pulled any covers off yet to see what kind of bulbs are in there.

Thanks for the invite!  I'll see what kind of shape I have everything in by fall but that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Awesome!!  I believe that would save me from buying a chute which would be tre-cool!  Thanks Norse!  I have a bunch of sails that I need to get onto the boat just to figure out what I have.  I'll be posting pics once I get to that point.

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14 hours ago, Tempest said:

Nothing :blink:  I'm assuming you mean between the gudgeon and the transom but there was nothing on the opposite side of the transom either.  I have some 3/32" stainless in the garage so I was going to make a backing plate for the inside of the cockpit but was just going to leave the gudgeon flush with the transom on the outside after fixing the glass with some Marine-Tex (and calking with sealant).

Yessir!  There's a mast light on the front of the mast about half way up.  You mean I should put a light right at the top?  I'm definitely going to replace all of the lights with LEDs.  probably just order a bunch off eBay but I haven't pulled any covers off yet to see what kind of bulbs are in there.

Thanks for the invite!  I'll see what kind of shape I have everything in by fall but that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Awesome!!  I believe that would save me from buying a chute which would be tre-cool!  Thanks Norse!  I have a bunch of sails that I need to get onto the boat just to figure out what I have.  I'll be posting pics once I get to that point.

The light on the front of the mast will be a steaming light. I have a masthead light that I use about once a year, the rest of the time I hang a Davis Mega-light with LED off the topping lift, over the back end of the boom. I feel much safer from boating drunks with a light at a height that they may see. 

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The light on the front of the mast will be a steaming light. I have a masthead light that I use about once a year, the rest of the time I hang a Davis Mega-light with LED off the topping lift, over the back end of the boom. I feel much safer from boating drunks with a light at a height that they may see. 

I was looking into the regulations last night and I agree about the lights being at eye level.  Looks like you're supposed to have a 360° white light at the top of the mast for anchor but who's going to see that?  I'd almost rather just leave all of the running lights on while at anchor.  Doesn't look like I have a white stern light though.  Going to have to do something about that.

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Light at top of mast to satisfy the law, cheap solar powered garden lights fore and aft to cast light on the deck and topsides.  

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3 hours ago, Tempest said:

I was looking into the regulations last night and I agree about the lights being at eye level.  Looks like you're supposed to have a 360° white light at the top of the mast for anchor but who's going to see that?  I'd almost rather just leave all of the running lights on while at anchor.  Doesn't look like I have a white stern light though.  Going to have to do something about that.

So just to talk some numbers here...rule of thumb as a RIO in F-14 Tomcats was 1 degree of look angle equals 1000 ft of altitude at 10 miles.  So at 1 mile, 1 degree of lookup is 100 ft.  At half a mile 1 degree of lookup is 50 feet.  An Ericson 23's masthead is about 30 feet off the water.  So at 1/4 mile, its only 1 degree up from the horizontal.  At an 1/8 of a mile its 2 degrees up.  At a 1/16th of a mile its 4 degrees up.  1/16 of a nautical mile is 900 feet.  I think your masthead light will be seen by any boater who is sober and competent.  You can help not sober and incompetent, no matter what you do....short of shining a high powered spot light directly into their eyes!  

Monocular vision is about 30 degrees in all directions (so 30 degrees up) and peripheral vision is about 60 degrees up.  So a masthead light, or a light at eye level are equally "seeable" by a human...

Yes, if you get close enough...the masthead light will drop out of "view"....but that range is around 113 ft for monocular vison, and 50 feet for peripheral vison...for an Ericson 23.... 

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The gently swaying mast head light is also more visible against the shore lights when another boat comes in to anchor.

Forgot to ask you if you renamed her or not.

 

I learned today that Gillette shave gel [for sensitive skin] works better than my orange hand cleaner on polyester resin, when you run out of acetone. It even cleans epoxy goo, but not near as good, it is missing an ingredient. Seriously!:D

 

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26 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

The gently swaying mast head light is also more visible against the shore lights when another boat comes in to anchor.

Forgot to ask you if you renamed her or not.

 

I learned today that Gillette shave gel [for sensitive skin] works better than my orange hand cleaner on polyester resin, when you run out of acetone. It even cleans epoxy goo, but not near as good, it is missing an ingredient. Seriously!:D

 

Do you have to shave your hands often? How did you discover this?

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2 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

The gently swaying mast head light is also more visible against the shore lights when another boat comes in to anchor.

Forgot to ask you if you renamed her or not.

 

I learned today that Gillette shave gel [for sensitive skin] works better than my orange hand cleaner on polyester resin, when you run out of acetone. It even cleans epoxy goo, but not near as good, it is missing an ingredient. Seriously!:D

 

For epoxy goo, simple white vinegar beats acetone - hands down.  Seriously!

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On 5/26/2017 at 8:53 PM, Lark said:

 ...The last sailboat shop in the entire state of Indiana (as far as I know) just failed.
...

This doesn't help the OP, but FYI Lark, Sailrite is in Columbia City, Indiana.  While they don't sell sailboats themselves, they certainly sell just about everything you'd need to repair rigging and sails on one! :)

Don't think they get many in-person customer visits, but I've been to both their old and new warehouses, and the new one is definitely one of the nicest, most well-organized warehouses I've ever been inside.

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1 hour ago, nlmasopust said:

This doesn't help the OP, but FYI Lark, Sailrite is in Columbia City, Indiana.  While they don't sell sailboats themselves, they certainly sell just about everything you'd need to repair rigging and sails on one! :)

Don't think they get many in-person customer visits, but I've been to both their old and new warehouses, and the new one is definitely one of the nicest, most well-organized warehouses I've ever been inside.

Cool.   I wish I'd known they existed when I was in the area.  

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12 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

The gently swaying mast head light is also more visible against the shore lights when another boat comes in to anchor.

Forgot to ask you if you renamed her or not.

 

I learned today that Gillette shave gel [for sensitive skin] works better than my orange hand cleaner on polyester resin, when you run out of acetone. It even cleans epoxy goo, but not near as good, it is missing an ingredient. Seriously!:D

 

Dear Lord please don't use acetone or any solvent to clean your skin!

Save your liver for drinking!

Vinegar cleans up epoxy quite nicely but be careful to not contaminate your mix with it... break up the curing, will leave you epoxy work truly fucked. But your hands will smell like a delicious salad.

FB- Doug

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12 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Do you have to shave your hands often? How did you discover this?

Haha, shave my knuckles? The epoxy and acetone takes care of those hairs...

it was staring me in the face on the laundry room sink mirror-shelf at 930 at night . Deviant behavior took control. The "Cambodian Tire" gloves I foolishly bought broke like a cheap condom...:wacko:

32 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Dear Lord please don't use acetone or any solvent to clean your skin!

Save your liver for drinking!

Vinegar cleans up epoxy quite nicely but be careful to not contaminate your mix with it... break up the curing, will leave you epoxy work truly fucked. But your hands will smell like a delicious salad.

I thought I have made all the epoxy fuckups one can make, until you told me this one to try now...:D

Thanks 12 and Lark for the tip on vinegar.

Another thing I learned, don't mix pear dish soap and water for wet sanding, almost made me gag...

 

Tempest must have lakefront property by now...https://www.instagram.com/p/BUxhaY5AYWT/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelowna-takes-stock-of-water-levels-after-thunderstorm-hits-1.4141217

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51 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Dear Lord please don't use acetone or any solvent to clean your skin!

Save your liver for drinking!

Vinegar cleans up epoxy quite nicely but be careful to not contaminate your mix with it... break up the curing, will leave you epoxy work truly fucked. But your hands will smell like a delicious salad.

FB- Doug

As you point out, the main difference between white vinegar and acetone is that vinegar breaks down epoxy while acetone just thins it.  In fact small amounts of acetone are sometimes used to help in wetting out the glass - although lacquer thinner does the job much better with less loss in strength and no discolouration.  

Another difference is cost - you can get a gallon of white vinegar for well under $5

The toxicity of acetone is minimal at most - unless one chooses to drink or inhale it in large quantities:  https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/acetone.html .  Nevertheless, I would still prefer not to get it on bare skin.

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

...   ....

The toxicity of acetone is minimal at most - unless one chooses to drink or inhale it in large quantities:  https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/acetone.html .  Nevertheless, I would still prefer not to get it on bare skin.

Yea, but you notice that they don't say that it's good for you. Only that they have not been able to prove how bad it might be for you (via skin absorbtion). It's been in common use for a long time and people have been dying of various internal cancers etc etc a lot longer. The question is, do you want to be part of the experiement?

;)

FB- Doug

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38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yea, but you notice that they don't say that it's good for you. Only that they have not been able to prove how bad it might be for you (via skin absorbtion). It's been in common use for a long time and people have been dying of various internal cancers etc etc a lot longer. The question is, do you want to be part of the experiement?

;)

FB- Doug

 

Agree for the most part - I guess what I was getting at was that people shouldn't freak out that they're going to die just because they got some acetone on them.  I prefer, or rather take steps to avoid contact with it these days, although in the past I've used it to clean my hands.  However, I was not what you'd call a heavy user.  Now I seldom touch the stuff unless on the rare occasion I'm using polyester resin.  With epoxy, I use vinegar exclusively - although mainly because it just plain works better.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yea, but you notice that they don't say that it's good for you. Only that they have not been able to prove how bad it might be for you (via skin absorbtion). It's been in common use for a long time and people have been dying of various internal cancers etc etc a lot longer. The question is, do you want to be part of the experiement?

;)

FB- Doug

Your body actually creates small amounts of acetone.

Just because it's volatile doesn't automatically make it toxic

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13 hours ago, 12 metre said:

 

Agree for the most part - I guess what I was getting at was that people shouldn't freak out that they're going to die just because they got some acetone on them.  I prefer, or rather take steps to avoid contact with it these days, although in the past I've used it to clean my hands.  However, I was not what you'd call a heavy user.  Now I seldom touch the stuff unless on the rare occasion I'm using polyester resin.  With epoxy, I use vinegar exclusively - although mainly because it just plain works better.

Agree 100%

For a short while, when I was first doing a lot of mechanical work, I used brake cleaner on my hands. Perhaps I've over reacted, but for a quie a hile now I've been a major pussy when it comes to potentially harmful chemicals.

 

12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Your body actually creates small amounts of acetone.

Just because it's volatile doesn't automatically make it toxic

Sure. Doesn't make it good for you eaither. Poison Ivy is 100% natural. Your body creates small amounts of hydrochloric acid too.

Would you want it if it was in a Jello-shot? If no, then I don't want it on my skin either (disclaimer- this rule does not apply to sunscreen).

:)

FB- Doug

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On 5/31/2017 at 5:29 PM, CruiserJim said:

Light at top of mast to satisfy the law, cheap solar powered garden lights fore and aft to cast light on the deck and topsides.  

This is what I shall do.

On 5/31/2017 at 8:37 PM, Crash said:

So just to talk some numbers here...rule of thumb as a RIO in F-14 Tomcats was 1 degree of look angle equals 1000 ft of altitude at 10 miles.  So at 1 mile, 1 degree of lookup is 100 ft.  At half a mile 1 degree of lookup is 50 feet.  An Ericson 23's masthead is about 30 feet off the water.  So at 1/4 mile, its only 1 degree up from the horizontal.  At an 1/8 of a mile its 2 degrees up.  At a 1/16th of a mile its 4 degrees up.  1/16 of a nautical mile is 900 feet.  I think your masthead light will be seen by any boater who is sober and competent.  You can help not sober and incompetent, no matter what you do....short of shining a high powered spot light directly into their eyes!  

Monocular vision is about 30 degrees in all directions (so 30 degrees up) and peripheral vision is about 60 degrees up.  So a masthead light, or a light at eye level are equally "seeable" by a human...

Yes, if you get close enough...the masthead light will drop out of "view"....but that range is around 113 ft for monocular vison, and 50 feet for peripheral vison...for an Ericson 23.... 

That's a good reality check and I think a masthead light with a little bit of "mood lighting" around the cockpit will ward off any dummies and compliment my social life ;)  Just need to figure out how to get the boat to list on command so I can tell the girls they have to come and sit on the same side as me to "level her off" :P

On 5/31/2017 at 10:06 PM, Norse Horse said:

The gently swaying mast head light is also more visible against the shore lights when another boat comes in to anchor.

Forgot to ask you if you renamed her or not.

 

I learned today that Gillette shave gel [for sensitive skin] works better than my orange hand cleaner on polyester resin, when you run out of acetone. It even cleans epoxy goo, but not near as good, it is missing an ingredient. Seriously!:D

 

Ha!  I am going to rename her.  You're going to have to wait for the pictures of the new decals :D

On 6/1/2017 at 0:48 AM, 12 metre said:

For epoxy goo, simple white vinegar beats acetone - hands down.  Seriously!

That is an awesome tip and I will be using it.  I always wondered how to get that shmoo off your skin.

On 6/1/2017 at 11:04 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Dear Lord please don't use acetone or any solvent to clean your skin!

Save your liver for drinking!

Vinegar cleans up epoxy quite nicely but be careful to not contaminate your mix with it... break up the curing, will leave you epoxy work truly fucked. But your hands will smell like a delicious salad.

FB- Doug

I fucking hate getting that stuff on my skin.  It's hard finding gloves that will keep it out too!  Vinyl gloves melt and I was told you need latex.  I bought some latex gloves and was a little irritated when, after wiping down the glass, I found little puddles of acetone in the fingertips of the gloves.  *GET IT OFF, GET IT OFF!!!*

On 6/1/2017 at 11:45 AM, Norse Horse said:

Haha, shave my knuckles? The epoxy and acetone takes care of those hairs...

it was staring me in the face on the laundry room sink mirror-shelf at 930 at night . Deviant behavior took control. The "Cambodian Tire" gloves I foolishly bought broke like a cheap condom...:wacko:

I thought I have made all the epoxy fuckups one can make, until you told me this one to try now...:D

Thanks 12 and Lark for the tip on vinegar.

Another thing I learned, don't mix pear dish soap and water for wet sanding, almost made me gag...

 

Tempest must have lakefront property by now...https://www.instagram.com/p/BUxhaY5AYWT/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelowna-takes-stock-of-water-levels-after-thunderstorm-hits-1.4141217

You?  Deviant behaviour?  We're going to have to do some drinking next time I'm in Squampton :D

Yeah!  Things are going nuts here.  I took some photos for you guys yesterday of the staging area and boat launch at the Kelowna Yacht Club.  May not mean much to you if you've never seen the lake level here in the summer time so I'll have to follow up with some photos in the summer.  Lake is probably up a solid 6 feet.  Funny, the people living around the lake are losing their shit but you'd think they woulda learnt their lesson back in 1948.... we haven't even broken the record yet.  Maybe don't build shit on a flood plain...

On 6/1/2017 at 3:23 PM, SloopJonB said:

Your body actually creates small amounts of acetone.

Just because it's volatile doesn't automatically make it toxic

Like Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison.... but I still hate getting chemicals on my skin.

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So I talked to a guy at Garhauer and he said the block systems rated for SWL of 1000lbs should be fine for my boat as a main sheet system.  Thinking a 4:1 should be fine.  Any opinions?  Thinking I'll order this guy:

https://www.garhauerstore.com/mast-boom/rope-boom-vangs/4-to-1-rope-vangs-25-us-4-1.html

For en extra $25 I could move up to one that looks like the only difference is 2000lbs SWL, bigger sheves and the possibility of 1/2" max line instead of 3/8" max line.  No idea if I need that or not but for $25 I don't mind buying it if it'll be better.

https://www.garhauerstore.com/mast-boom/rope-boom-vangs/4-to-1-rope-vangs-30-us-4-1.html

I'm also open to different systems from other manufacturers...... what do ya figure?

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Can't imagine you'd need 1/2 inch line...but no one's mainsheet blocks ever blew up unexpectedly because they 2x as strong as needed!  Only issue I see with the Garhauers as pictured is that the cam cleat coming off the fiddle block isn't adjustable.  You really want to be able to adjust the angle so that you can get easy clean mainsheet releases when wanted/needed, while still have it easy to cleat  the main after sheeting in.  As every boats angles and helming positions differ, being able to adjust the angle of the cam cleat can make a big difference....

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No way you need a system with a 1/2" mainsheet, the smaller one should be fine.  You may need more than 30' of line depending on how far back the sheet mounts to the boom.  At 4:1 that's about 7' extended by the time you wrap around the sheaves and leave something for a stopper knot.  Might not get the boom all the way out.   Also, since I'm spending your money, I sure liked the Harken system on my S-20, the angle of the cam cleat bracket was adjustable.  Not a big deal, and the fixed angle on the Garhauer is probably fine.  Just thought I'd mention it. 

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

This is what I shall do.

That's a good reality check and I think a masthead light with a little bit of "mood lighting" around the cockpit will ward off any dummies and compliment my social life ;)  Just need to figure out how to get the boat to list on command so I can tell the girls they have to come and sit on the same side as me to "level her off" :P

Ha!  I am going to rename her.  You're going to have to wait for the pictures of the new decals :D

That is an awesome tip and I will be using it.  I always wondered how to get that shmoo off your skin.

I fucking hate getting that stuff on my skin.  It's hard finding gloves that will keep it out too!  Vinyl gloves melt and I was told you need latex.  I bought some latex gloves and was a little irritated when, after wiping down the glass, I found little puddles of acetone in the fingertips of the gloves.  *GET IT OFF, GET IT OFF!!!*

You?  Deviant behaviour?  We're going to have to do some drinking next time I'm in Squampton :D

Yeah!  Things are going nuts here.  I took some photos for you guys yesterday of the staging area and boat launch at the Kelowna Yacht Club.  May not mean much to you if you've never seen the lake level here in the summer time so I'll have to follow up with some photos in the summer.  Lake is probably up a solid 6 feet.  Funny, the people living around the lake are losing their shit but you'd think they woulda learnt their lesson back in 1948.... we haven't even broken the record yet.  Maybe don't build shit on a flood plain...

Like Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison.... but I still hate getting chemicals on my skin.

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P_20170601_164956.jpg

Nitrile gloves are the ones you want.  You can get nitrile exam gloves at most pharmacies a box of 100 should be about $10 or less.  These ones are on the thin side and tend to tear easily.  Home Depot has some decent looking nitrile gloves for $15/100 https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.100ct-disp-nitrile.1000710491.html

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1/2" running rigging on a 23' would be ridiculously oversized. Even ordinary 3/8" Dacron double braid is way stronger than needed but is about as small as you want to go for "hand".

Most blocks will handle 3 sizes of line so when I'm choosing them I try to get them sized so the line size I'm using falls in the middle of their range.

There's an old sailors curse - "Large lines and small blocks to you" - self explanatory and a situation to be avoided.

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51 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

1/2" running rigging on a 23' would be ridiculously oversized. Even ordinary 3/8" Dacron double braid is way stronger than needed but is about as small as you want to go for "hand".

Most blocks will handle 3 sizes of line so when I'm choosing them I try to get them sized so the line size I'm using falls in the middle of their range.

There's an old sailors curse - "Large lines and small blocks to you" - self explanatory and a situation to be avoided.

I have found some stupidly large lines on boats. A friend with a 35 inherited 1" dock lines. Our 29 came with 5/8" jib sheets, they barely ran through the blocks.

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Do yourself a major favor and buy a box of nitrile gloves for use when working with epoxy.

Try really hard to avoid acetone on your skin OR ON YOUR GLOVES. If you get acetone on your gloves time for a new pair. 

A box or two of nitrile gloves could save you from needing a liver transplant.

Also avoid dry sanding cured epoxy. without really good protection. Head to toe suits and a positive airflow mask is not overkill. There are a lot of people who have become sensitized to epoxy and now have to steer well clear of the stuff. I know as I am one. 

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On 6/2/2017 at 3:40 PM, Tempest said:

So I talked to a guy at Garhauer and he said the block systems rated for SWL of 1000lbs should be fine for my boat as a main sheet system.  Thinking a 4:1 should be fine.  Any opinions?  Thinking I'll order this guy:

https://www.garhauerstore.com/mast-boom/rope-boom-vangs/4-to-1-rope-vangs-25-us-4-1.html

For en extra $25 I could move up to one that looks like the only difference is 2000lbs SWL, bigger sheves and the possibility of 1/2" max line instead of 3/8" max line.  No idea if I need that or not but for $25 I don't mind buying it if it'll be better.

Bigger blocks weight more, take more space and hurt more when they hit your head.  IMHO, even the smaller setup is overkill but Garhauer doesn't make anything smaller.  I use Harken blocks with a SWL of 800 lbs and my main is twice the size.

I'd be a bit worried about the lack of adjustability of the cam cleat side and angle.  To bad you don't have some old blocks to sail the boat with first to get an idea of what works.  Garhauer also makes blocks with snap shackles, since you have to remove the mainsheet to rig and unrig that might be a nice feature.

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On 6/2/2017 at 4:58 PM, Crash said:

Can't imagine you'd need 1/2 inch line...but no one's mainsheet blocks ever blew up unexpectedly because they 2x as strong as needed!  Only issue I see with the Garhauers as pictured is that the cam cleat coming off the fiddle block isn't adjustable.  You really want to be able to adjust the angle so that you can get easy clean mainsheet releases when wanted/needed, while still have it easy to cleat  the main after sheeting in.  As every boats angles and helming positions differ, being able to adjust the angle of the cam cleat can make a big difference....

 

On 6/2/2017 at 5:00 PM, CruiserJim said:

No way you need a system with a 1/2" mainsheet, the smaller one should be fine.  You may need more than 30' of line depending on how far back the sheet mounts to the boom.  At 4:1 that's about 7' extended by the time you wrap around the sheaves and leave something for a stopper knot.  Might not get the boom all the way out.   Also, since I'm spending your money, I sure liked the Harken system on my S-20, the angle of the cam cleat bracket was adjustable.  Not a big deal, and the fixed angle on the Garhauer is probably fine.  Just thought I'd mention it. 

No, I don't need 1/2" line.  When it came to sheet size I was more so thinking about what would be comfortable to have in my hands more than anything else as I know the line will be stronger than the blocks... but I also want blocks that aren't going to break.

Adjustable cleats is a magnificent point but it's looking like a feature I'd have to pay double for.  I'm thinking I'll just go with the Garhauer system for now and if it doesn't work, I can transplant that system up to replace my boom vang and get another fiddle for the main sheet.

On 6/2/2017 at 5:35 PM, 12 metre said:

Nitrile gloves are the ones you want.  You can get nitrile exam gloves at most pharmacies a box of 100 should be about $10 or less.  These ones are on the thin side and tend to tear easily.  Home Depot has some decent looking nitrile gloves for $15/100 https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.100ct-disp-nitrile.1000710491.html

Yeah, I think the ones I have are nitrile but they are thin.  They sell the black Gorilla nitrile mechanics gloves at the local gettin' spot and they are thicker than the ones I have so maybe I'll go snag a box.

On 6/2/2017 at 8:17 PM, SloopJonB said:

1/2" running rigging on a 23' would be ridiculously oversized. Even ordinary 3/8" Dacron double braid is way stronger than needed but is about as small as you want to go for "hand".

Most blocks will handle 3 sizes of line so when I'm choosing them I try to get them sized so the line size I'm using falls in the middle of their range.

There's an old sailors curse - "Large lines and small blocks to you" - self explanatory and a situation to be avoided.

Ha, yeah, that sounds like a nightmare.  I'm thinking 3/8" will probably be fine for hand feel but I don't want anything smaller.

 

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On 6/3/2017 at 2:46 PM, TQA said:

Do yourself a major favor and buy a box of nitrile gloves for use when working with epoxy.

Try really hard to avoid acetone on your skin OR ON YOUR GLOVES. If you get acetone on your gloves time for a new pair. 

A box or two of nitrile gloves could save you from needing a liver transplant.

Also avoid dry sanding cured epoxy. without really good protection. Head to toe suits and a positive airflow mask is not overkill. There are a lot of people who have become sensitized to epoxy and now have to steer well clear of the stuff. I know as I am one. 

Well I'm going to need a liver transplant at some point for sure but I'm going to try to stretch it out at least until pig liver transplants are safe and effective.  They are starting to 3D print organs so maybe I'll be OK!  What an exciting time to be alive.

Ok, so how in the world do you keep acetone off your gloves?  I usually dump it on a rag and wipe down my work but that stuff soaks through to the other side almost immediately.

Did not know about dry sanding epoxy!  Did a shit tonne of that last summer but I was pretty religious about using a face filter cartridge mask.  I will try to increase my precautionary measures this summer.  PPE fucking sucks to wear but is underrated in terms of stretching out your time on the blue marble.

10 hours ago, xyzzy said:

Bigger blocks weight more, take more space and hurt more when they hit your head.  IMHO, even the smaller setup is overkill but Garhauer doesn't make anything smaller.  I use Harken blocks with a SWL of 800 lbs and my main is twice the size.

I'd be a bit worried about the lack of adjustability of the cam cleat side and angle.  To bad you don't have some old blocks to sail the boat with first to get an idea of what works.  Garhauer also makes blocks with snap shackles, since you have to remove the mainsheet to rig and unrig that might be a nice feature.

How big is your boat?  You mean your main sail area is twice the size?

I hadn't notices the snap shackles but yes, that will make life easier.  See my reply above but I think I'm going to get the Garhauer stuff on order today so I can get this beast in the water ASAP.

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42 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Well I'm going to need a liver transplant at some point for sure but I'm going to try to stretch it out at least until pig liver transplants are safe and effective.  They are starting to 3D print organs so maybe I'll be OK!  What an exciting time to be alive.

Ok, so how in the world do you keep acetone off your gloves?  I usually dump it on a rag and wipe down my work but that stuff soaks through to the other side almost immediately.

Did not know about dry sanding epoxy!  Did a shit tonne of that last summer but I was pretty religious about using a face filter cartridge mask.  I will try to increase my precautionary measures this summer.  PPE fucking sucks to wear but is underrated in terms of stretching out your time on the blue marble.

How big is your boat?  You mean your main sail area is twice the size?

I hadn't notices the snap shackles but yes, that will make life easier.  See my reply above but I think I'm going to get the Garhauer stuff on order today so I can get this beast in the water ASAP.

Some WEST System literature on epoxy health issues: http://www.westsystem.com/safety/health-effects-from-overexposure-to-epoxy/  You can judge for yourself - main issues seem to  be dermatitis (about 10% of users experience this) and sensitization (2%).  Once cured, epoxy is inert, so sanding epoxy is no different than anything else - wear a dust mask, just as you would for sanding wood.

When working with epoxy, I never use acetone - white vinegar only.  So any possible issues of acetone on bare skin are not a concern for me.  At least when I'm working with epoxy.

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Just stumbled across this thread.  My first boat was a Catalina 22.  It was in somewhat better condition but the foredeck had delamination/wet core issue and the prior owner repaired the swing keel.  It was a great starter boat but I'd get a Capri 22 or something similar if I were in the market for a smaller boat again.  

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Listen boys!  Boat work has been getting done!  sorry I haven't posted in a while but I've been busy.  As promised, here are photos of the shine girl.  She needs a bit of a shave but she looks good in yoga pants :P  Boat is starting to look like a hundred dollars!

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The booty gods are appeased for now.  When is your first splash date?   

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3 hours ago, Lark said:

The booty gods are appeased for now.  When is your first splash date?   

Some time between the 26th and 29th.  I want her rockin' and rollin' for the long weekend.  I've got some machining to do today on the mast step and then hopefully I'll get the mast up.  I'd like to get the rigger in this week.

3 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Booty is good.

What, no gif?:D

You are a bad, bad man :P

2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

DUDE !!!

Boat and girl look excellent. Better than excellent, even.

Quit piddling around take them both sailing!

FB- Doug

I'm on it, sir!

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UPDATE

  • Ordered a Tohatsu Sailpro 6hp motor today.  $1852.20 Kanadian Pesos
  • Epoxy and 3M deck sealant are enroute
  • I've received my goosneck slide from Rig-Rite (and I got fucked hard on shipping.... what a shock.  Hope I never have to order from them again)
  • Mainsheet tackle is on the way from Garhauer Marine
  • The jackasses at Dwyer are fucking useless and they haven't even scheduled a production date for the spreader bases that I ordered 3 weeks ago.  I've already CAD'd up replacements and they are being fabricated right now.  After some testing I'll publish the CAD models and drawings online because fuck Dwyer.
  • I've started pulling the shit wiring out of the boat and I'll replace it with some skookum wiring.  Still need to test the nav lights and see what needs fixing
  • Stays/Shrouds are going to the rigger on Wednesday for replacement
  • Polishing is about 40% done.  Need to give the shine girl a bottle of Jamison's to keep her working
  • Pulled the vinyl cubby liners out so I need to find some replacement material for a reasonable price
  • I've scrubbed the V-birth and it looks good but I still have to do the rest of the interior.
  • I straightened the rudder gudgeon and I'm just waiting on epoxy so I can repair the transom and reinstall it
  • Motor mount came off for boat polishing so I'm going to make a backing plate out of 5/8" marine ply for more support
  • sanded down the hatch boards and hit them with some spar varnish so they look less shitty now.  In fact, they actually look kinda trendy
  • The mast pivot looks like swiss cheese because some armchair machinist fucked up twice trying to install the mast step... they only fucked up slightly less on the second shot so I've had to fix it.  Call me anal but I like it when things are straight (I'm sure there's a gay joke in there somewhere).  There were ears on the mast step once upon a time for a sheave that the centreboard line runs on.  Now there's a hillbilly sheave on the inside of the mast that doesn't look like it'll do fuck all.  Think I'm going to install a block on the inside of the compression post, drill a hole in it and then put a cleat on the outside.  I think the PITA of running the CB from inside the boat is less than the PITA of dealing with a line running up through the mast..... but I'm open to opinions....  I started machining the ear stubs thinking that I might replace them via JB weld but now I think I'm going to omit that whole shit system.

Think that's about it for now.  Next big thing on the chopping block is getting the boat off the trailer, checking for leaks and fixing the trailer bunks.  The fun never ends!!!

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Sounds like Rectal-Dental surgery for the centreboard control in the mast.

You could run the line for the internal block back to the cockpit along the ceiling and thru the bulkhead or companionway for singlehanding.

 

I've never seen a cabin mount winch shimmed to that angle before.

You can make your winch self tailing by adding this to it. They work fine on my 20 footer. Best protected with winch covers. http://www.force4.co.uk/barton-winchers-m.html#.WUkwI8aQzIU

I have one of these, leaded line holds it down. Must keep Shine Girl happy on the boat.  http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=waterline-design-companionway-screen-mosquito-net&path=-1|6880|2290149|2290154&id=2503930

Cheers

rectal-speculum-sims-01-25-040.jpg

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Yeah, I was thinking about that.  Just didn't want extra things messing up the inside of my cabin and I definitely don't want to be putting extra holes in the bulkhead.  I'm thinking I'm not going to have to touch it very often... put it down when the boat goes in the water... lift it up when I'm done sailing.  I bet it could be lifted every time I'm running but for the hassle, why bother?

It's kind of a weird setup.  I have 3 winches though so I think that's just for the halyards.  I've never seen those self tailing rings before.  They look cool, might have to give em a try.

Ha, skeeters just aren't a problem here!  I've spent many an evening on the lake and I've never had to deal with them.  Good to know that product is out there though if needed.

 

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Those winchers ain't cheap but they do work - sorta. They don't like the sun so get some winch covers or the OK sun will kill them.

If you want an all male crew, just put one of those speculums aboard - any women will run, trust me. :D

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22 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Those winchers ain't cheap but they do work - sorta. They don't like the sun so get some winch covers or the OK sun will kill them.

If you want an all male crew, just put one of those speculums aboard - any women will run, trust me. :D

lol I don't know how you know that and I'm not sure if I want to know but yeah, there won't be any speculums on board.

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4 hours ago, Tempest said:

lol I don't know how you know that and I'm not sure if I want to know but yeah, there won't be any speculums on board.

It's all fun until someone loses an eye.

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Got all of the holes machined into the mast step and drilled the mast today so my mast step is complete.  Going to raise the stick tomorrow, check all the stays and then they are going to the rigger tomorrow night.  Should have brand new stuff back by next week.

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lol You guys totally lost interest after the purchase of the boat.  Anyway, here's an update.

I got her launched for the long weekend.  It was a hard push but we had her in the water by 12:30am Friday morning.  She started taking on water very slowly so I'm glad I got the wiring done and the bilge pump working.  Also, in larger waves, a lot of water gets forced up through the CB cable trunk so I need to find a solution to that problem.

I cleaned the whole fresh water system out and replaced the hoses and fittings.  I cleaned the tank out with Simple Green, which worked well but was a mistake.  I'm still running water through the tank trying to get rid of the chemical taste that was burned into the tank :/  So for the record, don't use simple green to clean out your water systems.

The CB is an issue that I couldn't really see when I bought the boat.  It's split open and swollen so it doesn't like to retract.  That will be a repair project for the winter.  I'll probably model a new one in CAD, CNC mill the foam to shape and glass up a new CB with the old steel/lead core.

Bunks have been replaced and I have new carpet to go on them.  That trailer is bent and crooked and need serious work but that will be a project for the spring (It's the primary reason why I won't be bringing it down to race with you, Norse Horse :/ ).  I was very pleased to see that as soon as I replaced the bunks that dent disappeared!!!  Think it was just there because the centre support bunk was rotten to the point of no longer supporting the boat.

The polish girl helped me polish up the top sides and she's looking a lot better!  :D

The sails are garbage :(  It's sailing well enough for now and I am happy but they are ratty, dirty and blown out.  I might buy next ones for next summer just to make me feel good on the inside :D

I built a new motor mount out of marine ply to support the transom.  For some reason the transom isn't flush on the inside so it warped when I bolted the wood in, which was irritating but I'm going to ignore it for now.  The new motor is a joy though :)

I built new mast supports for the front of the pulpit and the rudder gudgeons.  The roller needs to be moved to the rear because the manual is totally wrong.... you can't raise the mast from the front, you can only raise it from the rear so I will need a gin pole setup at somepoint.  Ugh, it never ends.

I ended up taking the die grinder to the old spreader bases and made them work for the long weekend so the old spreaders are back on for now.  I emailed Dwyer to cancel my order and it turns out they had already mailed my spreaders so they didn't charge me and the spreaders turned up after the long weekend.  I still had to pay for the new brackets I had built here in town so I don't feel bad and they did apologize.  They kinda screwed me on my plans and caused me a headache but they did make good on it.

Anyway, there's probably more but I'll save it for another day.  I'm sure you guys just want to see the pretty pictures anyway :P

Thank you all so much for all the help and guidance you've given me over the last few months!!  I appreciate it so much and you've helped a noob get a little deeper into this sickness!

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22 minutes ago, Tempest said:

lol You guys totally lost interest after the purchase of the boat.  Anyway, here's an update....... ....    ...    ...    ...    ...

Thank you all so much for all the help and guidance you've given me over the last few months!!  I appreciate it so much and you've helped a noob get a little deeper into this sickness!

 

 

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I didn't lose interest! These are the pics I've been waiting to see!

The centerboard sounds like a fucking mess. Did anyone warn you about this as a possibility? Sorry, that's bad on us. Anyway, by the time you get to it, you'll probably have figured out a good solution. And don't overlook good 2nd-hand sails.

Glad to see you are out sailing this beauty... old sails etc etc, she is still a classic beauty! Congrats on getting over all the hurdles so far!

FB- Doug

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27 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I didn't lose interest! These are the pics I've been waiting to see!

The centerboard sounds like a fucking mess. Did anyone warn you about this as a possibility? Sorry, that's bad on us. Anyway, by the time you get to it, you'll probably have figured out a good solution. And don't overlook good 2nd-hand sails.

Glad to see you are out sailing this beauty... old sails etc etc, she is still a classic beauty! Congrats on getting over all the hurdles so far!

FB- Doug

:D I just noticed the posts falling off and someone else had mentioned the act of boat hunting getting SA all riled up haha.

Yeah, it feels like it's been a long road but she floats!  I'm putting it back in the water this weekend.  Spent $433 on new trailer tires today... faahhhk.  Next things one the list are reworking some of the running rigging.  Going to get a couple more clutches or cam cleats for the halyards and run them both to the winch and I'm going to get some blocks for the cunningham so I can run that back to the winch as well (need the winch because the gooseneck doesn't slide very easily when there's tension on it).

Oh, forgot to post the expense sheet!  There are some other hundreds that have been spent here and there but, overall, not too bad!

exp.jpg

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On 4/26/2017 at 0:02 PM, Lark said:

 

 

I agree the Craigslist "Missing a few ropes" syndrome is to be avoided. A complete boat that has been sailing would be much better, the 'old man's boat' I described a few posts up.

19-22 foot sail ready with a bunk, solid deck chain plates and mast step, simple rig, reliable centerboard (not rusted in position) and good sails seem to be the keys. The more tunable the rig is the more things he has to install every time he launches, which is every time he sails. Row away factor and available without multiple road trips looking at junk are always considerations. I get the feeling the daysailors with a bunk speak to Tempest more then the microcruisers.

We did try to warn the guy.  :D

Glad you had a good weekend.   And jealous.   Beware.   This temporary boat is getting the favorite toy treatment.   You risk ending up like the rest of us.      There is a salvage outfit I found online by Green Bay, so surely there are others if the boat budget becomes burdensome. 

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Good to see some pics was wondering if you got out sailing. The boat looks great. Sad to read about your cb problem. Hope it lasts the season. Nice sunset.

The race invite is still open if you want to come outon mine on Jul 29 weekend  for SOAR. 

Cheers from at anchor in Johnstone strait

 

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

We did try to warn the guy.  :D

Glad you had a good weekend.   And jealous.   Beware.   This temporary boat is getting the favorite toy treatment.   You risk ending up like the rest of us.      There is a salvage outfit I found online by Green Bay, so surely there are others if the boat budget becomes burdensome. 

I REGRET NOTHING!  :D  You guys did a great job of preparing me and, so far, I'm within budget.  As long as the CB holds for the season it'll make for a good project this winter and, since I already have a gallon of epoxy and a bunch of cloth, it shouldn't cost me anything other than time ;)  New sails are a want and not a need.... I have 6 shitty sails to work with for the time being lol.  She's sailing and floating now, boys.  From here on out any money I spend I do so knowing that it's unnecessary.

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2 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Good to see some pics was wondering if you got out sailing. The boat looks great. Sad to read about your cb problem. Hope it lasts the season. Nice sunset.

The race invite is still open if you want to come outon mine on Jul 29 weekend  for SOAR. 

Cheers from at anchor in Johnstone strait

I've been telling the boys I'm going to make a pilgrimage to the coast and my grandfather's birthday is on the 27th so don't be surprised if I show up with a case of beer and a smile :D

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9 hours ago, Tempest said:

:D I just noticed the posts falling off and someone else had mentioned the act of boat hunting getting SA all riled up haha.

Yeah, it feels like it's been a long road but she floats!  I'm putting it back in the water this weekend.  Spent $433 on new trailer tires today... faahhhk.  Next things one the list are reworking some of the running rigging.  Going to get a couple more clutches or cam cleats for the halyards and run them both to the winch and I'm going to get some blocks for the cunningham so I can run that back to the winch as well (need the winch because the gooseneck doesn't slide very easily when there's tension on it).

Oh, forgot to post the expense sheet!  There are some other hundreds that have been spent here and there but, overall, not too bad!

exp.jpg

Looks to me like you're not doing badly at all. I had more than twice that sunk into a Santana 23, including some trailer work... btw you need the good tires and they don't come cheap... but I think you've done a better job of pushing material costs down and bought the boat much cheaper in the first place. Somewhat different priorities, I was racing the boat (always a good excuse).

FB- Doug

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Looking good.

Wow is the lake ever high - I lived there for 20 years and I've never seen it anywhere near that. They'll have to put marker buoys on the seawall soon.

Are there any beaches right now or are they all under water?

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On 7/14/2017 at 6:57 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Looks to me like you're not doing badly at all. I had more than twice that sunk into a Santana 23, including some trailer work... btw you need the good tires and they don't come cheap... but I think you've done a better job of pushing material costs down and bought the boat much cheaper in the first place. Somewhat different priorities, I was racing the boat (always a good excuse).

FB- Doug

I'm trying to be economical.  Bottom paint and sand paper will probably be another $500 but I can probably get the CB and glass work done for that too.  Next will be sails.... and, as mentioned, I'll probably try to find so good used ones, if there is such a thing.

Yep, brand new tires on the trailer.  They were $433 installed but I have nice, new rubber now which is one less thing to worry about.

On 7/14/2017 at 7:46 AM, mcsailor0303 said:

Nice work man!  Glad you got her out!  

What the hell is "Kold"?

Thanks :D

Ugh, it's a beer, I believe.  Someone must have been sponsored or a PO bought sails from someone who was sponsored.

On 7/14/2017 at 8:55 AM, SloopJonB said:

Looking good.

Wow is the lake ever high - I lived there for 20 years and I've never seen it anywhere near that. They'll have to put marker buoys on the seawall soon.

Are there any beaches right now or are they all under water?

Yep, super high.  July 1st (Kanada Day weekend)  had pretty high water lines.  It has been falling very steadily since then.  It's almost back to full pool now.

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Hey Tempest ,Shit show said he might go sailing with you on sunday and i'll be in kelowna sunday and need to kill off a morning so I'm interested in joining you but just for the morning like real early until noon, i'll explain the reason why if i see you!!

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