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5 hours ago, ordkhntr said:

We now have two months under our belt with our genoa and we are still really pleased. Last week we had some higher winds (for us on the lake) breaking 20kts. We went out and after arguing with our furler were able to get the sail at about 100% (its a 142%). Worked well, we blasted along for quite a while till the wife and I were ready for a break. The furled shape was still pretty good, would have probably been better with a better trimmer than me :)

Something to remember again is that we have made a TON of changes over the last season so its really hard to say exactly how amazing this sail is. We also have lot to still complete. 

Most of our sailing is lower winds, that's why we went 142%. We pride ourselves on being the fastest sailboat on the lake with a bbq. The 3di Nordac fits our M.O. pretty much perfectly. Next is the main, but because its so small and just kinda acts like a trim tab on the Ranger 26 we will most likely go with good old crosscut. 

 

Oh, and in the last photo, that's smoke not clouds or fog. Damn wild fires have been stinking things up here. 

20170826_195916.jpg

 

Looks good - we have the same sail numbers!  That is a lot of headstay sag and would keep the jib powered up (overpowered) in breeze.  I haven't sailed on a Ranger, but are you able to adjust backstay tension to remove the sag when the breeze is up as I can do on my J/109 and previously on my J/30?  

Below is a picture of another 3Di NorDac test jib on a friends J/109.  Notice there is just a little headstay sag.  This picture also shows the lack of "wrinkles on the leech" that was discussed in a previous post.

 

IMG_20161030_125536.jpg

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Lifelines and an adjustable backstay are on the list for this off-season. Even after working on her for a year the list is still way too long :) .  We added a stern rail so the lifelines that were on it don't fit anymore, we are going to switch over to amsteel. Backstay was up there high on our list but we just didn't get it done. We just needed to get the boat in the water in July. Once all the stuff was done that required us to be on the hard we launched. Our lake is a flood control reservoir and they lower it October 1st to the point that we have to pull out from October to April.

Edited by ordkhntr
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7 hours ago, WHK said:

Looks good - we have the same sail numbers!  That is a lot of headstay sag and would keep the jib powered up (overpowered) in breeze.  I haven't sailed on a Ranger, but are you able to adjust backstay tension to remove the sag when the breeze is up as I can do on my J/109 and previously on my J/30?  

Below is a picture of another 3Di NorDac test jib on a friends J/109.  Notice there is just a little headstay sag.  This picture also shows the lack of "wrinkles on the leech" that was discussed in a previous post.

 

IMG_20161030_125536.jpg

That's a pretty good looking sail. Our sail maker recommended nordac for a PHRF genoa on our 105. It was a very reasonable price, about 2/3's of what the new class jib cost.

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http://www.cruisingworld.com/north-sails-3di-beyond-weave?ckT25CIoBBT8LbZg.03#page-3 

Please above link for North sails quotes.

I have to say the shape looks good, but I don't buy the continuous twist argument. I think that is tedious at best and just not relevant to cruising sailors. But it is the North USP so I guess they will tell customers that every other sail makers sails are bad because they don't have continuous twist. every laminate will de-laminate that's a fact, and if they are sighting Covilles record as proof of reliability then just under 6 months of use isn't really good enough for cruising sailors *figures based on 49 days RTW plus the 2 additional RTW distances quoted. 50,000 miles on a normal yacht will take a lot longer. I think this is typical smoke are mirrors publicity, sad thing is North sails thinks cruising sailors are stupid.

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Yesterday I went out with the North Sails folks to take pictures of the 3DI NORDAC test jib with 120 hours on it.  Kimo Worthington was on my boat taking photos, and Chuck Allen was in a RHIB taking photos.  Winds were 3-7 kts and a gorgeous day to be on the water in Newport off Castle Hill.  Answering a question from a previous post about the wrinkles on the leech.  Based on the photos it was determined that the spreader patches have aged at a different rate than the 3DI NORDAC material.  In the first photo below, you can see a clear picture of this.  The solution is the spreader patches will be peeled off and replaced.  North wanted to see if there was any evidence of mildew - there is none.   Check out the other photos below for various views.

Spreader Patch Wrinkles

spreader-patch-wrinkles.JPG

 

Kimo inspecting sail with close up of tack

close-up-tack.JPG

Slot view

slot-view.JPG

 

Close up slot view

slot-close-up.JPG

Side View

side-view.JPG

View powered up from side

powered-up.JPG

Head stay view with about 6 inches of sag

head-stay-view.JPG

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For a 30' boat (J92S) would you recommend a Nordac 3Di for racing ? Compared to the more traditional kevlar or carbon / kevlar film/film membranes...I'm wondering if there is that much difference in terms of stretch at this relatively small size...

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Perhaps this was answered already.   Can 3Di be left on the furler or does it need a sacrificial cover.  

Thanks in advance.

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we had a cover on ours and left it up. Went with a pretty light material, so it will probably have to be changed out more often than if you used Sunbrella or something like that, but it doesnt mess with shape as much. 

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1 hour ago, mlachance said:

Closeup of the material in my just delivered Nordac main. Yellowish color is because of the setting sun at the time the pic was taken

 

Was that the sail you used in the Mitchell Regatta to BI?  I used my old 135% 17 year old dacron sail along with its similar aged full baten cruising main.... Missed the performance of my 3DI NORDAC 145% genoa.

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They do look great.  The question no one can answer now if how they will hold up over time.  The 1 year warranty told me that North isn't sure.

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8 hours ago, WHK said:

Was that the sail you used in the Mitchell Regatta to BI?  I used my old 135% 17 year old dacron sail along with its similar aged full baten cruising main.... Missed the performance of my 3DI NORDAC 145% genoa.

No, this new Nordac main arrived the day after the regatta

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Great topic.

Two seasons ago, we blew up our #2 which was a Doyle Stratis membrane sail that came with the boat.  We were sailing along in 12 knots, and in less than 5 minutes a squall came through with 50+ knots...

North built us a beautiful tri-radial out of a dacron with dyneema threads.  It is grey in colour and a beautiful sail.  Have used it for two seasons and the shape is great.  I think it was a Norlam Xi09.  

This season, our main (also a Doyle stratus membrane sail) ended the season  delaminating badly and starting to mildew.  Time to replace.

I have a quote from North for the same Norlam radial design and a 3Di Nordac.  Virtually the same price, so not a factor.  My questions:  1.  Has anyone had any experience with 3Di Nordac on larger boats?  We are 48' and earlier in this thread it was suggested these were for smaller boats.  #2 anyone have one in a boom furler?  We have a Leisurefurl.

My personal commodore likes the idea of the grey sail to match the headsail.   She is also really happy with the headsail ... no issues, no mildew, great shape...

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

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25 minutes ago, jacrider said:

Great topic.

Two seasons ago, we blew up our #2 which was a Doyle Stratis membrane sail that came with the boat.  We were sailing along in 12 knots, and in less than 5 minutes a squall came through with 50+ knots...

North built us a beautiful tri-radial out of a dacron with dyneema threads.  It is grey in colour and a beautiful sail.  Have used it for two seasons and the shape is great.  I think it was a Norlam Xi09.  

This season, our main (also a Doyle stratus membrane sail) ended the season  delaminating badly and starting to mildew.  Time to replace.

I have a quote from North for the same Norlam radial design and a 3Di Nordac.  Virtually the same price, so not a factor.  My questions:  1.  Has anyone had any experience with 3Di Nordac on larger boats?  We are 48' and earlier in this thread it was suggested these were for smaller boats.  #2 anyone have one in a boom furler?  We have a Leisurefurl.

My personal commodore likes the idea of the grey sail to match the headsail.   She is also really happy with the headsail ... no issues, no mildew, great shape...

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

My understanding is that North were only building smaller sails as they had excess capacity for smaller sails, but for bigger sails they'd rather sell you the more expensive 3Di materials. But if you got a quote maybe that's changed.

I also think that 3Di is particularly well suited to boom furling. They've done many at this point. I have Leisurefurl as well.

 

 

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16 hours ago, kdh said:

My understanding is that North were only building smaller sails as they had excess capacity for smaller sails, but for bigger sails they'd rather sell you the more expensive 3Di materials. But if you got a quote maybe that's changed.

I also think that 3Di is particularly well suited to boom furling. They've done many at this point. I have Leisurefurl as well.

 

 

Many thanks for the feedback.

 

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Anyone have any insight into the different weights of 3Di NorDac? I've seen different Dpi say 19,600, 22,000...etc...

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On 11/5/2017 at 8:13 AM, jacrider said:

Many thanks for the feedback.

 

I ended up ordering the 3Di Endurance, which is a more "technical" sail than the Nordac.  Premium over the Nordac was 25% - will be lighter and hold shape better.  There was a bit of concern about fitting either the 3Di Nordac or the tri-radial in my Leisurefurl boom.  I am replacing a 3DL that was thinner than either of these.

Interesting, the 3Di Nordac was cheaper than a dacron tri-radial sail...

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2 hours ago, jacrider said:

I ended up ordering the 3Di Endurance, which is a more "technical" sail than the Nordac.  Premium over the Nordac was 25% - will be lighter and hold shape better.  There was a bit of concern about fitting either the 3Di Nordac or the tri-radial in my Leisurefurl boom.  I am replacing a 3DL that was thinner than either of these.

Interesting, the 3Di Nordac was cheaper than a dacron tri-radial sail...

I think going with some higher tech thread besides just dacron is a good choice for a 3Di sail.

Pure dacron means the highly loaded parts of the sail, especially the corners, are very thick and stiff. More like fiberglass than conventional cloth (including laminates). The clew for a main or headsail for a 40 foot boat is about as stiff and large as a 4x8 foot slab of plywood! By adding some dyneema, aramid, and/or carbon, the entire sail but especially the corners will be much lighter and more flexible. Since North makes the cloth specifically for your sail, the design and build process can easily incorporate some high tech fibers to get a more practical sail. A bit more cost of course. Its basically an infinite spectrum of possibility from pure dacron (heavy, thick, stiff, cheap) to pure carbon+spectra (light, thin, flexible, expensive).

"Endurance" is a label they North uses for a certain level of increased high tech fibers. Choose, and pay for, what you want, its up to you really. Quite possible to just add carbon near the corners so they are thin, and use dacron for the rest. Its completely tunable, its part of the design process.

I was also surprised by the bid I got from North for my Olson 40 sails: the 3Di Nordac was cheaper than dacron tri-radial sails. But once I saw the end-to-end process in the Minden plant (mid November 2017), then I understood how they could price so aggressively. 3Di is an efficient process, whether measured by capitalization, inventory, labor, or time, the 3Di process beats the traditional approach by a shocking degree.

But it was also clear that the rigidity of a pure dacron 3Di sail would be difficult to deal with unless it was rolled on the boom and headstay, and I'm not doing either.

The Challenge Warp Drive radial cloth is quite close to the stretch performance of 3Di Nordac, but is about twice as flexible. Still pretty stiff, but no resin or glue to break down. And it seems that WD does get more flexible over time. So on my slab reef, hanked headsail configuration, I think Warp Drive tri-radial sails will work better. If I was going to roll everything up, then I'd probably go 3Di but with some higher tech fibers to reduce weight and make the sail more flexible so it will roll better.

 

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