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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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I thought this might be a good idea, to post boats that seem like really good value posted on local sites. Figured it would be easier to keep track than mash it into the Mocking thread. I hope people will post legitimate finds and not try and use this as a sales tool for your own rubbish.

 

I just saw this listed, looks like a good boat at a good price. http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/ESTATE-SALE--1981-CC-34-with-62-head-room_29378719

C&C 34, $22k CAD

New forum won't let me post a link to a picture, WTF?

I'll save it and upload it.

60930596_934.jpg.8cd38d410881bcd4d24e91f53f9bfc3d.jpg

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While there is no image button, I was able to get an image in my post by surrounding the link with  img and /img

inside the  "[" and "]" brackets.

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12 minutes ago, slap said:

While there is no image button, I was able to get an image in my post by surrounding the link with  img and /img

inside the  "[" and "]" brackets.

Oh, goodie. There's progress for you.

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I've been posting pictures by pasting links directly to my message and the forum software magically turns it into an image.

Steve

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29 minutes ago, Panope said:

I've been posting pictures by pasting links directly to my message and the forum software magically turns it into an image.

Steve

Cool. That works way easy.

8La3akk.jpg

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https://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/6129690558.html

 

Here's a cool boat that's practically in my backyard. Looks like an absolute beast. This one was modified to take a masthead rig, and I think it's one of the ones built with Airex foam coring. Been for sale for 5 years now from the same guy. Not sure if that means it's busted up or if he's unwilling to bargain or what, but it's dropped from $9000 to $6500 in that time. It'd absolutely murder anything else on Buzzard's Bay I'm sure.

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On 5/12/2017 at 8:54 PM, d'ranger said:

That's a lot of boat especially since the Yanmar means it's been re-powered since I think they came with Atomic 4s

My 1981 C & C 40 was built with a Yanmar 3QM30...the Atomics were phased out in the late 70's

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12 hours ago, Commercial Boater said:

https://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/6129690558.html

 

Here's a cool boat that's practically in my backyard. Looks like an absolute beast. This one was modified to take a masthead rig, and I think it's one of the ones built with Airex foam coring. Been for sale for 5 years now from the same guy. Not sure if that means it's busted up or if he's unwilling to bargain or what, but it's dropped from $9000 to $6500 in that time. It'd absolutely murder anything else on Buzzard's Bay I'm sure.

Light air flyer, from everything I've heard.

These boats were built with almost every configuration you can think of: fin keel, daggerboard, frac, masthead, flush deck, cabin trunk, etc etc.

FB- Doug

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this one is near to me, cal 2-30 for $4850, good deal. I've always liked these boats. sailed on one a fir bit back home and they always seemed like a boat that was much quicker that one would expect judging from it's looks. 

https://maine.craigslist.org/boa/6124983262.html

 

 

00T0T_8uHZHaDdZDn_600x450.jpg

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10 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

That Cal 2-30 model won a lot of races in the PNW years ago.

correct me if I'm wrong Bob but they're basically a scaled down version of the cal 40 right? 

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On 5/12/2017 at 6:40 PM, Ishmael said:

Oh, goodie. There's progress for you.

The next forum iteration will run on a 5.25" floppy & open with 

dos.jpg

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Not counting the Trash 80, I started with DOS 4.0 on a 286-12 and I had a paper white monitor and 20 GB HD. I was the hero for a while.

 

 

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Buncha youngsters - I started on IBM 1401 and 360's running OS/HASP. B)

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Buncha youngsters - I started on IBM 1401 and 360's running OS/HASP. B)

Took a 360 assembly language class in college.  It taught me how computers really work.

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Not counting the Trash 80, I started with DOS 4.0 on a 286-12 and I had a paper white monitor and 20 GB HD. I was the hero for a while.

In that era, more like a 20 MB drive, not a 20 GB drive?  1000 times smaller!

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11 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

correct me if I'm wrong Bob but they're basically a scaled down version of the cal 40 right? 

Frozen: I would not say that. I think if you check the numbers you'd find the Cal 40 is a leaner boat with an L/B of 3.6 compared to the 2-30's 3.35.

But in a sense you are right considering they are both pure Lapworth and they share the same design philosophy. Nice boats. 

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1 hour ago, ProaSailor said:

In that era, more like a 20 MB drive, not a 20 GB drive?  1000 times smaller!

. . .and 12 MHz was *smoking* fast.  I thought my Leading Edge Model D (8086 plus 8087 math coprocessor, at 7.8 MHz) was fast when I got it. . .

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The mumsy coachroof gives an impression of another slow cruiser. On closer inspection, it's not hard to see why this is a good 'un.  Decent ballast ratio, keel weight down low, and a nice clean run aft without a pinched stern.

From the other side of the Atlantic, the most interesting thing is that Sailboatdata says this in a 1968 design.  It has more in common with a mid-80s European design than the British yachts of the late 1960s.  Even the more innovative French were still launching new designs like the Dufour Safari 27, with skeg and punched stern

 

On 15/5/2017 at 3:03 PM, frozenhawaiian said:

this one is near to me, cal 2-30 for $4850, good deal. I've always liked these boats. sailed on one a fir bit back home and they always seemed like a boat that was much quicker that one would expect judging from it's looks. 

https://maine.craigslist.org/boa/6124983262.html

 

00T0T_8uHZHaDdZDn_600x450.jpg

 

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The 2-30 is a typical CCA type with full ends due to no girth measurements. I could be wrong but I think Lapworth only did one boat with a skeg, Cal 39. All the rest were spade rudders. He was well ahead of his time on that feature. The boats are quite bland looking but I don;t think Lapworth ever drew a pig. He owned Portuguese Water Dogs too!

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39 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

The 2-30 is a typical CCA type with full ends due to no girth measurements.

From this side of the pond, I'm not so familiar with CCA designs.  I tend to think centreboard yawls, but I guess that was a previous era of CCA.

I had assumed that Lapworth's delightfully undistorted hulls were rule-free boats designed on the Bill Lee principle of fast is fun.  Thinking about their race record, that was a silly assumption ... but if that sort of hull was competitive under CCA, it only only makes me weep even more at the way IOR led to such mangled shapes.

The 70s and 80s era was the golden age of boat building, as the combination of GRP hulls, metal masts and synthetic sails allowed even small start-up without highly-skilled workers businesses to create cost-effective series production for the growing middle classes.  The boats of that era are the the ubiquitous fixer-uppers of today, and it's heart-breaking to think of how much better those old boats would be if they had continued down the design path which Lapworth followed :(

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2 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

In that era, more like a 20 MB drive, not a 20 GB drive?  1000 times smaller!

You're right, 20 MB. Long time ago.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Buncha youngsters - I started on IBM 1401 and 360's running OS/HASP. B)

IBM 1620.  And Dartmouth timesharing via a teletype terminal.

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Leggs:

Exactly Bill Lee studied the work of Bill Lapworth, Lapworth was a dinghy racer who brought those ideas of big boats. Lapworth was probably the biggest influence on Bill Lee.

The biggest difference in the CCA boats to the RORC boats of the same era is that the RORC measured "sailing length" by a series of girth measurements in the ends. Simply put, ionger girths indicated longer sailing length and a higher rating. The CCA did not use girths but instead used a DWL just above the flotation DWL. This encouraged short DWL's  and very full ends to gain back volume.  When the IOR came along they used the RORC girth type measurements for "L" and the ends got anemic to keep the rating down.  In short, the RORC controlled the volume in the ends while the CCA did not. Look at the bow of a Cal 40 and note how full it is. Look at the scow type mini's today.

 

I did my best to explain this in depth in two articles I wrote for GOOD OLD BOAT, one on the CCA and one on the IOR. Another very good source for info on those two rules is Peter Johnson's book YACHT RATING. 

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6 hours ago, bmiller said:

Nice little boat. Check out the size of the mooring ball!

Cape Dory Typhoon located in Colorado for sale

 

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/65568

The Alberg Typhoon was our first "real boat." It followed a Sunfish and a POS 15' daysailer. They are good boats, and they seem to have held their value and possibly appreciated over the years.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

$62500!!

"Someone else spent the $" ... and now doesn't want to face the reality that they won't be getting it back

 

 

They'll get most of that for that boat. 

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16 hours ago, sshow bob said:

They'll get most of that for that boat. 

I took a quick look at Yachtworld, boats of that vintage and size are mostly listed between $30K and $40K so I expect they sell closer to $30K, I doubt that this one would go for much more than $40K

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8 hours ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

From the Great White North, shippy looking boat with an ad only really notable because you don't see many of these in freshwater.

 

$_27.JPG

 

8 hours ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

They've been reported plowing the sagebrush in remotest Wyoming. ;) 

roof

Ours came from Lake Michigan.  Good boat for cold, choppy waters -- they were meant for the North Sea and Baltic. 47% ballast ratio, all lead at the bottom of an encapsulated keel. Not everyone's idea of a good time ... but that look still makes my heart go pitty-pat.

5fdac56e-2b65-4a4c-8613-00eee945953a.204

 

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On 5/15/2017 at 10:48 PM, Ishmael said:

Not counting the Trash 80, I started with DOS 4.0 on a 286-12 and I had a paper white monitor and 20 GB HD. I was the hero for a while.

 

 

Commodore VIC-20 with 4k RAM and cassette tape drive. Could make that biotch sit up and beg.  Now my computer is smarter than I am and treats me like the fambly dog. :( 

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13 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Commodore VIC-20 with 4k RAM and cassette tape drive. Could make that biotch sit up and beg.  Now my computer is smarter than I am and treats me like the fambly dog. :( 

I had a TI 99/4A with tape drive. It used to take FOREVER to load a program to memory.

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13 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I had a TI 99/4A with tape drive. It used to take FOREVER to load a program to memory.

I started programming with an Olivetti Programma 101 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programma_101 while I was at high school. You had to save and load your programs on magnetic cards.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, A horse, of course said:

Gosh. Do you understand the shroud attachment thing going on? An adjustable shroud base?

The mast is movable, so the shrouds need to be. I think.

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14 hours ago, Not Me said:

had to drive down the road to check this thing out... pretty neat but crazy impractical

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IACC-Yacht-1-3-scale-America-s-cup-Boat-27-/332203903135?hash=item4d58e5489f:g:1WwAAOSwlndZCOKd&vxp=mtr

oracle.jpg

Sorry, but that thing is just a freaking cool daysailer. Wonder what it would rate for PHRF?

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Perhaps an interesting project for someone to complete. The boat appears to be a Westphal One Design. Sodus is an interesting place with 8 meter activity.

https://rochester.craigslist.org/boa/6118655396.html

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4817

 

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I used to sail and race a little on Biscayne Bay in the 1970s, and I recall that there were a few Westphal 28s. Really nice looking and looked like they were fun to sail.

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One of them was raced by a fellow who must have have skin cancer concerns. He wore white long trousers, a long sleeved white shirt, white gloves, a white face mask, sunglasses, and broad-brimmed hat.

Sailboat data says there were 26 built and:

"A unique feature was a stowable tender that was integrated into the design of the cockpit. It has been reported that a large percentage of the original boats were destroyed during a Florida Hurricane of the 1980's."

westphal_onedesign_drawing.jpg.35ac2835eff8c5410557d9578d700450.jpg

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A lot of them went  on to become rental boats at Dinner Key. I remember seeing several aground outside the channel, almost weekly.

Several were lost in Hurricane Andrew, 1992.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It'd be perfect for bombing around the shallow waters of the Albemarle sound - I'd bet that downwind or on a reach, it's quite lively, too. 

Guy, do you think we get a few Cruising Anarchists to go in it? I'm sure Steamer needs another boat.

BTW, I see you are an admirer of RLS; have you read The adventures of John Carson in several quarters of the world : a novel of Robert Louis Stevenson by Brian Doyle? I just read it an enjoyed it very much.

 

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1 minute ago, Bull City said:

Guy, do you think we get a few Cruising Anarchists to go in it? I'm sure Steamer needs another boat.

BTW, I see you are an admirer of RLS; have you read The adventures of John Carson in several quarters of the world : a novel of Robert Louis Stevenson by Brian Doyle? I just read it an enjoyed it very much.

 

I think we could probably fit 3 in there - and Yes, I have indeed enjoyed that book - it's on my iPad.  
To handle a few more than that - this may be fun: https://easternshore.craigslist.org/boa/6089833310.html

 

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On 5/12/2017 at 8:13 PM, Ishmael said:

I thought this might be a good idea, to post boats that seem like really good value posted on local sites. Figured it would be easier to keep track than mash it into the Mocking thread. I hope people will post legitimate finds and not try and use this as a sales tool for your own rubbish.

 

I just saw this listed, looks like a good boat at a good price. http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/ESTATE-SALE--1981-CC-34-with-62-head-room_29378719

C&C 34, $22k CAD

New forum won't let me post a link to a picture, WTF?

I'll save it and upload it.

60930596_934.jpg.8cd38d410881bcd4d24e91f53f9bfc3d.jpg

Ish, we have just emailed the seller and wonder if you have seen this boat, and if it is really worth flying to BC to look at. We used to live on the island before sailing away many years ago, and would love to relive some of those sailing days.  Unfortunately we have to live at our small farm in Ontario for the present but would sail this in the shoulder seasons.

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Haven't seen it, but I could. It's supposedly on a mooring in Tsehum Harbour, very close to where our boat is. If you want to make the initial arrangements, I'd be happy to give it a look for you.

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On 5/27/2017 at 7:31 AM, usedtobeoldestsailor said:

Ish, we have just emailed the seller and wonder if you have seen this boat, and if it is really worth flying to BC to look at. We used to live on the island before sailing away many years ago, and would love to relive some of those sailing days.  Unfortunately we have to live at our small farm in Ontario for the present but would sail this in the shoulder seasons.

Shit that's a deal. I think that boat used to race a bit in the Vancouver. The place was lousy with them. Well anything that was C&C and Geoff Coleman the dealer, a friend and co-club member

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On 5/15/2017 at 6:21 AM, sail69 said:

My 1981 C & C 40 was built with a Yanmar 3QM30...the Atomics were phased out in the late 70's

Just a question sail69 - was that enough power at 30hp? I'm thinking of repowering.

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2 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Just a question sail69 - was that enough power at 30hp? I'm thinking of repowering.

IMO, 30hp would be barely adequate. That's pretty low-powered, but suitable if fuel economy is a major factor. For ordinary use, I'd suggest 40+ hp. In the past couple years I did a couple thousand miles of offshore deliveries of a mid-80s C&C 41. It had a 4cyl Yanmar of about 40hp that was adequate. I don't remember the model. Getting some parts was problematic.

edit for correction: SailboatData shows the standard engine as a 3HM35F. That was probably it. It was enough power.

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30 minutes ago, RKoch said:

IMO, 30hp would be barely adequate. That's pretty low-powered, but suitable if fuel economy is a major factor. For ordinary use, I'd suggest 40+ hp. In the past couple years I did a couple thousand miles of offshore deliveries of a mid-80s C&C 41. It had a 4cyl Yanmar of about 40hp that was adequate. I don't remember the model. Getting some parts was problematic.

edit for correction: SailboatData shows the standard engine as a 3HM35F. That was probably it. It was enough power.

Thanks for your note. I'm going to a little smaller C&C 40. I just wanted some feedback and it's really local cruising not ocean crossing stuff.

I do appreciate this.

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That's pretty cool bob. Multipurpose craft that can go upstream or to another place to explore at 60MPH.

 

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1 hour ago, sshow bob said:

It took me a while to decide which thread to post this on, but in the end I decided I like this thing.

Freighter Canoe

 

You'd be amazed how seaworthy those Frieghter canoes are, they are pretty much the summer workhorses around Hudson/James Bay in the Canadian Arctic.

8hp is a little underpowered, the 21'ers can take 25hp 2strokes without a problem.

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2 hours ago, sshow bob said:

It took me a while to decide which thread to post this on, but in the end I decided I like this thing.

Freighter Canoe

 

Wow! Just when you think you've got enough boats for various purposes...  That's cool.

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1 hour ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

You'd be amazed how seaworthy those Frieghter canoes are, they are pretty much the summer workhorses around Hudson/James Bay in the Canadian Arctic.

8hp is a little underpowered, the 21'ers can take 25hp 2strokes without a problem.

25HP on a 25' canoe boggles my mind. My little Grumman 17 moves nicely with a couple paddles or a little electric troller. But then again my payload is considerably lighter.

Still my favorite photo of the canoe. Note the little wood motor bracket on the port side.

Sam waiting to get underway.

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On 5/23/2017 at 9:26 AM, Bull City said:

One of them was raced by a fellow who must have have skin cancer concerns. He wore white long trousers, a long sleeved white shirt, white gloves, a white face mask, sunglasses, and broad-brimmed hat.

Sailboat data says there were 26 built and:

"A unique feature was a stowable tender that was integrated into the design of the cockpit. It has been reported that a large percentage of the original boats were destroyed during a Florida Hurricane of the 1980's."

westphal_onedesign_drawing.jpg.35ac2835eff8c5410557d9578d700450.jpg

they had  concrete for ballast in the keel

the adventurer's sailing club bought up a bunch of them in the 70's

one of which punched a hole in my boats hull in the dinner key anchorage

that bronze cap on the bow made a good ram

andrew in 92 got several of them

while my boats survived at anchor in the same area thanks to multi big lines and anchors

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25 minutes ago, bmiller said:

25HP on a 25' canoe boggles my mind. My little Grumman 17 moves nicely with a couple paddles or a little electric troller. But then again my payload is considerably lighter.

Still my favorite photo of the canoe. Note the little wood motor bracket on the port side.

Sam waiting to get underway.

 

Those Hudson's Bay freighter canoes are more like 'Panga's Of The North' than canoes you'd want to paddle.  Or carry a couple fleshed out Caribou or Walrus carcasses in.  Or carry an ATV to a distant beach to plug both.  All on Arctic ocean waters where this is "summer".

 

cruisingalongR.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

 

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2 hours ago, bmiller said:

Looks to be about a 67-68?

 

I owned a 72 back in the day..

That would be my guess.

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