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Hand starting - an ancient but apparently brand new Yanmar.

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11 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I wonder what the chain is for?

 

For that little shaft on top, of course!

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Nope - that was a factory setup. Some Yannies came without electrics in those days and hand starting was the only way.

That looks like a horizontal cylinder YSE - I had the same thing but a YSM which was just a MK III kind of thing. Still had a hand crank option but it was on the crank snout, not off a reduction setup like that.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Nope - that was a factory setup. Some Yannies came without electrics in those days and hand starting was the only way.

That looks like a horizontal cylinder YSE - I had the same thing but a YSM which was just a MK III kind of thing. Still had a hand crank option but it was on the crank snout, not off a reduction setup like that.

I saw one of those in a Cape Dory 27. Starting it looked like a dangerous idea. But it had an electric starter too.

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The crank setup was a sort of angled tooth ratchet or dog - it only turned one way. Once the engine caught the handle was released - almost ejected.

As long as you had good knuckle clearance to crank it over it was no problem.

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Sloop, that's a nice boat and the price is right. You could finish it and install a shotgun shell starter. :)

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On 1/19/2018 at 6:20 PM, Uncooperative Tom said:

I wonder what the chain is for?

00e0e_93gpFPh2CAk_1200x900.jpg

Mangling :)

Loved hand cranks: venerable old Massey Ferg’ tractor that would start any time, every time. Also had a Morris Minor that was a dream to crank when the mice in the starter motor were too cold. Wish my MGs had them.

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3 hours ago, lasal said:

Sloop, that's a nice boat and the price is right. You could finish it and install a shotgun shell starter. :)

Call her Phoenix

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The crank setup was a sort of angled tooth ratchet or dog - it only turned one way. Once the engine caught the handle was released - almost ejected.

As long as you had good knuckle clearance to crank it over it was no problem.

The one I saw didn't appear to have much clearance and I wasn't so sure about that "it'll let go" feature.

I guess I could get used to it. The planes we used to tow banners at Aerial Sign Co had no electrical systems for the most part so we hand-propped them. At the time, the lack of an electrical system meant exemption from the radar transponder requirement.

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13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

8' beam and water ballast - on a cat?

It's a very funky looking boat and sails really well.

v4U9ZAN.jpg

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

8' beam and water ballast - on a cat?

8.5 is the max width without an over-width permit in many states.

That used to be a bigger deal than it needs to be today. I think in FL it's up to 10 feet that you can just go online and get a permit and it's quick and easy. Above that there are more rules.

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That’s an awesome find.  I had a very good long look at Mr Browns GC32 in Victoria, for the 2017 R2AK, and it’s a very cool design, ticks many of the multihull sailors boxes.  

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18 minutes ago, Keith said:

That’s an awesome find.  I had a very good long look at Mr Browns GC32 in Victoria, for the 2017 R2AK, and it’s a very cool design, ticks many of the multihull sailors boxes.  

Everyone needs to read the R2AK2017 thread to find all the relevant gems.

 

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The G32 is legendary. Self righting, trailerable, and yes, you need the water ballast to give it enough righting moment in any sort of wind.

My kid doesn't need all her education fund surely? She can flip burgers dammit.

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2 hours ago, bmiller said:

IIRC the Seafarers were Phil Rhodes designs...... or at least, his office....... and built in Holland. A good friend of ours has a Seafarer 29 which is a very nice boat, sails well (not a rocket) good-looking and well built too.

You could do a lot worse.

FB- Doug

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My kid is amusing. When I started thinking seriously about buying the G32 she quickly wrote up this contract for me to sign (she is 16). She's the Sane One and my wife is "The Enabler", somehow referring to our boat purchases.

 

"The purpose of this contract states that I, Evan  Gatehouse, (hereafter known within the bounds of this contract as ‘The Scrooge’) will not become excessively agitated in the event of the purchase of a SAILBOAT. Signs of excessive agitation include, (but are not limited to, and may be determined by Maia  Selkirk, (hereafter known within the bounds of this contract as ‘The Sane One’) in the event of the signs not being expressly stated below.)

·         Worrying about money in the event that the family goes out for dinner.

·         The Scrooge flinging his arms about in the event that the Sane One or Diane Selkirk, (hereafter known within the bounds of this contract as ‘The Enabler’) purchases shoes, clothing, or seasonal gear UNDER the limit of $100. A purchase exceeding $100 dollars may be debated.

·         The Scrooge generally shrieking about money issues in earshot of the Sane One, because she worries about money too, but not to the unreasonable extent that the Scrooge does.

·         The Scrooge agreeing to the purchase of a LIGHTSABRE with the check from the Sane One’s car accident settlement, to the tune of $100. 

 

The Scrooge                                               The Sane One

_________________________               ____________________________     

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That's similar to this relic sitting at city dock. Wondered about that mast-like stump.

XE4oUxzMXpNgEAaUIlSfrTnuUGvPruYneeIvwAo4

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On 1/18/2018 at 9:06 PM, Mid said:

some build 'em , some sail 'em

 

very few do both .

Can I frame this as a sign for my office? 

On 1/18/2018 at 8:48 PM, Ishmael said:

Looks like very nice construction, but you really have to want an Atkins Eric to even think about it. Brand new old stock 1930 boat. I'm past that stage of my life.

I honestly considered this boat for a bit, even tried to contact the seller with no answer.  But then I smartened up and realized a narrow 26' boat was not something I needed.  I like the idea of a new never launched wood boat though, as long as the motor is still in good order.

 

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/d/loaded-for-bluewater-cruising/6466052701.html

 

Luders 39, strange looking keel, but a pretty boat  Anyone have any idea how well that would work with the big hole in the middle?  She has been skinned with epoxy/Dynel in the 90s, no inspection or repair to the bottom since though...

They've dropped price to 20, 000$. 

 

00Q0Q_kgnAqCm6RO9_1200x900.jpg

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2 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Can I frame this as a sign for my office? 

I can not claim to be the author .

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5 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Can I frame this as a sign for my office? 

I honestly considered this boat for a bit, even tried to contact the seller with no answer.  But then I smartened up and realized a narrow 26' boat was not something I needed.  I like the idea of a new never launched wood boat though, as long as the motor is still in good order.

 

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/d/loaded-for-bluewater-cruising/6466052701.html

 

Luders 39, strange looking keel, but a pretty boat  Anyone have any idea how well that would work with the big hole in the middle?  She has been skinned with epoxy/Dynel in the 90s, no inspection or repair to the bottom since though...

They've dropped price to 20, 000$. 

 

00Q0Q_kgnAqCm6RO9_1200x900.jpg

 

Keels of that type, though maybe not that particular one, work well enough in tank that they were tried in America's Cup yachts. LIke most wings and other fancy keel ideas, they probably only make sense when a fin keel isn't considered desirable. Whether that particular one lives up to the potential of the type, who knows?

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That pile of trash & tools under it gives a pretty good idea of the workmanship that has gone into it.

Funny, there's almost exactly the same pile of stuff under a wood powerboat that is being refit by it's owner in my yard, and I have watched some of the things being done to it with a bit of concern.  It's led to a few breakups too, I wonder if the boat is the reason for the divorce mentioned in the ad? 

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1 hour ago, jgbrown said:

Funny, there's almost exactly the same pile of stuff under a wood powerboat that is being refit by it's owner in my yard, and I have watched some of the things being done to it with a bit of concern.  It's led to a few breakups too, I wonder if the boat is the reason for the divorce mentioned in the ad? 

If there is an unfinished boat anywhere in a divorce then it is at least a big part of the reason. :D

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13 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Can I frame this as a sign for my office? 

I honestly considered this boat for a bit, even tried to contact the seller with no answer.  But then I smartened up and realized a narrow 26' boat was not something I needed.  I like the idea of a new never launched wood boat though, as long as the motor is still in good order.

 

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/d/loaded-for-bluewater-cruising/6466052701.html

 

Luders 39, strange looking keel, but a pretty boat  Anyone have any idea how well that would work with the big hole in the middle?  She has been skinned with epoxy/Dynel in the 90s, no inspection or repair to the bottom since though...

They've dropped price to 20, 000$. 

 

00Q0Q_kgnAqCm6RO9_1200x900.jpg

Mmmmm, Pacific milk run anyone?

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Sailed a Harmony 47 with a keel kind of like that in the BVI. Had a spade rudder though.

Worked fine - we didn't even realize it had an unconventional keel until we went diving.

Didn't seem to make any difference one way or the other so why bother?

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Sailed a Harmony 47 with a keel kind of like that in the BVI. Had a spade rudder though.

Worked fine - we didn't even realize it had an unconventional keel until we went diving.

Didn't seem to make any difference one way or the other so why bother?

For this style of boat I guess it's more about draft and maneuverability. Wonder if it's original? In 1959 the keel designer was 11.

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Same guy apparently designed the "UNIVERSAL HULL" supposedly combining a skinny efficient underbody with high volume topsides.

Quirky.

From Wiki....

"After leaving university, Collins became a yacht designer and invented and patented the tandem keel, which was conceived to create high performance at low draft, but which also remains one of the radical keels in the America's Cup. He continued his interest in yacht design with an innovation in hull design called the Universal Hull. This fused together two classic hull types (the long, thin, easily driven hull and the beamy commodious hull) in a form which yielded the chief virtues of both types of hull. The two hulls are joined above the waterline by a ledge which also acts as a spray ledge. The resulting shape is easily driven because of the long, thin underwater shape but enjoys the accommodation space (above the waterline) of a beamy hull."

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Sailed a Harmony 47 with a keel kind of like that in the BVI. Had a spade rudder though.

Worked fine - we didn't even realize it had an unconventional keel until we went diving.

Didn't seem to make any difference one way or the other so why bother?

Presuming it had reduced draft your observations would seem a positive review Jon.

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1 hour ago, paps49 said:

Presuming it had reduced draft your observations would seem a positive review Jon.

It wasn't particularly shallow draft. I'd guess it was about 6'

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

00i0i_7xcDFq4lXOp_1200x900.jpg

Hmmmmmmmmm.

It's pre-configured for kin-tiki style. The price $1000 or best offer sounds reasonable, but still, this is mocking territory if but for the bungee cords to the wheel before you even get to the S&M motor mount.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:

It's pre-configured for kin-tiki style. The price $1000 or best offer sounds reasonable, but still, this is mocking territory if but for the bungee cords to the wheel before you even get to the S&M motor mount.

I'm curious how they broke the engine mount( and I am skeptical that they managed to haul it up and tie it on board before it hit the water) after they hit whatever.  But still, for a thousand bucks, if they really did the bulkhead tabbing and mast step replacement well, and the new chainplates included are of decent quality then seems like a very good price for around here.  

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3 minutes ago, jgbrown said:

I'm curious how they broke the engine mount( and I am skeptical that they managed to haul it up and tie it on board before it hit the water) after they hit whatever.  But still, for a thousand bucks, if they really did the bulkhead tabbing and mast step replacement well, and the new chainplates included are of decent quality then seems like a very good price for around here.  

Me too. They don't just fall off a bracket. They don't even if you run aground at high speed. Repeatedly. I don't know what you have to do to get this to happen.

00v0v_k47lyGkx1XQ_1200x900.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Me too. They don't just fall off a bracket. They don't even if you run aground at high speed. Repeatedly. I don't know what you have to do to get this to happen.

00v0v_k47lyGkx1XQ_1200x900.jpg

actually looking at it again in that photo, I wonder if someone else ran into it coming along between slips since all the damage looks to be on the same side if you rotated the bottom back into position.  I never cease to be amazed at the things people can run into and how fast they do it. 

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If you're interested check it out. The bungie cords and psycho lashings are not a good sign, but it could be an good project. It will take a haul out and blocking to find out and start fixing, so budget for that and for trashing it if it's too far gone.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:
1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

00i0i_7xcDFq4lXOp_1200x900.jpg

Hmmmmmmmmm.

It's pre-configured for kin-tiki style. The price $1000 or best offer sounds reasonable, but still, this is mocking territory if but for the bungee cords to the wheel before you even get to the S&M motor mount.

I figure it's a liveaboard, and the condition of that cockpit when you live on a boat is an indication of what the interior may be like. There's a reason most of the pix are old.

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10 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I figure it's a liveaboard, and the condition of that cockpit when you live on a boat is an indication of what the interior may be like. There's a reason most of the pix are old.

I was thinking maybe a family member or friend was helping a relative who wasn't able to deal with the boat and figured the outboard hanging in the water should be hung up above water somehow. The algae shows abandonment so only having a look will do! Take cash and an escape plan.

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28 minutes ago, lasal said:

I was thinking maybe a family member or friend was helping a relative who wasn't able to deal with the boat and figured the outboard hanging in the water should be hung up above water somehow. The algae shows abandonment so only having a look will do! Take cash, a friend, and an escape plan.

And pay for it in the parking lot of the local cop shop.

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8 hours ago, jgbrown said:

actually looking at it again in that photo, I wonder if someone else ran into it coming along between slips since all the damage looks to be on the same side if you rotated the bottom back into position.  I never cease to be amazed at the things people can run into and how fast they do it. 

Yeah if that motor were tilted and another boat hit it, the damage would probably look a lot like the photo.

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On 2/23/2018 at 7:47 PM, paps49 said:

Mmmmm, Pacific milk run anyone?

Seems to have been sold, all sales links have disappeared.

Some lucky bugger got a hell of a boat for $20k! This one really grabbed me so I did some digging. Designed by an engineer with 25 years sailing experience for family cruising and built by Luders in '56. Very early cold molded Mahogany with SS ring frames. Possibly the first tandem keel built.  Some links below to the Sports Illustrated article.

 

 https://www.si.com/vault/1957/01/21/599191/sailors-dream

https://www.si.com/vault/issue/42493/33/1

caprice-pdf.pdf

luders 39.jpg

Edited by paps49
image added

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4 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Seems to have been sold, all sales links have disappeared.

Some lucky bugger got a hell of a boat for $20k! This one really grabbed me so I did some digging. Designed by an engineer with 25 years sailing experience for family cruising and built by Luders in '56. Very early cold molded Mahogany with SS ring frames. Possibly the first tandem keel built.  Some links below to the Sports Illustrated article.

 

 https://www.si.com/vault/1957/01/21/599191/sailors-dream

https://www.si.com/vault/issue/42493/33/1

caprice-pdf.pdf

I think so too, someone asked me for more info and I contacted the seller with no reply.

The only thing that made me skittish about it is that according to the current owners is that it was sheathed with Dynel/epoxy in the early 90s.  When asked for details the seller said the bilge was still bare wood, and that they always kept it wet, then went on to note that it naturally stayed wet anyways, but no inspection had been done since then other than some small repairs.  They also said they had a big roll of the Dynel on board for repairs.  When I asked if they would be comfortable with a potential buyer having a couple fasteners pulled to check(and the grind off/re glassing and filling/fairing/paint at buyers expense (really not hard on a 4" patch max) they said there was no way they would consider any sampling of the hull/fasteners.  37 year after sheathing, I would like to see what condition the underlying wood/fasteners were in before buying.  Then I found out the boat was in Mexico, not Canada where it was posted.

The links you posted note a boat with two cabins, and two heads.  The one for sale was a single head where the V-berth would be, one quarter berth, and a convertible dinette.  I wonder if it was later converted or if there is more than one out there?

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3 hours ago, jgbrown said:

I think so too, someone asked me for more info and I contacted the seller with no reply.

The only thing that made me skittish about it is that according to the current owners is that it was sheathed with Dynel/epoxy in the early 90s.  When asked for details the seller said the bilge was still bare wood, and that they always kept it wet, then went on to note that it naturally stayed wet anyways, but no inspection had been done since then other than some small repairs.  They also said they had a big roll of the Dynel on board for repairs.  When I asked if they would be comfortable with a potential buyer having a couple fasteners pulled to check(and the grind off/re glassing and filling/fairing/paint at buyers expense (really not hard on a 4" patch max) they said there was no way they would consider any sampling of the hull/fasteners.  37 year after sheathing, I would like to see what condition the underlying wood/fasteners were in before buying.  Then I found out the boat was in Mexico, not Canada where it was posted.

The links you posted note a boat with two cabins, and two heads.  The one for sale was a single head where the V-berth would be, one quarter berth, and a convertible dinette.  I wonder if it was later converted or if there is more than one out there?

Yeah, interesting.

It was modified by the previous owner, he put a workshop in the aft cabin but left the bunks underneath.

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I don't think there are any fastenings to inspect as its cold molded and glued.

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3 hours ago, paps49 said:

I don't think there are any fastenings to inspect as its cold molded and glued.

maybe he's thinking of the 20,000 brass screws they brag about in the construction?

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3 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

maybe he's thinking of the 20,000 brass screws they brag about in the construction?

Correct.  If the bilges were dry, and kept dry I would not think anything of it. But that was the first time an owner of a cold moulded boat told me that they kept the wood wet, and that it keeps itself wet because otherwise it would move and dry out and leak more.  The couple of them that I have met were fanatical about dry bilges.  But salt water saturation and glass on one side for 30 years... I would like to see the condition of them, specifically the condition of the wood layer closest to the dynel.  More modern cold molding with epoxy in between has some advantages that way and I might suspect that even if the innermost surface was saturated, the rest might still be OK).  I wanted to see a few of those fasteners, and to see how well the dynel was still bonded to the wood.  Rot in a boat with that style of construction would be unpleasant to fix to put it mildly, and corrosion of brass in wood that was saturated with trapped salt water might be exciting    They did say that several fasteners were pulled during the sheathing and inspected so they must be accessible with the Dynel off.  Sounds like they're totally ok according to the sellers, but a day of checking and repairing the checked areas plus the cost of haul out is money well spent. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

maybe he's thinking of the 20,000 brass screws they brag about in the construction?

True but none in the outside layer, nailed and then the nails removed. Anyway it's nice to dream, I just hope whoever bought it knows what a special boat she is. The Canadian couples heart was in the right place but were novices I suspect.

 

 

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20 hours ago, paps49 said:

True but none in the outside layer, nailed and then the nails removed. Anyway it's nice to dream, I just hope whoever bought it knows what a special boat she is. The Canadian couples heart was in the right place but were novices I suspect

Interesting, from the description they sent me when I asked, it really sounded like a traditionally fastened hull sheathed in Dynel.  They specifically referenced fasteners were removed and checked before the sheathing, and specifically mentioned keeping the bilges wet(and pickling them) so that the wood didn't dry out and move.  Which all makes it sound much more like a sheathed wood boat than something built originally as described in the magazine article you posted, I think they would have had a lot more interest with that article.    I wonder if that was part of the challenge in selling it, if I wasn't the only one who took their explanation that way.   They did mention several thousand miles and a long time cruising but that they were returning to work. 

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1 hour ago, jgbrown said:

Interesting, from the description they sent me when I asked, it really sounded like a traditionally fastened hull sheathed in Dynel.  They specifically referenced fasteners were removed and checked before the sheathing, and specifically mentioned keeping the bilges wet(and pickling them) so that the wood didn't dry out and move.  Which all makes it sound much more like a sheathed wood boat than something built originally as described in the magazine article you posted, I think they would have had a lot more interest with that article.    I wonder if that was part of the challenge in selling it, if I wasn't the only one who took their explanation that way.   They did mention several thousand miles and a long time cruising but that they were returning to work. 

What?  Sailors that ran out of money?  Inconceivable!

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5 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Interesting, from the description they sent me when I asked, it really sounded like a traditionally fastened hull sheathed in Dynel.  They specifically referenced fasteners were removed and checked before the sheathing, and specifically mentioned keeping the bilges wet(and pickling them) so that the wood didn't dry out and move.  Which all makes it sound much more like a sheathed wood boat than something built originally as described in the magazine article you posted, I think they would have had a lot more interest with that article.    I wonder if that was part of the challenge in selling it, if I wasn't the only one who took their explanation that way.   They did mention several thousand miles and a long time cruising but that they were returning to work. 

Five years from now I would have bought it in a heartbeat, oh well....

Yes they bought it in WA and then sailed south to Mexico briefly before returning to San Diego. I think the trip back home was a bit daunting for them. Funny thing is they referred to the magazine article and said there was a copy of the magazine onboard sealed in plastic! Maybe they never bothered to unwrap and read it!

 

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23 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

What a homely little tiller.

s-l1600.jpg

As a bonus it comes with a 12" plodder.  

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I wonder what went on in that berth.

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Well here's a nice little something

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/boa/d/free-21-sailboat/6516855819.html

Of course it's not as nice as the pics

Free 21' sailboat (Washington sailing Marina)

00A0A_5QX77Gc9NER_600x450.jpg

AMF 2100 with trailer, been racing within a few years, ought to be in not-too-horrible shape. These are OK boats, sail decently and not expensive to keep

FB- Doug

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That AMF would do well as a beer can killer. Rates well and fun to sail. A local Olympic sailor bought one from our esteemed rule beater before I knew about it...

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The AMF 21 that was in my driveway for a while (and got nominated for Admiration by the Society) is now being actively raced by some of the kids from the sailing center. So it's more Admirable than it was, but still ugly.

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3 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The AMF 21 that was in my driveway for a while (and got nominated for Admiration by the Society) is now being actively raced by some of the kids from the sailing center. So it's more Admirable than it was, but still ugly.

It's a Ted Hood design..... or at least, from his office........ it is kind of an ugly duckling, however much one likes flush decks (and I love flush decks). I've never sailed one myself but I've sailed in company with them a couple of times, they do OK. The lifting keel takes up far too much room below, but that's a worth while sacrifice IMHO.

Somebody in the area is sitting around wishing they could afford a nice sailboat. I hope they find this one.

FB- Doug

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Always reminded me of a mini Pearson Flyer - I like them and don't think they are ugly.

They do need a contrasting stripe through those hull ports though.

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On 1/27/2018 at 2:33 PM, Steam Flyer said:

IIRC the Seafarers were Phil Rhodes designs...... or at least, his office....... and built in Holland. A good friend of ours has a Seafarer 29 which is a very nice boat, sails well (not a rocket) good-looking and well built too.

You could do a lot worse.

FB- Doug

The early seafarers (though 1969?) were built in Holland.   The later ones, like this, were built in Huntington, NY.  I watched my fathers 24' (first keel model based on keel centerboard) built there.  McCurdy & Rhodes design.   Needed more draft and ballast but otherwise OK but built with pressboard bulkheads with faux wood sticky back paper.  Geez.  

Like this it too was pretty. The traditional deck one was pretty...the "Futura" decks were ugly.

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11 hours ago, chester said:

can't say that i've ever seen a "front chine" before.

I think I'd call it a spray rail if I were looking at a powerboat. So maybe it's a spray rail.

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18 hours ago, paps49 said:

Well, it's better looking than the similar things that Reinell built back in the 70's.

I think that's about it though.

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