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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
Ethan K

Opinions on Alerion Express 38-1

47 posts in this topic

I'm looking for a family friendly cruiser/ racer. My wife is due with our first in September. Our sailing will mostly be me sailing and my wife watching the kid or just enjoying herself on the boat. She likes coming with me sailing but doesn't really want to do any of the sailing and is especially put off by racing. I currently race on a Soverel 33, but would like to start driving my own boat in some of the more casual races, as well as some weekend cruising. I am on the western end of Lake Erie. The Alerion Express 38-1 is the first boat my wife showed any real interest in, and the jib boom fits with my intended use. The wife's requirements are a "real" head, a gally good for more than making coffee, and preferably stand up headroom. She is 5'11". The practical sailor review list the AE 38 as having 6'1/2" headroom. I'm 6'1". I'm also considering a J/32 or a new Beneteau First 25. They J/32 seems like a nice little cruising boat with good performance, but is not set up for single handing like the AE38. I'm tempted by the First 25 because of its simple design with no backstay and a tiller. The swing keel would be a nice shallow draft feature for Lake Erie as well. With it being new and so much smaller, it just feels like a lot less to be responsible for. Am I on the right track with the AE38? Any other boats I should be considering?

Thanks.

Ethan

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I think you should not buy a boat until your child is at least five years old.

Your life is about to change dramatically in the next few months, and a new big boat is going to distract you (..and divert resources and time) from what is truly important.

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I think you should buy a boat as soon as possible, before it is no longer possible.

 

Your life is about to change dramatically in the next few months, and a new big boat is going to keep you sane.

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They're both right.

 

With baby, go alerion

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I'm a brand new dad with a newish boat and say get a boat.

 

Maybe something a little smaller though? Sunfast 3200 or J/97e?

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Kids are fine on boats till about 18 months or so (put them in their car seats), when they start being (excessively) mobile. Difficult then till they get to 4-5yrs when they (sometimes) can do as they are told (get a harness and a short tether).

Get a boat. If you wait till they're mobile you'll never get one.

Get one you can singlehand in all circumstances.

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Get a boat. Not only will the baby adapt to it instantly, your partner will likely appreciate the get-away from it all that only a boat can provide(mine valued that time above everything).

 

Sure, you'll be sailing the boat by yourself and she'll be more fully engaged in tending to the package, but you three will be doing that together.

 

We sailed with two babies, back to back. All four of us often say, it was the best thing we did as a family.

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Yes, get the boat now. There are lots of ways to make a boat baby and kid friendly. When they are infants, its basically the same strategy as in a car. Once they get mobile, tethers, netting on the lifelines, lee clothes on the berths and other solutions go a long way to making junior safe. Several books written on the subject - Babies Aboard is one. The important thing for the boat selection is that it is set up to be sailed by one, as you will be solo-sailing much of the time even though your spouse is aboard.

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Get a boat now but be prepared to only use it (initally) on clam warm days..even if you just pull the headsail out and drift around thats all it needs to be until the three of you find your feet.

Babys adapt so quickly youl be amazed. Id def say a stiff boat you can single hander with a furling headsail. Everytime you go out enjoy having ur family out on the water with you.

I had to sell my 1 tonner as it was just me & my 2yr old boy it was just too hard.so ive joined the darkside and brought a launch.

Sail safe pick your weather, congrats and enjoy what ever boat you get

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My wife and your wife came out of the same mold (let me ride, screw that racing thing, I just need to nap) For kids and wives, the Alerion 38's low, no, bridge deck and traveller out of the cockpit are great features. When my kids were little, the youngest slept in her umbrella stroller beside the centerboard trunk, safely chocked for either tack yet visible from the cockpit of our catboat. It was all good.

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^^ +1

 

Get the Alerion.

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Oh man, Alerion all the way. You''ll have about 6 monhs after the kid is born that will be easy Then it gets tougher and more stressful, but so will everything.

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Big difference in the cost of the three boats you mentioned. And big difference in the yearly costs, too.

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Wyliecat 30? One sail. Everything closer.

 

Marshall Catboat?

 

Docking essentially by yourself may prove valuable.

 

Catamaran? Large bridge deck-

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The first time my wife stepped on a sailboat I had already bought it, I also like running with scissors in hands.

Lucky for me she liked it and she even comes out on races now.

Not the best advice but FWIW it may give you courage to take the plunge..... Oh and we had a 4 year old and 1 year old at the time.

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We bought our first sailboat (Catalina 22; most fun we've had on the water) when our daughter was an infant. She grew up in junior sailing, went on to collegiate sailing, coached sailing at Brisbane Boys College and now her 6 year old is signed up for the Tackers program at RQYS. I don't regret a thing!

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Oh man, Alerion all the way. You''ll have about 6 monhs after the kid is born that will be easy Then it gets tougher and more stressful, but so will everything.

 

Alerion all the way: Yes.

...about 6 months: Ummm... the first 12 months were a sleep-deprived horror show. Having the boat then might have helped. Or not.

Keep it in a marina. Expensive, but cheaper than divorce.

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I thought the Alerion doesn't have full standing headroom. With a low freeboard, you can only raise the cabin top so far before it all looks out of proportion. Best to get onboard and double check. I was hot for the J/124 until I got on one and experienced the limited 5'8? headroom.

 

Their giant mainsails and tiny jibs look a bit awkward to me but I still think the Alerion is a pretty boat. But they don't look as good when rigged with a dodger. Since I like sun and spray protection, I'm only interested in a boat if she still looks good when the canvas is up.

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It sounds like I'm on the right track with the Alerion 38. The plan was always to buy the boat before having children, and my wife is still on board with the plan.

 

I did look for some other boats that are set up for single handing. The Nonsuch's look like nice cruising boats but just don't do it for me. My wife and I chartered a Wyliecat 30 on our honeymoon, and I did look for one on Yachtworld but did not see anything. There are two Jeanneau 3200's up on Yachtworld. Both are in California, and a little more than I was looking to spend. I was hopping to stay around (or under) 75k. I did not see any J/97's for sale in the US.

 

I just got off the phone with the broker for this Alerion 38. It is suffering from gel coat cracking like any other TPI built boat from 98 to 2004. What are your thoughts? What is involved in fixing the gel coat issues, and how soon would they need to be fixed?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Alerion-Express-38--2873630/Mamaroneck/NY/United-States#.WPfuIdIrKUn

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It sounds like I'm on the right track with the Alerion 38. The plan was always to buy the boat before having children, and my wife is still on board with the plan.

 

I did look for some other boats that are set up for single handing. The Nonsuch's look like nice cruising boats but just don't do it for me. My wife and I chartered a Wyliecat 30 on our honeymoon, and I did look for one on Yachtworld but did not see anything. There are two Jeanneau 3200's up on Yachtworld. Both are in California, and a little more than I was looking to spend. I was hopping to stay around (or under) 75k. I did not see any J/97's for sale in the US.

 

I just got off the phone with the broker for this Alerion 38. It is suffering from gel coat cracking like any other TPI built boat from 98 to 2004. What are your thoughts? What is involved in fixing the gel coat issues, and how soon would they need to be fixed?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Alerion-Express-38--2873630/Mamaroneck/NY/United-States#.WPfuIdIrKUn

 

That boat started out on Yachtworld last year at $135K.

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That's quite the delta. Is it even a reparable issue?

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Gel coat is cosmetic...maybe low ball the guy and just live with it? Doesn't have any impact on how the boat sails...

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Cosmetic. Fix it in 5 years. Or dont

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The boat is a beauty. If it surveys well, go for it.

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I was on that boat at the broker last summer. Nice boat.

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I've been aboard one on the east coast. A smallish 38', but you know that. Sails well. Cockpit is excellent for a mom and kiddo - deep and secure. As I recall the cockpit benches are long enough to sleep on.

 

With good lee cloths on the settees, it should be a great boat for mom and kid. This is important, as the child need a very secure place to nap, or no one will be happy.

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The Alerion looks pretty sweet but I'm not a big fan of the daisy cutter jib set up. The 'daisy cutter' is the nickname for a bomb that effectively sends shrapnel 360 deg at leg level, sparing the vital organs.

 

Somewhere along the way stuff gets tangled up. Hopefully not everyday but it can happen. Wouldn't want that boomed jib flailing around while I'm trying to untangle something in a hurry (solo), and even if you had to kneel down and grab a tangled line your head is now at boom height.

 

Not a deal breaker but is it 'that' much more convenient than an easily managed yankee or something similar?

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fufkin,

We wouldn't want to actually have to release one sheet and tail on the other to tack our boat now would we? :rolleyes:

 

Both the early boats track across the top of the cabin and the later boats Hoyt jib boom ruin what would otherwise be a pretty neat boat in my mind...those small jibs just aren't that hard to tack. If its too hard to do, buy a stinkin' power boat!

 

That said, if you're gonna run off the wind with a jib only, the Hoyt boom will keep good shape in the jib...

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There is always an A28. That leave you lots in your budget to B&Bs, hotels with baby sitters and much more (this point should not be underrated). Moreover you will always find a slip close to where you want to be that evening, for the long season or a simple lunch tie up at the club.

 

The extra savings could mean a motorcycle which your mother-in-law will ask you to sell right after the baby's birth.

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The Alerion looks pretty sweet but I'm not a big fan of the daisy cutter jib set up. The 'daisy cutter' is the nickname for a bomb that effectively sends shrapnel 360 deg at leg level, sparing the vital organs.

 

Somewhere along the way stuff gets tangled up. Hopefully not everyday but it can happen. Wouldn't want that boomed jib flailing around while I'm trying to untangle something in a hurry (solo), and even if you had to kneel down and grab a tangled line your head is now at boom height.

 

Not a deal breaker but is it 'that' much more convenient than an easily managed yankee or something similar?

On my cutter I have a Yankee jib and a 'daisy cutter' staysail. You do have to be very aware of that little boom when you're up on the foredeck with the wind abaft abeam. BUT when you are sailing short-handed upwind, the self-tacking headsail is a dream - never have to touch a sheet, just "ready about, helm's down". (In my case, only if the Yankee is furled, which is the case once the breeze gets up).

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Get a boat. Not only will the baby adapt to it instantly, your partner will likely appreciate the get-away from it all that only a boat can provide(mine valued that time above everything).

 

Sure, you'll be sailing the boat by yourself and she'll be more fully engaged in tending to the package, but you three will be doing that together.

 

We sailed with two babies, back to back. All four of us often say, it was the best thing we did as a family.

 

I have great memories of sailing with my daughter when she was little. To her it's just part of living.

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I put on a Hoyt jib boom last year. It is totally sweet, esp downwind

 

Wait! No jib and jigger? On a 38? What are you thinking? And a wife? And a kid?

 

;)

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just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?

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'Helm's a lee' & 'Helm to weather' here.

 

I wonder how many versions there are?

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Tacking while single handing my H-Boat is a breeze since the winches are right at hand. This was not the case on my J22; it was a PITA, because the winches were on the cabin top.

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just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?

 

 

Austin this is what I've always done, will always do (hard a lee, gybe ho).

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Thank god. Ready about? Hard to lee (hardalee).

Ready to gybe? Gybe ho and go go go!

 

I love a perfect gybe. It's like being good at sex. You can't always do it, but when you do - it's something to behold.

 

Then you wonder how the hell that just happened.

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I put on a Hoyt jib boom last year. It is totally sweet, esp downwind

I would love to see some photos of Amati with the Hoyt jib boom

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just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?

 

Austin, just another dialect of sailor's language, I guess. When I grew up sailing dinghies, "Hard-a-lee" and "Helm's down" were used interchangeably. Maybe the ghosts of the former Royal Navy base linger around my area, but "Helm's down" is used a lot around here. Both are essentially the helmsman's reporting of what the tiller position is, during a tack. Put yourself on the quarter deck with Nelson and his midshipman: "Ready about?" "Aye, sir." "Tack ship." "Helm's down, sir..." And Nelson's crew would "wear ship" - the manoeuvre on a square-rigged ship - rather than gybing, which is the term for fore-and-aft rigs. The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea is a wonderful read for anyone into marine pedantry.

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Thank god. Ready about? Coming about, Hard to lee (hardalee), mast to beam (mastabeam).

Ready to gybe? Gybe ho and go go go!

 

I love a perfect gybe. It's like being good at sex. You can't always do it, but when you do - it's something to behold.

 

Then you wonder how the hell that just happened.

#imwithya

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I got some pictures of the gelcoat cracking/crazing from the dealer yesterday. I think I could put up with it. I can post some pictures when I'm in front of a computer. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good surveyor in the Long Island Sound area?

 

I did look at a few AE 28's. They are a little smaller interior and cockpit wise than I'm looking for, and seem over priced for how much boat you get.

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Whichever boat you decide on, its got to be convenient. Pay the extra bit for a good slip. Set it up so you can leave the dock in minutes. Have the gear ready to go at all times. Expect that some outings will be a measured in hours, others in minutes.

 

With a little one, little excuses to not go sailing turn into big excuses. If its part of your routine it will happen and the baby will adapt.

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My expectations for the first couple of years are that most outings will be an afternoon sail followed by dinner at the club, with a couple of overnight trips out to Put-in-Bay.

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