REW

2018 Newport to Bermuda invites multihulls

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Wonder how they came up with an arbitrary (?) 58 foot minimum limit? :wacko:

 

They sure talked up GB but gotta believe this is a trimaran race, given typical conditions, no?

 

Anyway, compared to the 58 foot minimum for multis, I believe its a 27.5 foot minimum for monohulls. Might be interesting to look at the list of monohulls that have competed in recent years...

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The journey of 1,000 (or 635) miles starts with a single step.

 

I wish Clean would focus his anti-blazer angst on the muppets at CYCA who are now the only organizers of any of the "big 600" races to not allow multihulls to enter.

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So get a 29 foot cat, and you've got 58 foot of hull.... your in :);)

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Gee, maybe I can add a 10' bowsprit, even one on each hull.

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My guess is that the 58 foot cutoff is to keep Fujin out.

That way Gunboat and HH can keep selling the idea that you can have incredible speed and palatial interiors on the same boat.

53 footers with pretty comfortable interiors that go the same speed as 66 footers makes that concept seem silly.

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My guess is that the 58 foot cutoff is to keep Fujin out.

That way Gunboat and HH can keep selling the idea that you can have incredible speed and palatial interiors on the same boat.

53 footers with pretty comfortable interiors that go the same speed as 66 footers makes that concept seem silly.

Fujin should mirror the course. Ridiculous rule.

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My guess is that the 58 foot cutoff is to keep Fujin out.

That way Gunboat and HH can keep selling the idea that you can have incredible speed and palatial interiors on the same boat.

53 footers with pretty comfortable interiors that go the same speed as 66 footers makes that concept seem silly.

110% NOT true. The Gunboat 40 (G4), Gunboat 48, Gunboat 55, and Gunboat 57 are all excluded. The RC made a decision and we are stoked to be included in any capacity. This isn't about Gunboat, or Fujin, or the HH55, it's about cats getting to race in the Bermuda Race, which we are very happy about.

 

I reckon Gunboat 5701 would take Fujin in a race, but we won't be able to prove that in the Bermuda Race. Neither boat is included. That's fine. The normalization of multihulls is coming along. Hopefully, people will stop wasting their money on monoslugs soon.

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Leaners ain't going away anytime soon. Just the other day a dingbat whose absolutely ghastly steel hard chined WTF never leaves the seawall... informed me that multihulls don't point, motor all the time, blah blah usual shit. Stupidity is infinite y'know

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I did find the comment in the release a bit curious....the race is close reaching, not offwind. :ph34r:

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I did find the comment in the release a bit curious....the race is close reaching, not offwind. :ph34r:

 

annapolis - bermuda is a better course for offshore multihulls - much reachier

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u mean they don't point

:-)

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u mean they don't point

:-)

 

just that it's not where they really shine

 

the offshore multihulls like GB's typically can sail upwind at around a TWA of ~45 deg +/- a few deg on flat water, but can be 50deg or more on the ocean with waves and breeze.

 

it's also not a particularly comfortable ride if you are really pushing it..., nor is it easy on the boat..

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us7070's comments were so politely understated, I don't think anyone will get it. Please allow me to restate his/her point.

 

Any multi-hull, racing from a beam reach, to hard on the wind, in 18 knots of breeze in the open ocean with a good fetch, will make the crew feel like Spam, in a can, mounted to a paint shaker. That is until the boat breaks or worse. Slowing down helps, but not near enough. If the Atlantic is pacific, everyone will have an excellent Bermuda Race. If not,...

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I have one of these boats and agree with you. We have sailed to Bermuda in cruise mode and all is good. Pick our weather window in the fall go.

 

Slow the boat when it gets bumpy and in general take it easy. What bothers me about racing is the whole point is to push the boat and these things are cruising boats not stripped out racing cats. They are heavy and maybe they can take the pounding but as an owner who sails with an all amateur crew including wife and kids that would not be my idea of fun.

 

 

us7070's comments were so politely understated, I don't think anyone will get it. Please allow me to restate his/her point.

 

Any multi-hull, racing from a beam reach, to hard on the wind, in 18 knots of breeze in the open ocean with a good fetch, will make the crew feel like Spam, in a can, mounted to a paint shaker. That is until the boat breaks or worse. Slowing down helps, but not near enough. If the Atlantic is pacific, everyone will have an excellent Bermuda Race. If not,...

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Well this thread and idea went quietly into the night....

GB Elvis didn't though!

So N2B threw a party and invited multis for the first time ever and only 3 GBs showed up.  Nobody had to pray for anyone, nobody died, Rambler (not a multi duh!?) took line honors but Elvis sailed really well.

Wondering why only GBs given others here like @REWindicated they wanted to come play.  But no HHs.  Heck nobody else showed or was invited...  bummer.

Of some interest is that Merlin has a slight lead at the moment on the other 2 GBs in the race.  Have to admit the old school guy that is me is pulling for ole Merlin... though I refuse to hand in my multihull card.

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

 

Well this thread and idea went quietly into the night....

GB Elvis didn't though!

So N2B threw a party and invited multis for the first time ever and only 3 GBs showed up.  Nobody had to pray for anyone, nobody died, Rambler (not a multi duh!?) took line honors but Elvis sailed really well.

Wondering why only GBs given others here like @REWindicated they wanted to come play.  But no HHs.  Heck nobody else showed or was invited...  bummer.

Of some interest is that Merlin has a slight lead at the moment on the other 2 GBs in the race.  Have to admit the old school guy that is me is pulling for ole Merlin... though I refuse to hand in my multihull card.

The rule written was very.....exclusive to certain mutlies....namely one that is 53 feet long and has a track record of munching GB's..

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6 minutes ago, ASP said:

The rule written was very.....exclusive to certain mutlies....namely one that is 53 feet long and has a track record of munching GB's..

Well to be fair I am guessing the B53 couldn't enter at any length after their little swimming excursion.  Its been quiet on that front so I am not sure that boat is (ever??) coming back. Heard of progress but its been a long while.  Cool boat; hope they make it back.

On the other hand a bunch of the HHs and the various others such as REW w/ Arete do meet the rule I think.  Even some of the other tris but yet nobody came to play.  Bit surprised. 

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46 minutes ago, Wess said:

Well to be fair I am guessing the B53 couldn't enter at any length after their little swimming excursion.  Its been quiet on that front so I am not sure that boat is (ever??) coming back. Heard of progress but its been a long while.  Cool boat; hope they make it back.

On the other hand a bunch of the HHs and the various others such as REW w/ Arete do meet the rule I think.  Even some of the other tris but yet nobody came to play.  Bit surprised. 

Have heard first hand from several of the regular crew that it is coming back. Insurance did them well.

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1 hour ago, ASP said:

The rule written was very.....exclusive to certain mutlies....namely one that is 53 feet long and has a track record of munching GB's..

This point has bothered me for months. The 57' cutoff was most definitely not written with Fujin in mind. Two Chris White Atlantic 57's have flipped. One Gunboat 55 (57') was abandoned. Do the math. Fujin was collateral damage  

 

Elvis, as always, has absolutely crushed and made it look easy. As for Merlin, I say well done. GB60/62s aren't meant to lose to TP52's...let alone 40 year old leaners. 

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1 hour ago, soma said:

This point has bothered me for months. The 57' cutoff was most definitely not written with Fujin in mind. Two Chris White Atlantic 57's have flipped. One Gunboat 55 (57') was abandoned. Do the math. Fujin was collateral damage  

 

Elvis, as always, has absolutely crushed and made it look easy. As for Merlin, I say well done. GB60/62s aren't meant to lose to TP52's...let alone 40 year old leaners. 

Hey don't jinx things, LOL.  Old friend just bought a CW 47 mast foil and Merlin is duking is out w Tribe (is that the original Tribe... or turboed...or?).

I am just surprised there are no tris.  This is their course (more than the cats), no? What up with that?

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How many E. coast 57+' tris are out there? Arete (ORMA60) was entered but no-showed (REW, that was you?). Paradox coulda entered, but didn't. 

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How many E. coast 57+' tris are out there? Arete (ORMA60) was entered but no-showed (REW, that was you?). Paradox coulda entered, but didn't. 

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Well for example there is this legendary tri in the islands that had been for sale forever and is just there length wise or would be with minor extension. Maybe generate some interest. Few others I can think of but not my place. At least some could have killed it but other maybe too old/tired and not. No biggie, just  thought we would see some. At least more than three.

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They invited Millionaires that owned multihulls, and

My 40' trimaran would wax them, but don't have any millions

Oh well, r2ak will have to work instead

 

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Talk is cheap and the Elvis team has been proven to be pretty had to beat.  Not sure what happened to the 2 other GBs.  Quite a few boats I would not expect to beat them over the line did but perhaps the difficult weather and transitions did them in.  Didn't follow closely.  And they are in Bermuda sailing while I am sitting at a desk... Ugh!

Nice to hear the B53 is making progress; great boat.

And great that Fire finally sold; hopefully to a good home.

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Holy sh*t!  See the front page.  If accurate Arete was rejected for the race.

#notcoolCCA

#notcoolGunboat

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Holy sh*t!  See the front page.  If accurate Arete was rejected for the race.

#notcoolCCA

#notcoolGunboat

Ouch! 

I can tell you that while I was still working for Gunboat we were asked to opine on the draft sailing requirements for the race. What I saw seemed excessively conservative and I stayed far away from the debate. My impression was that the motivation was simply concern with running a clean, safe event...not excluding anyone who was a "threat" on the water. I think the Bermuda Race fleet has a litigious mindset and a history of weather events, and no one wanted an "event" in the debut year for multihull participation. 

To be clear, none of the Gunboats met the requirements as built. Several Gunboats decided they didn't want to spend the $$$ to comply. Those that competed spent the money to make the mods to meet the requirements. Personally, I don't know why the Bermuda Race requires more/different safety requirements than the Transpac, C600, RORC trans-Atlantic, or any other ocean race, but the organizers chose to play it safe.

As for the 36-hr delta between Elvis and  the rest, it looked pretty clear that if you didn't get through the ridge the door was closed. Elvis squirted out, the other two got stuck with the rest of the 155-boat pack. 

 

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Long story.  We originally asked for our eligibility to be reviewed in April 2017 so we could plan appropriately for the season well in advance of any rules being published.  Never heard a peep or a response.  We ratcheted up our inquiry in February and specifically questioned the requirement to comply with ISO 12215-7 Scantlings, since the boat was designed and built in 2001/2002 well in advance of the existence of those regs.  Further from the regs themselves:  The bold text is done by me to emphasize key points

 

Scantlings derived from this document are primarily intended to apply to recreational craft including

recreational charter vessels. They are considered to correspond to the minimum strength requirements

of motor and sailing craft which are operated in a safe and responsible manner, having due cognisance of

the prevailing conditions. It primarily applies to boats designed to be available to open public, and used

by non-professional crews, it is not suitable to racing craft that are only performance oriented and

excludes boats designed only for professional racing. However Clause 14 considers the usage of a

multihull as a workboats, with professional crew, provided Annex I of ISO/DIS 12215-5 is complied with.

 

So, pretty clearly the reg doesn’t even apply to Arete’.  They have subjected us to a requirement that itself says it doesn’t apply to us and then rejected us for failing to meet it.  It is also interesting that the boat has been sailed multiple times across the Atlantic and raced hard.  Not only is it in one piece, it has original rudders and is structurally incredibly sound.  It was all a very frustrating process and the lack of communication was pathetic.  When they did communicate it was very terse and lacked any explanation or willingness for dialog.  Very frustrating process.

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One more detail, Arete' does meet the ISO 12217 Stability requirements by huge margins, which was another requirement of the race. 

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18 hours ago, soma said:

To be clear, none of the Gunboats met the requirements as built. Several Gunboats decided they didn't want to spend the $$$ to comply. Those that competed spent the money to make the mods to meet the requirements

what sort of modifications did they have to make?

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18 hours ago, REW said:

So, pretty clearly the reg doesn’t even apply to Arete’.  They have subjected us to a requirement that itself says it doesn’t apply to us and then rejected us for failing to meet it. 

it would be more accurate to say that the ISO standard wasn't intended for boats like yours, rather than that it didn't apply...

i guess the question is: is there a better standard out there for multihulls.., say one intended for racing multuhulls?

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7 hours ago, us7070 said:

what sort of modifications did they have to make?

Different for each Gunboat. On one of the 60's (rather not say which), all we had to do in the end was move the position of our life rafts, and add in a 'fixed, manual bilge pump in each hull'. Sucked to cut an unnecessary hole through the boat, but they wouldn't budge on that one. All the rest of the initial 'deficiencies' were negotiated away after the entire committee came and looked at us and another of the boats for themselves, and heard what we had to say about lifelines, stability, mainsheet access & speed, etc. One of the other issues they wouldn't budge on - arguable rightfully so - was with furling working jibs/solent/trinket sails which were permanently lashed at the head, requiring a man to be sent up the rig to cut the sail down in the event that the furler failed. Many of the GB's and HH's use this setup. I can't say I disagree with that philosophy myself, though it surely was a pain with those with the furling Solents to modify things.

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2 hours ago, LotsO'Knots said:

One of the other issues they wouldn't budge on - arguable rightfully so - was with furling working jibs/solent/trinket sails which were permanently lashed at the head, requiring a man to be sent up the rig to cut the sail down in the event that the furler failed. Many of the GB's and HH's use this setup. I can't say I disagree with that philosophy myself, though it surely was a pain with those with the furling Solents to modify things.

I love how a system like that...used by every RTW solo sailor, is too risky/hard for a fully crewed boat sailing 600 miles. I've personally got 75,000 miles with a lashed headsail and never had a malfunction or need to go aloft. Just another example of the overly cautious attitude. 

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1 hour ago, soma said:

I love how a system like that...used by every RTW solo sailor, is too risky/hard for a fully crewed boat sailing 600 miles. I've personally got 75,000 miles with a lashed headsail and never had a malfunction or need to go aloft. Just another example of the overly cautious attitude. 

1 hour ago, soma said:

 

Exactly,  I've personally got 75,000 miles miles without a life raft or HF  and never had a use for them. Just another example of the overly cautious attitude.  Bwahahahaha

Can,t believe the amount of whining over the entry requirements to join a race . Organise your own  if you don't like it,"Buttercup".

WTF would an organising authority allow an old ORMA 60 to enter. We are talking a vessel type with possibly the most appauling historical  race safety record. 

Boo Hoo ,they made we change the $50  life raft chocks on my multi million dollar catamaran before the would let me enter . Boo Hoo. FFS

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, soma said:

I love how a system like that...used by every RTW solo sailor, is too risky/hard for a fully crewed boat sailing 600 miles. I've personally got 75,000 miles with a lashed headsail and never had a malfunction or need to go aloft. Just another example of the overly cautious attitude. 

Agreed, this whole thing is making them look like cucks. 

 

Not worth getting hung up over a little coastal race, the real offshore races in the US happen on the West Coast....other than the sparsely raced Transat

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On 6/22/2018 at 7:24 PM, soma said:

I love how a system like that...used by every RTW solo sailor, is too risky/hard for a fully crewed boat sailing 600 miles. I've personally got 75,000 miles with a lashed headsail and never had a malfunction or need to go aloft. Just another example of the overly cautious attitude. 

Fair enough!! However.. since there is only one set of rules/regs for this race, and that has to cover corinthian teams as well as pro teams... you could argue that perhaps they are trying to discourage the weekend warrior types from getting into trouble with a system which they may or may not be able to go aloft and fix (as the pro teams would have no problem doing)?

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We never got to this point in the discussion with the ORMA, we were rejected over ISO 12215-7.  However our J2 is lashed and it is on the only permanent headstay which goes to a strop on the mast, J2 is lashed to the swivel.  The strop passes through the swivel.  The other three headsails are on Halyard locks, not a viable option for the J2.  

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3 hours ago, REW said:

We never got to this point in the discussion with the ORMA, we were rejected over ISO 12215-7.  However our J2 is lashed and it is on the only permanent headstay which goes to a strop on the mast, J2 is lashed to the swivel.  The strop passes through the swivel.  The other three headsails are on Halyard locks, not a viable option for the J2.  

Perhaps we will see some changes to the multihull entry requirements for future N2Bs.  Or not. Time will reveal CCA’s intent.

Hey REW - you guys ever give thought to an A2B?

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It’s possible. Boat will be headed South soon for winter racing, hopefully Caribbean 600.

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A2B is a painful race with low entry list. Typically a high pressure system parked over most of the race course, not something I would really suggest.

Whats the deal with the A2N race, multi's allowed in that yet? IMO that would be more fun.

N2B is a very conservative race with 1 death in 51 races, so they will definitely deny entries first and ask questions later. If someone is serious about the 2020 event and needs help getting through the process, please reach out as I have some contacts at CCA that may make this a bit easier.

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