Tempest

Went to look at a Catalina 22....

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sometimes the wind picks up while one is already out sailing

FB- Doug

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:48 PM, Tempest said:

on the list for this year is:

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It's a big list... we'll see how she goes.

 

Be sure to add to the list... "go to the 2018 Ericson rendezvous, Genoa Bay, July..."

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

True enough but then it's a trailerable boat innit?

Aside from that, the question is "how big a bite to takeout maintain for single reef" and the answer is "it depends." Temp doesn't have a lot of experience yet so he's trying to capitalize on ours...... warm fuzzy feeling, thanks...... and you want to tell him what the weather will be like whenever he's sailing. Good to know.

My preference is to be slightly over powered than either hella over powered or underpowered; especially when trying to maneuver against chop or some other tough condition. It's also really important to practice taking in a reef. IMHO 25% is too much -but- that's largely taste / preference. My last keelboat had a 12% single reef and that was great in the context of having a good blade jib and not wanting the penalty of a 2nd reef.

FB- Doug

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On 4/1/2018 at 6:12 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I think the reef points look good if you want a deep 1 reef. I like a shallow reef myself because that gives you good control when you would otherwise be overpowered. This philosophy works best with either a deep 2nd reef or never sailing in over 30~ 35-ish (or maybe a storm stay sail for your boat)

Reef points do indeed hurt performance which why so many 1-design boats don't have them (no matter how much they need one)

FB- Doug

I do have a blade in the inventory but I think it has a rip in it.  I'm going to have to take it in to get repaired this spring.

On 4/1/2018 at 6:14 AM, Steam Flyer said:

PS I agree 100% w  choice of sails

And with feeling like a lazy old man.

 

Who feels like a lazy old man?  haha

On 4/1/2018 at 12:15 PM, SloopJonB said:

Who's going to sail an Ericson 23 in 35 knots on a lake?

Even if sailing on the Salish Sea anyone would run for cover before that on a boat that size.

Yeah, I'm on Okanagan lake at the moment.  35knts has and does come out of nowhere and there's very little shelter on that lake.

On 4/1/2018 at 3:57 PM, SloopJonB said:

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

Things get pretty sketchy pretty fast round these parts.

On 4/1/2018 at 7:09 PM, sledracr said:

Be sure to add to the list... "go to the 2018 Ericson rendezvous, Genoa Bay, July..."

Ha! Cool.  Where's that?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

On 4/1/2018 at 9:23 PM, Steam Flyer said:

True enough but then it's a trailerable boat innit?

Aside from that, the question is "how big a bite to takeout maintain for single reef" and the answer is "it depends." Temp doesn't have a lot of experience yet so he's trying to capitalize on ours...... warm fuzzy feeling, thanks...... and you want to tell him what the weather will be like whenever he's sailing. Good to know.

My preference is to be slightly over powered than either hella over powered or underpowered; especially when trying to maneuver against chop or some other tough condition. It's also really important to practice taking in a reef. IMHO 25% is too much -but- that's largely taste / preference. My last keelboat had a 12% single reef and that was great in the context of having a good blade jib and not wanting the penalty of a 2nd reef.

FB- Doug

Hunh, interesting.  I was actually thinking 25% wasn't enough for my boat based on sail area.  My buddy was over on the weekend and he summed it up pretty well by asking me when, if ever, I've sailed with a reefed main and the answer was very infrequently.  Furthermore, my main is pretty small when compared to the jib and, being that it's a new sail, I'll probably be able to flatten it out.  I know what you mean though.  I tried sailing on my main alone last summer in probably 20-25knts and I couldn't point worth a damn and was just going back and forth across the lake not making any headway.  I might be better of without a reef so long as I can depower the sail and maintain point.

I told the guys at precision to just put the reef in wherever their software calculates as the best spot which I'm guessing is right around 25%.  Like I said, it may not get much use anyway.

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Genoa Bay is just across from Cowichan Bay, so yes close to Duncan. Nice restaurant last time we were there, and good anchorage. No mooring field, so Slug won`t be there. 

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The reef looks about right to my eye. If you need to further reduce sail on a 23' boat you just drop one of them entirely.  Not the most efficient way to to sail but at that point you're just looking to get home in one piece. 

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13 hours ago, Tempest said:

Ha! Cool.  Where's (Genoa Bay)?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

Yeah, near Duncan, across from Cowichan Bay

Had about 25 Ericsons at the 2017 rendezvous in Langley (it alternates between US and Canada).  Should have about the same number this year.

There are a couple of threads on the Ericson forums if interested.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?4-Ericsons-Northwest-amp-British-Columbia

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On 4/3/2018 at 12:30 AM, Tempest said:

I do have a blade in the inventory but I think it has a rip in it.  I'm going to have to take it in to get repaired this spring.

Who feels like a lazy old man?  haha

Yeah, I'm on Okanagan lake at the moment.  35knts has and does come out of nowhere and there's very little shelter on that lake.

Things get pretty sketchy pretty fast round these parts.

Ha! Cool.  Where's that?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

Hunh, interesting.  I was actually thinking 25% wasn't enough for my boat based on sail area.  My buddy was over on the weekend and he summed it up pretty well by asking me when, if ever, I've sailed with a reefed main and the answer was very infrequently.  Furthermore, my main is pretty small when compared to the jib and, being that it's a new sail, I'll probably be able to flatten it out.  I know what you mean though.  I tried sailing on my main alone last summer in probably 20-25knts and I couldn't point worth a damn and was just going back and forth across the lake not making any headway.  I might be better of without a reef so long as I can depower the sail and maintain point.

I told the guys at precision to just put the reef in wherever their software calculates as the best spot which I'm guessing is right around 25%.  Like I said, it may not get much use anyway.

I managed to work off a little of the lazy old man feeling this afternoon, compounding and waxing our camper van. Getting the bugs off the grill was a job to call the Army. Anyway........

It's true the boat will handle very differently, and probably not point as well upwind (several reasons) under main alone or under reefed main. When reefed down, the center of area of the mainsail moves forward, so it may be better balanced than under full main alone. But the windage will increase exponentially with stronger winds, while the drive from the main will remain the same (limited by righting moment). Choppy waters will make it difficult to keep the boat on an efficient close-hauled course pointing high, and reduce the effectiveness of the underwater foils. So, pointing lower... even to a close reach instead of truly close-hauled.... will work well to get the boat upwind.

Sailmakers are generally pretty smart.

FB- Doug

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On 4/2/2018 at 9:59 PM, Ishmael said:

Genoa Bay is just across from Cowichan Bay, so yes close to Duncan. Nice restaurant last time we were there, and good anchorage. No mooring field, so Slug won`t be there. 

I think this is gonna be doable!

On 4/3/2018 at 6:59 AM, CruiserJim said:

The reef looks about right to my eye. If you need to further reduce sail on a 23' boat you just drop one of them entirely.  Not the most efficient way to to sail but at that point you're just looking to get home in one piece. 

Yeah, that sounds about right.

On 4/3/2018 at 10:52 AM, sledracr said:

Yeah, near Duncan, across from Cowichan Bay

Had about 25 Ericsons at the 2017 rendezvous in Langley (it alternates between US and Canada).  Should have about the same number this year.

There are a couple of threads on the Ericson forums if interested.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?4-Ericsons-Northwest-amp-British-Columbia

Awesome.  Thanks for the link.  It if happens July 6-8 I think I'll be able to make it.  No plans for that weekend yet.

1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I managed to work off a little of the lazy old man feeling this afternoon, compounding and waxing our camper van. Getting the bugs off the grill was a job to call the Army. Anyway........

It's true the boat will handle very differently, and probably not point as well upwind (several reasons) under main alone or under reefed main. When reefed down, the center of area of the mainsail moves forward, so it may be better balanced than under full main alone. But the windage will increase exponentially with stronger winds, while the drive from the main will remain the same (limited by righting moment). Choppy waters will make it difficult to keep the boat on an efficient close-hauled course pointing high, and reduce the effectiveness of the underwater foils. So, pointing lower... even to a close reach instead of truly close-hauled.... will work well to get the boat upwind.

Sailmakers are generally pretty smart.

FB- Doug

That kinda explains the experience I had last summer.  The fact that my centreboard is swelled and split probably doesn't help.  I'm really hoping I am able to build a new one this summer.

Yeah, the sail maker from Precision called me the other day.  Super nice guy.  Answered all of my questions and seemed like he knew what he was doing.

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14 hours ago, Tempest said:

Awesome.  Thanks for the link. 

Anytime! 

And feel free to join the forums, if you want.  It's all-Ericsons, all the time, and a remarkably helpful community.  A number of other E23 owners there.

 

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11 hours ago, sledracr said:

Anytime! 

And feel free to join the forums, if you want.  It's all-Ericsons, all the time, and a remarkably helpful community.  A number of other E23 owners there.

 

Yeah, I'm already a member but I never post in there because no one ever replies to my posts.  I've asked questions and just get crickets.

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