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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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that time of the month

110 posts in this topic

20 hours ago, Hershey said:

I see some of the input here has been a dissatisfaction with the W/L courses.    

Problem is; the PHRF #'s are based on W/L courses.  Deviate from W/L and the handicap falls apart..

Most of these problems could be solved with tight PHRF spreads, and with one-design they go away.

Aaaah, things have changed.  25 years ago the 6 club association I belong to would have  3 PHRF &  a  12 boat J-24 fleet show up at a regatta.    Now the 1 J-24 sails PHRF.

I guess one can sum it up with any handicapping system;; Sailers are trying to get perfect results with an imperfect system.

Hershey

That's why Socal and San Diego use a 3 number system, WL,RL and OW

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On 7/13/2017 at 9:24 PM, Hershey said:

Now -- if both boats "sail to their #"  the 105 boat should finish 4 minutes in front of the 175 boat.  

Which it does -- in ZERO current.
 
As the current increases delta between finishing times changes.  
Corrected finishes when tacking against the current gives the 105 a 1.26 minute advantage. using Time on Distance.
Time on Time  cuts the advantage to .76 minutes.  Still significant.

+1

A lot of my racing is on the Columbia River. There is no substitute for raw speed against its relentless 2 knots of current.

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Slow always sucks in current because you spend longer time in it.

Brain teaser from flight school - if you fly a round trip from A to B back to A with a 20 knot headwind going to B, is the round trip time shorter, the same, or longer than the time with no wind?

Students always answer the same because you gain 20 knots one way and lose 20 knots the other way. Well that is true, but you spend a longer time going - 20 than you do going +20, so it takes longer ;)

I would then have the students run the calculation with a 100 knot airplane and 100 knot headwind and they would get it :lol:

Back to PHRF, a 2 knot current KILLS a slow boat. Here what we get is the fastest boat(s) finish and then the wind dies. Racing against Donnybrook in their class back in the day, they had a very hard time correcting to 1st in a steady breeze, but they finished in wind when the rest of us did not plenty of times for the win.

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7 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Slow always sucks in current because you spend longer time in it.

Brain teaser from flight school - if you fly a round trip from A to B back to A with a 20 knot headwind going to B, is the round trip time shorter, the same, or longer than the time with no wind?

Students always answer the same because you gain 20 knots one way and lose 20 knots the other way. Well that is true, but you spend a longer time going - 20 than you do going +20, so it takes longer ;)

I would then have the students run the calculation with a 100 knot airplane and 100 knot headwind and they would get it :lol:

Back to PHRF, a 2 knot current KILLS a slow boat. Here what we get is the fastest boat(s) finish and then the wind dies. Racing against Donnybrook in their class back in the day, they had a very hard time correcting to 1st in a steady breeze, but they finished in wind when the rest of us did not plenty of times for the win.

Yes, you spend MORE time going slow and less time going fast.  I "went" to the same flight school.   But the guys with the faster boats keep saying it is their skill, not the boat   :-)

 

Hershey

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PHRF is not much used in NZ, our local clubs tend to use their own PHS system. PHRF works reasonably well if the fleet is divided into divisions that group similar performing boats. Sports boats with sports boats, boats up to x length etc. It does not and cannot work well for boats that have wildly different performance in different conditions. Another factor is that our sailing is often a drifter one week and 30kts with big chop the next which tends to even things out. 

Best performance data is from a website run by an amazing guy who inputs all the race results from all over the country and over time it has given excellent handicap rating comparisons. www.racetrack.org.nz

Its unrealistic to take the results of a race between a 30 foot sports boat and a 50 foot caravan seriously.

 

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22 hours ago, Tom Keffer said:

There is no substitute for raw speed against its relentless 2 knots of current.

Plusse Oune!  It mackes evreybodey on bourde looke smattere!                                :)

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21 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

Its unrealistic to take the results of a race between a 30 foot sports boat and a 50 foot caravan seriously.

 

OK, brain teaser. We had a 34 mile race (point to point, not W-L) Saturday night that had plenty of current - sometimes fair sometimes foul. Conditions included moderate air running, light air running, windy pole on the headstay reaching, light air upwind, moderately heavy air upwind, light air close reaching and about a mile of drifting at the end as two wind systems met. The wildly disparate fleet ranged from a pair of Cal 20s (which finished less than a minute apart) to a Farr 40, and included everything from modern racing boats like a Melges 20 and a Farr 395 to old wooden classics to relatively modern cruising boats like a Beneteau 40 and a Sabre 36. Given all the bitching on here about how lame PHRF is the results would clearly have skewed badly in one direction: either fast boats or slow boats or modern light displacement boats or cruising lead mines should have dominated.  

After 34 nm (six and a half hours) of racing the top 10 boats were separated by only a few minutes and a few hundred yards (it was a pursuit start).  Top ten finishers were:

1st, J-90, PHRF 48

2nd, Worth 40, PHRF 96

3rd, Lapworth 36, PHRF 150

4th, J-105, PHRF 78

5th, Farr 395, PHRF 27

6th, Figaro 2, PHRF 54

7th, Farr 40, PHRF 0

8th, Melges 20, PHRF 111

9th, Sabre 36-2, PHRF 111

10th, Cal 20, PHRF 273.

So based on the above, what kind of boat clearly dominated? Prior to the race would you have chosen a fast boat or a slow boat or a modern light displacement boat or a cruising lead mine? Leave aside the comfort, pleasure to sail and superior dinner cuisine aboard one of these fine yachts.

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SF Woody Sailor;  

One cannot base anything on ONE race.   

And back to my calculations.  Which have NOTHING to do with skipper, tactics, or boat preparations.

 Advantage  faster boat.

And you have the other gentleman here who mentioned flying school.  

Yup, the same problem when flying into a headwind, and back with a tailwind.

Hershey.  

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3 minutes ago, Hershey said:

SF Woody Sailor;  

One cannot base anything on ONE race.   

That is absolutely true. This is an anecdote not a data set, but in this case a single number PHRF system did a remarkably good job of handicapping a wildly disparate group of boats in wildly disparate conditions into a finishing order which bears a close resemblance to the skill with which they were sailed without a systematic bias towards the faster boats. I freely admit that this particular anecdote was not chosen at random but rather as an illustration.

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