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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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Mike G

Ailes. DTS

200 posts in this topic

Just now, TMSAIL said:

Where did you get the impression that none of that bothers me in the slightest?  

Russia.  At this time There is no evidence that there was collusion so I'll wait that one out. If it comes out that there was collusion involving Trump directly he should resign    You know that almost everyone in his cabinet has some business ties to Russia, right? That his kids have bragged about how much business he does there.

I don't buy into the racism charge  or that he accepted white nationalists KKK or Nazis  simply because they supported  him   Was Obama a supporter of the new black panther party?   Steve Bannon...

emoluments clause  I'd love to see that one go to court.  

Tax return - the only one we saw showed he paid a lot of taxes.   I think he should release them 

Family. Well those are the people he trusts.   Kennedy's AG was his brother.  Bill talked about getting two for one referring to Hillary.   It's been a long time since we had a POTUS with grown adult children.  So that one doesn't bother me 

The Last portion  is about his character  I find it a serious flaw in a president., but all that was known going in.  Yet he still won.  

I Stand behind what he is trying to do.  Healthcare reform, tax reform and growing the economy.   That and appointing judges.  Obama got his picks.  Trump gets his. Elections have consequences. 

Garland should of had a hearing.  But that is over and done with. 

You keep defending him and claiming that everyone is so unfair and awful to him. This shit started with him about a minute after he paid a bunch of actors to pack his announcement on the stairs.

Longer than that, actually. If you ever spent any time living in New York (I was there for seven years) Trump was a bit of a fixture. And not a good one, you heard constantly about his crassness, dishonesty, showboating, etc. This is a man that personally paid for a full page NT Times add calling for the execution of five youths who were later exonerated. Crap like that...made Trump both a household name in NY, and also the subject of a lot of contempt and derision, throwing him in the camp with such lovely characters as Leona Helmsley.

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7 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Knowing your tolerance of anyone with strong religious leanings  I can only imagine the insane levels those rants will reach.

What exactly is this supposed to mean, if not flat out calling me an anti-religious bigot?

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3 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

What exactly is this supposed to mean, if not flat out calling me an anti-religious bigot?

I was referencing Politicians with strong religeous views specifically Pence.  

You sure as hell are anti religion.  

I don't equate that to your being a bigot against everyone that is religious. 

Again if you read it that way my bad for not being clearer. 

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35 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

and the left looked away from all the sex charges against Clinton.   Partisanship goes both ways. 

We're not talking about abstract partisan sheeple, we're talking about you.

You defend a repugnant pussy grabber.

You defend a bigot.

You apologize for somebody that mocked a disabled guy.

You excuse a bully.

Why? Folks on this forum are curious as to what you are thinking.  Is it really just as simple as "He is a Republican so he is my guy." Maybe there is no "there" there. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I was referencing Politicians with strong religeous views specifically Pence.  

You sure as hell are anti religion.  

I don't equate that to your being a bigot against everyone that is religious. 

Again if you read it that way my bad for not being clearer. 

Ummmmmmmm...................................

Maybe better if you said: "For heaven's sake! You sure as hell are anti religion!"

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1 minute ago, Clove Hitch said:

We're not talking about abstract partisan sheeple, we're talking about you.

You defend a repugnant pussy grabber.

You defend a bigot.

You apologize for somebody that mocked a disabled guy.

You excuse a bully.

Why? Folks on this forum are curious as to what you are thinking.  Is it really just as simple as "He is a Republican so he is my guy." Maybe there is no "there" there. 

 

 

All of those charges were out prior to the election.  

Obama referred to Americans as bitterly clinging to their guns and religion  

clinton called half the country deplorable 

Bill Clinton and Kennedy got their jollies screwing  woman outside their marriage

Weiner, Foley and many others have crossed lines most Americans find repulsive 

To some extent we all look the other way when it comes to elections  

Yet you want to make it personal  and about me   

 

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18 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:
26 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

What exactly is this supposed to mean, if not flat out calling me an anti-religious bigot?

I was referencing Politicians with strong religeous views specifically Pence.  

You sure as hell are anti religion.  

I don't equate that to your being a bigot against everyone that is religious. 

Again if you read it that way my bad for not being clearer. 

I've said this many times before...

I do not give a damn what anyone believes in private. None at all. I have friends, family, and a spouse with deeply held religious convictions and we all get along just fine. We observe Christmas in my house, though the kids and I skip the churchy bits, we treat the holiday with respect.

Where I take exception is to politicians that make their religion part of their political agenda.

This is usually a phenomenon on the right, not the left, since church-state separation is something the left tends to be a lot more sensitive about. And much of the right simply doesn't believe in it.

So yeah, I will oppose quite loudly someone that wants to pass laws to make me live by their religious standards.

 

On a personal level, yes, I view religion as superstition. Since I don't believe in any of it, I don't see a reason to differentiate any special place for one reason or another. Christianity, Islam, etc. are all on the same level as the polytheistic religions of primitive tribes or nonsense like Astrology. A religion or religious ideas deserves no more special protection than your choice of football team, though I will say I am more likely to judge you harshly for being a Steelers fan than any religion you might hold.

In general, unless it comes up in conversation, I will keep my opinions to myself. So much so that many people assume I am religious, and maintain that assumption right up until the minute they act on it. If someone is stubborn enough to try and proselytize to me or argue religion with me they usually walk away annoyed. But it's not a conversation I will ever start, though I have been known to end them. I once had to take one of our club Commodores to task for e-mailing out false anti-atheist propaganda to a list that included a number of club board members like myself, for example. Of course, I did it privately, personally, and discretely with the Commodore instead of blasting out a Reply All.

Here in PA, a lot of the discussions spin towards religion, because a lot of people base their political ideology on religious lines. A lot of positions like marriage rights, abortion, etc. are essentially religious issues. Religion is pretty much unavoidable in American politics, especially since Reagan went to bed with the Moral Majority. So I will admit that I come off as rather strident, because I strongly oppose religious intervention into our political decisions.

But do not make the mistake in assuming that I have any personal animosity towards someone because of their religious beliefs. Any animosity I have towards a guy like Mike Pence isn't because of what he believes, but how he acts as a result.

 

EDITED TO ADD: I would also state that on the whole, I believe religion has been anything but an overwhelming force for good. Personal beliefs play less into that than people willing to exploit those beliefs (and people open to holding them) for their own gain. But as a species, I suspect we would be much better off had we skipped the dark ages, the crusades, and many, many years of religious wars.

So "anti-religion?" Maybe that's fair. I don't think that religion has been healthy for humanity general.

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Just now, TMSAIL said:

All of those charges were out prior to the election.  

Obama referred to Americans as bitterly clinging to their guns and religion  

clinton called half the country deplorable 

Bill Clinton and Kennedy got their jollies screwing  woman outside their marriage

Weiner, Foley and many others have crossed lines most Americans find repulsive 

To some extent we all look the other way when it comes to elections  

Yet you want to make it personal  and about me   

 

Why do you keep bringing up democrats?  I haven't voted for a democrat for decades. 

Those "charges?"  Are you saying he didn't boast about grabbing pussy?  Are you saying he didn't mock a disabled reporter?  

You seem like a complete partisan robot.   I guess there really is no "there" there with you.  Sad

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3 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I've said this many times before...

I do not give a damn what anyone believes in private. None at all. I have friends, family, and a spouse with deeply held religious convictions and we all get along just fine. We observe Christmas in my house, though the kids and I skip the churchy bits, we treat the holiday with respect.

Where I take exception is to politicians that make their religion part of their political agenda.

This is usually a phenomenon on the right, not the left, since church-state separation is something the left tends to be a lot more sensitive about. And much of the right simply doesn't believe in it.

So yeah, I will oppose quite loudly someone that wants to pass laws to make me live by their religious standards.

 

On a personal level, yes, I view religion as superstition. Since I don't believe in any of it, I don't see a reason to differentiate any special place for one reason or another. Christianity, Islam, etc. are all on the same level as the polytheistic religions of primitive tribes or nonsense like Astrology. A religion or religious ideas deserves no more special protection than your choice of football team, though I will say I am more likely to judge you harshly for being a Steelers fan than any religion you might hold.

In general, unless it comes up in conversation, I will keep my opinions to myself. So much so that many people assume I am religious, and maintain that assumption right up until the minute they act on it. If someone is stubborn enough to try and proselytize to me or argue religion with me they usually walk away annoyed. But it's not a conversation I will ever start, though I have been known to end them. I once had to take one of our club Commodores to task for e-mailing out false anti-atheist propaganda to a list that included a number of club board members like myself, for example. Of course, I did it privately, personally, and discretely with the Commodore instead of blasting out a Reply All.

Here in PA, a lot of the discussions spin towards religion, because a lot of people base their political ideology on religious lines. A lot of positions like marriage rights, abortion, etc. are essentially religious issues. Religion is pretty much unavoidable in American politics, especially since Reagan went to bed with the Moral Majority. So I will admit that I come off as rather strident, because I strongly oppose religious intervention into our political decisions.

But do not make the mistake in assuming that I have any personal animosity towards someone because of their religious beliefs. Any animosity I have towards a guy like Mike Pence isn't because of what he believes, but how he acts as a result.

I respect that and never doubted where you stood.    Those views do not make you a bigot that was not my intent or belief. 

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

All of those charges were out prior to the election.  

Obama referred to Americans as bitterly clinging to their guns and religion  

clinton called half the country deplorable 

Bill Clinton and Kennedy got their jollies screwing  woman outside their marriage

Weiner, Foley and many others have crossed lines most Americans find repulsive 

To some extent we all look the other way when it comes to elections  

Yet you want to make it personal  and about me   

 

Reference Newt Gingrich, Donald Trump, Mark Sanford, John Ensign, David Vitter, Rudy Guiliani..... Etc.

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8 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Reference Newt Gingrich, Donald Trump, Mark Sanford, John Ensign, David Vitter, Rudy Guiliani..... Etc.

Yeah they would fall into the "many others " line in my post.   

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Since this wandered into religion a little bit, I was listening to Neil deGrass Tyson the other day and he mentioned something I'd never really considered.

Why aren't there very many Black atheists? 

I had never really thought about it.  He actually provided an answer - at least his opinion - as well.

 

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Modern atheism is more of a political movement than a religious movement.

Black churches tend to be very personal and generally not that politically active.  They're not trying to change coursework in schools for example.  They tend to focus on bake sales and helping the local community. 

Even if you're not religious, blacks tend not to become anti-religious because, even though the churches hold strong views, theres just not as much to push back against in a practical way.  The churches just not that actively involved in controversial issues.

That was his view.  I don't know if it's true.  I just thought it was interesting.

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52 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Modern atheism is more of a political movement than a religious movement.

Black churches tend to be very personal and generally not that politically active.  They're not trying to change coursework in schools for example.  They tend to focus on bake sales and helping the local community. 

Even if you're not religious, blacks tend not to become anti-religious because, even though the churches hold strong views, theres just not as much to push back against in a practical way.  The churches just not that actively involved in controversial issues.

That was his view.  I don't know if it's true.  I just thought it was interesting.

 I read on a forum where religion comes up a lot and regarding atheism it just gets silly when people try to state that it is a religion, when in actuality it is believing in nothing. There is a vacuum but some will insist it is not just a vacuum. Which sucks. haha.   I will have to check out Neill, he is always interesting.

I have decided this thread is good for what Ailes ya.

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3 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Ah more wonderful efforts to have civil discourse.  Love the fact that you responded to my post twice.   Did you think we didn't hear you the first time or did you forgot your first attempt.   CNN 93% negative and you guys bitch about FOX 

Maybe the coverage is negative because Trump's admin is failing and flailing? Ya think? That was rhetorical, clearly you don't.

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Maybe the coverage is negative because Trump's admin is failing and flailing? Ya think? That was rhetorical, clearly you don't.

Certainly cant be because Trump is a criminal buffoon and utterly incompetent. 

All thos bad press is just liberal sour grapes. Clearly.

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TMSAIL: you seem to be counting on phrases like "lets see the emoluments charge fly in court" or "see if the charges stick." Sorry if these aren't perfect quotes, but the point is, impeachment doesn't have to be based on charges, or evidence factually proven to you or other citizens.

Impeachment is a political process, a blunt tool used to solve problems. One problem might be if the President is found guilty of a crime, such as obstruction of justice, or grabbing a pussy belonging to a woman who preferred it be left alone. Another might be if a public servant is found incapable or unwilling to serve.

But impeachment in this case is much more likely the realization by a majority of the Congress that the country would be better off with the process carried out. This is political calculus, and you've got to realize that the GOP is increasingly seen as out of touch with a sizable portion of America. Yes, they have stalwart support from a vocal minority, and that has secured wins across the board, but it is a house of cards that either ends with dictatorial rule, falling apart, or substantive change. Were it not for voter suppression laws, gerrymandering, a scarred and uninspiring opponent, and a populist surge that surprised everyone, this would have been a year of defeat.

Realists understand this, and want to continue the GOPs winning streak, by doubling down on winning tactics and passing legislation while they can. 

Trump is jeopardizing all that he has won with his maladministration of our country, and that will be his undoing. You do yourself a disservice to not realize that his political ineptitude is pissing off the true power brokers. He is far too incompetent to protect his flank and his rear at the same time. While he is out of town, bankers, oilmen and trust fund winners are quietly sharpening their knives. This won't be pretty or quick, but Trump's presidency will never be the same. He might be allowed to survive in the WH, but probably not. He's become a liability.

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Yeah, impeachment is a type of court, but it is a political court with a jury made up of Congressmen and Senators.

That court and jury can make trumped up charges and convict (with the understanding that there could be major political consequences for doing so), and it can also fail to indict even with egregious evidence of serious crimes, or nullify a guilty verdict with a Senate vote.

It's ultimately more a political judgment on the President and the political fallout of keeping an obviously incompetent or corrupt President in office versus the political cost of removing them.

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6 hours ago, phillysailor said:

TMSAIL: you seem to be counting on phrases like "lets see the emoluments charge fly in court" or "see if the charges stick." Sorry if these aren't perfect quotes, but the point is, impeachment doesn't have to be based on charges, or evidence factually proven to you or other citizens.

(and more good stuff)

Best summary I have read anywhere.  

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8 hours ago, phillysailor said:

TMSAIL: you seem to be counting on phrases like "lets see the emoluments charge fly in court" or "see if the charges stick." Sorry if these aren't perfect quotes, but the point is, impeachment doesn't have to be based on charges, or evidence factually proven to you or other citizens.

Impeachment is a political process, a blunt tool used to solve problems. One problem might be if the President is found guilty of a crime, such as obstruction of justice, or grabbing a pussy belonging to a woman who preferred it be left alone. Another might be if a public servant is found incapable or unwilling to serve.

But impeachment in this case is much more likely the realization by a majority of the Congress that the country would be better off with the process carried out. This is political calculus, and you've got to realize that the GOP is increasingly seen as out of touch with a sizable portion of America. Yes, they have stalwart support from a vocal minority, and that has secured wins across the board, but it is a house of cards that either ends with dictatorial rule, falling apart, or substantive change. Were it not for voter suppression laws, gerrymandering, a scarred and uninspiring opponent, and a populist surge that surprised everyone, this would have been a year of defeat.

Realists understand this, and want to continue the GOPs winning streak, by doubling down on winning tactics and passing legislation while they can. 

Trump is jeopardizing all that he has won with his maladministration of our country, and that will be his undoing. You do yourself a disservice to not realize that his political ineptitude is pissing off the true power brokers. He is far too incompetent to protect his flank and his rear at the same time. While he is out of town, bankers, oilmen and trust fund winners are quietly sharpening their knives. This won't be pretty or quick, but Trump's presidency will never be the same. He might be allowed to survive in the WH, but probably not. He's become a liability.

Uh ok. 

I'd submit that the reason Trump won is because the Dems are out of touch with a large portion of the country.   The decision to impeachment will not be by a majority of congress, but by the GOP.   Their political calculus will be - what price they will face if they remove the man their base voted for.  All the howling on the left and in the press doesn't mean a thing as long as his numbers stay high among HIS voters.  Last poll in April had 96% of his voters saying they would still vote for him. 

If that changes there could be movement by the GOP   If not don't hold your breath  

 

 

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TMSAIL: Are you paying attention while FOX "News" crumbles? 

The past few months have been a referendum on the staying power of that organization which markets a brand of infotainment & has warped the meaning of Conservativism while ruining informed, respectful political debate in America. Statues to white power in the south are being torn down, careers are being ended, and legs are staying crossed in FOX franchises across the nation. 

Just as purchased GOP pols try to deny climate science, you are attempting to deny the power of history and sociological change in America. Look around: we are getting browner and warmer by the minute. Claiming it isn't happening won't matter to society any more than the Ross Ice Shelf cares what Pruitt thinks. 

To defend your party by saying the Democrats don't speak for gun selling, methane emissions spewing Christian-rules-for-everyone mouthpieces who control powerful (but weakening) news organs doesn't make any of that ok. You are right, Democrats are more interested in minority rights, universal healthcare, climate protection, green energy and responsible fiscal policy and that is a platform which does empower the people. If ya gotta choose the side of big business and rent seekers, then you may well be on a winning side, but that doesn't make my opinions flawed. 2018 is a long year of investigations away, and seismic shifts can occur.

The propaganda machines used to be driving the bus, but more & more they will be TOLD what to say, since they are newly weakened from within. Hence, the real power brokers will regain control, and their brand of conservative thought is much more David Brooks than Bill O'Reilly or DTS Ailes. 

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1 minute ago, phillysailor said:

TMSAIL: Are you paying attention while FOX "News" crumbles? 

The past few months have been a referendum on the staying power of that organization which markets a brand of infotainment that has warped the meaning of Conservativism and ruined political debate in America. Statues to white power in the south are being torn down, careers are being ended, and legs are staying crossed in FOX franchises across the nation. 

Just as purchased GOP pols try to deny climate science, you are attempting to deny the power of history and sociological change in America. Look around: we are getting browner and warmer by the minute. Claiming it isn't happening won't matter to society any more than the Ross Ice Shelf cares what Pruitt thinks. 

To defend your party by saying the Democrats don't speak for gun selling, methane emissions spewing Christian-rules-for-everyone mouthpieces who control powerful (but weakening) news organs doesn't make any of that ok. You are right, Democrats are more interested in minority rights, universal healthcare, climate protection, green energy and responsible fiscal policy and that is a platform which does empower the people. If ya gotta choose the side of big business and rent seekers, then you may well be on a winning side, but that doesn't make my opinions flawed. 2018 is a long year of investigations away, and seismic shifts can occur.

The propaganda machines used to be driving the bus, but more & more they will be TOLD what to say, since they are newly weakened from within. Hence, the real power brokers will regain control, and their brand of conservative thought is much more David Brooks than Bill O'Reilly or DTS Ailes. 

WTF are you going on about?  I pointed out that any impeachment will go through the GOP. That is a fact.  

Now  you go off on some flower child tin foil hat rant about power brokers.   Be afraid be very afraid. 

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WTF am I going on about? Man, I LIKE that rant. That was basically my view of Ailes DTS... it's not just about you, dude. You are just a foil, a starting point. 

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15 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

WTF am I going on about? Man, I LIKE that rant. That was basically my view of Ailes DTS... it's not just about you, dude. You are just a foil, a starting point. 

Well next time don't start your rant with my name. 

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Well next time don't start your rant with my name. 

BWAHAHAHAHA! You, sir, are feeling especially pissy this morning. So sorry, snowflake!

Really, thanks much. Needed a good laugh.

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Are you on drugs?  

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No, I'm on a site called "Political Anarchy." Folks come here to engage in "political debate." What is your problem? You put opinions out there, and I engaged you on them. If you don't like the process, get off the site.  

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Ailes' casket was draped in an American flag.

Now, the flag code doesn't specifically prohibit such a bullshit maneuver.  But, it is bullshit.

And, note the comment from Ailes' son - “I want all the people who betrayed my father to know that I’m coming after them … and hell is coming with me.”

Putting the "fun" back in "Dysfunctional Family".

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How Ironic that on the day he is buried, Fox News is dropped to number three in the ratings behind MSNBC and Rachel Maddow. There's going to be a lot of spinning in that grave tonight.

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Came across this earlier, I think this paragraph summarizes why people should hate Aisles:

We are a hate-filled, paranoid, untrusting, book-dumb and bilious people whose chief source of recreation is slinging insults and threats at each other online, and we're that way in large part because of the hyper-divisive media environment he discovered.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-roger-ailes-was-one-of-the-worst-americans-ever-w483013

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He hired every pretty face he came across. 

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On 5/22/2017 at 0:07 AM, TMSAIL said:

Uh ok. 

I'd submit that the reason Trump won is because the Dems are out of touch with a large portion of the country.   The decision to impeachment will not be by a majority of congress, but by the GOP.   Their political calculus will be - what price they will face if they remove the man their base voted for.  All the howling on the left and in the press doesn't mean a thing as long as his numbers stay high among HIS voters.  Last poll in April had 96% of his voters saying they would still vote for him. 

If that changes there could be movement by the GOP   If not don't hold your breath  

 

 

So you argue then that systemic suppression of votes by Republicans and Russian influence had nothing to do with it?

Interesting.

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"For the first time in its history, MSNBC ranked number one in both total viewers and the key adults 25-54 demographic during primetime for a full week among the big three cable news networks, according to Nielsen data.

For the week of May 15, MSNBC averaged 2.44 million viewers with 611,000 in the key demo from 8 p.m.-11 p.m., beating out CNN and Fox News in both measures. In total day viewership for the week, CNN has ranked number one in cable news among adults 25-54 for six straight days (May 14-19), marking the network’s longest winning streak in that measure in six years. Fox News finished first in total viewers with 1.5 million and second in the demo with 321,000. MSNBC was second in total viewers with 1.2 million total viewers and third in the demo with 281,000. CNN finished third in total viewers with 1.05 million but first in the demo with 353,000.

 

 

 

In addition, Fox News ranked number three in primetime in the key demographic for five straight days with 497,000 viewers, the longest streak at number three the network has had in that measure in 17 years, since June 2000. CNN finished second in the demo with 588,000. Fox was second in total viewers, however, with 2.41 million, beating out CNN’s 1.65 million.

Four primetime MSNBC programs were number one for the week in total viewers in their respective time periods: “The Rachel Maddow Show,” “Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell”, “The 11th Hour” and the midnight re-air of “The Rachel Maddow Show.” Maddow had the top ranked non-sports program in all of cable for the week. On CNN, “Anderson Cooper 360” ranked number one in in the demo for five straight days at 8 p.m. This ties for the longest winning streak on record for the show in that timeslot."

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/msnbc-fox-news-ratings-cable-news-cnn-1202440320/

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Now that it's third in the ratings will it be considered MSM?

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24 minutes ago, Mike G said:

Now that it's third in the ratings will it be considered MSM?

It will be a debate, but one thing is for sure, no one thought that it would be Trump that would be responsible for making MSNBC great again.

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Did they do an autopsy on Ailes, or did they just figure that he died from an excess of bile?

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10 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

So you argue then that systemic suppression of votes by Republicans and Russian influence had nothing to do with it?

Interesting.

They certainly provide the left w/plausible deniability that the reason Mme Clinton lost wasn't that she wasn't a candidate who could beat Trump.  
W/R/T the "systemic voter suppression"  tell me, BJ - how many votes do you think that documented cases of such behavior (as of now - the only two I know of are the 2 minor NC districts).  I don't agree with gerrymandering - but, don't think that its impact was as large a factor as the way the DNC established the platform conducted the election. 

 

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11 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

So you argue then that systemic suppression of votes by Republicans and Russian influence had nothing to do with it?

Interesting.

I haven't heard about suppression of blue color, former Obama voters in OH, PA,WI, MI.  The voters that gave Trmp the win.   As to the Russians Has anyone denied that the emails leaked were false?  One thing the emails showed was there was suppression, all right suppression of Bernie Sanders.  

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50 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I haven't heard about suppression of blue color, former Obama voters in OH, PA,WI, MI.  The voters that gave Trmp the win.   As to the Russians Has anyone denied that the emails leaked were false?  One thing the emails showed was there was suppression, all right suppression of Bernie Sanders.  

Wisconsin voter suppression: https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/ there are other storys from at least PA and OH. 

keep lying for Trump TMSAIL.

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10 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Wisconsin voter suppression: https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/ there are other storys from at least PA and OH. 

With sources like this no wonder you believe the election was rigged

"Priorities USA is a progressive advocacy group and Super PAC that supported Clinton in 2016 and Barack Obama in 2012. The study was conducted by Civis Analytics, a data science firm founded by the chief analytics officer for Obama’s reelection campaign in 2012.?"

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1 minute ago, TMSAIL said:

With sources like this no wonder you believe the election was rigged

You are the asshole quoting Trump's own lies as proof Trump is doing no wrong.

 

Feel free to debate the numbers, or not.

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10 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You are the asshole quoting Trump's own lies as proof Trump is doing no wrong.

 

Feel free to debate the numbers, or not.

Numbers provided by a partisan source, a super PAC for Clinton no less.  They don't even provide a link for the data   

If that kind of suppression was going on where was Loretta Lynch and the DOJ?  Oh wait she was on a tarmac with Bill.  

Where those rules in place when Walker won the recount election?

Hillary never went to WI.  Obama was not on the ticket.   Anyone with half a brain knew that the African American turnout would never match 2008 or 2012. 

She took the blue color voters for granted and she lost.  

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26 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

You have completely lost your marbles to click bait bullshit. Russian spy now thats just over the top garbage.

Keep sticking up for the Republicans so they can fuck you harder, dipshit. Turd Breath who spewed clickbait memes during the election, what a fucking assclown.

TMSail - what could is data to someone like you who can't perform basic math operations on it?

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38 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

I'm all about the humor. You cats have fucking lost it

You are a joke, you aren't about the humor. You insult Demorats, fellate Republicans, then liek a good boomer asshole whine that they are screwing you.

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50 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Keep sticking up for the Republicans so they can fuck you harder, dipshit. Turd Breath who spewed clickbait memes during the election, what a fucking assclown.

TMSail - what could is data to someone like you who can't perform basic math operations on it?

I was a science/ math major No problem with basic math.    You on the other hand can't compose a sentence that makes sense.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

That's a lie.

Prove it 

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6 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Prove it 

You forgetting things like Trumpy now? Or is it just blocking out your fails.

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36 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You forgetting things like Trumpy now? Or is it just blocking out your fails.

Clearly you do not understand basic math.  

Original report a few dozen.   3100 x 1% = 31 

Perhaps you do not know the value of a dozen 

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10 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

I didn't know they had "Majors" in HS. Learn something new every day on SA.

My High School did. It was what they now call a magnet school.  Lane Tech Chicago, IL

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47 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

My High School did. It was what they now call a magnet school.  Lane Tech Chicago, IL

We called that V0TECH school...... For the kids who were a little slow, but had a chance at a manual labor job, given a little help.

For the kid who grew up in the apt. over the gas station garage that his father worked at it was a great opportunity... They also got him to stop gnawing his pencils, which gave him perpetually black lips and tongue.

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I guess you couldn't pass the admission test.  

When I went it was the only public High School in Chicago, that required testing to be admitted.  Had kids from all over the city apply and only those that passed and maintained their GPA were admitted  

Every other school was a neighborhood school attendance based on where you lived. 

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Lane Tech (formally known as Albert G. Lane Technical College Preparatory High School) is a public, four-year magnet high school that was founded in 1908 by Albert Grannis Lane, its former principal and superintendent.  Its notable alumni include former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich(who attended for only two years), former Cubs player and manager Phil Cavarretta, Olympic swimming gold medalist and actor Johnny Weissmuller, singer Frankie Laine, and John Podesta (who served as chief of staff for U.S. President Bill Clinton).

 

I need to dig out my year books depending on the two years he attended I might of had Blago as a classmate  

 
 

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31 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:
 

Lane Tech (formally known as Albert G. Lane Technical College Preparatory High School) is a public, four-year magnet high school that was founded in 1908 by Albert Grannis Lane, its former principal and superintendent.  Its notable alumni include former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich(who attended for only two years), former Cubs player and manager Phil Cavarretta, Olympic swimming gold medalist and actor Johnny Weissmuller, singer Frankie Laine, and John Podesta (who served as chief of staff for U.S. President Bill Clinton).

 

I need to dig out my year books depending on the two years he attended I might of had Blago as a classmate  

 
 

But not Podesta? That would have been more entertaining still.

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12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

But not Podesta? That would have been more entertaining still.

I was thinking Johnny Weissmuller..... But then I realized we weren't talking about Dabs, just TMS....

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And not to get back on topic, but...... Did anyone ever do an autopsy on Ailes? (Not that TMS's alternative education isn't fascinating)

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4 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Clearly you do not understand basic math.  

Original report a few dozen.   3100 x 1% = 31 

Perhaps you do not know the value of a dozen 

So, I'm supposed to give you a pass for using partisan sources after you excoriated me for just the same.

choke on a chorizo

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41 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

But not Podesta? That would have been more entertaining still.

Nope, but I did look up his age to check the possibility. 

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25 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

So, I'm supposed to give you a pass for using partisan sources after you excoriated me for just the same.

choke on a chorizo

Heard it on my local NBC affiliate 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dozens-notre-dame-students-walk-out-pence-commencement-speech-n762681

the Fox story was posted by MIKE G talk to him about using "partisan" sources 

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Looks even the huffington Post called it dozens

http://newsvader.com/id/17254135514

By the way I don't believe BL provided a source for his numbers.  Some of us trust posters to have  integrity.  Others we know simply like to stir the pot against people with opposing views.  

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I don't trust you to have integrity TMSail. Anyone toeing the current Republican party line (note: not conservatives!) has proven themselves without integrity

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8 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Looks even the huffington Post called it dozens

http://newsvader.com/id/17254135514

By the way I don't believe BL provided a source for his numbers.  Some of us trust posters to have  integrity.  Others we know simply like to stir the pot against people with opposing views.  

So easily discoverable if you exert a little effort. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/mike-pence-notre-dame-speech/

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5 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

So easily discoverable if you exert a little effort. http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/mike-pence-notre-dame-speech/

I trusted you numbers.  Now that I did a search.  The only ones claiming that number are the organizers   No reason for them to exaggerate  LOL  

The estimate  from the university was about 100

i doubt they were off by 50%

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I trusted you numbers.  Now that I did a search.  The only ones claiming that number are the organizers   No reason for them to exaggerate  LOL  

The estimate  from the university was about 100

i doubt they were off by 50%

 

 

 

What number of walkouts would you need to see to label this a "Box Office" success?

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

What number of walkouts would you need to see to label this a "Box Office" success?

I forgot accurate estimates only apply to those of us on the right.   

I do like how you are channeling my Australian stalker.   Baaa 

 

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26 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I trusted you numbers.  Now that I did a search.  The only ones claiming that number are the organizers   No reason for them to exaggerate  LOL  

The estimate  from the university was about 100

i doubt they were off by 50%

 

 

 

What Bus Driver said....

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18 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I forgot accurate estimates only apply to those of us on the right.   

I do like how you are channeling my Australian stalker.   Baaa 

 

Oh, a joke about Australians and sheep. 

What are you, 12 years old?

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Meanwhile..... I thought this thread was about a dead guy, not who has the best poll numbers...... Was there ever an autopsy?

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Never mind..... "Bleeding on the brain" is the cause of death according to the autopsy.....

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Many people are saying Trump had Ailes taken out.

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1 hour ago, saxdog said:

Many people are saying Trump had Ailes taken out.

Too much competition in the pussy-grabbing department?

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On 5/19/2017 at 6:16 PM, B.J. Porter said:

Do you think that maybe the fact that you people put a fucking Russian spy in the White House, who pals around with Nazis and White Supremacists who write speeches for , may contribute to this? That we are witnessing unparalleled levels of corruption, nepotism, influence peddling and flat out grabbing of taxpayer resources at a scope never seen before?

This is the first time we have had an incompetent, traitorous buffoon in there.

This shit started BEFORE the election (Manafort) and has continued through the transition right up to the minute.

This has fuck-all to do with "fairness" and everything to do with the unqualified asshole you people sold our country out to.

Shall we look at the candidate that LOST to him.

WTF were the Ds thinking? You could have fielded a candidate

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On 5/20/2017 at 11:55 AM, B.J. Porter said:

Hey you want to make shit up about me and call me a bigot, they you can fuck yourself. 

You havent been very welcoming or inclusive lately.

 

Im just saying

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15 hours ago, Moderate said:

Shall we look at the candidate that LOST to him.

WTF were the Ds thinking? You could have fielded a candidate

Hillary was vilified for more than a decade by the FOX News crack team, back when they were in full misogyny flower. Back when Roger was at the top of his game, Bill O was groping starlets yearning to read the news, and Rupert was chortling in the background. This selfsame network is still peddling made up news about the Seth Rich death, after it has been shown to be willful misreporting. 

Please recall. She testified for 11 hours, and gave as good as she got. Never took the fifth, as Trump's appointees are already choosing to do! Never found guilty of anything. Apologized for problems with email security which do not compare to fucking TELLING SECRETS TO SOVIET SPIES IN THE OVAL OFFICE. You are trying to compare Mt Rushmore to a ballpark bobble head giveaway.

That she was flawed is without question. Could she have run a better campaign? Obviously. But she WON the popular vote and that fact alone crushes your pathetic attempt to paint her as a non viable candidate. 

Please try again. But, please try harder, and remember those pesky facts get in the way of weak arguments.

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^^| Hillary Clinton== Rushmore?  More like the sand in my shoes. Bobblehead Trump is a pretty good analogy. 

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I still have dibs on the widow, right?

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53 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Hillary was vilified for more than a decade by the FOX News crack team, back when they were in full misogyny flower. Back when Roger was at the top of his game, Bill O was groping starlets yearning to read the news, and Rupert was chortling in the background. This selfsame network is still peddling made up news about the Seth Rich death, after it has been shown to be willful misreporting. 

Please recall. She testified for 11 hours, and gave as good as she got. Never took the fifth, as Trump's appointees are already choosing to do! Never found guilty of anything. Apologized for problems with email security which do not compare to fucking TELLING SECRETS TO SOVIET SPIES IN THE OVAL OFFICE. You are trying to compare Mt Rushmore to a ballpark bobble head giveaway.

That she was flawed is without question. Could she have run a better campaign? Obviously. But she WON the popular vote and that fact alone crushes your pathetic attempt to paint her as a non viable candidate. 

Please try again. But, please try harder, and remember those pesky facts get in the way of weak arguments.

The most important fact  is the number 304

all else is spilled milk and TDS  

 

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

The most important fact  is the number 304

all else is spilled milk and TDS  

 

Tru Dat

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36 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

The most important fact  is the number 304

all else is spilled milk and TDS  

 

 

16 hours ago, Moderate said:

Shall we look at the candidate that LOST to him.

WTF were the Ds thinking? You could have fielded a candidate

TMSAIL: You are arguing a different point, so you can win the argument with yourself. Congratulations!

And no, understanding why Hillary lost is useful. Not only because Dems can avoid similar mistakes in the future, but also Republicans can see what comes of gerrymandering, vote suppression, vilification of opposition leaders, and listening/repeating/reveling in false news. People go to pizza shops with guns, decent leaders have their careers ruined, and you install incompetent buffoons in the white house. 

Furthermore, it seems that the Russians had the motive, the means, and the opportunity to fuck with our electoral system. You were the victim of their efforts, as were we all. Doesn't it bug you that opponent foreign powers are cheering your views? In fact, many of the ideas you think your own were propagated by mouthpieces serving the Russian Bear. Too bad your patriotism has been supplanted by love of party and willful ignorance of the damage done to American democratic institutions by shrill mouthpieces spewing hate. People have served and died in service against the Soviet empire, against the KBG and FSB. Your orange God whispers state secrets in their ears and you cheer him on. 

You sir, are a traitor. You betray American ideals of democracy, fair play, truth, and you disgrace my flag. I'm glad that patriots like Obama, Brennan, Sanders and Comey stand up for truth. I'm glad that Mayor Landrieu speaks for African Americans and others disgusted by symbols of oppression and violent rebellion against our nation. I'm glad Senator Warren fights the powerful banking system, which seemingly works to enslave our citizens. I'm glad Judge Thomas voted against disenfranchising blacks. They are all much, much better men and patriots than you. I cannot forget Hillary Clinton, who worked diligently as Sec State and as a Senator, & who dwarfs your meager intellectual and moral abilities.

Please, TMSAIL, learn once again what it means to be a proud American. You have lost your way.

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............ And this has what to do with Roger Ailes?

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2 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

............ And this has what to do with Roger Ailes?

Who's Roger Ailes? ;-)

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Who's Roger Ailes? ;-)

Ginger's brother.

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Who's Roger Ailes? ;-)

The dead guy the thread's about.

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

............ And this has what to do with Roger Ailes?

..."Too bad your patriotism has been supplanted by love of party and willful ignorance of the damage done to American democratic institutions by shrill mouthpieces spewing hate."

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56 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Ginger's brother.

Ginger lives matter

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6 hours ago, phillysailor said:

 

TMSAIL: You are arguing a different point, so you can win the argument with yourself. Congratulations!

And no, understanding why Hillary lost is useful. Not only because Dems can avoid similar mistakes in the future, but also Republicans can see what comes of gerrymandering, vote suppression, vilification of opposition leaders, and listening/repeating/reveling in false news. People go to pizza shops with guns, decent leaders have their careers ruined, and you install incompetent buffoons in the white house. 

Furthermore, it seems that the Russians had the motive, the means, and the opportunity to fuck with our electoral system. You were the victim of their efforts, as were we all. Doesn't it bug you that opponent foreign powers are cheering your views? In fact, many of the ideas you think your own were propagated by mouthpieces serving the Russian Bear. Too bad your patriotism has been supplanted by love of party and willful ignorance of the damage done to American democratic institutions by shrill mouthpieces spewing hate. People have served and died in service against the Soviet empire, against the KBG and FSB. Your orange God whispers state secrets in their ears and you cheer him on. 

You sir, are a traitor. You betray American ideals of democracy, fair play, truth, and you disgrace my flag. I'm glad that patriots like Obama, Brennan, Sanders and Comey stand up for truth. I'm glad that Mayor Landrieu speaks for African Americans and others disgusted by symbols of oppression and violent rebellion against our nation. I'm glad Senator Warren fights the powerful banking system, which seemingly works to enslave our citizens. I'm glad Judge Thomas voted against disenfranchising blacks. They are all much, much better men and patriots than you. I cannot forget Hillary Clinton, who worked diligently as Sec State and as a Senator, & who dwarfs your meager intellectual and moral abilities.

Please, TMSAIL, learn once again what it means to be a proud American. You have lost your way.

Don't you please me you piece of shit. 

I have had disagreements with many people over the years.   I have never ever thought they were traitors to this country because of their political leanings.  I've thrown out insults and poorly thought out remarks in the heat of debate, but not you.   You write a long thoughtful post that deliberately and intentionally singled me out for the harshest insult imaginable.   A traitor to my country. 

I love my country!  How dare you tell anyone they are traitors based on a vote.  That is how democracy works.   You don't like the person that won.  You don't like the policies the right stand for.  That is your right.   You talk about your flag, well fuck you it is not just your flag it is my flag and BJ's flag and Jeff's flag and every other American that lives on this country. You want to blame me for the situation you believe is so terrible, well here is a clue I have voted in every election local, state and national since I turned 18.   l have voted for the candidate that I felt was the best person for the job AT THE TIME OF MY VOTE.   Because I live in IL I have voted for many more democrats than republicans including BILL CLINTON in 1996.   The person who has received the majority of my votes is the African American Secretary of State Jessie White   You want to vent your anger vent at those that never bother to vote.   That are more interested in the vote for Surviver than the candidates running for office.   Get mad at the African Americans that turned out for a man of color then didn't turn out for Hillary.   You complain about voter surpression I reply where there is a will there is a way.  If I'm out of town I submit an absentee ballot.   There is a mail box available to everyone.   I have no doubt that BJ makes damn sure that his vote is counted from the other side of the world. 

One more point

NO ONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP EXPECTED THEIR VOTE TO TEAR APART THE COUNTRY.  

You are a well spoken articulate poster.  Too bad your well thought out post shows you to be one of the biggest dicks to grace this site.   

You are now below AkaGP and trust me I never thought anyone could go under his special brand of slime.   

 

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20 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Don't you please me you piece of shit. 

I have had disagreements with many people over the years.   I have never ever thought they were traitors to this country because of their political leanings.  I've thrown out insults and poorly thought out remarks in the heat of debate, but not you.   You write a long thoughtful post that deliberately and intentionally singled me out for the harshest insult imaginable.   A traitor to my country. 

I love my country!  How dare you tell anyone they are traitors based on a vote.  That is how democracy works.   You don't like the person that won.  You don't like the policies the right stand for.  That is your right.   You talk about your flag, well fuck you it is not just your flag it is my flag and BJ's flag and Jeff's flag and every other American that lives on this country. You want to blame me for the situation you believe is so terrible, well here is a clue I have voted in every election local, state and national since I turned 18.   l have voted for the candidate that I felt was the best person for the job AT THE TIME OF MY VOTE.   Because I live in IL I have voted for many more democrats than republicans including BILL CLINTON in 1996.   The person who has received the majority of my votes is the African American Secretary of State Jessie White   You want to vent your anger vent at those that never bother to vote.   That are more interested in the vote for Surviver than the candidates running for office.   Get mad at the African Americans that turned out for a man of color then didn't turn out for Hillary.   You complain about voter surpression I reply where there is a will there is a way.  If I'm out of town I submit an absentee ballot.   There is a mail box available to everyone.   I have no doubt that BJ makes damn sure that his vote is counted from the other side of the world. 

One more point

NO ONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP EXPECTED THEIR VOTE TO TEAR APART THE COUNTRY.  

You are a well spoken articulate poster.  Too bad your well thought out post shows you to be one of the biggest dicks to grace this site.   

You are now below AkaGP and trust me I never thought anyone could go under his special brand of slime.   

 

Uh huh. You love your country.

I think you love what your country can do for you.

You continue to support a man who divulges secrets to the Russians. Disgusts us with his words, deeds, business ethics, lack of knowledge & nepotism. He accepts emoluments from foreign powers and refuses to adhere to accepted ethical practices that have been honored by all modern presidents. He is both lease holder and renter of our national property. Payments to that hotel ... occasionally whole floors for weeks at a time from foreign powers... go straight into his pockets, and he won't divulge a thing, just as he won't disclose the names of lobbyists needing his special permission to lead our government. 

He appoints amateurs to high office, celebrates those who would destroy the purpose of the institutions that have been set up by members of both parties at great legislative effort and having achieved towering success. Just look at the Los Angeles skyline... and then remember the smog of the 1985. He demands loyalty to him above loyalty to the law. He was only elected as the result of decades of frivolous hearings, strange FBI machinations, voter suppression in several states and national gerrymandering.

And your party, seeking, above all else, to give the rich a tax break by stripping healthcare from millions of average Americans. Thousands of families will be bankrupted by disease, parents will be forced to choose between feeding their kids and getting the medicine they need. Food stamps will be slashed, so the working poor will be the working hungry poor, unless you see Wal*Mart suddenly increasing their wages out of pity. Fat chance. The Waltons will be cashing the tax rebates and investing them in for-profit schools which will gradually replace public schools. And they will be free to keep out the black kids, the lesbians & the freaks because Betty De Vos (insecure cousin of Cruella?) says its ok to discriminate.

Your people will strip these families of affordable healthcare all the while blaming the "imploding ACA" that never had a chance to work properly because bipartisan cooperation didn't extend to negotiating as a united front against Big Pharma and insurance behemoths. In fact, at every turn Obamacare was assaulted under every legal pretext (most found unconstitutional), and every political trick was pulled, at great cost to citizens of red states & to the stability of the insurance market.

You whine that I exclude you, but are blind to the impulses that move the GOP to cripple, with glee, all the many ways the US government seeks to give all citizens an opportunity for success. You dress it up with "assistance only keeps them in chains" and such crap, but never speak about the ways public works, infrastructure, mass transit and high quality public education can free people from those chains. The GOP denies that their healthcare legislation is yet another way to crush families they don't care about. Deny that money spent on major infrastructure projects put citizens to work. Argue instead that more money should be awarded to the 1% so they can "make jobs". 

The war on science, on truth, on voting rights, on the sociological changes that are inevitably going to change our country all speak to a party with no moral basis for leadership. Denying the global climate change that truly requires a national effort to enable our country to withstand the coming century. Defunding the institutions which could help protect us against the next pandemic. Creating the circumstances for rebellion with every helping push to the wage gap. Enriching the aristocracy at the direct expense of the citizenry. Contemptible ethics. Betraying secrets to foreign powers in the oval office.

I'm sorry, I see all this as betraying the goals and ideals of America. I think you personally benefit from these policies; I think you benefit from white supremacy, can afford healthcare, don't need mass transit and are cool with black men shooting black men as long as it doesn't spread to the 'burbs. You wrap yourself in the flag, but don't give a shit about 60% of the population. Inclusion to you means membership in a yacht club.

TMSAIL, if I wanted to level "the harshest insult" on you, I would have said you were contemptible. I would have said you were a bad husband or father. Instead, I just think that having achieved the American Dream, you are now rent seeking. A true patriot would want more & more Americans to achieve success, and argue for the people and policies which could create that. The GOP has no such platform, no shared vision for American progress. You have no such vision, for you would rather see others suffer so that you might remain comfortable. This is betraying the idea of America. You do not believe in America, at least not the one I learned about in civics classes and history books.

Go ahead & burn the flag, pal, it's only as unpatriotic as everything else your party wants and is tolerating in our president. You demean American patriotism by claiming to embody it.

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10 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Uh huh. You love your country.

I think you love what your country can do for you.

you would rather see others suffer so that you might remain comfortable..

You do not believe in America,

Go ahead & burn the flag, pal, it's only as unpatriotic as everything else your party wants and is tolerating in our president. You demean American patriotism by claiming to embody it.

this is what you think of tmsail?

you are pathetic

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17 minutes ago, hermetic said:
10 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Uh huh. You love your country.

I think you love what your country can do for you.

you would rather see others suffer so that you might remain comfortable..

You do not believe in America,

Go ahead & burn the flag, pal, it's only as unpatriotic as everything else your party wants and is tolerating in our president. You demean American patriotism by claiming to embody it.

this is what you think of tmsail?

you are pathetic

It's awful hard to wind back saying something like that in real time.

Is there a reason the leftie people here are so nasty?

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10 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Uh huh. You love your country.

I think you love what your country can do for you.

You continue to support a man who divulges secrets to the Russians. Disgusts us with his words, deeds, business ethics, lack of knowledge & nepotism. He accepts emoluments from foreign powers and refuses to adhere to accepted ethical practices that have been honored by all modern presidents. He is both lease holder and renter of our national property. Payments to that hotel ... occasionally whole floors for weeks at a time from foreign powers... go straight into his pockets, and he won't divulge a thing, just as he won't disclose the names of lobbyists needing his special permission to lead our government. 

He appoints amateurs to high office, celebrates those who would destroy the purpose of the institutions that have been set up by members of both parties at great legislative effort and having achieved towering success. Just look at the Los Angeles skyline... and then remember the smog of the 1985. He demands loyalty to him above loyalty to the law. He was only elected as the result of decades of frivolous hearings, strange FBI machinations, voter suppression in several states and national gerrymandering.

And your party, seeking, above all else, to give the rich a tax break by stripping healthcare from millions of average Americans. Thousands of families will be bankrupted by disease, parents will be forced to choose between feeding their kids and getting the medicine they need. Food stamps will be slashed, so the working poor will be the working hungry poor, unless you see Wal*Mart suddenly increasing their wages out of pity. Fat chance. The Waltons will be cashing the tax rebates and investing them in for-profit schools which will gradually replace public schools. And they will be free to keep out the black kids, the lesbians & the freaks because Betty De Vos (insecure cousin of Cruella?) says its ok to discriminate.

Your people will strip these families of affordable healthcare all the while blaming the "imploding ACA" that never had a chance to work properly because bipartisan cooperation didn't extend to negotiating as a united front against Big Pharma and insurance behemoths. In fact, at every turn Obamacare was assaulted under every legal pretext (most found unconstitutional), and every political trick was pulled, at great cost to citizens of red states & to the stability of the insurance market.

You whine that I exclude you, but are blind to the impulses that move the GOP to cripple, with glee, all the many ways the US government seeks to give all citizens an opportunity for success. You dress it up with "assistance only keeps them in chains" and such crap, but never speak about the ways public works, infrastructure, mass transit and high quality public education can free people from those chains. The GOP denies that their healthcare legislation is yet another way to crush families they don't care about. Deny that money spent on major infrastructure projects put citizens to work. Argue instead that more money should be awarded to the 1% so they can "make jobs". 

The war on science, on truth, on voting rights, on the sociological changes that are inevitably going to change our country all speak to a party with no moral basis for leadership. Denying the global climate change that truly requires a national effort to enable our country to withstand the coming century. Defunding the institutions which could help protect us against the next pandemic. Creating the circumstances for rebellion with every helping push to the wage gap. Enriching the aristocracy at the direct expense of the citizenry. Contemptible ethics. Betraying secrets to foreign powers in the oval office.

I'm sorry, I see all this as betraying the goals and ideals of America. I think you personally benefit from these policies; I think you benefit from white supremacy, can afford healthcare, don't need mass transit and are cool with black men shooting black men as long as it doesn't spread to the 'burbs. You wrap yourself in the flag, but don't give a shit about 60% of the population. Inclusion to you means membership in a yacht club.

TMSAIL, if I wanted to level "the harshest insult" on you, I would have said you were contemptible. I would have said you were a bad husband or father. Instead, I just think that having achieved the American Dream, you are now rent seeking. A true patriot would want more & more Americans to achieve success, and argue for the people and policies which could create that. The GOP has no such platform, no shared vision for American progress. You have no such vision, for you would rather see others suffer so that you might remain comfortable. This is betraying the idea of America. You do not believe in America, at least not the one I learned about in civics classes and history books.

Go ahead & burn the flag, pal, it's only as unpatriotic as everything else your party wants and is tolerating in our president. You demean American patriotism by claiming to embody it.

Epic rant!  But you are getting into a battle of wits with somebody that is unarmed. TM is a simple party-bot.  He doesn't really think about who to vote for or consequences of his vote.  

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6 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

Epic rant!  But you are getting into a battle of wits with somebody that is unarmed. TM is a simple party-bot.  He doesn't really think about who to vote for or consequences of his vote.  

I think you underestimate TM, who is a loyalist to The Party, but a principled loyalist. 

Re Ailes, his legacy will live on, with each incident like the one in Montana, where Good Americans demonstrate their knowledge that America's real enemies are within our borders disguised as the press and/or democRATS. 

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5 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I think you underestimate TM, who is a loyalist to The Party, but a principled loyalist. 

True, he's never met a sexual predator without D by their name he can't defend.

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I think I'm overextended on this one, and am being way unfair to TMSAIL. I've been thinking about my rant, and have realized it is misplaced.

I do owe him an apology. And I'll work on one, send it PM. Publicly, I'd like to back away from addressing this assault at him. That these thoughts have been boiling away in me and I vented my spleen at him was unfair, and a mark against my character. I will strive to do better in the future. 

Sorry guys, my fingers got excited, and I forgot that the folks I spar with are real on the other side of the thread. We are all Americans, I am a shit if I do this crap without striving for better. 

 

Enjoy your Memorial Day Weekend TMSAIL, and my respects to all who served.

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

I think I'm overextended on this one, and am being way unfair to TMSAIL. I've been thinking about my rant, and have realized it is misplaced.

I do owe him an apology. And I'll work on one, send it PM. Publicly, I'd like to back away from addressing this assault at him. That these thoughts have been boiling away in me and I vented my spleen at him was unfair, and a mark against my character. I will strive to do better in the future. 

Sorry guys, my fingers got excited, and I forgot that the folks I spar with are real on the other side of the thread. We are all Americans, I am a shit if I do this crap without striving for better. 

 

Enjoy your Memorial Day Weekend TMSAIL, and my respects to all who served.

As I said in the pm. I've been on the other side no worries and thanks for the public apology.  

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I know I have gotten bent out of shape before, I imagine most have at one time or another. Glad to see this put to rest - I get most annoyed with TM sometimes but never lose respect for him.  This place would be really boring if we all agreed on everything.

Still someone am looking forward to having a beer with.

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NO ONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP EXPECTED THEIR VOTE TO TEAR APART THE COUNTRY.  

Granted, many that voted for Trump probably thought "he didn't mean it, when he said it"

And on some issues, they'd be right.

Unfortunately, your system seems to have no easy redress to the "accidental" election of a leader that judging by ALL polls, the populace is disgusted with 100 days in.

It you'd "accidentally" elected a Pinochet..would you continue to support him just because he was elected?

Calling you a traitor is tough and unwarranted, but tell me..at what point does someone who continues to support a traitor to the values of your country, become a traitor to those values themselves? 

PS I'm using "you" and "your" in a collective sense not personal :)

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

NO ONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP EXPECTED THEIR VOTE TO TEAR APART THE COUNTRY.  

Bullshit.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

NO ONE THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP EXPECTED THEIR VOTE TO TEAR APART THE COUNTRY.  

Some people were hoping for something like that.

"Burn this bitch down." (actual quote)

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Those who voted for trump want to tear down what America is and replace it with a fantasy state they think America was.

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