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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
jack_sparrow

You sick of reading that anologue barometer??

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Vendors like B&G have been including digital barometer recording in their electronic packages for a long time now.

 

Other vendors simply haven't bothered. I have always thought that pretty weird particularly for the cruising folk who may or may not have access to proper weather data and rely on what is happening in their space in real time to do their own forecasting. Many of those also only have mid-range stuff like Raymarine etc that don't incorporate a barometer.

 

I came across this pearl sitting in the desert the other day to correct that vendor disconnect for anyone running even proprietary NMEA 2K. They don't do 183 though.

 

http://www.yachtd.com/products/sensors.html

 

They also do a lot of other NMEA 2K interface stuff from engine data down to fridge temps etc.

 

http://www.yachtd.com/products/

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The analog barometers on most boats are worthless

 

But, i have also not had much success with the B&G barometer - some of them have significant drift even over the course of a short voyage.

 

I have a reasonably good standalone electronic barometer that i bring offshore with me

 

i like it because i use it at home every day- it is running on my desk - and I know how much it drifts and how often i have to reset the calibration. because i use it frequently, i have confidence in it.

 

by the way - i have done a pretty careful long term study of the iphone barometer.., and found that the one in my phone is excellent - the drift is small and predictable, and i get very good numbers from it.

 

unfortunately.., that doesn't mean the one in your phone is just as good.., but it might be - study it for a few weeks before a voyage and you will have some idea of whether you can trust it.

 

personally, i wouldn't rely on the iphone barometer.., but it's good to know it can be a backup

 

if you navigate offshore on a variety of boats.., i think it's important to have your own _good_ barometer that you can bring with you. only by using it regularly can you have confidence in it.

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The analog barometers on most boats are worthless

 

But, i have also not had much success with the B&G barometer - some of them have significant drift even over the course of a short voyage.

 

I have a reasonably good standalone electronic barometer that i bring offshore with me

 

i like it because i use it at home every day- it is running on my desk - and I know how much it drifts and how often i have to reset the calibration. because i use it frequently, i have confidence in it.

 

by the way - i have done a pretty careful long term study of the iphone barometer.., and found that the one in my phone is excellent - the drift is small and predictable, and i get very good numbers from it.

 

unfortunately.., that doesn't mean the one in your phone is just as good.., but it might be - study it for a few weeks before a voyage and you will have some idea of whether you can trust it.

 

personally, i wouldn't rely on the iphone barometer.., but it's good to know it can be a backup

 

if you navigate offshore on a variety of boats.., i think it's important to have your own _good_ barometer that you can bring with you. only by using it regularly can you have confidence in it.

Calibrate your heart out US but accuracy doesn't mean a lot...name of the game is pressure trend not so much actual to micro mb readings.

 

Digital recording of pressure, impresice as it may be, makes life so much easier on a sailboat, and in a lot of cases short crewed/experience lacking wise.

 

There is a lot of other more important shit to deal with than trolling through hand written on watch enviro logs....if in fact they are even done compared to quickly looking at a digital graph.Its called the 21st century.

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I have one of those YachtDevices barometers on my boat and it works great. The Raymarine gear talks to it just fine but Ray doesn't yet display historical data, just the instantaneous reading. I and numerous others have submitted a feature request for this via their feature request forum. They do have other "strip chart" data display objects (e.g. depth) in their software so I think this'll happen eventually.

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I have a reasonably good standalone electronic barometer that i bring offshore with me

 

i like it because i use it at home every day- it is running on my desk - and I know how much it drifts and how often i have to reset the calibration. because i use it frequently, i have confidence in it.

 

.

 

Make and model please? Cheers

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i am currently using this one - it's made by a french company, but marketed in the usa by weems and plath

 

http://www.weems-plath.com/Products/Electronic-Barometer.html

 

but i think the one made by Mintaka.., and now also marketed by weems and plath is the one to get - but it's $600

 

http://www.weems-plath.com/Mintaka.html

 

the key thing is that pretty much no matter what you get, you need to check it regularly against known good values. the instruments drift...

 

i am pretty much always checking mine, but i am especially rigorous in say the week or two before an offshore trip

 

i have a excel sheet that automatically gets mslp readings from several surrounding airports, and then essentially fits a planar surface to them and calculates the expected value at my house. i then adjust the fixed offset based on averaging the difference over some time perod. i also look at the surface analysis, to make sure there is nothing weird going on - no steep gradients that are not roughly planar in my area. i also compare frequently with the gfs and euro forecast for my house in expedition.

 

but, you can only achieve so much...

 

not only does the fixed correction vary over time.., but it also has a pressure dependence - it's not the same over even the small range of pressure you are likely to encounter at at sea level

 

anyway, i figure that over an offshore trip of say a week or two, i am within 0.25 or 0.5mb - it's not great, but it's good enough.

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I've been using the Aquatech unit for two years now. It ships with a Pressure calibration test report and a due date for calibration.

 

http://www.digitalbarograph.com/

 

I have it normally at home, but currently on the boat I am navving for this year, Good data output and nice trending graphs, which as noted above is really the important info for forecasting changes.

 

I really like having a portable stand alone unit that I have been using over a period of time so that one can track changes. Also, IMO it is much better to have a barograph as opposed to a barometer.

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I have one of those YachtDevices barometers on my boat and it works great. The Raymarine gear talks to it just fine but Ray doesn't yet display historical data, just the instantaneous reading. I and numerous others have submitted a feature request for this via their feature request forum. They do have other "strip chart" data display objects (e.g. depth) in their software so I think this'll happen eventually.

IStream does that Ray shortcoming also apply to their MFD's? I thought since the E series which must be 7 years years old now that you could customise nmea data any way you like including in a graphical/history format.

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Sorry I wasn't clear, I was talking about the Lighthouse II MFDs. The DY barometer is an N2K device and it shows up just fine as a data source for my eS displays but only with numerical readout, no time series yet.

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Slight thread drift.....

As noted, pressure trend is much more useful than instantaneous readout. Its implied above that Raymarine (and others) can display this; is this so?

I'm also interested in displaying other trends: boat speed, AWA, wind speed, etc.

Anyone know of a NMEA compatible graph plotting-type display that can do this?

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Slight thread drift.....

As noted, pressure trend is much more useful than instantaneous readout. Its implied above that Raymarine (and others) can display this; is this so?

I'm also interested in displaying other trends: boat speed, AWA, wind speed, etc.

Anyone know of a NMEA compatible graph plotting-type display that can do this?

Prior to Raymarine selling to Flir in 2010 they only had a limited selection of 2K compatible devises using their NG and also a 2K network arrangement for digital radar and linking MFD's. The only 2K devices was the small ST70 display and their last MFD, the E Series. These two can be set up to display both 183 and 2K data in graph/history form.

 

Flir then completely changed the product line and as IStream indicates that customised graph/history feature appears to not have been carried forward.

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Cutter the Mintaka is the standard. Their model with GPS to record location/speed/heading with each pressure reading is pretty cool. Around $800. W&P now distribute not Starpath.

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Slight thread drift.....

As noted, pressure trend is much more useful than instantaneous readout. Its implied above that Raymarine (and others) can display this; is this so?

I'm also interested in displaying other trends: boat speed, AWA, wind speed, etc.

Anyone know of a NMEA compatible graph plotting-type display that can do this?

Prior to Raymarine selling to Flir in 2010 they only had a limited selection of 2K compatible devises using their NG and also a 2K network arrangement for digital radar and linking MFD's. The only 2K devices was the small ST70 display and their last MFD, the E Series. These two can be set up to display both 183 and 2K data in graph/history form.

 

Flir then completely changed the product line and as IStream indicates that customised graph/history feature appears to not have been carried forward.

 

Thanks, Jack, I'll look into the Raymarine stuff, may need to get a used one? (I don't know the Raymarine products well.)

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i thought about buying one of these USB baromters a while back - no NMEA out though

 

http://www.gcdataconcepts.com/b1100-1.html

 

i would probably get the Aquatech, with the NIST calibration, if it had NMEA over USB

 

Starpath no longer sells the Mintaka Duo - Weems and Plath is now the importer

 

whatever i get next.., i need to be able to connect it to my pc and log it in expedition - and i want it to be stand-alone, i.e. not connected to the instrument system, so that i can easily take it from one boat to another.

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US just be aware of the offerings out there. For instance even a firm like w&P have put their name behind and distributed a few digital barometer offerings to date. They then have stepped away from them all because they then proved to be either crap or became obsolete. The Mintaka they now distribute certainly does not sit in that category.

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Ive been using starpath minkata http://www.fischer-barometer.de/katalog/dokumente/meteo/e330202_02.pdf for a few years now, very good. Can interface into expedition and subsequently deckman.

i didn't think it did NMEA out - how do you connect it to expedition?

NMEA out and then easy peasy into Expedition is one of its strong points

 

 

i believe you.., but i downloaded the manual, and searched it for "nmea".., and it didn't find anything...

 

i agree with your comment about W and P - a lot of their stuff is junk

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Casio watch with barometer. Write it in the logbook a few times per day. No wires. Zero weight. Almost zero cost. Column of numbers gives a good representation of the trend. Seems to be accurate, although as indicated by others above, slow drift is not a big deal.

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Ive been using starpath minkata http://www.fischer-barometer.de/katalog/dokumente/meteo/e330202_02.pdf for a few years now, very good. Can interface into expedition and subsequently deckman.

i didn't think it did NMEA out - how do you connect it to expedition?

NMEA out and then easy peasy into Expedition is one of its strong points

i believe you.., but i downloaded the manual, and searched it for "nmea".., and it didn't find anything...

 

i agree with your comment about W and P - a lot of their stuff is junk

Sorry US I had yacht devices on my mind. Brain fade. Mintaka uses USB so add drivers and virtual comm port into Expedition.

 

There is this nmea one if that is your preference which on face value looks to be similiar to the Mintaka for precision and price.

 

http://www.bohlken.net/bg/bg1512_en.htm

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PS. US actually couple of hundred USD cheaper than the Mintaka as it seems price has remained unchanged in 10 years. I'm not having an accuracy day. They also do a black box 183 only no screen/no USB version which is cheaper again. That could be good buy for your portability requirement as I suspect considerably more accurate than Yacht Devises snappy little cheap and cheerful plug and play 2K fixture number.

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I looked into the Bohiken barograph a few years ago

 

it seems to have only one calibration factor - a fixed offset that appears to include both the elevation offset and any instrument error.

 

it does seem to automatically do the temperature correction

 

the Aquatech unit can be calibrated at something like 10 values within the normal range of MSLP variation - this is better, as the instrument error is not constant across the range of pressures we might encounter. It also has an elevation offset. I think the Aquatech has no capacity for output to an instrument system or PC

 

It appears that the mintaka has two calibrations - an elevation offset, and a single instrument error correction.

 

i think what i really want is something with the high quality instrument, and advanced calibration features of the aquatech, but with a modern interface, and the recording features of the Mintaka.., maybe just a bit updated. And, obviously NMEA out over USB.

 

I don't think there is anything like that yet

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I looked into the Bohiken barograph a few years ago

 

it seems to have only one calibration factor - a fixed offset that appears to include both the elevation offset and any instrument error.

 

it does seem to automatically do the temperature correction

 

the Aquatech unit can be calibrated at something like 10 values within the normal range of MSLP variation - this is better, as the instrument error is not constant across the range of pressures we might encounter. It also has an elevation offset. I think the Aquatech has no capacity for output to an instrument system or PC

 

It appears that the mintaka has two calibrations - an elevation offset, and a single instrument error correction.

 

i think what i really want is something with the high quality instrument, and advanced calibration features of the aquatech, but with a modern interface, and the recording features of the Mintaka.., maybe just a bit updated. And, obviously NMEA out over USB.

 

I don't think there is anything like that yet

USB hasn't been a bad experience, it has worked perfectly well and setting it up in expedition and subsequently out to deckman and B&G displays is easy, giving you all the strip chart options you could ever want. With using it in a strip chart i get easy access and good viewing options via my deckscreen/tablet.

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I looked into the Bohiken barograph a few years ago

 

it seems to have only one calibration factor - a fixed offset that appears to include both the elevation offset and any instrument error.

 

it does seem to automatically do the temperature correction

 

the Aquatech unit can be calibrated at something like 10 values within the normal range of MSLP variation - this is better, as the instrument error is not constant across the range of pressures we might encounter. It also has an elevation offset. I think the Aquatech has no capacity for output to an instrument system or PC

 

It appears that the mintaka has two calibrations - an elevation offset, and a single instrument error correction.

 

i think what i really want is something with the high quality instrument, and advanced calibration features of the aquatech, but with a modern interface, and the recording features of the Mintaka.., maybe just a bit updated. And, obviously NMEA out over USB.

 

I don't think there is anything like that yet

USB hasn't been a bad experience, it has worked perfectly well and setting it up in expedition and subsequently out to deckman and B&G displays is easy, giving you all the strip chart options you could ever want. With using it in a strip chart i get easy access and good viewing options via my deckscreen/tablet.

 

 

but which unit are you connecting via USB - what I have learned.., through using them.., is that not all the instruments are good enough.

 

can you calibrate it at may different pressure values, or only at one?

 

how much does the instrument drift?

 

i am on boats all the time with the B&G barometer connected to the instruments, and going to expedition - i don't trust them at all. some may work.., but i have seen enough that don't work well, that i always just ignore them, and use my own.

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I only use the Minkata, check calibrate it to the area im in, one value. Havent had any drift issues (havent noticed anyway)

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You can easily build (incl calibration) a baro using an Arduino board and a Bosch BMP280 sensor.

Have a look at the data sheet: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmp280

 

Here's how to do it:

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bmp280-barometric-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-breakout

 

Works like a charm with Expedition via USB and also works perfectly via NMEA (and Expedition) when extended with a MAX485 board to do the conversion to RS485.

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You can easily build (incl calibration) a baro using an Arduino board and a Bosch BMP280 sensor.

Have a look at the data sheet: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmp280

 

Here's how to do it:

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bmp280-barometric-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-breakout

 

Works like a charm with Expedition via USB and also works perfectly via NMEA (and Expedition) when extended with a MAX485 board to do the conversion to RS485.

 

Got an NMEA 2K interface for all of that?

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You can easily build (incl calibration) a baro using an Arduino board and a Bosch BMP280 sensor.

Have a look at the data sheet: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmp280

 

Here's how to do it:

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bmp280-barometric-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-breakout

 

Works like a charm with Expedition via USB and also works perfectly via NMEA (and Expedition) when extended with a MAX485 board to do the conversion to RS485.

 

Got an NMEA 2K interface for all of that?

 

In theory a person could build that.

 

I'd ditch the Arduino and go with a PSoC 5LP. IIRC, you get hardware support for CAN, UARTs (in case you want 0183 connectivity), I2C or whatever the baro needs, and or other stuff and a good ARM core. The dev kit is affordable (similar to Arduino) and has a programmer built in. The trivial task of going from bits to a system are left as an exercise for the reader. :ph34r:

 

Actually, I'd just stick with the perfectly adequate barometers I have. But that doesn't sound very exciting.

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You can easily build (incl calibration) a baro using an Arduino board and a Bosch BMP280 sensor.

Have a look at the data sheet: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmp280

 

Here's how to do it:

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bmp280-barometric-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-breakout

 

Works like a charm with Expedition via USB and also works perfectly via NMEA (and Expedition) when extended with a MAX485 board to do the conversion to RS485.

 

Got an NMEA 2K interface for all of that?

 

In theory a person could build that.

 

I'd ditch the Arduino and go with a PSoC 5LP. IIRC, you get hardware support for CAN, UARTs (in case you want 0183 connectivity), I2C or whatever the baro needs, and or other stuff and a good ARM core. The dev kit is affordable (similar to Arduino) and has a programmer built in. The trivial task of going from bits to a system are left as an exercise for the reader. :ph34r:

 

Actually, I'd just stick with the perfectly adequate barometers I have. But that doesn't sound very exciting.

 

 

With parts and labor totaled, the YD baro is a deal @ $100 and ready to go on NMEA 2K

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You can easily build (incl calibration) a baro using an Arduino board and a Bosch BMP280 sensor.

Have a look at the data sheet: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmp280

 

Here's how to do it:

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bmp280-barometric-pressure-plus-temperature-sensor-breakout

 

Works like a charm with Expedition via USB and also works perfectly via NMEA (and Expedition) when extended with a MAX485 board to do the conversion to RS485.

Got an NMEA 2K interface for all of that?

In theory a person could build that.

 

I'd ditch the Arduino and go with a PSoC 5LP. IIRC, you get hardware support for CAN, UARTs (in case you want 0183 connectivity), I2C or whatever the baro needs, and or other stuff and a good ARM core. The dev kit is affordable (similar to Arduino) and has a programmer built in. The trivial task of going from bits to a system are left as an exercise for the reader. :ph34r:

 

Actually, I'd just stick with the perfectly adequate barometers I have. But that doesn't sound very exciting.

With parts and labor totaled, the YD baro is a deal @ $100 and ready to go on NMEA 2K

They had it on sale for $69 last Black Friday. Don't know if that's a regular thing or not and the ruble was worth about 20% less back then, so it'd be more painful for them now.

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Speak of the devil...Yacht Devices just started a 15% off promotion on all products through the end of April with the coupon code USBRELEASE.

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The marine barometer from Bohlken Westerland is my recommendation http://www.bohlken.net/bg/bg1512_en.htm

The one I bought last year also has an USB output on the front.

 

http://www.toplicht.de/jpeg/4426001.JPG

 

 

the older model had serial out - right?

 

does the new one still have serial out the back?

 

i think you mostly want output on the back, for a cleaner installation...

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The marine barometer from Bohlken Westerland is my recommendation http://www.bohlken.net/bg/bg1512_en.htm

 

The one I bought last year also has an USB output on the front.http://www.toplicht.de/jpeg/4426001.JPG

the older model had serial out - right?

does the new one still have serial out the back?

i think you mostly want output on the back, for a cleaner installation...

The old and current ones have NMEA out on the back, which you can connect to a serial or USB port using an appropriate cable. A nice feature is that it gives an alarm on substantial pressure changes which might lead to very strong winds.

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Slight thread drift.....

As noted, pressure trend is much more useful than instantaneous readout. Its implied above that Raymarine (and others) can display this; is this so?

I'm also interested in displaying other trends: boat speed, AWA, wind speed, etc.

Anyone know of a NMEA compatible graph plotting-type display that can do this?

Prior to Raymarine selling to Flir in 2010 they only had a limited selection of 2K compatible devises using their NG and also a 2K network arrangement for digital radar and linking MFD's. The only 2K devices was the small ST70 display and their last MFD, the E Series. These two can be set up to display both 183 and 2K data in graph/history form.

 

Flir then completely changed the product line and as IStream indicates that customised graph/history feature appears to not have been carried forward.

 

Thanks, Jack, I'll look into the Raymarine stuff, may need to get a used one? (I don't know the Raymarine products well.)

 

Back onto my thread drift, I just had a demo of the B&G Triton 2 stuff today. Has real-time plotting of data built-in, even on the menu.

(Presumably if baro data was available it could plot it too.)

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On 4/23/2017 at 4:25 PM, daddle said:

Casio watch with barometer. Write it in the logbook a few times per day. No wires. Zero weight. Almost zero cost. Column of numbers gives a good representation of the trend. Seems to be accurate, although as indicated by others above, slow drift is not a big deal.

I agree. I have a casio pathfinder watch that has a graphing barometer page. It matches the trends of an old style weems and plath barometer on board.  

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On 4/21/2017 at 1:03 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Vendors like B&G have been including digital barometer recording in their electronic packages for a long time now.

 

Other vendors simply haven't bothered. I have always thought that pretty weird particularly for the cruising folk who may or may not have access to proper weather data and rely on what is happening in their space in real time to do their own forecasting. Many of those also only have mid-range stuff like Raymarine etc that don't incorporate a barometer.

 

I came across this pearl sitting in the desert the other day to correct that vendor disconnect for anyone running even proprietary NMEA 2K. They don't do 183 though.

 

http://www.yachtd.com/products/sensors.html

 

They also do a lot of other NMEA 2K interface stuff from engine data down to fridge temps etc.

 

http://www.yachtd.com/products/

Thanks ......... great info I was not aware off ......... only seen the unit for B&G

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My very old second-hand Furuno radar displays a barometer graph.  But I never leave it on long enough for it to accumulate meaningful data.

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How good are the watch barometers?  I'm looking at the new quad sensor Casio Gulfmaster, Garmin Quatix 5, etc. I like the idea of having one on my wrist so I can keep tabs on it regularly and learn to correlate it to weather - inasmuch as we have such a thing here in San Diego...

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