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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.
nematon785

Where is the middle ground? The horror...the horror...

44 posts in this topic

J36. Fractional, swept spreader fractional perfection dances before my eyes. In every way this boat speaks to me, the rig, the underbody, the balance, the speed, the ability to sail. the accommodations, It wants to sail, it loves to sail, its well designed, it is fast, it sails! and she is deep, really deep.

 

The Tartan 37, is a compromise it can creep into shallow harbor, it promises heavy weather safety in its weight and pedigree. the keel drops to meet my windward desire, and raises to sneak into the shallow end of the pool.

 

I look at the tartan, and disgust develops for the undersized blade main. and then I check NEPHRF status, and get really down A slow turd.

 

How HOW do I find a liveaboard vessel that sails worth a crap? I don't want to run aground every day...

 

Jeezus if I had tits to show I would. Single these days... carry on.

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How HOW do I find a liveaboard vessel that sails worth a crap? I don't want to run aground every day...

 

Picture-3.jpg1331748720-w124-port-above-400tx873w.jpg

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The 36.7 is same speed(ster) as J-36, better accomodations, but you should get the Swan 45.

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J36. Fractional, swept spreader fractional perfection dances before my eyes. In every way this boat speaks to me, the rig, the underbody, the balance, the speed, the ability to sail. the accommodations, It wants to sail, it loves to sail, its well designed, it is fast, it sails! and she is deep, really deep.

 

The Tartan 37, is a compromise it can creep into shallow harbor, it promises heavy weather safety in its weight and pedigree. the keel drops to meet my windward desire, and raises to sneak into the shallow end of the pool.

 

I look at the tartan, and disgust develops for the undersized blade main. and then I check NEPHRF status, and get really down A slow turd.

 

How HOW do I find a liveaboard vessel that sails worth a crap? I don't want to run aground every day...

 

Jeezus if I had tits to show I would. Single these days... carry on.

 

 

 

If you want a cheap slow boat get a hunter in the under 35' range. Just don't go more than a few miles offshore

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What's that cat-ketch? Looks pretty sweet for a shoal draft cruiser.

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First off, you need to define what your goal is here:

1. Housing

2. Shoal draft local sailing

3. Offshore passagemaking.

4. Racing/fast sailing

These goals can conflict to say the least.

For one thing, unless you are an extraordinarily disciplined live-aboard, your lightweight speed machine is soon to be loaded up with all kinds of crap and certainly will be slower than any of her sisters. Minimal race boat accommodations may really grate on you after weeks or months.

Offshore features may work against some of your other goals as well. There is a lot of stuff nice for passagemaking that will not be needed to sit at the dock on shorepower and for open ocean, the deeper the draft the better.

The Tartan 37 really is an amazingly good compromise between nice accomodations, offshore ability, and shallow draft. No, she is not a speed machine and never really was even when new. That said, the people I know that took them on passages offshore were quite happy and turned in good noon-to-noon mileage.

T-37s are not the only shallow draft boats around. C&C made a number of boats with centerboard versions. I know there were CB 35s, 37s, 40s, and 41s and maybe some others. They may have the "OMFG small main", but I wouldn't say they were slow by any means - check the ratings. C&C also made the Landfall series with fixed shallow draft keels. The Landfall 38 is essentially the racing 38 with a different interior and shallow keel.

You could also do what some do here - get a big old Chris Craft to live on and a fast dinghy for sailing ;)

* I once met an elderly couple that lived on a J-35. I think all their possessions could fit in a seabag and they were looking for some racing sails. There #1 goal was to go faster and there boat didn't weigh any more than any strictly used for racing 35. I am not sure I could live THAT minimally, but they were loving life.

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What's that cat-ketch? Looks pretty sweet for a shoal draft cruiser.

it's a Presto 30. They're very sweet. But.. offset companionway :ph34r:

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What's that cat-ketch? Looks pretty sweet for a shoal draft cruiser.

it's a Presto 30. They're very sweet. But.. offset companionway :ph34r:

 

 

And no one is making them any more, alas. They had the misfortune of trying to introduce them during the worst of the recession. But a very nice Rodger Martin design and possibly my perfect boat.

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First off, you need to define what your goal is here:

1. Housing

2. Shoal draft local sailing

3. Offshore passagemaking.

4. Racing/fast sailing

These goals can conflict to say the least.

For one thing, unless you are an extraordinarily disciplined live-aboard, your lightweight speed machine is soon to be loaded up with all kinds of crap and certainly will be slower than any of her sisters. Minimal race boat accommodations may really grate on you after weeks or months.

Offshore features may work against some of your other goals as well. There is a lot of stuff nice for passagemaking that will not be needed to sit at the dock on shorepower and for open ocean, the deeper the draft the better.

The Tartan 37 really is an amazingly good compromise between nice accomodations, offshore ability, and shallow draft. No, she is not a speed machine and never really was even when new. That said, the people I know that took them on passages offshore were quite happy and turned in good noon-to-noon mileage.

T-37s are not the only shallow draft boats around. C&C made a number of boats with centerboard versions. I know there were CB 35s, 37s, 40s, and 41s and maybe some others. They may have the "OMFG small main", but I wouldn't say they were slow by any means - check the ratings. C&C also made the Landfall series with fixed shallow draft keels. The Landfall 38 is essentially the racing 38 with a different interior and shallow keel.

You could also do what some do here - get a big old Chris Craft to live on and a fast dinghy for sailing ;)

* I once met an elderly couple that lived on a J-35. I think all their possessions could fit in a seabag and they were looking for some racing sails. There #1 goal was to go faster and there boat didn't weigh any more than any strictly used for racing 35. I am not sure I could live THAT minimally, but they were loving life.

 

Defining goals- zackly. You can't do everything, there's not enough time, so prioritizing becomes the first priority.

 

There are a couple of centerboard boats that are offshore capable, the French love them. Alubat, Ovni, Kirie made some similar boats too. Dick Carter designed a series with hydraulic lifting keels that were very good, later versions produced by Southerly in England (they tend to look 'cruisier' but have the same hulls & rigs), Tanzer made one in the mid-30-ft size, the Clearwater 35/36 and Nightwind 35.

 

The nicest keel-centerboard design I know of is the relatively-new-ish J-95 but they were pricey and not roomy. I think they made a bigger version too but I don't know what it's called and they didn't sell very many of them.

 

There are a number of lifting-bulb-keel boats, they promise better performance with almost as shallow a draft but generally are more of a PITA if you run them aground, and are not designed to operate with the keel in an in-between position.

 

It's amazing what you can find if you look hard enough.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=126753

 

IMHO wanting to live aboard a boat is kinda counterproductive. Yes it can be cheap but even in a big roomy barn of a boat that will barely sail out of it's own way, and that only downwind, it's not as comfortable as life in a cheap apartment or mobile home. And it tends to ruin the boat.

 

All this is intended to say- pick the compromises you like, but look hard at what already exists before you start reinventing the wheel.

 

FB- Doug

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If you're on the west coast, why are you concerned about shoal draft?

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If you're on the west coast, why are you concerned about shoal draft?

+1

At least on my side of the continent, older "once were racer" boats drawing over 6 feet take a big hit in price being sold as cruisers. If you can do deep draft, there are better bargains to be had for sure. Maybe the OP moved and didn't update his profile??

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in the original post he was looking at NE-PHRF

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The Tartan 37, is a compromise it can creep into shallow harbor, it promises heavy weather safety in its weight and pedigree. the keel drops to meet my windward desire, and raises to sneak into the shallow end of the pool.

 

I look at the tartan, and disgust develops for the undersized blade main. and then I check NEPHRF status, and get really down A slow turd.

 

How HOW do I find a liveaboard vessel that sails worth a crap? I don't want to run aground every day...

 

Define "crap" and where you intend to sail and how.

 

One of those turd mid 80's 37c won its division Figawi last year and did quite well N2B 2016.

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I'd say the "middle ground" is a vast spectrum between the T-37 at PHRF 177 and the J-36 at, what, 90 or so? You really need to look at some boats and decide what you can live with and what you can do without. Even then the range of options will be enormous.

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Don't leave out the Olsen 30 he suggested in his other thread. He hasn't a clue what his wants and needs are and is just spouting.

 

He should just emulate Webb and get a Moore 24.

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Don't leave out the Olsen 30 he suggested in his other thread. He hasn't a clue what his wants and needs are and is just spouting.

 

He should just emulate Webb and get a Moore 24.

I hope we get a 6 month follow up. Newsflash - there is a perfect boat but it hasn't been built yet.

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I think Steamer hits the nail on the head, when he says:

 

"IMHO wanting to live aboard a boat is kinda counterproductive. Yes it can be cheap but even in a big roomy barn of a boat that will barely sail out of it's own way, and that only downwind, it's not as comfortable as life in a cheap apartment or mobile home. And it tends to ruin the boat."

In addition, most folks will accumulate so much crap that it will take them hours to get ready to sail, so they'll never go sailing and then the boat will show up as a "great live-aboard" on CA Mocking Ads on Craig's List.

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5 ft draft live aboard that rates in the 80s? Doesn't exist.

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J36. Fractional, swept spreader fractional perfection dances before my eyes. In every way this boat speaks to me, the rig, the underbody, the balance, the speed, the ability to sail. the accommodations, It wants to sail, it loves to sail, its well designed, it is fast, it sails! and she is deep, really deep.

I remebber the J36 bieng slowe when it wase niewe.

 

 

Jeezus if I had tits to show I would. Single these days

Sorrey, notte an viabelle exscuse. Carrey on.

 

 

 

:)

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I think Steamer hits the nail on the head, when he says:

 

"IMHO wanting to live aboard a boat is kinda counterproductive. Yes it can be cheap but even in a big roomy barn of a boat that will barely sail out of it's own way, and that only downwind, it's not as comfortable as life in a cheap apartment or mobile home. And it tends to ruin the boat."

In addition, most folks will accumulate so much crap that it will take them hours to get ready to sail, so they'll never go sailing and then the boat will show up as a "great live-aboard" on CA Mocking Ads on Craig's List.

this is bullshit. I've been living aboard for 13 years, first on a Freedom 40 cat ketch and then on a Freedom 45 sloop. I sailed both boats all over new england from Northeast Harbor to Greenport LI. The 45 and I went to Bermuda. And in Boston? paying for a 45' boat and its slip year round is FAR cheaper than buying a condo or some tiny little house, especially when you figure in the convenience factor. I walk to work 25 minutes, my wife walks to her bus and is at work in less than a half hour. We couldn't buy anything for what we pay in a 100 mile radius of Boston. Both my 40 and 45 did way better than "sailing out of its own way." There is no such thing as a cheap apartment in Boston.

 

it takes a half hour to get ready to sail, maybe a little longer if we're taking our 'house' for a 2 or more week jaunt. And we never have to worry if we forgot anything.

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I think Steamer hits the nail on the head, when he says:

 

"IMHO wanting to live aboard a boat is kinda counterproductive. Yes it can be cheap but even in a big roomy barn of a boat that will barely sail out of it's own way, and that only downwind, it's not as comfortable as life in a cheap apartment or mobile home. And it tends to ruin the boat."

In addition, most folks will accumulate so much crap that it will take them hours to get ready to sail, so they'll never go sailing and then the boat will show up as a "great live-aboard" on CA Mocking Ads on Craig's List.

this is bullshit. I've been living aboard for 13 years, first on a Freedom 40 cat ketch and then on a Freedom 45 sloop. I sailed both boats all over new england from Northeast Harbor to Greenport LI. The 45 and I went to Bermuda. And in Boston? paying for a 45' boat and its slip year round is FAR cheaper than buying a condo or some tiny little house, especially when you figure in the convenience factor. I walk to work 25 minutes, my wife walks to her bus and is at work in less than a half hour. We couldn't buy anything for what we pay in a 100 mile radius of Boston. Both my 40 and 45 did way better than "sailing out of its own way." There is no such thing as a cheap apartment in Boston.

 

it takes a half hour to get ready to sail, maybe a little longer if we're taking our 'house' for a 2 or more week jaunt. And we never have to worry if we forgot anything.

 

 

In your metro area, I can see that. OTOH one of the reasons I had in mind for my post is that (as Bull said above) most people accumulate "stuff" and can't take the boat out sailing without 2 or 3 days to clean up and put everything away. I remember one fellow living aboard a lovely schooner (Jax Fla area) who had a lawnmower on his fore deck... he paid for his slip by mowing the marina grass.

 

Good choice of boats, though... I always liked the Freedom 40 but never had one.

 

FB- Doug

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Thanks Steam, the 40 was quirky but so much fun. Pointed terribly, but reached like crazy. It suffered from a teak interior that made it darker than necessary but it was a really fun boat to sail. The 45 had more living space, but I miss the ketch.

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i know im a newb. i know im a jaggass.

but i like that J36 rig. swept spreader fractional, heavy on the main. but I need something with a centerboard. c&c has it but with a huge foresail and waste of time main. smaller boats towards 30 foot are good, but fractionals are hard to find. boo hoo...

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i know im a newb. i know im a jaggass.

but i like that J36 rig. swept spreader fractional, heavy on the main. but I need something with a centerboard. c&c has it but with a huge foresail and waste of time main. smaller boats towards 30 foot are good, but fractionals are hard to find. boo hoo...

I raced on a J36 that hat had "dump the main" painted about halfway between keel and boot stripe.

Fun boat

 

WL

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I want to get a boat I can single hand into a 36" deep harbor that will do 12 knots upwind under sail, sleep eight with a microwave and a battery bank that will run the radar for 48 hours while my wife uses her hair dryer, with 40" wide side decks, electric winches, automatic foghorn, bowthrusters, full keel, redundant GPS, heavily hung cutter rig, open ocean stability, 100 horse engine in a body that looks like a Dragon for under four grand.

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Shit, I'm having Cruiserforum flashbacks...

 

One word, Nonsuch. Preferably carbon mast and/or boom.

Besides, the catboat mounted mast doesn't leave room for a lawnmower. Pretty sure you could put one in the downright cavernous cockpit lockers.

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i know im a newb. i know im a jaggass.

but i like that J36 rig. swept spreader fractional, heavy on the main. but I need something with a centerboard. c&c has it but with a huge foresail and waste of time main. smaller boats towards 30 foot are good, but fractionals are hard to find. boo hoo...

If you want serious answers, get serious. What is your price target? Is that all in or does it leave significant (up to 50%) growth for rework or stretching for a boat that needs little rework.

 

Problem you are going to have is performance boats and "cruisers" divided into different boats around 2000. Performance boats got deeper, spartan interiors, performance deck plans, etc. Cruisers got solid, often telephone pole solid, rigs, shoal draft became inefficient wings, mamma got all the comforts of home she wanted and the boat got the weight of that.

 

Older racer cruisers were heavily IOR influenced so small mains and large genoas are a big part of that.

 

Time to start some trade offs. Jboats make fairly spartan live aboards with small tanks, especially small holding tanks and limited storage. Not a bad thing if you can keep your liveaboard "stuff" equally spartan.

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Shit, I'm having Cruiserforum flashbacks...

 

One word, Nonsuch. Preferably carbon mast and/or boom.

Besides, the catboat mounted mast doesn't leave room for a lawnmower. Pretty sure you could put one in the downright cavernous cockpit lockers.

Nonsuch are good, but the Northeast 38 and 400 are better, IMHO. Mark Ellis does real nice work, we see him regularly at a local Pub around cocktail hour.

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Never heard of a Nonsuch with a carbon fibre mast. Never heard of one with a boom(wishbone maybe...).

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Never heard of a Nonsuch with a carbon fibre mast. Never heard of one with a boom(wishbone maybe...).

Guy that roomed with us a couple years ago nearly bought a Nonsuch, with non-standard carbon rig, and electric auxiliary. He ultimately settled for something more traditional, although the make escapes me at the moment.

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Interesting. A guy a couple boats down from me just converted his Nonsuch 26 to electric...limited range but for his purposes he likes it.

 

Those telephone pole masts in carbon...shit it's too early in the morning to contemplate.

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Shit, I'm having Cruiserforum flashbacks...

 

One word, Nonsuch. Preferably carbon mast and/or boom.

Besides, the catboat mounted mast doesn't leave room for a lawnmower. Pretty sure you could put one in the downright cavernous cockpit lockers.

Nonsuch are good, but the Northeast 38 and 400 are better, IMHO. Mark Ellis does real nice work, we see him regularly at a local Pub around cocktail hour.

 

you're comparing apples and oranges. You can't possibly think a NE 37 or 400 is prettier than a Nonsuch! Second, and I've said this before, all of you cats that are hung up on shrouds and shit for a cruising boat make me smile. My Freedom 45 has one thing to break for the rig to come down - the mast. how many little rings, fittings, pins, and shrouds stand between you and complete disaster? Shrouds have their place in performance sailing for sure, but it's so much simpler without them :)

 

Never heard of a Nonsuch with a carbon fibre mast. Never heard of one with a boom(wishbone maybe...).

Nonsuch's came standard with a two-piece aluminum mast, but toward the end of the production line of the N30, they introduced them with carbon rigs and changed the name to the 324. They also increased the sail area as I recall. I don't know anyone who's converted one to a standard boom, and honestly I don't know why you ever would. On the original Freedoms with spruce wishbones, the performance really wasn't there, and the wishbone bridle system was insane. Most everyone I know with an F40, 44, or any of the other originally wishbone boats went to standard booms and vangs. The exception that proved the rule was Wobegon Daze, which had a hybrid wishbone/vang/rotating wing mast setup.

 

There was a "Hinterhoeller 40" Ketch with carbon masts and essentially a Nonsuch hull but as I recall they couldn't market it as a Nonsuch. I've only seen one and it was beautiful.

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I'd say the "middle ground" is a vast spectrum between the T-37 at PHRF 177 and the J-36 at, what, 90 or so? You really need to look at some boats and decide what you can live with and what you can do without. Even then the range of options will be enormous.

 

First of all the T37 has a phrf rating of 126, not 177.

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Well my copy of the 2014 PHRF ratings has three versions, 37-1, 37-2 and 37-3 all in the 168-177 range depending upon venue. Maybe those aren't the same boat but it doesn't disprove my point either way, does it?

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From PHRF NE base handicaps:

 

Tartan 37-1 174

Tartan 37-2 126

Tartan 37-2 124

 

 

The 37-1 is the old Tartan Black Watch, A Hood design from the '60s. The 37-2 is the S&S designed and best known Tartan 37. The 37-3 (also called the Tartan 372) is Jackett's redo of the S&S boat. Almost all 37-2s are centerboard boats, almost all 37-3s have Scheel keel. Both of the latter will sail rings around the BW. They aren't fast, but they'd win everything in PHRF sight if they were rated 170ish.

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I keep coming back to the Olson 30 for a few reasons.

 

1 I am single, and I am very spartan, I have traveled for months on end living out of a subaru impreza with a heavily laden roofrack for extended periods. when I travel I take a carry on only, even for overseas, actually especially overseas. I am lost in large accommodations. A full classic army duffel has been my entire possession collection for a year at sea in the past. I am fine to rent a room near an anchorage or marina for a month at a time as I travel around.

 

2 I fear the ocean, and I am a slob who loves to lounge on the couch, but I will not abide a boat that sails poorly. I need laminated sails and battens, I will have an OCD fit if sail shape is bagged out and sloppy. I want to sail, and sail and actively sail some more.

 

3 I need something that can be easily maneuvered in new harbors and anchorages, I want a boat that prefers to sail against motoring.

 

4 years of actually surfing inshore on a surfboard tells me I will be drawn to sailing and maintain long term interest if my boat can surf swell effectively downwind, in fact the more I look at it, the more this is the crown jewel for me.

 

5. I see no other vessel that compares in the price range, The hobie 33 and J 33 are very interesting, but restored prices compare against much newer unbelievable boats that are way out of my range

 

6. The thing has some offshore pedigree, and based on my other ventures, I will begin heading further and further, one way tickets are my routine.

 

So am I way off here? Evans really stirred me with his single handing book, sometimes I think a CAL 34 is more appropriate, but then I just get meloncholy about sailing, and prudent choices begin to dominate (proper diesel needed, and it goes on from there) make me want to do something else entirely..

 

I am in budget hell. this is a big factor. I am on a 6 month work to build funds mission, and the fear that I am a dreamer rather than a sailor is snapping at my ass every day. I will be sailing every single day if I have to buy a soft deck j24 in december if it kills me.

 

J35 or 36 size new sails at cost would bury me, and looking up at bagged out bed sheets is not in the cards.

 

I need all the strings to pull, and sealing off through hulls and using a bucket/porto and a an outboard seems like a great way to sail more and avoid head down in the bilge misery on the maintenance factor.

 

Mid size with a yard trailer lets me dry out and ski for 90 days a year without coming back to barnacle bill and 2 feet of water on the sole.

 

It's my first boat. I can't handle a biggie on my own. maybe an olson 25 wouldbe even better? North sails sail trim video on youtube shows 6 sailmakers running a J35, and doing well. I am not 6 sailmakers. I am one dumb newb. J35/36 ridiculous for me.

 

Faired bottom with a faired keel, updated rudder and stock, structural improvements, new sails, outstanding maneuverability and performance, one design should I get to that stage, downwind surfing built into the design, and just enough weekend accommodations to get by...

 

am I looking in the right place?

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I'm in aspen till december, so east or west coast is not a real factor, in fact I may end up east coast say Chesapeake or similar if the mooring costs and boat availability suit, I just want to sail every day for a while. 5 foot draft, is my ideal, 6 foot if it really pays off. centerboards and heavy cruisers like the tartan are just fading into the background. I like running backstays...as long as they are not critical to keep the rig up. I want them as another option to get my desired sail shape. I want adjustable jib sheet rails and cars, I want main traveler in the cockpit, and I cannot see how a dodger could possibly work with how I want to sail my boat, unless it was some extended trunk roof hard dodger with winches on top. In fact I look at the companionway roof as an obstacle to running rigging. Gimme a few years and I'll know better I guess.

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Have you considered an Ericson? They have a reputation as fast boats.

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Yes, actually Ericsons and Cals keep coming up as excellent middle ground for me. I know the current state on these boats is everything, and sometimes I envision a clean cal 34 with a newer set of sails, a good running diesel, and a butt cushion to sit on, or an Ericson 35ii with a nice hard shell tender lashed before the mast, bimini, dodger, spray cloths and endless voyaging,  but I look at the inventory, and they all have sails from 1999. I know soft decks are slinking around, and that lovely diesel? likely gets grumpy when the swell picks up and the old crap fuel tank sloshes some crap into the filter, and at high RPM's we all know that heat exchanger will show its true colors. not to mention rudder issues and a thousand layers of misery on the hull come time to repaint and fair. the sails will make my cry being old bed sheets or patched parachutes from1950. running rigging is probably twisted nylon anchor rope from walmart and the shivs up the mast siezed years ago....

 

Then I start looking at smaller, newer, higher performance, strapped on outboard, minimal throughhulls, and new sails/rigging/structural improvements and it is hard ignore. 

 

Being able to stand up down below would be nice, but sailing long and true is more important. I can't stand doing a bunch of maintenance, I want a cooler strapped down rather than an alterntor, and running a diesel, and the endless refer maintenanceI want a nice porto loo from walmart, not a porcelain commode with endless issues with stench and hoses and through hulls and holding tanks full of someone elses turds...

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