Tempest

Went to look at a Catalina 22....

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sometimes the wind picks up while one is already out sailing

FB- Doug

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:48 PM, Tempest said:

on the list for this year is:

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It's a big list... we'll see how she goes.

 

Be sure to add to the list... "go to the 2018 Ericson rendezvous, Genoa Bay, July..."

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

True enough but then it's a trailerable boat innit?

Aside from that, the question is "how big a bite to takeout maintain for single reef" and the answer is "it depends." Temp doesn't have a lot of experience yet so he's trying to capitalize on ours...... warm fuzzy feeling, thanks...... and you want to tell him what the weather will be like whenever he's sailing. Good to know.

My preference is to be slightly over powered than either hella over powered or underpowered; especially when trying to maneuver against chop or some other tough condition. It's also really important to practice taking in a reef. IMHO 25% is too much -but- that's largely taste / preference. My last keelboat had a 12% single reef and that was great in the context of having a good blade jib and not wanting the penalty of a 2nd reef.

FB- Doug

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On 4/1/2018 at 6:12 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I think the reef points look good if you want a deep 1 reef. I like a shallow reef myself because that gives you good control when you would otherwise be overpowered. This philosophy works best with either a deep 2nd reef or never sailing in over 30~ 35-ish (or maybe a storm stay sail for your boat)

Reef points do indeed hurt performance which why so many 1-design boats don't have them (no matter how much they need one)

FB- Doug

I do have a blade in the inventory but I think it has a rip in it.  I'm going to have to take it in to get repaired this spring.

On 4/1/2018 at 6:14 AM, Steam Flyer said:

PS I agree 100% w  choice of sails

And with feeling like a lazy old man.

 

Who feels like a lazy old man?  haha

On 4/1/2018 at 12:15 PM, SloopJonB said:

Who's going to sail an Ericson 23 in 35 knots on a lake?

Even if sailing on the Salish Sea anyone would run for cover before that on a boat that size.

Yeah, I'm on Okanagan lake at the moment.  35knts has and does come out of nowhere and there's very little shelter on that lake.

On 4/1/2018 at 3:57 PM, SloopJonB said:

That's my point - shelter is always close at hand here. Pretty hard to get more than a few miles from shelter anywhere around here.

And the seas never get more than a few feet high.

Things get pretty sketchy pretty fast round these parts.

On 4/1/2018 at 7:09 PM, sledracr said:

Be sure to add to the list... "go to the 2018 Ericson rendezvous, Genoa Bay, July..."

Ha! Cool.  Where's that?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

On 4/1/2018 at 9:23 PM, Steam Flyer said:

True enough but then it's a trailerable boat innit?

Aside from that, the question is "how big a bite to takeout maintain for single reef" and the answer is "it depends." Temp doesn't have a lot of experience yet so he's trying to capitalize on ours...... warm fuzzy feeling, thanks...... and you want to tell him what the weather will be like whenever he's sailing. Good to know.

My preference is to be slightly over powered than either hella over powered or underpowered; especially when trying to maneuver against chop or some other tough condition. It's also really important to practice taking in a reef. IMHO 25% is too much -but- that's largely taste / preference. My last keelboat had a 12% single reef and that was great in the context of having a good blade jib and not wanting the penalty of a 2nd reef.

FB- Doug

Hunh, interesting.  I was actually thinking 25% wasn't enough for my boat based on sail area.  My buddy was over on the weekend and he summed it up pretty well by asking me when, if ever, I've sailed with a reefed main and the answer was very infrequently.  Furthermore, my main is pretty small when compared to the jib and, being that it's a new sail, I'll probably be able to flatten it out.  I know what you mean though.  I tried sailing on my main alone last summer in probably 20-25knts and I couldn't point worth a damn and was just going back and forth across the lake not making any headway.  I might be better of without a reef so long as I can depower the sail and maintain point.

I told the guys at precision to just put the reef in wherever their software calculates as the best spot which I'm guessing is right around 25%.  Like I said, it may not get much use anyway.

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Genoa Bay is just across from Cowichan Bay, so yes close to Duncan. Nice restaurant last time we were there, and good anchorage. No mooring field, so Slug won`t be there. 

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The reef looks about right to my eye. If you need to further reduce sail on a 23' boat you just drop one of them entirely.  Not the most efficient way to to sail but at that point you're just looking to get home in one piece. 

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13 hours ago, Tempest said:

Ha! Cool.  Where's (Genoa Bay)?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

Yeah, near Duncan, across from Cowichan Bay

Had about 25 Ericsons at the 2017 rendezvous in Langley (it alternates between US and Canada).  Should have about the same number this year.

There are a couple of threads on the Ericson forums if interested.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?4-Ericsons-Northwest-amp-British-Columbia

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On 4/3/2018 at 12:30 AM, Tempest said:

I do have a blade in the inventory but I think it has a rip in it.  I'm going to have to take it in to get repaired this spring.

Who feels like a lazy old man?  haha

Yeah, I'm on Okanagan lake at the moment.  35knts has and does come out of nowhere and there's very little shelter on that lake.

Things get pretty sketchy pretty fast round these parts.

Ha! Cool.  Where's that?  If it's somewhere around Vancouver I could probably make it work.
*eta* if it's by Duncan I'm betting I can make it over for that :D

Hunh, interesting.  I was actually thinking 25% wasn't enough for my boat based on sail area.  My buddy was over on the weekend and he summed it up pretty well by asking me when, if ever, I've sailed with a reefed main and the answer was very infrequently.  Furthermore, my main is pretty small when compared to the jib and, being that it's a new sail, I'll probably be able to flatten it out.  I know what you mean though.  I tried sailing on my main alone last summer in probably 20-25knts and I couldn't point worth a damn and was just going back and forth across the lake not making any headway.  I might be better of without a reef so long as I can depower the sail and maintain point.

I told the guys at precision to just put the reef in wherever their software calculates as the best spot which I'm guessing is right around 25%.  Like I said, it may not get much use anyway.

I managed to work off a little of the lazy old man feeling this afternoon, compounding and waxing our camper van. Getting the bugs off the grill was a job to call the Army. Anyway........

It's true the boat will handle very differently, and probably not point as well upwind (several reasons) under main alone or under reefed main. When reefed down, the center of area of the mainsail moves forward, so it may be better balanced than under full main alone. But the windage will increase exponentially with stronger winds, while the drive from the main will remain the same (limited by righting moment). Choppy waters will make it difficult to keep the boat on an efficient close-hauled course pointing high, and reduce the effectiveness of the underwater foils. So, pointing lower... even to a close reach instead of truly close-hauled.... will work well to get the boat upwind.

Sailmakers are generally pretty smart.

FB- Doug

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On 4/2/2018 at 9:59 PM, Ishmael said:

Genoa Bay is just across from Cowichan Bay, so yes close to Duncan. Nice restaurant last time we were there, and good anchorage. No mooring field, so Slug won`t be there. 

I think this is gonna be doable!

On 4/3/2018 at 6:59 AM, CruiserJim said:

The reef looks about right to my eye. If you need to further reduce sail on a 23' boat you just drop one of them entirely.  Not the most efficient way to to sail but at that point you're just looking to get home in one piece. 

Yeah, that sounds about right.

On 4/3/2018 at 10:52 AM, sledracr said:

Yeah, near Duncan, across from Cowichan Bay

Had about 25 Ericsons at the 2017 rendezvous in Langley (it alternates between US and Canada).  Should have about the same number this year.

There are a couple of threads on the Ericson forums if interested.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?4-Ericsons-Northwest-amp-British-Columbia

Awesome.  Thanks for the link.  It if happens July 6-8 I think I'll be able to make it.  No plans for that weekend yet.

1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I managed to work off a little of the lazy old man feeling this afternoon, compounding and waxing our camper van. Getting the bugs off the grill was a job to call the Army. Anyway........

It's true the boat will handle very differently, and probably not point as well upwind (several reasons) under main alone or under reefed main. When reefed down, the center of area of the mainsail moves forward, so it may be better balanced than under full main alone. But the windage will increase exponentially with stronger winds, while the drive from the main will remain the same (limited by righting moment). Choppy waters will make it difficult to keep the boat on an efficient close-hauled course pointing high, and reduce the effectiveness of the underwater foils. So, pointing lower... even to a close reach instead of truly close-hauled.... will work well to get the boat upwind.

Sailmakers are generally pretty smart.

FB- Doug

That kinda explains the experience I had last summer.  The fact that my centreboard is swelled and split probably doesn't help.  I'm really hoping I am able to build a new one this summer.

Yeah, the sail maker from Precision called me the other day.  Super nice guy.  Answered all of my questions and seemed like he knew what he was doing.

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14 hours ago, Tempest said:

Awesome.  Thanks for the link. 

Anytime! 

And feel free to join the forums, if you want.  It's all-Ericsons, all the time, and a remarkably helpful community.  A number of other E23 owners there.

 

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11 hours ago, sledracr said:

Anytime! 

And feel free to join the forums, if you want.  It's all-Ericsons, all the time, and a remarkably helpful community.  A number of other E23 owners there.

 

Yeah, I'm already a member but I never post in there because no one ever replies to my posts.  I've asked questions and just get crickets.

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Got the new sails!  They look awesome.  Kinda wish I had paid a little extra and got a window in the Genoa though but it's not the end of the world.  Got her in the salt and raced around Paisley island with the Sunshine Coast Yacht Club on Sunday.  We got spun around by some crazy wind behind Ragged Island which cost us some time.  Ended up dropping from 4th to 5th place by 11 seconds.  Not bad for a first race with a boat that isn't even remotely setup for racing.  It's so awesome to be able to actually flatten the sails out and point!  It was worth the $2000 just to not look like a piece of shit with a beer logo on the sails.

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And of course I fucked up and bent my toggles while stepping the mast.  That was a serious facepalm moment.  Not even remotely excited about how much those are going to cost to replace :angry: At least I didn't bend the turnbuckle bodies or I would have been really choked.  I'm going to try to straighten them as they aren't that bad.  If it goes poorly I'll have to shell out $70.

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Good looking sail.

Buy new toggles - those are seriously fucked up. You don't want your rig to fall and take out that beautiful new sail.

"For want of a nail........"

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13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Good looking sail.

Buy new toggles - those are seriously fucked up. You don't want your rig to fall and take out that beautiful new sail.

"For want of a nail........"

what he said, not the place to save the price of a dinner out. 

 

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Tape those toggles so they stand up before stepping the mast.

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

And of course I fucked up and bent my toggles while stepping the mast.  That was a serious facepalm moment.  Not even remotely excited about how much those are going to cost to replace :angry: At least I didn't bend the turnbuckle bodies or I would have been really choked.  I'm going to try to straighten them as they aren't that bad.  If it goes poorly I'll have to shell out $70.

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"Ronstan" is Australian for "broken".

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Sails are beautiful, congrats.

You can always get a window added to the genny.

Definitely replace the toggles.  We used a short loop if line tied thru the barrels of the upper and lower shroud on our Santana 20, kept the toggles on the top of the chainplate when stepping the mast.   We just left the loops more or less permanently rigged, didn't get all yucky like tape.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Good looking sail.

Buy new toggles - those are seriously fucked up. You don't want your rig to fall and take out that beautiful new sail.

"For want of a nail........"

Very nice looking sail. Those were made by Precision?

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5 hours ago, Tempest said:

Got the new sails!  They look awesome.  Kinda wish I had paid a little extra and got a window in the Genoa though but it's not the end of the world.  Got her in the salt and raced around Paisley island with the Sunshine Coast Yacht Club on Sunday.  We got spun around by some crazy wind behind Ragged Island which cost us some time.  Ended up dropping from 4th to 5th place by 11 seconds.  Not bad for a first race with a boat that isn't even remotely setup for racing.  It's so awesome to be able to actually flatten the sails out and point!  It was worth the $2000 just to not look like a piece of shit with a beer logo on the sails.

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Beauty! Those sails look good, you did all right this time!

Advice: practice reefing when it's calm.

More advice- replace those toggles, don't try to straighten 'em. What he said

And summer is just beginning, GO SAIL !!!!

FB- Doug

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Sails look great Tempest.

Tugs and log booms would def be a course hazard in Collingwood Channel...

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Good looking sail.

Buy new toggles - those are seriously fucked up. You don't want your rig to fall and take out that beautiful new sail.

"For want of a nail........"

Fffaaaaaahhhk, why do you guys always have to be the voice of reason?  I wanted to hear "Straighten em out, they'll be fine!"

9 hours ago, Blitz said:

Tape those toggles so they stand up before stepping the mast.

Don't know that I want to tape them but I need some sort of solution.  I was thinking maybe stainless springs.

8 hours ago, CruiserJim said:

Sails are beautiful, congrats.

You can always get a window added to the genny. 

Definitely replace the toggles.  We used a short loop if line tied thru the barrels of the upper and lower shroud on our Santana 20, kept the toggles on the top of the chainplate when stepping the mast.   We just left the loops more or less permanently rigged, didn't get all yucky like tape.

Not sure that I know what you mean.  As in you just tied the inner shroud barrel to the outer shroud barrel?  That might actually work but they will probably still flop over.  I'll give it a try with the new toggles. 

6 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Very nice looking sail. Those were made by Precision?

Yup.

3 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Sails look great Tempest.

Tugs and log booms would def be a course hazard in Collingwood Channel...

Thanks man!  Hopefully I'll see you on the water this summer.  Gonna have to sail up to your neck of the woods.

Ha, I had no idea that was called Collingwood Channel.  Led me to something interesting that I also didn't know about....
http://www4.rncan.gc.ca/search-place-names/unique/JATHD

Didn't see any logs or tugs on Sunday.

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I really want an autopilot so I can single hand this summer but the reviews on the Raymarine and Simrad units are dismal at best.  In fact, it sounds like they are complete pieces of shit with horrendous customer support.  It got me thinking that it might not be too hard to build one.  I was actually going to build the actuator but it would probably be a lot easier to buy one of these:

https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/product/HD12B017-0300CNO1EES

And wire it up with an arduino.  There are lots of guys on the internet doing cool shit that looks WAY better than the garbage from Raymarine and Simrad.

 

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6 hours ago, Tempest said:

Not sure that I know what you mean.  As in you just tied the inner shroud barrel to the outer shroud barrel?  That might actually work but they will probably still flop over.  I'll give it a try with the new toggles. 

Yes, exactly.  Worked great on the S-20.  The chainstays were aligned athwartships so if they tried to flop over they were pivoting from different points which caused the barrels to move lengthwise relative to each other. Before they got to the flop over point the loop of line would draw tight and stop the motion. Easy enough to experiment with when the rig is down to see if it will work for you. Tape works too, just looks like shit after a bit and leaves residue.  

Of course I learned this the hard way, after bending a toggle just like you did.  

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6 hours ago, Tempest said:

There are lots of guys on the internet doing cool shit that looks WAY better than the garbage from Raymarine and Simrad.

Pretty hard to beat a tiller pilot for simplicity and cost if all you want it to do is hold a compass course with relatively flat water... 

You can design/build/debug a more complex system, and integrate sensors but other than for fun, your return on the time for a one off will be negative unless your an exceptionally gifted designer, fabricator and test engineer with free materials and fully depreciated tools...  

https://pelagicautopilot.com/collections/all  might be an alternative for a simple system 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Pretty hard to beat a tiller pilot for simplicity and cost if all you want it to do is hold a compass course with relatively flat water... 

You can design/build/debug a more complex system, and integrate sensors but other than for fun, your return on the time for a one off will be negative unless your an exceptionally gifted designer, fabricator and test engineer with free materials and fully depreciated tools...   

https://pelagicautopilot.com/collections/all  might be an alternative for a simple system 

 

 

 

True, although designing, developing and manufacturing commercial and consumer products is what I do for a living so I might be able to pull it off ;)

That Pelagic system would be expensive by the time it landed at my door (considering the state of the Kanadian Kopek) but it might be worth it.  Wondering how corrosion resistant their actuator is.

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The only complains I've heard about Tillerpilots are from people using them offshore - Webb Chiles comes immediately to mind. I think he ended up buying them by the case.

Sailing around here they seem to do O/K. People using the small one on a marginal basis can be a problem - a 6000 Lb design displacement boat using the small one when fully loaded for cruising and that sort of thing.

Taking them home when not in use seems to help as well.

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The electronics in the ST1000/2000 are ancient by modern standards.   With what we have today with RPi, smartphone magnetometers, bluetooth, one could make something vastly superior for a device that sells for $500+.  Use a smartphone as a remote instead of a $400 single purpose device from Raymarine.

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43 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The only complains I've heard about Tillerpilots are from people using them offshore - Webb Chiles comes immediately to mind. I think he ended up buying them by the case.

Sailing around here they seem to do O/K. People using the small one on a marginal basis can be a problem - a 6000 Lb design displacement boat using the small one when fully loaded for cruising and that sort of thing.

Taking them home when not in use seems to help as well.

Well for $6-700, landed at my door, I demand something better than "OK".  There should be at least a basic level of electronic robustness and water resistance.  Not only that but they've been making these things for YEARS.  It's not like they're not aware of the problems with them as the internet tells me they have received BOAT LOADS of feedback.

The displacement on my boat is only 3200lbs (maybe 4000lbs with water food and a couple of bodies) so I'd be well within the specs of the 1000/10.  I just want something that will point the boat while I raise/lower sails and/or go below for a drink or a BM.  That convenience is worth $600 to me.... but not if it only lasts 2 years... and if out of those 2 years I'm without the unit for 6 months while they fix/replace it.  I guess if it shits the bed I'd at least have the guts to play with.  <_<

33 minutes ago, xyzzy said:

The electronics in the ST1000/2000 are ancient by modern standards.   With what we have today with RPi, smartphone magnetometers, bluetooth, one could make something vastly superior for a device that sells for $500+.  Use a smartphone as a remote instead of a $400 single purpose device from Raymarine.

I agree.  I think RPi might even be overkill.  This is something that's well within the capability of an arduino.  Check this guys unit out.  Friggen awesome.

Was looking around all night last night to see if I could find and off-the-shelf linear actuator that was weather proof/corrosion resistant to save myself the hassle of building one.  So far I haven't found much for reasonable prices.

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resealing through hulls, fixing toilet and resealing chainplates has turned into replacing the port side bulkhead ffuuucccckk my life! :angry: So much for sailing this weekend.

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3 hours ago, Tempest said:

resealing through hulls, fixing toilet and resealing chainplates has turned into replacing the port side bulkhead ffuuucccckk my life! :angry: So much for sailing this weekend.

I suggested keeping the old boat as a spare. :)   Maybe it will be windless up there so you won’t miss much,    

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Alright, Gents, I finally got all of the work done.  Slept on the boat in Gibsons last night.  Trying to sail across to Genoa Bay for the Ericson meetup but I've been getting fucked by the weather.  There have been strong wind warnings in effect for yesterday and today.  Looks like it's supposed to be 5-15 variable all day tomorrow so I think that's my weather window.

I pulled my head out because some idiot used non-stainless screws to hold it in and the back corner was broken.  They also had it plumbed incorrectly so the anti-siphun valve was in the intake hose and not the output (to the bowl) hose.  I epoxied the thing back together and added FG cloth on the inside and outside.  That aughta hold it.

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One of my port windows was leaking along with my chain plates so I wanted to get them sealed up.  When I went to remove the port chain plate I realized that I needed to remove the bulkhead because some genius though it would be a good idea to have one of the bolt heads behind some protruding fiberglass :angry:.  The bulkhead was rotten and needed to be replaced anyway but it wasn't a job I had planned on doing this past weekend so that was a bit of an irritation.  On the up side, everything is super solid now and nothing was creaking or cracking on the boat last night!  Everything sounded super solid.  No idea why the starboard chainplate is bolted to a thick hunk of wood that's glassed directly into the hull and then the port chain plate is bolted to a flimsy, 1/2" sheet of plywood that is fastened to the cabin liner in the worst way imaginable.  Friggen idiots.

I ground down the nut on the top of the port chain plate, cut the bolt and flipped the whole thing around so that it can be removed the next time the chain plates need servicing.  It's too bad the wood doesn't match but finding pre-finished birch ply saved me a bunch of time.  Unfortunately I wasn't able to save the capping/trim.  Some dummy did a home repair and used the wrong glue to reattach a delaminated section so it came apart in one section as I was trying to remove it.

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Made up some 1/16" stainless plates to replace the overlapping washers on the 1/2" fasteners.  Why they thought 1/2" fasteners were necessary is beyond me.  The plates allow me to crank everything down without deforming the wood.  Before the plates the washers were crushing the wood and the spring lock washers weren't even compressing all the way.  Think that's part of the reason everything was creaking and moving around.

The deck was rotten under the starboard chainplate so I had to dig the crap out and fill it with some epoxy putty.  Didn't seem too bad though and hopefully this will keep the water out.  Everything has been resealed with a healthy dose of 3M 4000UV.

Another awesome design feature.... the knuckleheads at Ericson cut the holes too big for the window and then just plastered it with silicone.  No wonder the window was leaking.  I had to make a flange out of aluminum to cover the gaps and then resealed it all with 4000.  Actually turned out OK and I don't think it looks that bad.

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Otherwise, I resealed my though hulls for the head and now my bilge isn't filling up with so much water!  Awesome!  Apparently the through hulls were leaking.

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I ended up buying a Raymarine ST2000+ tiller pilot.  Seems to work OK but it definitely isn't worth $800.  They don't make an extension for it that's longer than 6" so I had a buddy machine up a 9-5/8" extension for it.  They used a custom, 19TPI thread to try to force you to buy their proprietary parts :angry:.  Just in case anyone needs to know.... 0.680" major diameter standard 60° V-threads, 19TPI but most machines won't cut 19TPI so he cut it using a 1.375mm metric thread pitch and it seems to work fine.  Would be nice if it had limit switches as opposed to just binding up at the end of it's travel....

Anyway, aside from waiting for the weather, all is good.  Might sail over to Horseshoe Bay this afternoon just for the helluvit.

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Nice solution for the AP and good to know about the threads. Another option is to go with a riser and mounted the AP to the seat bench. I put one of these on the bottom of my tiller:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|344|2028687|2028719&id=1492738

I'd probably knock that think off the boat the way you have it now. Might want to engineer up a leash for it. 

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Nice work Tempest.

Hope to see some pics from the Ericson meet. I love the lines  and cabin of the 34 and her bigger sisters.

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Nice work.  Glad to hear that you are out sailing now.  Congrats.

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3 hours ago, Tempest said:

 It's too bad the wood doesn't match but finding pre-finished birch ply saved me a bunch of time.

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Don't make that too permanent - birch ply is nice stuff but it just about the least rot-resistant ply you can buy.

Unless you coated it with epoxy extremely thoroughly I'd recommend making a replacement out of better stuff next winter.

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On 3/24/2017 at 7:13 AM, hobot said:

Agreed.

My favourite part of the OP was where he said seeing some bad glass work (or whatever) made him “puke in his mouth.”

How many people do you need to tell you to walk away after puking in your mouth?! :-)

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Tempest, welcome to yachting!

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On 7/5/2018 at 12:37 PM, Slick470 said:

Nice solution for the AP and good to know about the threads. Another option is to go with a riser and mounted the AP to the seat bench. I put one of these on the bottom of my tiller:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|344|2028687|2028719&id=1492738

I'd probably knock that think off the boat the way you have it now. Might want to engineer up a leash for it. 

Thanks.  Ya, hopefully the thread info saves someone else some trouble but I'm guessing it will soon be lost in the bowels of the internet.

I looked at all of the other attachment options and I was trying to avoid filling my cockpit with a bunch of obtrusive crap.  I think this installation was the best way to go.  Technically it already has an electrical leash so I should be fine.  Also, that back end socket has pretty tight tolerances so it actually holds onto the TP pretty well via suction.

On 7/5/2018 at 1:51 PM, Norse Horse said:

Nice work Tempest.

Hope to see some pics from the Ericson meet. I love the lines  and cabin of the 34 and her bigger sisters.

Uhg, ended up bailing on the Ericson meet.  The high wind warnings totally screwed up my plans and there wasn't enough wind to sail over on Friday so I would have just been motoring.  I had a bunch of friends and family on Keats so I just hung out around there.  The sailing on Sunday was awesome though!  Nice, consistent wind from the North West.

The weather is starting to look a lot better and I think I have everything pretty much in ship shape so I'll be planning to head to Squampton for SOAR.  I'll sail to the island at some point but there's no hurry now.

On 7/5/2018 at 2:27 PM, CruiserJim said:

Nice work.  Glad to hear that you are out sailing now.  Congrats.

thanks :)

On 7/5/2018 at 3:14 PM, SloopJonB said:

Don't make that too permanent - birch ply is nice stuff but it just about the least rot-resistant ply you can buy.

Unless you coated it with epoxy extremely thoroughly I'd recommend making a replacement out of better stuff next winter.

Ugh, I knew it was too good to be true.  Should have made a template!  Oh well.  Hopefully rot will be a problem of the past now that I have everything sealed up.  Guess I didn't post a photo before but in the photo with the new bulkhead you can see the rubber boot I made for the CB trunk.  Having that thing on there has eliminated a massive amount of water from gushing up and into the compression post

On 7/6/2018 at 11:12 AM, hobot said:

Tempest, welcome to yachting!

Thanks.

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Here are some photos of my first time single handing with both sails up.  That autopilot is incredible, it totally changes sailing for me.  I was actually giggling to myself while sitting on the head while under way :D  Photos shot in Queen Charlotte Channel heading from Horseshoe Bay out to the Strait of Georgia.  Unfortunately the wind died on me as soon as I hit the strait but I had fun motoring around in the sun.

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Well I finally got the centreboard out of the boat and not a moment too soon.  Looks like she was close to heading down to the locker.  Now I'll reverse engineer it and build a new one out of, most likely, aluminum and HDPE.

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37 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Yikes. That is very close to total failure.

No kidding.  Almost lost my template.

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Holy cow.

Are you going to use lead in your new one? Hope you have some pics of your construction.

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Stick the old one back together and pull a mould off it. Make sure you add some stiffening wood Weigh it!

Make a new one don't forget to add the ballast to bring it up to weight.

Look at the West System site for lots of ' how to' help.

Doing a proper job will mean making your mould in two halves usually done by sawing a complete mould in half.

But quick and dirty would see you just pulling a half mould. Laying up one side adding ballast and pivot tube and foam then sanding the foam to shape before laying up the other side without a mould just lay on the cloth and add resin. Quick and dirty but it would  " GIT ER DONE ".

If going the half mould route look on youtube for peel ply . I would use it on the open side lay up. 

Use polyester resin and not epoxy [  cheaper. ]

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1 hour ago, TQA said:

Stick the old one back together and pull a mould off it. Make sure you add some stiffening wood Weigh it!

Make a new one don't forget to add the ballast to bring it up to weight.

Look at the West System site for lots of ' how to' help.

Doing a proper job will mean making your mould in two halves usually done by sawing a complete mould in half.

But quick and dirty would see you just pulling a half mould. Laying up one side adding ballast and pivot tube and foam then sanding the foam to shape before laying up the other side without a mould just lay on the cloth and add resin. Quick and dirty but it would  " GIT ER DONE ".

If going the half mould route look on youtube for peel ply . I would use it on the open side lay up. 

Use polyester resin and not epoxy [  cheaper. ]

I would think templates and a foam blank would be quicker and cheaper than a full mold.

The only technical advice I have is to figure the center of gravity of the original, as much as practical, before trashing it. And to work at improving the pennant / hoisting gear if possible.

FB- Doug

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call catalina yachts or the 22 association

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Probably won't be much help with the board of an Ericson 23.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Probably won't be much help with the board of an Ericson 23.

Unless the advice you're looking for is to sell it and buy a Catalina 22.

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"call ericson yachts or the ericson 23 class association"

yes i know EY is no longer around and the CA is really just an owners group but the point is to try really hard to find a replacement before trying to rebuild.

it may not be possible but replacing can be lots cheaper, lots faster and lots smarter.

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He is a hands on guy so I think he may surprise you when he posts some pics.

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On 10/31/2018 at 6:12 PM, Norse Horse said:

Holy cow.

Are you going to use lead in your new one? Hope you have some pics of your construction.

Yeah, I'm gonna pull the old one apart, scavenge the plumbum and probably recast it (which will be fun).

11 hours ago, TQA said:

Stick the old one back together and pull a mould off it. Make sure you add some stiffening wood Weigh it!

Make a new one don't forget to add the ballast to bring it up to weight.

Look at the West System site for lots of ' how to' help. 

Doing a proper job will mean making your mould in two halves usually done by sawing a complete mould in half.

But quick and dirty would see you just pulling a half mould. Laying up one side adding ballast and pivot tube and foam then sanding the foam to shape before laying up the other side without a mould just lay on the cloth and add resin. Quick and dirty but it would  " GIT ER DONE ".

If going the half mould route look on youtube for peel ply . I would use it on the open side lay up. 

Use polyester resin and not epoxy [  cheaper. ]

Ha, I'm gonna use technology, baby :D  Gonna CNC mill the whole thing.

10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I would think templates and a foam blank would be quicker and cheaper than a full mold.

The only technical advice I have is to figure the center of gravity of the original, as much as practical, before trashing it. And to work at improving the pennant / hoisting gear if possible. 

FB- Doug

Yeah, that had occurred to me.  I'll level it and weigh it at both ends.  Should give me a reasonably accurate CoG. 

8 hours ago, Parma said:

"call ericson yachts or the ericson 23 class association"

yes i know EY is no longer around and the CA is really just an owners group but the point is to try really hard to find a replacement before trying to rebuild.

it may not be possible but replacing can be lots cheaper, lots faster and lots smarter.

Replacements don't exist.  Apparently there was a guy building them but he was doing a poor job and they were really expensive.  Furthermore, it would cost me a shit ton to have a 90lb, almost 6 foot centreboard shipped to me.  I'll build a nice one for myself and then there may be money to be made on building more for others in the future (probably not, but who knows).  I might just post the plans/models on the web for others free of charge.

8 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

He is a hands on guy so I think he may surprise you when he posts some pics.

Thanks Norse :D  Don't hold yer breath.  Building may not commence until the spring but I'd like to have it ready to go by the time the nice weather shows it's head.

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i have a j24 rudder you can convert to a centreboard. I think it weighs nearly 90 lbs! 

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13 hours ago, monsters inc said:

i have a j24 rudder you can convert to a centreboard. I think it weighs nearly 90 lbs! 

That's only due to that fancy water ballast system you added to it :P

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20 hours ago, monsters inc said:

i have a j24 rudder you can convert to a centreboard. I think it weighs nearly 90 lbs! 

Haha, I appreciate the offer but I'm guessing trying to convert a rudder will be more work than just building a purpose made CB.

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So I got some Dimensions into my CAD program and took some photos to do an overlay.  It looks like stuff isn't lining up because of the image distortion aberration and I overlayed a bunch of photos in photoshop the best I could.  The important thing is that the curvatures line up and the dimensions measure up properly on the floor.  I'll trace the thing on some paper and print out my outline to verify the shape before I go crazy sending stuff out to the CNC shops.

I weighed the bloody thing tonight.  Apparently it weighs 140lbs not 90lbs which explains why it was such a bear to carry up the stairs by myself.  I tried to weigh the ends individually to get a CofG but it limited out my hook scale.  I'll just calculate a rough CofG in CAD when the model is finished.

462089218_CentreboardOverlay.thumb.jpg.2131037e1072cf32345d1036cd661c95.jpg

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Here's a rendering of the stock board.  I'll start working on the new board once I confirm the hoist point position.

1871220288_CentreboardRender.thumb.png.9813d0f8fc57096f35cc57f4a3ca00be.png

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7 hours ago, Tempest said:

So I got some Dimensions into my CAD program and took some photos to do an overlay.  It looks like stuff isn't lining up because of the image distortion aberration and I overlayed a bunch of photos in photoshop the best I could.  The important thing is that the curvatures line up and the dimensions measure up properly on the floor.  I'll trace the thing on some paper and print out my outline to verify the shape before I go crazy sending stuff out to the CNC shops.

I weighed the bloody thing tonight.  Apparently it weighs 140lbs not 90lbs which explains why it was such a bear to carry up the stairs by myself.  I tried to weigh the ends individually to get a CofG but it limited out my hook scale.  I'll just calculate a rough CofG in CAD when the model is finished.

462089218_CentreboardOverlay.thumb.jpg.2131037e1072cf32345d1036cd661c95.jpg

Holy crap, toting 140lbs up the stairs is the kind of thing a farmer would do. The Lightning centerboard weighs 130 lb and I moved that around a few times .... built a jig for putting it in & out, with cutting board slides....... but I never carried it upstairs like a bride.

Definitely get the dimensional relationship of the pivot point and hoisting point as close to perfect as you can, also make sure you allow for the thickness of extra layers of cloth to reinforce those points. I see the overall weight as important, and the CG as important but somewhat less than the dimensions.

And don't be surprised if the overall dimensions don't make sense, or if you discover that it's not symmetrical. It wasn't built by NASA

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:
9 hours ago, Tempest said:

So I got some Dimensions into my CAD program and took some photos to do an overlay.  It looks like stuff isn't lining up because of the image distortion aberration and I overlayed a bunch of photos in photoshop the best I could.  The important thing is that the curvatures line up and the dimensions measure up properly on the floor.  I'll trace the thing on some paper and print out my outline to verify the shape before I go crazy sending stuff out to the CNC shops.

I weighed the bloody thing tonight.  Apparently it weighs 140lbs not 90lbs which explains why it was such a bear to carry up the stairs by myself.  I tried to weigh the ends individually to get a CofG but it limited out my hook scale.  I'll just calculate a rough CofG in CAD when the model is finished.

462089218_CentreboardOverlay.thumb.jpg.2131037e1072cf32345d1036cd661c95.jpg

Holy crap, toting 140lbs up the stairs is the kind of thing a farmer would do. The Lightning centerboard weighs 130 lb and I moved that around a few times .... built a jig for putting it in & out, with cutting board slides....... but I never carried it upstairs like a bride.

Definitely get the dimensional relationship of the pivot point and hoisting point as close to perfect as you can, also make sure you allow for the thickness of extra layers of cloth to reinforce those points. I see the overall weight as important, and the CG as important but somewhat less than the dimensions.

And don't be surprised if the overall dimensions don't make sense, or if you discover that it's not symmetrical. It wasn't built by NASA

FB- Doug

In addition, you would be wise to make up a cheap frame of softwood or cheap ply to validate critical dimensions and clearances since the original was in such terrible shape.    Something you can install in the well with a pin and swing to make sure you haven't "missed it by this much" and created an interference in the final product.   I'm in the prototyping and testing business.  The adage that "a test is worth a thousand expert opinions" come from harsh experience. 

 

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 8:34 PM, Tempest said:

cost me a shit ton to have a 90lb, almost 6 foot centreboard shipped to me.

 

not really,  it was like  $100 shipping for a 150lb mooring anchor for me  and that was from the NE to the SW..    it just goes by freight truck..

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 I never carried it upstairs like a bride.

How else was he going to get it on the dining table to start working on it?

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Holy crap, toting 140lbs up the stairs is the kind of thing a farmer would do. The Lightning centerboard weighs 130 lb and I moved that around a few times .... built a jig for putting it in & out, with cutting board slides....... but I never carried it upstairs like a bride.

Definitely get the dimensional relationship of the pivot point and hoisting point as close to perfect as you can, also make sure you allow for the thickness of extra layers of cloth to reinforce those points. I see the overall weight as important, and the CG as important but somewhat less than the dimensions.

And don't be surprised if the overall dimensions don't make sense, or if you discover that it's not symmetrical. It wasn't built by NASA

FB- Doug

Yeah, I will.  I'm actually more concerned about the relationship of the pivot pin and the stop notch which will control the angle the board hangs at.  Currently, I don't see any rhyme or reason to the design so I would concur with your assessment that the board wasn't built by NASA.  As for CofG, I might just put a dowel under it and roll it around until it balances half decently.  That'll probably be more than good enough.

lol you guys are still thinking I'm going to build this thing out of fiberglass.  There will be no fiberglass on the new board.  The new board will be fit for installation on the space shuttle.

7 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

In addition, you would be wise to make up a cheap frame of softwood or cheap ply to validate critical dimensions and clearances since the original was in such terrible shape.    Something you can install in the well with a pin and swing to make sure you haven't "missed it by this much" and created an interference in the final product.   I'm in the prototyping and testing business.  The adage that "a test is worth a thousand expert opinions" come from harsh experience.  

 

 

 

I'm also in that business ;)  My last reverse engineering project was designing templates for bulkheads in a Bell 214B helicopter tail boom.  The biggest issue I foresee is the boat being crooked around my sweet CB :D

boom.thumb.jpg.8234a0e28a7f86b810556712fde82ed8.jpg

7 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

not really,  it was like  $100 shipping for a 150lb mooring anchor for me  and that was from the NE to the SW..    it just goes by freight truck..

That's good to know.  Not sure if the same shipping options exist up here in Kanuckistan but I'll look into it next time I have something big and heavy to ship.

6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

How else was he going to get it on the dining table to start working on it?

lol that's not far from the truth.

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