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troll99

build and sail a small scow?

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hi

 

I wonder if anyone has built aus scow moth? Looks interesting!

 

What other alternatives are? My two criteria are decided. It is plywood and scow shape. I'm fairly inexperienced in building and sailing. I hope I will hold on the same dinghy a while.

 

Largs_Moth_Launching.jpg

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It is plywood and scow shape. I'm fairly inexperienced in building and sailing.

Smart guy. Plywood is very easy to work with. Excellent beginners material.

 

DRC

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Moth looks better

Foiling-Scow_low.jpg

This is a modern foam carbon scow with experimental foils. Not yet fast enough but promising. I am on the boat with yellow tramps and we are lapping David on his scow.

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My brother is working on getting a copy of the original plans of the Moth that 505 designer John Westall designed but I don't think was ever built. It looks like a mini 505-ish.

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Moth looks better

 

This is a modern foam carbon scow with experimental foils. Not yet fast enough but promising. I am on the boat with yellow tramps and we are lapping David on his scow.

 

 

 

Isn't the twin centreboard set up illegal?

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Twin centreboard is legal as long as they exit the hull below the static waterline. No one is worried yet, but they will be when the scow guys work out how to use the increased righting moment from using only the leeward foil to get more speed. They are working on it, but in the mean time the development in "normal" narrow moths continues to move speeds upward.

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No one I know of has yet put modern moth foils and rig onto a wide skiff or scow hull. If its built light enough there is no reason it will not work. Scow might lose out when healing to windward for take off but a low windage wide skiff hull should be fine. It would have to have low hull drag only up to about 8kts so planing shapes are not needed. Worth considering.

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It is plywood and scow shape. I'm fairly inexperienced in building and sailing.

Smart guy. Plywood is very easy to work with. Excellent beginners material.

 

DRC

 

 

Thanks, Dave. Your UFO looks good! I have to look at it more for inspiration (rig etc)

 

 

Moth looks better

 

This is a modern foam carbon scow with experimental foils. Not yet fast enough but promising. I am on the boat with yellow tramps and we are lapping David on his scow.

 

 

Cool.. what is his blog if David has one? Or any info about this scow. Looks optimized though!

 

The shape looks nice. GBR4027 below

 

CIMG1850.jpg

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My brother is working on getting a copy of the original plans of the Moth that 505 designer John Westall designed but I don't think was ever built. It looks like a mini 505-ish.

 

lovely..i think I want scow.. but indeed 505 is such a classic!

 

http://earwigoagin.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/505-classic-moth.html

No one I know of has yet put modern moth foils and rig onto a wide skiff or scow hull. If its built light enough there is no reason it will not work. Scow might lose out when healing to windward for take off but a low windage wide skiff hull should be fine. It would have to have low hull drag only up to about 8kts so planing shapes are not needed. Worth considering.

 

something close to Brittish moth?

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What about a wide-bow Fireball?

 

I want something very minimalistic

 

1 person

50kg

10-12ft

plywood

windsurfer sail as temporary solution

short trapeze

 

all this for a low budget build..i have foiling in my mind and id build more iterations of scow. I think its hard avoid Moth class as id keep learn from it.

 

 

 

However, below this looks nice & modern, not the fastest. To be able compete to Mach2 is beyond my budget :D

 

moth.jpg

 

But in this photo, its hard to resist the wooden look.

 

Largs_Moth_Launching.jpg

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The scow moths in photos without wings would be pre 1970. There are several build plans on the Scow Moth Facebook page (link in my earlier post), and there are lots of people on that page who will tell you which design would suit you best. Many are still sailing and often use modern moth rigs which are easy to find cheap if deemed a bit off foiling pace. Too full for foiling is more ideal for scow pace.

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Have you had a look at the South African Dabchick? It is a 3.6m scow with a flat deck, you could put hiking racks on it and a bigger rig and it would be seriously quick.

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Hey Phil,

 

Do you have more info about the foam carbon experimental foiled scow?

 

by accident, I found it. That's the one. Jim French's.

https://www.facebook.com/jfyachts/?ref=page_internal

 

 

Have you had a look at the South African Dabchick? It is a 3.6m scow with a flat deck, you could put hiking racks on it and a bigger rig and it would be seriously quick.

 

I'm considering it seriously. Perhaps a Moth class boat is a bit too much at the moment.

 

Build something small at first. I admire the works of that designer. Sonnet, Tempo..

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The scow moths in photos without wings would be pre 1970. There are several build plans on the Scow Moth Facebook page (link in my earlier post), and there are lots of people on that page who will tell you which design would suit you best. Many are still sailing and often use modern moth rigs which are easy to find cheap if deemed a bit off foiling pace. Too full for foiling is more ideal for scow pace.

 

good idea. I realise it might make my budget blow soon ;)

 

Once I done some research, I come back. Hard to find latest designs as it seems they sell the complete boats instead of plans?? Jim French boat looks nice.

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have you otherwise looked at the International canoe?

 

20110726_TW_IC_Worlds_2344.jpg

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For your first ever build I would keep it simple. You could add the wings later maybe? Either way, building your own boat is a special experience. You only need some basic carpentry skills and a willingness to learn how to use epoxy resin etc. Ply 'stitch n glue' methods vary but will result in a good build if you get the basics right.

 

Plenty of hints and tips on YouTube I would have thought.

 

My first build was a Kit, a 'Mirror' dinghy. I wont ever forget that first voyage, a very special time:) My second boat was a Wharram 'Hitia' 14 Catamaran, again this was a unique experience and the skills it taught me (as to how cats behave) laid the perfect foundation that applied to a Hobie 16 which I now own.

 

Thoughts? hmmm....if I could have done anything different on either the Mirror or Hitia. The Mirror could have done with a basic Assymetric Spinnaker system maybe. I sailed solo so the classic symmetrical spinnaker would have been a bit tricky on my own.

 

The Hitia Cat could have done with its Beams being made from alloy mast section (small yacht type mast section) this would have made a much lighter all up weight. A mesh trampoline would be more comfy than the current ply deck.

 

What I am saying is keep the build simple but explore the options to keep the craft light and comfy. The Moth scows look fun, reminds me of the 'Topper' scow dinghys (plastic hulled, very common in the UK sailing schools at one time) Don't skimp on the sail and rig, get the best you can afford. Don't be tempted to make your own sail. Proper sails have built in camber etc and behave in a certain way when secondary controls are tweaked. In fact the sail and rig will make up over half your budget for a build, on a guess. Been a while since I built my two projects so figures are a bit hazy.

 

Ply stitch and glue/glass covering etc methods open up a whole realm of projects. Its a good method and leaves you with a craft that's light for its size and is easily fixable should you prang the boat :)

 

Have fun!

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i think i start with McFrawd/Bunyip boat. Jim Frenchs instructions are clear but no description of size of each part so i try mix numbers together by using plans of Bunyip and mScow. Wings will be included.

 

Mark did incredible job with the concept of mScow (the skiff also) and id choose it if I decided carbon/foam construction.

 

At the moment, I try calculate dimensions in a 3d program and PhotoShop. Also calculating material costs. I don't mind an undersized rig at first.

The fun has started :P

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have you otherwise looked at the International canoe?

 

 

 

Looks complicated.. Foiling moth is fastest :P

 

For your first ever build I would keep it simple. You could add the wings later maybe? Either way, building your own boat is a special experience. You only need some basic carpentry skills and a willingness to learn how to use epoxy resin etc. Ply 'stitch n glue' methods vary but will result in a good build if you get the basics right.

 

Plenty of hints and tips on YouTube I would have thought.

 

My first build was a Kit, a 'Mirror' dinghy. I wont ever forget that first voyage, a very special time:) My second boat was a Wharram 'Hitia' 14 Catamaran, again this was a unique experience and the skills it taught me (as to how cats behave) laid the perfect foundation that applied to a Hobie 16 which I now own.

 

Thoughts? hmmm....if I could have done anything different on either the Mirror or Hitia. The Mirror could have done with a basic Assymetric Spinnaker system maybe. I sailed solo so the classic symmetrical spinnaker would have been a bit tricky on my own.

 

The Hitia Cat could have done with its Beams being made from alloy mast section (small yacht type mast section) this would have made a much lighter all up weight. A mesh trampoline would be more comfy than the current ply deck.

 

What I am saying is keep the build simple but explore the options to keep the craft light and comfy. The Moth scows look fun, reminds me of the 'Topper' scow dinghys (plastic hulled, very common in the UK sailing schools at one time) Don't skimp on the sail and rig, get the best you can afford. Don't be tempted to make your own sail. Proper sails have built in camber etc and behave in a certain way when secondary controls are tweaked. In fact the sail and rig will make up over half your budget for a build, on a guess. Been a while since I built my two projects so figures are a bit hazy.

 

Ply stitch and glue/glass covering etc methods open up a whole realm of projects. Its a good method and leaves you with a craft that's light for its size and is easily fixable should you prang the boat :)

 

Have fun!

 

thanks. Some useful advices.

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troll99. I am the owner of the red and black scow moth that you have shown an old photo of, looking as it was when I purchased it a few years ago. It's a 1972 Imperium scow design built by Osmand. Although it looks good in your photo it was actually a mess and unsailable as it was when I bought it - the kicker made up with a backstay adjuster from a small yacht, the slurry of coarse sand and black paint in the cockpit, the leaking hatches, the hopeless mainsheet blocks etc etc. I stripped it and started from bare wood. It was a nostalgia thing as I used to have one of these in the 1970's. The Imperium dates from before wings were developed and has a heavy Needlespar mast. It therefore is not a boat for heavy weather although having fitted reefing point to the mainsail I can cope. It's for sale if you are keen.

I have also built an Aya 9 winged scow design (courtesy of Ohno San of the scow facebook group) in carbon and can let you have the full size paper plan for the eleven stations made from his offset measurements if that would be any help. Although the original Aya 9 was built in plywood and not designed as a foiler, I have fitted foils to this design and it works well enough although it is certainly not fast as it is rather heavy (owing to inexperience in carbon fiber construction). The huge amount of buoyancy in the bow counteracts nosediving very successfully . Pictures are on the scow facebook group site.

I am currently building another narrower foiling scow in carbon. If you are in the UK please get in touch.

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