Polish Sailor

SY Sassy, Palmer Johnson Maxi 78 ft by Ron Holland for Dutch Schmidt

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:43 PM, SloopJonB said:

Wonder what the crime scene in the boat is? :D

Must be bad translation error???

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I’m glad he made it into port.

He’s had a pretty good shakedown cruise so far...

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9 hours ago, pasta514 said:

A boat that size uses 1x19???

Back when Sassy was built, all Maxis had 1x19 standing rigging.  Aramids, carbon etc., were way off in the future.  Rod rigging was just coming on the scene....

EDIT...  Probably should have replaced all the old standing rigging before such an arduous circumnavigation....

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15 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Back when Sassy was built, all Maxis had 1x19 standing rigging.  Aramids, carbon etc., were way off in the future.  Rod rigging was just coming on the scene....

EDIT...  Probably should have replaced all the old standing rigging before such an arduous circumnavigation....

^^^^^^this. 

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hi.
just to clarify -  broken is the smallest forestay (third):

19748779_397014754025967_6595354847563241703_n.jpg

and yes, "main" rigging are rods (headstay, backstay, shrouds..)

photos taken in Cuxhaven 7.12.2017

1 14030002.MOV_snapshot_20.14_[2018.01.28_23.54.20].jpg

2 14030002.MOV_snapshot_17.36_[2018.01.28_23.53.52].jpg

3 14030002.MOV_snapshot_14.18_[2018.01.28_23.52.50].jpg

Edited by kszyh.km
add new photos

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On 1/27/2018 at 11:32 AM, Polaris said:

Hanging on by a thread, considering the rigging is as big as your wrist.  Inspect them all and replace.  I am jealous of the adventure. 

26992112_476957059365069_5264092922771429520_n.jpg

27332115_476957056031736_8939758755485755343_n.jpg

Maybe as wide as a pinky finger. 

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20 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Back when Sassy was built, all Maxis had 1x19 standing rigging.  Aramids, carbon etc., were way off in the future.  Rod rigging was just coming on the scene....

EDIT...  Probably should have replaced all the old standing rigging before such an arduous circumnavigation....

Sassy is not THAT old. Rod rigging was commonplace for at least a decade before she was launched. 

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The new rig dates from about 2005? My memory is fuzzy on dates.

She spent a lot of time on the salt after that with some less than well funded owners.

Who knows how skilled the "inspectors" were.

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Swedges are sketchy. If they are about to fail, you can’t tell. But they do fail, often after months or a couple of years. Sure, some last decades, but some do not. And you can’t inspect and tell the difference.

Rod or fiber, but no swedged wire for me.

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I raced a on a Skye 51? that some good friends had just upgraded to from a very nicely refurbished Swan 43. They had done the work themselves on the Swan and had sold it for a pretty good profit and it was just a stepping stone to the bigger newer Skye. The boat was at least 10 years old and I couldn't believe how new it looked when I first got on board for the first race. I asked about the rod rigging getting inspected since they bought it and they said that a visual inspection had been done. I opined that 10 year old rod especially in the tropics should get magna fluxed or at least the dye penetrant treatment. They also said that the boat had only been sailed for 10 months when new and had been stored indoors for a decade so was essentially still a new boat. 

     The first race of that Copa Velasco was howling and the committee boat and mark boats were dragging all over the place. We had a reefed main up sailing about waiting for a line and course to be set and finally put up a blade jib when the long windward course was announced. Nasty day and I'm surprised that the race wasn't called and everyone retire to the club for the copious sponsor supplied rum ashore. (Copious Velasco was a nickname for the regatta!)

    We had a good start and were sailing right down the wake of a smaller competitor. Our blade let us work up over the other boat and just as we started to roll them to windward there was a big bang and out rig sort of set itself over to leeward and then just went down like the periscope of a submarine. I would have thought the rig would have fallen into the cockpit of the boat to leeward and the must have thought the same by the shocked looks on their faces. The D1 had let go which accounted for the odd manner in which the rig came down.

    We knocked out what turnbuckle and toggle pins we could and cut the broken stub and let the rig sink bouyed for later retrieval. As we motored back to the marina I was tidying up on deck and found an odd lump of metal in the scuppers amidship and when I picked it up I realised it was the peened head of the broken D1. You could see it had been cracked about 2/3's of the way through for some time by the discolorisation of the metal and then the bright shiny look of the newly sheered complete breakage. I walked back to the helm and showed the owner and asked if the turnbuckles had been opened up and the upper barrels skinned back to inspect the peened heads and he said he guess not from what we were looking at. I the asked what the circumstances were that the boat only had ten months of sailing to then be mothballed for so long and was surprised to hear that it had competed in one of the Whitbread Races! 

     They had made it sound like the proverbial car salesman and the little old lady who only drove to church. New boat if you don't count a circumnavigation in a competitive fleet.

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4 hours ago, carcrash said:

Swedges are sketchy. If they are about to fail, you can’t tell. But they do fail, often after months or a couple of years. Sure, some last decades, but some do not. And you can’t inspect and tell the difference.

Rod or fiber, but no swedged wire for me.

 

Some people who regularly refit larger race boats, send the standing rigging out for NDT inspections, to examine the rod or wire end fittings for potential failure.  I have no idea what the cost is, but presumably less that total replacement,  

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7 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Some people who regularly refit larger race boats, send the standing rigging out for NDT inspections, to examine the rod or wire end fittings for potential failure.  I have no idea what the cost is, but presumably less that total replacement,  

For the cost of a piece or 2 off wire, just replacing them makes sense.  Peanuts in the bigger picture. 

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15 minutes ago, mad said:

For the cost of a piece or 2 off wire, just replacing them makes sense.  Peanuts in the bigger picture. 

That piece or two is about 1000' of wire as thick as your thumb. I suspect that every one of the couple of dozen swage fittings would cost $hundreds - before being swaged.

That said, the rig should have been re-done as a priority before a trip like that.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

That piece or two is about 1000' of wire as thick as your thumb. I suspect that every one of the couple of dozen swage fittings would cost $hundreds - before being swaged.

That said, the rig should have been re-done as a priority before a trip like that.

Exactly, that’s one shortcut you cannot take!

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trouble with NDT is that it's not 100%.

I've personal experience with a rig that was NDT tested only to fail less than 6 wks later  .

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1 hour ago, mad said:

For the cost of a piece or 2 off wire, just replacing them makes sense.  Peanuts in the bigger picture. 

Yeah, but most race boats quit using wire decades ago, as pasta guy posted above.  If it's not rod, it's Carbon or Aramid. None of which are cheap...

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7 hours ago, carcrash said:

Swedges are sketchy. If they are about to fail, you can’t tell. But they do fail, often after months or a couple of years. Sure, some last decades, but some do not. And you can’t inspect and tell the difference.

Rod or fiber, but no swedged wire for me.

Swage fitting are MUCH easier to inspect than those other two - almost all failure modes manifest on the surface and can be seen during a careful inspection. Mostly tiny cracking. That above failure may be improper swage machine (I've never seen a proper swage machine leave those squared off flats) or poor swage fitting to start with. To have the outer strands break right at the end of the swage indicates that either there was no chamfer at the edge of the fitting or the swage body could not align with the load.

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On 1/28/2018 at 2:50 PM, kszyh.km said:

and yes, "main" rigging are rods (headstay, backstay, shrouds..)

All the real important stuff is rod.  The failed part was an inner forestay.  I'm no expert in big boat rigs but I don't see how the rig was in danger off falling.

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My inner stay, or babystay, is 19 X 1 although all of the standing riging is rod. It is mounted on a track and is used to bend the mast 1\3 of the way up. It is not critical in keeping the mast up and in storage, I remove it to make covering the boat easier, Its a 1978 IOR racer/Cruiser weighing 18t. This one appears to have been badly assembled and the swage must have cut in the wires. I have had rod break at the bend around lower spreader and am in the process of finding a source for a new rigging (rod). 

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I changed my babystay to dyneema a few years back. Easy to replace at sea and much kinder to sails and crew. I strongly recommend it!

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On 1/30/2018 at 9:18 PM, longy said:

Swage fitting are MUCH easier to inspect than those other two - almost all failure modes manifest on the surface and can be seen during a careful inspection. Mostly tiny cracking. That above failure may be improper swage machine (I've never seen a proper swage machine leave those squared off flats) or poor swage fitting to start with. To have the outer strands break right at the end of the swage indicates that either there was no chamfer at the edge of the fitting or the swage body could not align with the load.

I agree, poorly done swage.

Perhaps he should replace all the other swages that look like that.

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10 hours ago, GeorgB said:

I changed my babystay to dyneema a few years back. Easy to replace at sea and much kinder to sails and crew. I strongly recommend it!

Yep, that's on the to do list also along with the running backstays but the big $$ on the rod will delay the conversion of  it and all running rigging to Dyneema for a year .

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hi,
i have some news for you from Wojtek (.woj - Polish Sailor)

As You probably know, Irek came to Salvador and Wojtek flew to Brazil to help Irek repair the yacht.

On 1.02.2018 at 4:59 PM, ropetrick said:

I agree, poorly done swage.

Perhaps he should replace all the other swages that look like that

this was not the cause of the failure, but the result of different one.

the primary failure was the hydraulic cylinder (tensioner) on the inner forestay (the second from the bow) which broke down
this caused an overload of babystay which broke in the weakest place - at the fitting
it all happened on a very large dead wave (probably)

Irek and Wojtek ordered a new babystay from the local "boat builder". The new stay did turn out to be new, but in 2007 and the norseman ends are also almost new - but the price is as new and made of gold. It ended with a big fuss, when they gave up the services of "boat builder".
A new parts was ordered from another company is Rio, they had to wait a week in the port of Salvador for shipping.

Everything has been repaired, but time passes inexorably (a loss of about 2 weeks) and returning to the route, Irek would be at Horna in April.
After analyzing all the pros and cons and on the advice of older, more experienced captains, Irek decided not to continue the cruise around the world this year.

Now Irek and Wojtek decided to take advantage of the fact that they are "close" and sail to Horn, do reconnaissance for future cruises and return to Poland with one stop.
You can follow them on tracker at:
https://eur-share.inreach.garmin.com/IreneuszChwoka

After returning to Europe, there are planned some cruises in Europe and longer ones, on the route Europe - Horn - Europe.

 

PS. today's message from them: 
"Buenos Aires is getting closer, maybe someday we will get there. Now the direction of the wind surprisingly favors us on the course on Horn. Wind 11 knots and 8.5 SOG. Getting closer to the Horn.

regards,
KM

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mapa.jpg

woj.jpg

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thank-you

kszyh.km

appreciate you keeping us updated .

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On 1/29/2018 at 8:44 AM, ropetrick said:

The new rig dates from about 2005? My memory is fuzzy on dates.

She spent a lot of time on the salt after that with some less than well funded owners.

Who knows how skilled the "inspectors" were.

She lost the prior rig in 2002.

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Interesting failure analysis but I don't believe it. Those rigs were meant to sail with the babystay on almost continuously, and the inner forestay was used very rarely. So the baby should have been fully up to the loads experienced.

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51 minutes ago, longy said:

Interesting failure analysis but I don't believe it

I know what happened and in what order
the cause of the original failure is a supposition, it could be many things: weather, wave, material defect etc. - and probably was all of them, in a different %
i'm not here to convince anyone of anything, but the order of failure is a fact

all has been checked many times, we sailed from Poland to the Canary Islands,
we were caught by a storm in the North Sea (wind 52 kn, sharp waves 4-5 m) and nothing happened
and everything was checked again in the Canary Islands before the start

it's sad, but shit happens
that's all

KM

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I've had two 1x19 head stays fail at the same spot.

 the culprit was a misaligned tang out of the ball joint.  To my knowledge there are two t-ball tang swedge fittings, one at 0deg exit angle, one at 4deg.

  we had the wrong angle fitting causing the failure in both instances.  tough part is, it is difficult to see the differences in the angle of the tang to the stay, especially when the rig is up.

  that's my guess on the failure here.

 

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Not sure if everyone knows but Offshore Spars is co-located with Sassy Marine.  I'm assuming that Mike Feldman built the spar for Sassy and his workmanship is second to no one.  Was the stay original?  Is 35yrs a reasonable lifetime...I know my boat builder doesn't think so.  I've dealt with Mike once in my life and walked out the door for about half what I thought it was going to cost.  Absolutely a great guy and I would never ask for a second estimate on rigging.  

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On ‎11‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 9:59 PM, Cal20sailor said:

Not sure if everyone knows but Offshore Spars is co-located with Sassy Marine.  I'm assuming that Mike Feldman built the spar for Sassy and his workmanship is second to no one.  Was the stay original?  Is 35yrs a reasonable lifetime...I know my boat builder doesn't think so.  I've dealt with Mike once in my life and walked out the door for about half what I thought it was going to cost.  Absolutely a great guy and I would never ask for a second estimate on rigging.  

After the demage which was during sailing "round the world". We replace that baby stay and now we are in Uruguay.

During last months we was thinking, and we was checking it one more time, and now we decide to replace whole rigging.

We think that it's only one way to be sure about safty sailng.

So now, we need more information about rigging, maybe you can talk with Mike Feldman, and maybe he has got still any documents of the rigging. any datas and catalougs from that days.

best for you.

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Amazing Sassy gets a second life. I wonder if Fazi will get the same luck. I heard talk of a refit after she was Irma'd and got bought from salvage.

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On 2/11/2018 at 3:59 PM, Cal20sailor said:

Not sure if everyone knows but Offshore Spars is co-located with Sassy Marine.  I'm assuming that Mike Feldman built the spar for Sassy and his workmanship is second to no one.  Was the stay original?  Is 35yrs a reasonable lifetime...I know my boat builder doesn't think so.  I've dealt with Mike once in my life and walked out the door for about half what I thought it was going to cost.  Absolutely a great guy and I would never ask for a second estimate on rigging.  

I doubt the standing rigging was original, the rig was replaced in 2002/2003 after Sassy lost it at the end of a Chi Mac.

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1 hour ago, barleymalt said:

I doubt the standing rigging was original, the rig was replaced in 2002/2003 after Sassy lost it at the end of a Chi Mac.

Yup, it and part of a finger got replaced.  Were you with us on that one?

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I can't agree with you more regarding Offshore Spars.  Mike worked with me on my boat's spar needs and he was nothing short of outstanding!

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I doubt the standing rigging was original, the rig was replaced in 2002/2003 after Sassy lost it at the end of a Chi Mac.

And if it's the same rigging from that 02/03 replacement, still far too old to consider going around the world with it.

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On 3/30/2018 at 8:32 AM, Cal20sailor said:

Yup, it and part of a finger got replaced.  Were you with us on that one?

Nope. Never sailed the boat,  sailed against it a bunch.

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38 minutes ago, barleymalt said:

Nope. Never sailed the boat,  sailed against it a bunch.

I meant were you on the boat next to Sassy when the dust cleared?  Hint, I watched RJ pull weeds out of the intake.

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Hi, I've got good news for you.
You can join us! That's right!

The greatest adventure on the Chief One ex Sassy is sailing to ANTARCTICA in 2019. We have got still some available places for you.

overview_Ant_Horn_EGN.png.1a17eca790656bd87ba555ef250c75e9.png

We will be sailing also to Cape Horn few times, so you can choose the best date for you. You can check all of cruises on the website.

https://chiefone.eu/en/cruises/

English version is almost ready:

https://chiefone.eu/en/

If you have got any question just write to me

info@chiefone.eu

Check the map! I believe that you can go there!

g3876.thumb.png.6c0fb3ac4770e50caaeb5f93371766d9.png

.woj

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