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25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's not a "Classic wooden boat", it's a West built Peterson One Tonner built by probably the best yard around here - Jespersons.

The only ongoing expense over a similar glass boat would be the varnish.

You could probably offset that somewhat by buying stock in your chosen varnish company. :D

Do they sell varnish in 5 gallon pails or 45 gallon drums?

My wife wants to go check it out so I might be doomed.

Do it!

I will come visit, and praise your work

And yes, that is a classic.... design by one of the all-time greats, built by one of the best builders, looks that are totally reminiscent of her era. It's not a Herrshoff S-boat or a schooner, but it's still deserving to be called a classic IMHO

FB- Doug

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It's 40-45 years old. I think that qualifies as 'classic' no matter the material or method of construction.  Worth saving, by someone who can afford to.  Btw, when WoodenBoat was started in the 70s, some of the wooden classics being saved were only 20 years old...

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's not a "Classic wooden boat", it's a West built Peterson One Tonner built by probably the best yard around here - Jespersons.

The only ongoing expense over a similar glass boat would be the varnish.

You could probably offset that somewhat by buying stock in your chosen varnish company. :D

Do they sell varnish in 5 gallon pails or 45 gallon drums?

My wife wants to go check it out so I might be doomed.

You lucky man - if no more than in the matter of your wife having chosen you! Good luck. 

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Ah. A strong woman who loves boats. SJB, you are a fortunate man indeed.

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BTW, Mrs. Sail4 beer must be an outstanding woman (a saint, perhaps). Maybe Mr. S4B could fill us in... in an appropriate way

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's not a "Classic wooden boat", it's a West built Peterson One Tonner built by probably the best yard around here - Jespersons.

The only ongoing expense over a similar glass boat would be the varnish.

You could probably offset that somewhat by buying stock in your chosen varnish company. :D

Do they sell varnish in 5 gallon pails or 45 gallon drums?

My wife wants to go check it out so I might be doomed.

Due to VOC regs, only the crap stuff seems to be available in larger sizes.  When I asked to buy a 5Ga to split out into cans that was the reason I was given why all the better varnishes are not available, it fell under the threshold.    But if a grand a year was the only difference(other than free labour) I wouldn't be too fussed.  I actually enjoy sanding and varnishing.  I have never dealt with a cold moulded hull other than to drool over them, is there really no significant cost difference other than the base material expenses in repairs vs poly+glass?  Since it was a race boat, would it need a larger crew to sail comfortably?   I am likely to be single(or now double handing more likely). 

At half the price I would be tempted for sure, I could do that with enough left for transport, and a few grand for refinishing. 

 

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Considering that it was something like $85K when I saw it in nice shape I thought a $14K ask was not unreasonable.

Sounds like it needs a new engine but Pathfinders are cheap to build I understand - VW not "marine" prices.

If it was a 1/2 Tonner I'd be on it like a rash but it's a pretty big boat. Just moorage would push $10K pretty hard here.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Considering that it was something like $85K when I saw it in nice shape I thought a $14K ask was not unreasonable.

Sounds like it needs a new engine but Pathfinders are cheap to build I understand - VW not "marine" prices.

If it was a 1/2 Tonner I'd be on it like a rash but it's a pretty big boat. Just moorage would push $10K pretty hard here.

Keep it on a mooring in Comox. Cheap.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's not a "Classic wooden boat", it's a West built Peterson One Tonner built by probably the best yard around here - Jespersons.

The only ongoing expense over a similar glass boat would be the varnish.

You could probably offset that somewhat by buying stock in your chosen varnish company. :D

Do they sell varnish in 5 gallon pails or 45 gallon drums?

My wife wants to go check it out so I might be doomed. 

The pails are a lot easier to deal with. Get a good sprayer. By which I mean someone like Gouv, not a piece of equipment.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Considering that it was something like $85K when I saw it in nice shape I thought a $14K ask was not unreasonable.

Sounds like it needs a new engine but Pathfinders are cheap to build I understand - VW not "marine" prices.

If it was a 1/2 Tonner I'd be on it like a rash but it's a pretty big boat. Just moorage would push $10K pretty hard here.

Did you hear anything from the owner?  I emailed them, 36' is my ideal size.  I'd love a chance to refinish a boat like that.

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:
11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Considering that it was something like $85K when I saw it in nice shape I thought a $14K ask was not unreasonable.

Sounds like it needs a new engine but Pathfinders are cheap to build I understand - VW not "marine" prices.

If it was a 1/2 Tonner I'd be on it like a rash but it's a pretty big boat. Just moorage would push $10K pretty hard here.

Keep it on a mooring in Comox. Cheap.

Hmm -mmmm hmmm.... hey do you all hear music playing in the background?

A 1 Tonner is not a cheap hobby. But it's a gorgeous boat and a piece of history. Picture yourself sailing it, and then ..... aww there's that music again

FB- Doug

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On 4/29/2018 at 9:17 PM, Ishmael said:

Every white male over 70 looks either like Rimas, Harvey Weinberg, or Yoda. Anything else is makeup.

I resemble that remark!

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9 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Did you hear anything from the owner?  I emailed them, 36' is my ideal size.  I'd love a chance to refinish a boat like that.

For various reasons I haven't tried to contact them yet.

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I've know lots who don't like their Pathfinder diesels though Rasp liked his  It was a diesel Rabbit engine that was only slightly detuned for marine use. In other words it was stressed a bit. "Hard to start" on a diesel is a bad symptom. So budget $10K for a new engine.

A lot also depends on the conditions of the sails. If near end of life, a new main + genoa will be ~$5K. Each.

Jespersen boats are the Hinkley of west coast wood boat builders. Excellent reputation.

Cold moulded hulls tend to last quite well. But decks and cockpits are like any wooden boat. Lots of little seams for water to get into. That's where I'd start looking for rot.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

For various reasons I haven't tried to contact them yet.

Ah Ok.  Too bad they don't have a phone # in the ad.  If they get back to me and I go check it out I'll try to get some decent pictures while I'm looking.  I actually loved my diesel Golf(NA, 50ish HP and 110KPH downhill with a tailwind), great fuel economy and fun to drive though.  I have a friend who still collects bits for diesel VWs so I would be able to pick up a spare short block on the cheap, so as long as the marine components are still decent, that actually would be an alright motor for me.  I figure the engine is the least of the things that would worry me.   Rot being the biggest concern. 

Since the mast, boom etc was done I'm curious to see if it has sails as well. 

 

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Aside from some teak decking needing replacement, the coamings and other mahogany are probably in good condition. I can see an area or 2 on the coamings which could use a little epoxy bonding, but a survey would really help determine how great that hull still is!

Of course if it were East Coast, I would drive right up and check it out. It’s a unique build and that gets me drooling..

The hundreds of hours required to restore the cosmetics may seem daunting to some, but notJB, and he has the skills and the time. 

Mrs. BeerAKA Sangria Girl is definitely not an avid boater by any means but she understands my addiction to boats. She got a nice little Herreshoff out of the deal on the process-lucky lady! My dream was always to own a small shop and work at my own pace and level of perfection. She knew I dreamed of one day owning a small boat to enjoy the summer evenings. I mean 18’ small, which was big dream for me 15 years ago. When I told her I was going to open a boat shop, she was confused as to why I would want to get out of home contracting. I explained the lack of mental challenges and that I feel that boat work is art and construction together and could be more profitable than what I was doing. 

Fast forward to now and I have too many boats and she just shakes her head. I had to close the shop last year to work on my storm damaged home and am at the point of siding and sheetrocking. That means 2 months left until I get a CO and I’m opening another shop- bogger but in an area away from where the strays live. By strays, I mean the many people that will come to my shop to hang out for hours on end and interrupt my concentration and progress. I never show up to anyone else’s job site when they are working. Cost me a lot of “friends”. Can’t seem to keep them away even if you lock the doors...

That’s the part of what I do that irritates my wife. But I don’t have more than $700 personal debt right now, so she understands that I want to get back to what I love to do. I still work on my boats as you guys know, and they keep me out of the bars!

Somebody buy that damned boat!!!

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Rain is your enemy, and boats like fish rot from the head. I read a terrifying account of the restoration of a really handsome S&S cold moulded boat - Golden Fleece I think it was - where rainwater had badly rotted the laminate. It was much harder to fix than a planked boat. The owner took his medicine and spent a sizeable fortune on fixing her. 

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I think the problem with the Pathfinder is a 50 HP car engine doesn't translate well to a 42 HP boat engine. In a car, on the highway, the little diesel is probably turning 2500-2700 RPM and redline is 5000. In other words it's only making 10 or 15 HP continuously for hours.

On a boat, the same engine can be running at 80-85% of maximum for hours at time. The engine simply wasn't designed for that sort of continuous load. Thus the overheating issues.

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A Peterson Ganbare type One Tonner is only around 12K - 14K Lbs.

A Pathfinder should be lots.

When I first started sailing 2 HP per ton of disp was regarded as the norm and 3 to 4 HP was regarded as generous.

45 HP in a 36' was regarded as motorsailer territory.

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The Islander Freeport 36 that I have sailed on is powered by a Pathfinder and it's not an issue. (it's a Bob Perry design btw), don't remember the displacement but is heavier than the Peterson. 

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Freeport is 17K Lbs.

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On 5/31/2018 at 11:00 AM, Sail4beer said:

Aside from some teak decking needing replacement, the coamings and other mahogany are probably in good condition. I can see an area or 2 on the coamings which could use a little epoxy bonding, but a survey would really help determine how great that hull still is!

Of course if it were East Coast, I would drive right up and check it out. It’s a unique build and that gets me drooling..

The hundreds of hours required to restore the cosmetics may seem daunting to some, but notJB, and he has the skills and the time. 

Mrs. BeerAKA Sangria Girl is definitely not an avid boater by any means but she understands my addiction to boats. She got a nice little Herreshoff out of the deal on the process-lucky lady! My dream was always to own a small shop and work at my own pace and level of perfection. She knew I dreamed of one day owning a small boat to enjoy the summer evenings. I mean 18’ small, which was big dream for me 15 years ago. When I told her I was going to open a boat shop, she was confused as to why I would want to get out of home contracting. I explained the lack of mental challenges and that I feel that boat work is art and construction together and could be more profitable than what I was doing. 

Fast forward to now and I have too many boats and she just shakes her head. I had to close the shop last year to work on my storm damaged home and am at the point of siding and sheetrocking. That means 2 months left until I get a CO and I’m opening another shop- bogger but in an area away from where the strays live. By strays, I mean the many people that will come to my shop to hang out for hours on end and interrupt my concentration and progress. I never show up to anyone else’s job site when they are working. Cost me a lot of “friends”. Can’t seem to keep them away even if you lock the doors...

That’s the part of what I do that irritates my wife. But I don’t have more than $700 personal debt right now, so she understands that I want to get back to what I love to do. I still work on my boats as you guys know, and they keep me out of the bars!

Somebody buy that damned boat!!!

I'm going to look next week it looks like, owner got in touch. 

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Congratulations and don’t get too excited until you get a survey to positively back up what you want to own. After that, get the fuck to work already! I want some West Coast brightwork pronto in the next year. Don’t forget to keep your business and income first. I’ve known plenty of people(me) that lose sight of long term goals for a beautiful PROJECT boat!!!

John Sloop B will want a ride 

Did you ever show us any tits by the way?

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On 5/31/2018 at 5:07 PM, Zonker said:

I think the problem with the Pathfinder is a 50 HP car engine doesn't translate well to a 42 HP boat engine. In a car, on the highway, the little diesel is probably turning 2500-2700 RPM and redline is 5000. In other words it's only making 10 or 15 HP continuously for hours.

On a boat, the same engine can be running at 80-85% of maximum for hours at time. The engine simply wasn't designed for that sort of continuous load. Thus the overheating issues.

Marine gas engines are designed to take the load. Pushing a powerboat through the water is like driving a truck up a steep mountain constantly without a break. I have a marinized GM block that makes a constant high HP under load. The block was built for Corvettes and heavy duty trucks from 1969-1979. I wouldn’t expect a marinized deisel to perform as well since it works on compression instead of combustion. The pathfinder block was already built to it’s maximum design load as a car motor.

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6 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Congratulations and don’t get too excited until you get a survey to positively back up what you want to own. After that, get the fuck to work already! I want some West Coast brightwork pronto in the next year. Don’t forget to keep your business and income first. I’ve known plenty of people(me) that lose sight of long term goals for a beautiful PROJECT boat!!!

John Sloop B will want a ride 

Did you ever show us any tits by the way?

The only area in which I disagree re: your post about boat shops(why do they leave strays here was genius, I have a guy who's wife literally drops him off like it was daycare when she goes to get her hair cut...) was the more profitable part vs construction. 

I trust surveyors as far as I can throw them for testing beyond covering the insurance companies ass.  I am digging through my old files for a wood/cold molded boat guy I used to know and I'd rather have him assess the hull if it looks worth further inquiry first.    I will be open to anyone coming on board whatever boat I end up with who can teach me to sail properly, lol. 

I have not.  I have not had an option to do so for quite a while :p  I will ask and let you know.  By coincidence I started dating an amazing woman last week who loves boats and wants to work on whatever boat I get with me.  She's smart, beautiful and can definitely kick my ass(She's an ironworker who build steel frames for dams), so I won't be posting anything of the sort without asking first, lol. 

 

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2 hours ago, jgbrown said:

The only area in which I disagree re: your post about boat shops(why do they leave strays here was genius, I have a guy who's wife literally drops him off like it was daycare when she goes to get her hair cut...) was the more profitable part vs construction. 

I trust surveyors as far as I can throw them for testing beyond covering the insurance companies ass.  I am digging through my old files for a wood/cold molded boat guy I used to know and I'd rather have him assess the hull if it looks worth further inquiry first.    I will be open to anyone coming on board whatever boat I end up with who can teach me to sail properly, lol. 

I have not.  I have not had an option to do so for quite a while :p  I will ask and let you know.  By coincidence I started dating an amazing woman last week who loves boats and wants to work on whatever boat I get with me.  She's smart, beautiful and can definitely kick my ass(She's an ironworker who build steel frames for dams), so I won't be posting anything of the sort without asking first, lol. 

 

sounds like life is looking up JG. You deserve it. Good luck.

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Well I went to see it.  i would say the maintenance effort was right on par with the sales effort.  Given that the guy decided while we were on the ferry that it wasn't worth showing the boat and that we could show it to ourselves...  Couldn't see anything on the bottom past the forest, gave everything else a going over and have about 8 pages of notes on expected work.   The deciding factors of an offer subject to bottom inspection for me will be what it has for sails, and the price. 

 

When was the last time you saw the boat?  The teak deck is worn down past the screw heads in many places, I'm surprised that could happen in only 5 years but the rest all looks possible for that time frame given the right owner.  Let's just say the pictures were similar to those people might post on a dating website... It looked bad in the photos but relative to in person it now looks pretty good in those pics.

 @SloopJonB

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On 5/31/2018 at 8:19 PM, d'ranger said:

The Islander Freeport 36 that I have sailed on is powered by a Pathfinder and it's not an issue. (it's a Bob Perry design btw), don't remember the displacement but is heavier than the Peterson. 

Was it Making Mary by chance?

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7 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Well I went to see it.  i would say the maintenance effort was right on par with the sales effort.  Given that the guy decided while we were on the ferry that it wasn't worth showing the boat and that we could show it to ourselves...  Couldn't see anything on the bottom past the forest, gave everything else a going over and have about 8 pages of notes on expected work.   The deciding factors of an offer subject to bottom inspection for me will be what it has for sails, and the price. 

 

When was the last time you saw the boat?  The teak deck is worn down past the screw heads in many places, I'm surprised that could happen in only 5 years but the rest all looks possible for that time frame given the right owner.  Let's just say the pictures were similar to those people might post on a dating website... It looked bad in the photos but relative to in person it now looks pretty good in those pics.

 @SloopJonB

I wasn't on board the last time I saw it in Race Rock so I couldn't say what the deck looked like - I just saw it from the ground and it looked just like the "good" pictures I posted earlier. Did you get below or only see it from on deck?

I'm not even going to bother looking - it sounds like a lot more work than I'm willing to take on. Just redoing the deck will go well into 5 figures just for materials. Then it needs an engine. Sounds like it needs to go into a shed for a complete rebuild, not just a refit & cosmetic project.

Sounds like things are getting pretty desperate. I hope you or someone else saves it - it is a very special boat.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I wasn't on board the last time I saw it in Race Rock so I couldn't say what the deck looked like - I just saw it from the ground and it looked just like the "good" pictures I posted earlier. Did you get below or only see it from on deck?

I'm not even going to bother looking - it sounds like a lot more work than I'm willing to take on. Just redoing the deck will go well into 5 figures just for materials. Then it needs an engine. Sounds like it needs to go into a shed for a complete rebuild, not just a refit & cosmetic project.

Sounds like things are getting pretty desperate. I hope you or someone else saves it - it is a very special boat.

To be brutally honest, it's a hull and maybe a deck with a half decent interior assuming the rot hasn't traveled.  Who digs out an area on the bow to the vertical grained layer then leaves it open anyways. 

My guesstimate at this point is 35k my cost not counting time, no sails purchasing and assuming the hull and deck structure are ok in most parts and that I'm focusing on reuse vs replace.  Like redoing the teak without fasteners but only buying new pieces as needed even though it'll be thinner. 

Interior was good for the most part.  Nice cruising layout for a race boat.  

It's the kind of project I'd love to focus on if someone else was to foot the bill, hard to chew this one myself. 

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Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

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45 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

It's more the debate of will it sink me thats the issue right now.  Lol.  If it were free I'd gamble on it, because worst case I could salvage the rig and lead to recoup some of the expenses(yes I know that's heartless, but when the guy has stripped away teak on the foredeck leaving a low area exposed, and stripped away some outside wood leaving the inner vertical plies exposed and hasn't hauled her in at least 3 years by his count...) .  Maybe I need to start one of those fundraising campaigns to cover the cost of materials, but I guess I'd have to sink another boat incompetently first for that to work... :P

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11 hours ago, bmiller said:

Was it Making Mary by chance?

No, at least not at that time, IIRC it was Orion.  That was over 10 years ago, so things might have changed.  The owner got into single handing, did the Bermuda 1/2 (not on that boat) and then pretty much hung it up. 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

DON'T do it JG, it'll break your heart and bank balance plus most likely any relationship you have.

FKT

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

DON'T do it JG, it'll break your heart and bank balance plus most likely any relationship you have.

FKT

That way lies madness.

Plus we'd make fun of you.

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Just now, Ishmael said:

That way lies madness.

Plus we'd make fun of you.

Well the last bit is simply character-building so wouldn't deter me. But then I was sailing/drinking/eating with 3 people who each built their own boats last weekend so I've got my support group....

No, rescuing an old 'classic' wooden boa that a previous owner has badly neglected is a bad move unless you plan on it never being actually finished and have a shit-ton of time & money you want to piss against the wall. In which case, go for it in the full expectation that you'll never finish and it's simply a lifetime hobby.

FKT

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Don't listen to them JG - that boat needs you.

I'll run interference for you around here.

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Time to start running and don’t look back 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Don't listen to them JG - that boat needs you.

I'll run interference for you around here.

So - how much of your personal time & money are you going to gift to him if he buys the distressed vessel?

Really easy to urge someone to do what you won't commit to yourself.

FKT

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

All Polynavicular Morbus sufferers have enablers who cheer them on.

 

16 hours ago, jgbrown said:

To be brutally honest, it's a hull and maybe a deck with a half decent interior assuming the rot hasn't traveled.  Who digs out an area on the bow to the vertical grained layer then leaves it open anyways. 

My guesstimate at this point is 35k my cost not counting time, no sails purchasing and assuming the hull and deck structure are ok in most parts and that I'm focusing on reuse vs replace.

Do your timetables and budgets spin wildly out of control like mine? (I once had a "little morning project" last several months.)

To be brutally honest, no pleasure boat makes a bit of financial sense. At all.

13 hours ago, jgbrown said:

It's more the debate of will it sink me thats the issue right now.  Lol. 

So that's always the only real financial question. If the answer is no and you want to play, play.

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I believe I’m the biggest PNM at the moment and the most wooden and I suggest he hauls ass on that one and gets a ‘glass boat

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Gentlemen, the time has come to choose sides. I know that we will be pitting brother against brother, even sons against their mothers, but nobody should idly on the sidelines in this all-encompassing conflict.

SJB is leading the "Do It, Dammit!" team, and so far we have S4B, Ish, and FKT on the anti-do-it team. Tom seems to be urging rational choice..... look, let's start out by stoning him, goddam atheist bastard. We can't have that shit.

The discussion will continue once everyone is lined up, according to their guiding philosophy. No casting asparagus before then, OK?

FB- Doug

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It’s time to use some reverse psychology here, and point out to JGB that it’s far too good a boat for him, and the very fact that he has already priced  the melt value of the keel means he should not be let anywhere near it. 

In fact, I think it’s exactly what he needs because it’s a boat with meaning and history, a boat that needs him.  From what he’s written he’s a thoughtful romantic who would always be disappointed with a boat that’s just like all the other boats. So I would tap test every inch of the hull, spike as much as you dare, and if the hull’s not rotten make a tough deal and buy it. 

The following might put you off however, which is why I make the point about the hull soundness. Remember it’s the rain that kills them not the sea, or maybe that’s not true for lake boats?

http://www.goldenfleeceofmersea.com/design.html

 

E

 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gentlemen, the time has come to choose sides. I know that we will be pitting brother against brother, even sons against their mothers, but nobody should idly on the sidelines in this all-encompassing conflict.

SJB is leading the "Do It, Dammit!" team, and so far we have S4B, Ish, and FKT on the anti-do-it team. Tom seems to be urging rational choice..... look, let's start out by stoning him, goddam atheist bastard. We can't have that shit.

The discussion will continue once everyone is lined up, according to their guiding philosophy. No casting asparagus before then, OK?

FB- Doug

:lol:

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10 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So - how much of your personal time & money are you going to gift to him if he buys the distressed vessel?

Really easy to urge someone to do what you won't commit to yourself.

FKT

If I was his age and owned a boatyard I'd already own it.

It's his duty to save it.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Tom seems to be urging rational choice..... look, let's start out by stoning him, goddam atheist bastard. We can't have that shit. 

^^^^^ :D

jgb, now that the atheists have been dispatched to meet their maker ...  it's time to ask the Saint Peter question.  As in "what will you tell Saint Peter?"

In a few decades, you'll be knocking at those pearly gates.  And Pete is gonna ask you what you did with your time and cash.

You have a chance to tell Pete that you restored a thing of beauty, preserving the labours of the craftsmen who made it, and letting its sails worship the wind which god sent.  You'll say "a thing of beauty is a joy forever", and Pete will hug you and hand you a glass of nectar saying "welcome home".  Then the angels will gather to keep you safe and happy for eternity.

The other option is that you tell Pete that you spent your money on a newer SUV.  Or extra luxuries for your home.  Or pretentious food.  Or fine wines.  Or sharper tailoring.  Or buying a few politicians.  Or collecting crap to put in a glass-fronted cabinet.

And then you will be basically in the territory which the late great Belfast footballer George Best found himself in at the end of his days.  His only defence was a wisecrack: "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

None of the theologians say Pete enjoys smart-asses.  So he'll be looking over your shoulder, curtly saying "next" and you'll be bouncing downhill into the eternal flames as Beelzebub sharpens his torture tools.

But obviously it's your choice and I wouldn't want to pressure you in any way.  <innocent face>

 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

If I was his age and owned a boatyard I'd already own it.

It's his duty to save it.

My take is “If I were his age and had a boatyard I’d never own it.”

Many boatshop owners are on a very thin line and he described his situation thoroughly. He needs to work on OTHER people’s boats for a while. That boat in not his dreamboat, just a daydream boat for now.

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3 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:
3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

If I was his age and owned a boatyard I'd already own it.

It's his duty to save it.

My take is “If I were his age and had a boatyard I’d never own it.”

Many boatshop owners are on a very thin line and he described his situation thoroughly. He needs to work on OTHER people’s boats for a while. That boat in not his dreamboat, just a daydream boat for now.

Careful now, you're trading really close to the edge of the Pit Of Lost (Attempting To Think Rationally About Boats) Souls.

The only way to get at this issue is to look at what JG thinks of her, himself:

On 6/4/2018 at 2:00 PM, jgbrown said:

....    ...    ...

It's the kind of project I'd love to focus on if someone else was to foot the bill, hard to chew this one myself. 

Sounds pretty un-enamored. I'm about to join the Anti-Do-It team. Personally, I have a throbbing letch for IOR boats, but not everybody does.

If she was on the East Coast, and a daggerboarder, I'd pleading with Mrs Steam to not divorce me when it followed me home.

FB- Doug

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

If I was his age and owned a boatyard I'd already own it.

It's his duty to save it.

But you're older and - presumably - richer, so it's your duty to pay for it. How much are you offering to kick in?

I've been here before and it's amazing how the urgers from the cheap seats so rarely put their hands in their pockets while trying to spend other peoples' money.

On another machining forum we decided that a particularly valuable (in function not dollars but getting towards $10K) machine needed to be preserved but very few had the space - the thing was nearly 10 tonnes and 4.5m long. We ALL kicked in a fair chunk of money and donated it to the designated sucker who had the space so he could take custody.

Point being that I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is, or STFU.

FKT

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I have zero intention of doing either. :P

Just had a call from the owner. It sounds like JG scoped it pretty accurately. Basically sound but needs a lot. He is in the same situation I am which is why he's selling it - just too much of a project for a geezer to take on and I'm not willing to write the size of cheques it would take to have pro's do it. I'm sure Jespersons could bring it back to the condition they originally delivered it but that would probably run into 6 figures.

I sure hope it goes to a good home - I'd hate to see it rot away.

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I used to be on the race team of a large Canadian bike maker. At some event in the late 90's, a teenage friend of ours was hanging out at the team pits and suggested to the company's marketing director, You guys should build more bikes that we can dream about". To which the marketing director responded, "We are trying to build more bikes that you guys can afford". I feel there is some lesson there in this current debate. 

It's a shame since how often is the original builder still in business and just right there: http://www.jespersenboats.com/gallery.html

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On 6/4/2018 at 12:25 PM, SloopJonB said:

Do it JG - it's up to you to save her.

Don't listen to them JG - that boat needs you.

I'll run interference for you around here.

If I was his age and owned a boatyard I'd already own it.

It's his duty to save it.

No it bloody well isn't.  That was the last guys's job.  The guy who incidentally STILL hasn't emailed me back to tell me if it has sails... but finally emailed back to say he'd call.  I wanted to spend my 20s sailing and having fun.  I spent it working 7 days a week instead.  I've done my philanthropic work already too, willingly for the boat owners who just got in over their heads like I did on my first boat, and couldn't afford to have the job finished right but where that would get them out enjoying the boat.  Also unwillingly, when the satisfaction of getting paid was outweighed by not hearing another word from the boat owners who pissed and moaned over bills they brought on themselves via neglect and laziness, while driving their 100, 000$ cars to come bitch about it.    It might need me, but I'm lucky to have met someone crazy enough to try it with me, so I do have a duty to not drag that brilliant and hard working woman into a never ending misery of a project.  If the numbers look doable, which will likely mean it both needs sails and an owner who is willing to come way down in price then it'd be of interest, IF the hull and underlying deck structure isn't any worse than what I can see.

22 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

DON'T do it JG, it'll break your heart and bank balance plus most likely any relationship you have.

FKT

Lol, possibly. She is crazy and hard working enough that we could pull it off possibly, but I need a clear assessment of the integrity of the hull/underlying deck structure beyond what I can do.  One of the options(which I expect will set SloopJon to gnashing his teeth, sorry) is to peel the teak, and glass the deck then paint/non-skid it.  It's such a clean deck that might be a good choice and it would eliminate some problem areas. 

22 hours ago, Ishmael said:

That way lies madness.

Plus we'd make fun of you.

So business as usual then :p

22 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Well the last bit is simply character-building so wouldn't deter me. But then I was sailing/drinking/eating with 3 people who each built their own boats last weekend so I've got my support group....

No, rescuing an old 'classic' wooden boa that a previous owner has badly neglected is a bad move unless you plan on it never being actually finished and have a shit-ton of time & money you want to piss against the wall. In which case, go for it in the full expectation that you'll never finish and it's simply a lifetime hobby.

FKT

Pretty much.  The other angle on is it realistically if I wasn't trying to preserve it forever(also feel guilty for thinking this) the cheap and cheerful route if the owner will come down in the 5000$ range and it has sails would be swap in a long block, I've already got an option on one with in decent condition for 1200$ plus 300$ to swap the marine components if it is a rabbit diesel, figure 500$ for dip and pressure test, and another 500$ for misc components(belts/impeller, oil&fuel filter new fuel lines etc), add 400$ for prop and shaft check and facing the coupling.  Then tear off the teak, mill it down and reinstall without fasteners)(2000$), sand the hull and repair the bow area(3000$) and spray with an affordable but not fancy varnish(2500$).  Bottom paint(400$+abrasives ) and go sailing.  That would probably buy me a usable boat for 5-8 years if there aren't any major hull issues, resell or scrap after that.   I'm pretty sure doing that would make me a terrible person though.  On the bright side after that I'd have a nice mast to offset the cost, the money from the lead and maybe some misc bits and pieces to sell off.  This is a super ballpark napkin doodle of an estimate.  The problem list is long. 

 

19 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Time to start running and don’t look back 

Most likely the route I'll take unless the sails just happen to be in fantastic condition and the owner comes down low enough. 

18 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So - how much of your personal time & money are you going to gift to him if he buys the distressed vessel?

Really easy to urge someone to do what you won't commit to yourself.

FKT

The one route I could see making a full restoration feasible would be to do some sort of a fundraising campaign, with some bbq/beer cruises to follow after launch for anyone contributing x$, a week of use of the boat for anyone qualifed to handle it for contributing y$, and maybe a classic race for those interested who contributed z$.   I would love to learn to sail properly so the last might be quite interesting.   I can't pull a full restoration off on my own.  With a new repower rather than a long block swap, and all the work I saw done to like new, I would estimate a paid refit at approx 1000-1500 hrs and 50k$ in materials(so call it an even 150k)  but I'm not sure anyone who could afford it would want to.  I see 4 choices, with the owner's lack of interest in providing details, I am leaning to choice 1 at the moment. 

1. Run away.

2. Buy it low enough, sealcoat the deck with a heavy couple coats of a tintable roll on deck product like superdeck(sorry Sloop), patch up the hull/fwd deck with mahogany, re&re the stanchions with backing plates and new sealant, wash the running rigging instead of replace, shoot the hull with the cheapest grade varnish that will do the job, bottom paint with 2 coats bulk interlux commercial paint and limp the engine along.  Projected lifespan of 3-4 years before scrap.  Exist strategy of scrap early if a critical failure turns up(eg major hull rot)

2.  Buy it low enough, do cheap and cheerful bare minimum patch job as mentioned earlier with a projected lifespan of 5-8 years, destined for salvage and scrap after.  Same exit strategy as above. 

3.  Source additional funding to do it right, with group participation, to be completed as funding is available, exit strategy to be used only if after 3 years funding is insufficient and completion is still a year or two away.

4.  Find a patron who wants to own the boat and wants to pay for the refit at full pull, or to have use of the boat for x seasons at reduced labour rate based on agreed upon length of use, no exist strategy, sufficient deposit required to ensure completion. 

12 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

All Polynavicular Morbus sufferers have enablers who cheer them on.

 

Do your timetables and budgets spin wildly out of control like mine? (I once had a "little morning project" last several months.)

To be brutally honest, no pleasure boat makes a bit of financial sense. At all.

So that's always the only real financial question. If the answer is no and you want to play, play.

Yes and no, on something like this?  Probably.  On a glass boat it depends on how much access we have to assess prior to tear out but if the scope of work is stuck to, typical +/- 15% for money, more on time.   How many owners can stick to a scope of work?  Maybe 10%.  I am usually fairly good at it for myself as long as I draw it up in writing ahead of time. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gentlemen, the time has come to choose sides. I know that we will be pitting brother against brother, even sons against their mothers, but nobody should idly on the sidelines in this all-encompassing conflict.

SJB is leading the "Do It, Dammit!" team, and so far we have S4B, Ish, and FKT on the anti-do-it team. Tom seems to be urging rational choice..... look, let's start out by stoning him, goddam atheist bastard. We can't have that shit.

The discussion will continue once everyone is lined up, according to their guiding philosophy. No casting asparagus before then, OK?

FB- Doug

 

8 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

It’s time to use some reverse psychology here, and point out to JGB that it’s far too good a boat for him, and the very fact that he has already priced  the melt value of the keel means he should not be let anywhere near it. 

In fact, I think it’s exactly what he needs because it’s a boat with meaning and history, a boat that needs him.  From what he’s written he’s a thoughtful romantic who would always be disappointed with a boat that’s just like all the other boats. So I would tap test every inch of the hull, spike as much as you dare, and if the hull’s not rotten make a tough deal and buy it. 

The following might put you off however, which is why I make the point about the hull soundness. Remember it’s the rain that kills them not the sea, or maybe that’s not true for lake boats?

http://www.goldenfleeceofmersea.com/design.html

 

E

 

The most valuable lesson a boatyard has taught me is to have an exit strategy that will not be deviated from if things pass a certain threshold, no matter what sentimentality might say.  Being able to offset purchase and hauling via salvaging the rig and lead is a sad but mandatory line to draw.  A tentative budget we have drawn up is 1500 hours over 2 years and 25-35k$ in materials/paid labour during that time.  Some of that would be for tooling since we are not geared to this type of work. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

My take is “If I were his age and had a boatyard I’d never own it.”

Many boatshop owners are on a very thin line and he described his situation thoroughly. He needs to work on OTHER people’s boats for a while. That boat in not his dreamboat, just a daydream boat for now.

The voice of common sense :-)

4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Careful now, you're trading really close to the edge of the Pit Of Lost (Attempting To Think Rationally About Boats) Souls.

The only way to get at this issue is to look at what JG thinks of her, himself:

Sounds pretty un-enamored. I'm about to join the Anti-Do-It team. Personally, I have a throbbing letch for IOR boats, but not everybody does.

If she was on the East Coast, and a daggerboarder, I'd pleading with Mrs Steam to not divorce me when it followed me home.

FB- Doug

As long as I don't add it to the field of broken dreams out back, and can get out without losing my shirt I might make a go of it, IF he ever gives me answers to the questions I've asked and they are positive at that point I'd give it 50/50 odds I'll go for it at a low enough price, subject to an inspection by someone qualifed(not me) to assess the hull integrity.  It is an incredible boat to climb around on.  Puts a lot of the plastic boats to shame.  Everything in the interior is nicely laid out to my mind except the aft quarter berth/storage that is nonsense. 

 

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/3kejXGUXXrqMZmkw1

All the photos from the visit, not sorted sorry.  I don't think the dinghy covered in spray foam came with it but it made me laugh.  It actually looks better in my photos even than in person.  Other issues include things like: Gauges are shot, engine weeping fluids, winches don't ratchet every tooth and seem gummy, some deck boards are worn to below fittings like scuppers/below screw heads, lots of lifting/missing sealant between teak deck strips, around deck fittings etc.    Rudder shaft has play fore and aft as well as side to side, the rot around the windows is at least 1/2" deep and that's at the high part of the lip it sits against so assume cabin side is worse, since there is a nice gap for it to pool in, visible gaps around windows, all hatches are leaking, the wood where it's been cut out on the bow shows some signs of water penetration, transom was not sealed under paint nor were sides of cabin trunk etc, lots of fine cracking in the wood, running rigging is very stiff and fuzzy, the forest on the bottom is large, owner states last haul out was 3 years ago, assuming paint was iffy then even.  Toilet has signs of leakage around it, electrical is kinda dodgy, hard to check bilge with only one hatch, lifelines shot, stanchions wobbly, chainplate sealant failed rot visible, some rot around bolts where mast passes through deck, on cabin and bulkhead, rot around stanchion bases inside, they were mounted into a fir 2x4' that runs around the perimeter of the boat, and the visible area is soft enough that a finger can distort it, a pick penetrates an inch easily, engine bay door is dragging on the floor badly and opening seems slightly off square now suggesting some movement there, water penetration around compainionway hatch.  Mast step and keel bolts very hard to inspect, mast step has some corrosion visible.   hatches appear to have acrylic glued in with PL or some other hard adhesive.   Engine has 3125.5 hours per hour meter and looks it.   The multiple layers of construction gives me some pause because the vertical grain in the middle layer to me seems like the ideal candidate for rot to travel if water can get there and won't be visible on the inside or outside as seen in removed area by bow). There's more but that's from memory since I can't find my notebook.   

On the plus side: The hull from what I could see looks decent inside and out except for the areas missing varnish which only show fading, greying and some light mold spotting, they feel and sound reasonably solid on the outside at least.  Thru hulls look OK with no rot around them.  The mast is in nice shape, and the tiller handle as well, hatches look rebuildable, love the layout, fridge/galley etc look serviceable.  The interior overall is in fair condition with no major signs of distortion/cracking in cabin floor/bulkheads or warping or major rot. 

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The current owner needs to be strung up by the balls for letting that boat deteriorate like that.

Run away.

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If you got it for a dollar I would still be convinced that you have paid too much for her.

Timber yachts have a alluring aura about them especially ones that are pretty to the eye but why take on someones neglected decaying obviously unloved burden.

Life is short and there are plenty of yachts out there that are ready to rock and roll.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

If you got it for a dollar I would still be convinced that you have paid too much for her.

Timber yachts have a alluring aura about them especially ones that are pretty to the eye but why take on someones neglected decaying obviously unloved burden.

Life is short and there are plenty of yachts out there that are ready to rock and roll.

 

 

There have been a few 33-34 boats of late(glass, hulll+deck or hull deck and engine only) that I have been keeping an eye on. The rig was replaced fairly recently(last 10 years I suspect, no corrosion visible around fasteners, paint is in very good condition).  So the total cheapskate fixup(safety of handrails/water tightness, quick bottom paint only, could be done in < 2 weeks) followed by a few years of using it until it fails would be alright if it has sails and I pay around the cost of the rig, the lead salvage would offset a lot of the dump fees(160$/ton) and the landfill I've used in the past allows for the dumping of complete vessels/rvs if the engine/batteries are out and bilge halfass cleaned.  Use it a couple years.  Dump at a minimal loss.  So to me it appears to have approx 7000$ between rig and lead in residual value as it sits if it has sails in reasonable condition.   So subtract a couple grand off that for expenses of hauling it here/dumping.  It sounds doable, boat repairs are easy when you have an end date in mind.    Sensible?  Probably not, which is why I haven't pushed him any harder to get me more info. 

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Having seen the photos I take back everything I said that implied you should buy her. Dead boat floating  

She needs a millionaire who lost his or virginity in the forepeak to sink some of their money into saving a dream, because that’s all that’s left. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

The current owner needs to be strung up by the balls for letting that boat deteriorate like that.

Run away.

+1

She's gone.  Needs resurrection, not restoration.  Run!

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54 minutes ago, jgbrown said:

There have been a few 33-34 boats of late(glass, hulll+deck or hull deck and engine only) that I have been keeping an eye on. The rig was replaced fairly recently(last 10 years I suspect, no corrosion visible around fasteners, paint is in very good condition).  So the total cheapskate fixup(safety of handrails/water tightness, quick bottom paint only, could be done in < 2 weeks) followed by a few years of using it until it fails would be alright if it has sails and I pay around the cost of the rig, the lead salvage would offset a lot of the dump fees(160$/ton) and the landfill I've used in the past allows for the dumping of complete vessels/rvs if the engine/batteries are out and bilge halfass cleaned.  Use it a couple years.  Dump at a minimal loss.  So to me it appears to have approx 7000$ between rig and lead in residual value as it sits if it has sails in reasonable condition.   So subtract a couple grand off that for expenses of hauling it here/dumping.  It sounds doable, boat repairs are easy when you have an end date in mind.    Sensible?  Probably not, which is why I haven't pushed him any harder to get me more info. 

Sounds like a steel boat I looked at again last year. When I first saw it, it was floating and neglected but saveable. The owner was a bit of a dick & wanted about 3X what I thought it was worth so I left him to it.

Fast forward 9 years and the boat is back on the market in the current owner's back yard. He bought it cheap and hauled it to work on, then realised what he'd done.

I took a look, compared the now with my earlier photos and gave the owner some frank advice. He offered to *give* me the boat if I paid the haulage.

Now, I'm an idiot, I really liked the lines, I have the space, machinery & skills to to the work. But - why? I had a new build about ready to launch and while I really, really liked the lines of this boat, I could probably build a new hull a lot faster than I could fix this one.

I did think of scrapping it out but left that for someone else. Who knows, it might get another lease on life, but not by me.

The previous owner needed to be shot for neglecting it so badly but once that's done, really, it's over. Walk away shaking your head at the waste, find something else & go sailing.

FKT

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Those pics are sickening. I'm tempted to call for a look at the boat just so I can hang a beating on the douchebag who let that happen.

 

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Those pics are sickening. I'm tempted to call for a look at the boat just so I can hang a beating on the douchebag who let that happen.

 

Maybe that's why he won't show the boat in person?

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4 hours ago, jgbrown said:

The decks are trimmed in driftwood?

Did the front fall off at some point? It doesn't seem to match.

The plywood hatch cover experiment isn't quite as advanced as my plywood table experiment from the Hot Rod thread.

The forest on the rudder looks like it would be a manatee banquet in this area.

ADGJAeLJa9mspnMVEoux8Oh3jo8gKCRxh0nGnIjr

The dink is a classic but I just noticed that this was supposed to be NOT mocking. Sorry. Run far and fast.

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Time to move this one along to the Mocking Craigslist abyss

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20 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The decks are trimmed in driftwood?

Did the front fall off at some point? It doesn't seem to match.

The plywood hatch cover experiment isn't quite as advanced as my plywood table experiment from the Hot Rod thread.

The forest on the rudder looks like it would be a manatee banquet in this area.

ADGJAeLJa9mspnMVEoux8Oh3jo8gKCRxh0nGnIjr

The dink is a classic but I just noticed that this was supposed to be NOT mocking. Sorry. Run far and fast.

There's at least $60 worth of canned foam in that POS, and it needs a few more cans. 

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Out of curiosity for the experts, briefly what is the worst thing here? I'm guessing it is the need to totally replace the deck, but the rot in the cabin around the windows seems expensive too. The hull seems to have a couple of sketchy spots in the photos but could be repairable?  Or is it just a cumulative disaster?

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7 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Out of curiosity for the experts, briefly what is the worst thing here? I'm guessing it is the need to totally replace the deck, but the rot in the cabin around the windows seems expensive too. The hull seems to have a couple of sketchy spots in the photos but could be repairable?  Or is it just a cumulative disaster?

It's fractally fucked.

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

There's at least $60 worth of canned foam in that POS, and it needs a few more cans. 

In fairness to the cold moulded boat guy, this wasn't his as far as I know.  The whole dock in Ganges(Saltspring Island) looked like a floating field of broken dreams and WTF moments.  All had massive forests of bottom growth there were several half submerged dinghies on moorings, couple boats on the rocks on the beach etc.

 

31 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Out of curiosity for the experts, briefly what is the worst thing here? I'm guessing it is the need to totally replace the deck, but the rot in the cabin around the windows seems expensive too. The hull seems to have a couple of sketchy spots in the photos but could be repairable?  Or is it just a cumulative disaster?

I'm no expert but it's a cumulative disaster to me.  Any one of these would be doable. For example if the boat needs a repower, but everything else is good.  Or the hull engine, rig and everything else are good, but the deck started to fail and needs to be torn off, any underlying problems fixed, reglassed then reinstalled.  Honestly the windows are the least of my concern, the cabin side is solid mahogany, so worst case, cut it out and install a new 1x12" of mahogany and done.  Or the bottom was covered in growth and in unknown shape but above the waterline was cared for.  This boat is like a truck your buddy gave you for a case of beer as a teenager when he got a real job and got tired of covering rust holes in duct tape, after his older brother got done beating on it while learning to drive, after that guy's cousin gave it to him when he got tired of fixing the free truck he got when his parents got tired of using it as a farm beater to haul the nasty shit around on the farm they wouldn't use the "good" truck for.   I suspect my numbers are not totally accurate(I'm not a wood guy), but I would wager on being +/- 25% with my ballpark of 150k if the hull is good and the underlying deck structure is OK if it was done as a full paid project.  1500 hours sounds like a lot(for reference we are going to be done a complete refit and interior modification and upgrade package on a 37'  powerboat that sank last year, and we'll be in the 300 hour ballpark.) but on something like this the scope of work just creeps like crazy.  To fix properly it's down to a crowdfunded job if enough people wanted in and to play with it a bit after it was done, where I was throwing in a ton of labour for free and space for free in exchange for keeping the boat after, or a wealthy backer who had fond memories of the boat and wanted to use it for a couple seasons after but mostly just loved the stupid thing irrationally, neither of which is likely.   

 

I'm still debating on option two, patch it up quick and dirty to buy a few  years before salvaging it(In current condition it would barely be worth salvaging, the rig and keel are of value but the keel value will be chewed up by trucking/disposal, the few years of use will offset that).  Nothing is so far gone that I couldn't buy myself a few years to play with it I think, but nothing left is good enough to be worth repairing except for the amusement of a paying audience due to it's historical significance and an appreciation for watching people do fundamentally illogical acts, or a person with more money and sentiment than sense to whom 150k is pocket change.  

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3 hours ago, jgbrown said:

The whole dock in Ganges(Saltspring Island) looked like a floating field of broken dreams and WTF moments.

Heh. That describes quite a few docks. The carnage of PM.

 

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1,500 hours is about half of what you’d need once you get the decks off and find the other problems.

This wreck is going to have more coverage as is than it has had since JB was a little boy. 

I will not look at the pictures, I’m too busy saving the world over here in NJ!

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

1,500 hours is about half of what you’d need once you get the decks off and find the other problems.

This wreck is going to have more coverage as is than it has had since JB was a little boy. 

I will not look at the pictures, I’m too busy saving the world over here in NJ!

The pics reveal a sad story of decay in almost every corner. Easier to build a new boat from scratch.

That's not really the tipping point, though. The real deciding factor, does this boat inspire the mad rush of giddy feeling that makes it worth putting your time & money into? Not necessarily the thought to sailing it "someday" (unpoetic soul that I am, this is what I tend to dwell on), just pure unfocused desire.

Boat lust, if you like.

Check out the Flirt of Paget thread to see what it would take, and what the boat would be like, restored. Worth it? Only to true believers (not a bad thing)

FB- Doug

 

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16 hours ago, Ishmael said:

It's fractally fucked.

Ah. Another way to say this is that the fucked-up-ness is Scale Free. It's fucked at all characteristic scales such as length, eg. from the whole boat at 10,000mm to the chain plate bolt holes at 10mm. In fact if you plot Log(length) vs Log(how is it fucked?). This should be a straight line. 

It's in Ganges yes? I'll be on Saltspring for some family thing in July and will go visit. That dock is indeed a dense repository of broken dreams. 

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Check out the Flirt of Paget thread to see what it would take, and what the boat would be like, restored. Worth it? Only to true believers (not a bad thing) 

The restoration of Flirt produced a stunning end result.  But the journey seemed to involve a huge number of person hours and a lot of cash.

It's a path only for true believers

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I worked 1176 person hours on Mooeak this past winter with no cash.

I hope I get a stunning result!

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

The restoration of Flirt produced a stunning end result.  But the journey seemed to involve a huge number of person hours and a lot of cash.

It's a path only for true believers

The level and detail of the FOP restoration was truely a few steps above most restorations.  Looking at the pics I think the boat is still a candidate for saving.  Seeing it in person might change my mind though.

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4 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

It's in Ganges yes? I'll be on Saltspring for some family thing in July and will go visit. That dock is indeed a dense repository of broken dreams. 

When I spoke to him he said Fulford.

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

When I spoke to him he said Fulford.

It's hard to tell from the description, all the government docks are covered in dense layers of fucked dreams.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

It's hard to tell from the description, all the government docks are covered in dense layers of fucked dreams.

Since we've been visiting Saltspring with several other families for years and have otherwise run out of novel adult things to do (I think you can argue drinking never loses its novelty), doing a comprehensive survey of the docks seems in order. I guess there is Fulford, Ganges and Vesuvius as well as Burgoyne Bay if you really want to get serious with the zombies. Are there any others? It's obviously not at Musgrave Landing at the extreme southern tip, which I have actually driven to and where there is a dock.

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9 hours ago, Blitz said:

The level and detail of the FOP restoration was truely a few steps above most restorations.  Looking at the pics I think the boat is still a candidate for saving.  Seeing it in person might change my mind though.

Anything in the Zombie Fleet is a candidate for saving. You just have to find a sacrificial wallet.

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There's a single float government dock at Fernwood,  way up the east coast of the island. Sort of opposite Vesuvius. I've overnighted there a couple of times but never seen another boat there.

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

When I spoke to him he said Fulford.

Yep, right by the ferry dock. 

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16 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Since we've been visiting Saltspring with several other families for years and have otherwise run out of novel adult things to do (I think you can argue drinking never loses its novelty), doing a comprehensive survey of the docks seems in order. I guess there is Fulford, Ganges and Vesuvius as well as Burgoyne Bay if you really want to get serious with the zombies. Are there any others? It's obviously not at Musgrave Landing at the extreme southern tip, which I have actually driven to and where there is a dock.

Indeed, Musgrave Landing is the only government dock where I have seen zero derelicts. Ganges public dock is ridiculous, they need to tow most of the boats there out of the environment.

Di9Fb02.jpg

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49 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Indeed, Musgrave Landing is the only government dock where I have seen zero derelicts. Ganges public dock is ridiculous, they need to tow most of the boats there out of the environment.

Di9Fb02.jpg

Lest we forget...it's the canadian cleats - that's why. 

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

Lest we forget...it's the canadian cleats - that's why. 

I actually posted that one to troll DDW, but thanks for taking up the cause.

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