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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

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35 posts in this topic

we bought a 505. it has lots of upgrades but is still an old beater. we need to re-glue parts of the CB trunk to the floor, reinforce the CB pivots, and re attach some of the tabbing to the hull. It is a Lindsey finished Parker hull late '70's. the inner skin looks like Kevlar. The class website has some archived projects that sorta address this stuff but any advice is welcome.

The next question is the main sheet block. it is missing. I know what it looks like. I can buy it at Fisheries. The girl wants me to drive because she doesn't think she can sheet it well enough and hold it in up breeze moments. I am wondering about either another part of purchase and a BIG hexarathchet if there is such a thing will it help her. She is undoubtedly a better driver than me so this is important. Thanks

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Take a page out of Smart Art's book of secrets and you sheet from the wire. It was unusual when he did it in 1973, but is standard practice for all the 9ers and skiff like teams.

SHC

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we bought a 505. it has lots of upgrades but is still an old beater. we need to re-glue parts of the CB trunk to the floor, reinforce the CB pivots, and re attach some of the tabbing to the hull. It is a Lindsey finished Parker hull late '70's. the inner skin looks like Kevlar. The class website has some archived projects that sorta address this stuff but any advice is welcome.

The next question is the main sheet block. it is missing. I know what it looks like. I can buy it at Fisheries. The girl wants me to drive because she doesn't think she can sheet it well enough and hold it in up breeze moments. I am wondering about either another part of purchase and a BIG hexarathchet if there is such a thing will it help her. She is undoubtedly a better driver than me so this is important. Thanks

On My 505 I run a 3:1 main sheet system and it's not hard to hold sailing up wind.

 

It's all about the boom vang.

 

when sailing up wind and I run a 16:1 vang system. When sailing up wind it's crank the vang on and the weight on the main sheet is very little. When the main sheet loads up sailing up wind crank on the vang and the load on the main sheet eases up.

 

Pulpit

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My recommendation would be to chat w some of the women sailors in the fleet.

If she is the better driver, by all means put her on the helm.

start and in light air and are work your way up.

 

The main is hardest to trim when the wind is up and down and the helm is trying to keep the crew out of the water and when on a two sail reach in a blow.

Two sail reaches in a blow can be a work out. When racing, I would avoid them between races to conserve energy.

 

I would also add that if your boat is not dialed in(tuned right), the main can be a bigger work out.

When the 505 is setup right, it's actually quite easy to sail, even in a blow. When it's not, you will find yourself working to get the boat to move upwind.

 

Look at pictures of 505's. If choose to do end boom sheeting, a 3:1 can be used. If you do mid boom, I think 4:1 is pretty common.

 

Personally, coming from someone who has spent all his sailing in the back of a boat, I think crewing on the 505 requires more strength then driving.

 

Congrats on your purchase/project.

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A couple of options come to mind (neither of which I use on my 505 as I sail with guys who like to have control of the mainsheet (I crew). You could go with headknocker system (see first pic) which would make it convenient for her to hand you the sheet to play that upwind. Or, you could do a double-ended mainsheet like the Star and have a tail go out to each rail. That would end up producing a lot of extra line in the boat but at least you would have ready access to it on the rail.

post-8657-0-38702000-1492011718_thumb.jpeg

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from the one regatta i sailed in a 505, and my dinghy experience in general, i think you're best off having her drive and you crew, and she does the main (and this from a 29er sailor!). Put a good vang on the boat. As pulpit said, if the vang is setup right then the loads are pretty manageable. The crewing on these boats is very physical... Plus you want the weight out there.

 

For those that are having the crew sheet, how do you control jib trim through wind velocity changes? Playing the jib car?

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There is a lot of information about 70s 505s in a thread that I started a few years ago. Another frequent poster in that thread was Locus. I had life stuff get in the way of me finishing the project, but loved what sailing I did on the boat.

 

My mainsheet was switched to a split bridle that was end boom and then ran to a block mid-boom and then to a ratchet block mid-boat. A strong vang (24:1) was used to control leech tension, the mainsheet just controlled boom position.

 

The Seattle 505 fleet is also really helpful. All of the 505s are rigged differently and seeing boats in person was helpful for me figuring out my own boat. A good book is "Rig your Dinghy Right" which has a lot of detail on the 505, 420, and older i14s. It is out of print but I got a used for copy for about $10.

 

Sadly my old 505 is getting very little use or love by it's new owner.

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I'm completely with Steve. Have the forward hand take the main upwind and on white sail reaches. Its just faster. Have a ratchet block on the boom and sheet from there.

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My recommendation would be to chat w some of the women sailors in the fleet.

 

Congrats on your purchase/project.

Off the top of my head, I can count at least 6 female helms currently racing in the PNW. Get hooked up with the locals, you'll be fine.

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yep there are at least 6. Although one of those boats is now for sale. Most use mid boom 4:1 but a few are transom 1:1. Smashing Pumpkins has transom 3:1 and i think she can drop the upper block and go 1:1 transom.

 

Mine came rigged for both, former female driver. She liked the transom for ight air, but tacking with it can be difficult (extension gets caught in bridle) and they would change to mid boom in wind over 12 or someting like that.

 

I find that in a blow my transom can get heavy to control. Vang helps but still takes some muscle. I have sailed mid boom and they are much easier in higher wind but require much more rope to move. So in puffy conditions lots more movement but less load. I am typically moving the sheet 4-6" in and out when overpowered much more than that on a regular basis, we rake and power down.

 

since I am hiked at that point I use my body to pull rather than my arms since the movement is small. Mid boom you have to pull a 2' of rope and let 2' off to get 6' of boom out. I find that tiring

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A good book is "Rig your Dinghy Right" which has a lot of detail on the 505, 420, and older i14s. It is out of print but I got a used for copy for about $10.

 

 

I got a copy for a lot more than $10, hoping for guidance on setting up my 'new to me' 505 and found that there wasn't much that wasn't obvious. You've had more detailed advice here already on how powerful the vang needs to be, for example. The book tends to make generalizations that apply to many different dinghies and there's a lot of material that simply doesn't apply. Vang levers and screw mast rams are long gone. The other disappointment was that the photos of 505's that they do have are not big enough follow in detail or to really be useful. Photos from the old and new 505 website are a better source of ideas. I found that simply getting in the boat and figuring out what would have to go where, and what would work, was more efficient use of my time.

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She'll do great driving....let's do some tuning up this summer at PMYC. Stas and I will be out there pretty often :)

 

we bought a 505. it has lots of upgrades but is still an old beater. we need to re-glue parts of the CB trunk to the floor, reinforce the CB pivots, and re attach some of the tabbing to the hull. It is a Lindsey finished Parker hull late '70's. the inner skin looks like Kevlar. The class website has some archived projects that sorta address this stuff but any advice is welcome.

The next question is the main sheet block. it is missing. I know what it looks like. I can buy it at Fisheries. The girl wants me to drive because she doesn't think she can sheet it well enough and hold it in up breeze moments. I am wondering about either another part of purchase and a BIG hexarathchet if there is such a thing will it help her. She is undoubtedly a better driver than me so this is important. Thanks

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Great help guys. I think I can work out a main sheet she can use from this stuff. I have been a proponent of losing purchase on the sixes for faster sheeting but they all have new 42's or should. Girl might need to pump some iron. I appreciate the advice about 2' of sheet from the rail. That would be tough to keep me out of the drink. Where does the Seattle 505 fleet race?

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How about crew sheeting from the trap?

We've done it quite a bit on the fd and many modern classes do.

Might be worth considering for the setup.

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Great help guys. I think I can work out a main sheet she can use from this stuff. I have been a proponent of losing purchase on the sixes for faster sheeting but they all have new 42's or should. Girl might need to pump some iron. I appreciate the advice about 2' of sheet from the rail. That would be tough to keep me out of the drink. Where does the Seattle 505 fleet race?

Shilshole and various northwest regattas(CGOD, Squamish, etc..) Join the 505 Northwest google group.

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Here's another solution

(headknocker sheeting system?)

post-64719-0-84457900-1492266102_thumb.jpg

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Looks very wet.

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Also appears the CB's halfway down -- I assume they're on a gybe, but with that much hiking moment wouldn't you want it all the way down?

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That picture is taken in the early '70's and the boat had a low aspect foil that needed to be pulled up off the wind. Note also the non full length foredeck.

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Take a page out of Smart Art's book of secrets and you sheet from the wire. It was unusual when he did it in 1973, but is standard practice for all the 9ers and skiff like teams.

SHC

 

Steve is as usual right on. Carl and Carol Buchan did very well for many years doing this. She would place her hand on the sheet to feel what Carl was doing and stay in the boat.

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mikeholt, any ideas how mast bend was controlled on that early '70's example? Doesn't look like there's any place for chocks.

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There might be chocks (hard to see). There might also be a threaded screw of some sort.

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The mast step on my boat had multiple positions with screws to select one. The deck position was controlled with a ram that you adjusted like a turnbuckle. There were quick adjusting (but not while sailing) turnbuckles for the shrouds.

 

It mostly seemed like a 70s setup.

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That all sounds about right, I think the screw mechanisms were popular.

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post-101699-0-08260700-1492746739_thumb.jpgMy 74 Rondar has a magic box like ram that pushes on the mast.

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If you want a magic box or two for the ram, I have one or two from old 5-Oh's I've cut up over the years.

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Mee too

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I do not want anything like a majik box. Sockeye was full of'em when I got her. Nothing but trouble. 

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As someone who never had the skill or knowledge to sail one, I think the 505 is the most awesome boat on the planet.  Meanwhile, I'll keep dawdling along in my Laser.

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On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:22 AM, tedcengel said:

Here's another solution

(headknocker sheeting system?)

post-64719-0-84457900-1492266102_thumb.jpg

I believe that that is John? Surtees sailing this boat.  And the caption below read  PARKER RULES!

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Things are coming along. Now I need a twin spirit/spinno. I found a boat with the main sheet block I will get. Main set back is rot/Delam in CB trunk wall. The fix will add some weight but I will keep it as light as my gorilla engineering will allow. 

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Are you looking for a double spiro fitting or the Waterrat twin pole fitting. The latter is better and cheaper.  PVG may have one or can get one plus  the pole ends. I want to say it was around $600 for both. (Don't hold me to that I bought the carbon poles at the same time and the bill was about $900. 

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