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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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europa

New Boat Question

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I've been out of sailing for a long time, but want to get back into it again. When I was young and single, I had a Dyas (German made 23' keelboat with trapeze and spinnaker launching tube) that I sailed on Long Island Sound. It would probably be considered a sportboat today, other than having a traditional spinnaker rather than asymmetric. Now I'm older, kids are grown, and the town we live in, in Vermont, is on Lake Champlain. I expect that most of my sailing will be solo, but may want to take out a grandchild eventually. I do really have to find out my wife's thoughts on this, but I do not see her wanting to go out much, or to go out with friends. I have searched online for a used Dyas to no avail. There was one sold a few years ago in Canada, but before I was "ready". Now I am vacillating between a nice, but relatively sedate, Sonar, and other, hotter boats. The Sonar came out soon after I bought my Dyas, and appeared somewhat similar below the waterline. The other options I am considering, and I know there are many more choices, are the VX ONE and VX EVO. The EVO is adding a lifting bulb keel this summer, so hiking should not be as much of an issue. The One is very appealing from a speed standpoint, but I question how much hiking would be needed solo. It would at least allow others to join me, although I think they would have to be somewhat hung ho about sailing on a boat like this.

I would want to buy a Sonar or VX ONE used, but the EVO new, since the lifting keel is not out yet.

Any suggestions and advice appreciated.

Best wishes, John

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I should add that the Seascape 18 is also very appealing, and does somewhat combine the attributes of the two extremes I mentioned in the previous post, Sonar vs VX. Being new to the USA, it is probably only available new, and that is more than I (ideally) want to spend.

Thanks again, John

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There are three Viper 640s and 4-5 J/70s at LCYC and we have a Sportboat class with lots of racing. We also host an annual Viper 640 regatta.

 

I bought a newer Viper 640 and my old one is for sale.

 

PM me!

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I'm sorry I forgot to mention the i550 earlier. I read quite a bit about it, including the Pacific NW group build. I had considered building one, since I have built, and use, two stitch and glue kayaks (Pygmy Boats). The hull shape made me think it would be a lot wetter and require more hiking than the VX One. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I believe you are in the NW, and probably further than I want to transport. (Just spent 7 weeks in Dec-Jan on a cross country trip.)

Best wishes, John

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I'm sorry I forgot to mention the i550 earlier. I read quite a bit about it, including the Pacific NW group build. I had considered building one, since I have built, and use, two stitch and glue kayaks (Pygmy Boats). The hull shape made me think it would be a lot wetter and require more hiking than the VX One. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I believe you are in the NW, and probably further than I want to transport. (Just spent 7 weeks in Dec-Jan on a cross country trip.)

Best wishes, John

Boat is way drier than a VX. Not much hiking unless you're racing and want to win. Ship it on its trailer on a fladbed or rail car for cheap.

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John, The three boats you mentioned as possibilities are VERY different from each other. Try all three before you buy anything. Happy Sailing!

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I tried the EVO during a big EVO racing event recently at the Sarasota Sailing Squadron in Sarasota FL. The event was a big success with great racing and sales of new boats. I found the EVO to be everything discussed and promised " EXCEPT " for me, at age 68, it was bit too tender. The goal of the bulb ( my take on discussions with Brian Bennett ) is to make the boat less tender, MAYBE self - righting, and stable the dock. In general, more forgiving for older or less athletic sailors. This could greatly broaden the appeal of the boat to sailors with a wider range of physical abilities. My guess ( I'm no naval architect ) is that the changes in performance would be slight and the changes in appeal would be great. Should make a terrific boat even better. Waiting for details.

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Excellent stuff. Thank you.

 

 

I tried the EVO during a big EVO racing event recently at the Sarasota Sailing Squadron in Sarasota FL. The event was a big success with great racing and sales of new boats. I found the EVO to be everything discussed and promised " EXCEPT " for me, at age 68, it was bit too tender. The goal of the bulb ( my take on discussions with Brian Bennett ) is to make the boat less tender, MAYBE self - righting, and stable the dock. In general, more forgiving for older or less athletic sailors. This could greatly broaden the appeal of the boat to sailors with a wider range of physical abilities. My guess ( I'm no naval architect ) is that the changes in performance would be slight and the changes in appeal would be great. Should make a terrific boat even better. Waiting for details.

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I'm sorry I forgot to mention the i550 earlier. I read quite a bit about it, including the Pacific NW group build. I had considered building one, since I have built, and use, two stitch and glue kayaks (Pygmy Boats). The hull shape made me think it would be a lot wetter and require more hiking than the VX One. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I believe you are in the NW, and probably further than I want to transport. (Just spent 7 weeks in Dec-Jan on a cross country trip.)

Best wishes, John

Boat is way drier than a VX. Not much hiking unless you're racing and want to win. Ship it on its trailer on a fladbed or rail car for cheap.

 

 

 

Any sport boat will be wet when the conditions become fun. I think Gladiators comment on the i550 being drier is true. He has actively sailed many boats and has watched many others. The recent Bennet boats have less freeboard to save weight and material and they are good boats.

As to transport, Truckers hate to run light so a connection could be made there on the internet. Rail transport is out it isn't cheap and there is also the problem of vandalism (graffitti, gunshot, kids throwing rocks) and the rail cars ride Rough. Maybe a boater is going your direction from Portland and could trailer it to you. I don't know the price but it is probably real money less than the other boats.

My .02 cents.

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To not growing up: I realize those three are very different boats, and I also mentioned the Seascape 18, yet another type. Obviously I have some decisions about priorities to make first.

To Varan: I assume your comment on VX1 is a positive. Care to elaborate?

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To not growing up: I realize those three are very different boats, and I also mentioned the Seascape 18, yet another type. Obviously I have some decisions about priorities to make first.

To Varan: I assume your comment on VX1 is a positive. Care to elaborate?

 

I'm not Varan but here's one answer

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160160

 

FB- Doug

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To not growing up: I realize those three are very different boats, and I also mentioned the Seascape 18, yet another type. Obviously I have some decisions about priorities to make first.

To Varan: I assume your comment on VX1 is a positive. Care to elaborate?

 

I'm not Varan but here's one answer

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160160

 

FB- Doug

Thank you. Good answer.

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I've been out of sailing for a long time, but want to get back into it again. When I was young and single, I had a Dyas (German made 23' keelboat with trapeze and spinnaker launching tube) that I sailed on Long Island Sound. It would probably be considered a sportboat today, other than having a traditional spinnaker rather than asymmetric. Now I'm older, kids are grown, and the town we live in, in Vermont, is on Lake Champlain. I expect that most of my sailing will be solo, but may want to take out a grandchild eventually. I do really have to find out my wife's thoughts on this, but I do not see her wanting to go out much, or to go out with friends. I have searched online for a used Dyas to no avail. There was one sold a few years ago in Canada, but before I was "ready". Now I am vacillating between a nice, but relatively sedate, Sonar, and other, hotter boats. The Sonar came out soon after I bought my Dyas, and appeared somewhat similar below the waterline. The other options I am considering, and I know there are many more choices, are the VX ONE and VX EVO. The EVO is adding a lifting bulb keel this summer, so hiking should not be as much of an issue. The One is very appealing from a speed standpoint, but I question how much hiking would be needed solo. It would at least allow others to join me, although I think they would have to be somewhat hung ho about sailing on a boat like this.

I would want to buy a Sonar or VX ONE used, but the EVO new, since the lifting keel is not out yet.

Any suggestions and advice appreciated.

Best wishes, John

 

Buy a used VX1 and put a set of reef points in the main. That gives you 3 sail configurations in decreasing power,1. full sails, 2. roll up jib, 3. reef main (shown single-handing).

Sail reefed

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To Team Gladiator: Thanks for input on relative "dryness" of i550 vs EVO

To sailhmb: Thanks for your suggestion about reef points on the main, sounds sensible to add flexibility. That gives a wide range of potential uses and configurations, as you said. But that does complicate the decision making, since I had eliminated the VX ONE from consideration due to solo unsuitability. More choices will only slow my decision process down.

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To Team Gladiator: Thanks for input on relative "dryness" of i550 vs EVO

To sailhmb: Thanks for your suggestion about reef points on the main, sounds sensible to add flexibility. That gives a wide range of potential uses and configurations, as you said. But that does complicate the decision making, since I had eliminated the VX ONE from consideration due to solo unsuitability. More choices will only slow my decision process down.

One of the very cool things Brian did with the VX was make it modular. While it isn't raced this way generally the boat was designed from the outset to have a skiff configuration, ie no bulb and trapezes.

 

For solo sailing what this means is you can add a single trapeze (all the rigs are designed for it) and put some of that extra hp to work instead of just reefing down. You will also need to buy a longer tiller extension though.

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StumbleNola,

I assume your comments are about the EVO, since I believe the ONE has a bulb. I am waiting to learn more about the bulb version of the EVO coming this summer. I was not aware that the EVO could have a trapeze, but I am probably not interested in that at this stage of life. I guess my problem is I want speed without too much additional physical exertion. Hence the interest in the bulb on the EVO.

My recent reply to sailhmb was about his suggestion of reefing the main to solo the ONE. I wonder if the same idea, reefing main, could be applied to the Viper?

Thank to all, John

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StumbleNola,

I assume your comments are about the EVO, since I believe the ONE has a bulb. I am waiting to learn more about the bulb version of the EVO coming this summer. I was not aware that the EVO could have a trapeze, but I am probably not interested in that at this stage of life. I guess my problem is I want speed without too much additional physical exertion. Hence the interest in the bulb on the EVO.

My recent reply to sailhmb was about his suggestion of reefing the main to solo the ONE. I wonder if the same idea, reefing main, could be applied to the Viper?

Thank to all, John

No the VX One is designed to accommodate traps, I don't know about the Evo, but I doubt it.

 

The original idea with the VX was that it would sail in two configurations with the same hull.

 

1) OD - with a bulb, fractional kite, and hiking

2) Grand Prix - no bulb, masthead kite, double traps

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Thanks, I had no idea there were two such configurations for the ONE.

I did not think the EVO could have a trapeze, I was confused about which model you were discussing because of my ignorance about the "no bulb" version of the ONE.

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