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davesimon

Surface to Air: Artemis Racing film by Altair

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Hi,

Full disclosure:  I work for Altair with the title of VP - Corporate Communications.  We are a technical supplier to Artemis Racing, and just released a 12-minute film about their program and use of simulation to achieve performance.  Film is here:  http://www.designthedifference.com/

No claims of groundbreaking content for sailors immersed in the sport, definitely an interesting watch.

Thanks,

Dave

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Yes, posted in the Artemis thread too and at several sailing magazine sites. Beautiful video.

Altair published several 'Preview' pieces, is this video the culmination or are there more? Great producer you have, good title too.

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This is the culmination for the Artemis work....we may do other films with other (non-sailing) clients in the future.  Thanks for noting the production quality...the guys worked hard at it.

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Thank you for the link: very interesting and informative video. Down-to-earth and articulate presentation by Percy and key team members. Good luck...

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Great video, and thanks for sharing.  Artemis come across as a great bunch of guys and they clearly are in this to win it.  Of course I hope ETNZ win, but if there were another winner, many would be delighted for it to be Artemis for their sportsmanship, dedication and their history in this event. 

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Great Video, the team look focused and determined...should be a great LV qualifier series!

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1 hour ago, aucklander said:

Great video, and thanks for sharing.  Artemis come across as a great bunch of guys and they clearly are in this to win it.  Of course I hope ETNZ win, but if there were another winner, many would be delighted for it to be Artemis for their sportsmanship, dedication and their history in this event. 

I agree. Artemis are definitely a bunch of good guys. My only reservation with truly getting behind them(besides being a die hard ETNZ fan) is that they signed that very un-AC agreement, so even if they do win, everyone still has to play in larry's little circle jerk. That drops them down several hundred notches in my book. 

Sorry, but it's the AC FFS!

you want this continuity shit, go play in GC 32's in the extreme sailing circle jerk. 

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A little harsh but we get your point. B)  And agree with it.  Lovely vid but questionable targeting under the circumstances.

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Awesome video would love to have that Walker Potts looking over my shoulder. Very good at what he does from all reports notwithstanding his military background. Great to see an insight into the people behind the scenes. 

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Well done on the short film. Unusual,  in a good way, to see such a high quality production on Sailing. Best of luck to Artemis, they seem to have been the quiet achievers this Cup cycle and look forebodingly fast.. 

 

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Great video, gets me excited for the cup... and I say that as a Bay Area resident who unplugged once the cup wasn't going to be defended here.

By the way, is Nathan Outteridge's name misspelled in the credits at 11:42? Or is that a nickname?

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Maybe someone can explain to me what IP was saying at 9.00.

In no wind and 12 knts current ART could go up the Amazon.

1. Yes with 12 knots current, ART could foil

2. But where do they get the thrust in no wind?

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29 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Maybe someone can explain to me what IP was saying at 9.00.

In no wind and 12 knts current ART could go up the Amazon.

1. Yes with 12 knots current, ART could foil

2. But where do they get the thrust in no wind?

Not possible

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Barnby and Jaysper ... It's apparent wind...  aim your vessel across the current... generate apparent wind and away you go ... Cheers, AL.

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14 minutes ago, Apparent Lee said:

Barnby and Jaysper ... It's apparent wind...  aim your vessel across the current... generate apparent wind and away you go ... Cheers, AL.

ah!

Got it.

 

 

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Not possible

Your right I don't think what he's saying is possible. You could maybe foil in The direction of the current at double it's speed. And I'm absolutely positive this is what he meant to say. Nice video for sure tho. 

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RD .. with respect, an AC 50  with 12 knots of apparent wind  will exceed 25 knots of boat speed ... therefore with 12 knots current will generate 13 knots speed over ground ...Ian Percy knows way more about this than I or you and again ... with respect you are wrong. AL

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2 minutes ago, Apparent Lee said:

RD .. with respect, an AC 50  with 12 knots of apparent wind  will exceed 25 knots of boat speed ... therefore with 12 knots current will generate 13 knots speed over ground ...Ian Percy knows way more about this than I or you and again ... with respect you are wrong. AL

 How do they generate the apparent wind to start with? You can get the boat moving port or starboard using the current but it will still be moving backwards (ie same direction as the current) meaning it will be receiving apparent wind from behind which is fine. But once it starts going forward the apparent wind will drop to zero presumably enough to stall the boat.

Or am I barking up a totally wrong tree here?

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Jaysper you are not barking up the wrong tree at all, however consider Ian Percy's proposition which is I grant is improbable. Take an AC 50 head to current  in zero wind and allow it to float down a perfect river flowing at 12 knots... it goes "backwards" at 12 knots. Turn the bugger at an angle to the flow, the boat will not continue to flow with the river as it has drag / resistance. At this point apparent wind will start to build and slowly begin to flow from the front of the wingsail to the back.. on an AC 50 this happens pretty quickly and given a short amount of time it will be sailing in 6 to 8 knots of apparent at which point it breaks out and foils you can't stop it from happening... then take boat speed say 25 knots subtract current say 12 knots... speed over ground upstream is 13 knots... now lets go down stream... point boat in direction of current, 12 knots, zero wind speed... imagine no drag stupid I know... now tell me what happens?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Apparent Lee said:

Jaysper you are not barking up the wrong tree at all, however consider Ian Percy's proposition which is I grant is improbable. Take an AC 50 head to current  in zero wind and allow it to float down a perfect river flowing at 12 knots... it goes "backwards" at 12 knots. Turn the bugger at an angle to the flow, the boat will not continue to flow with the river as it has drag / resistance. At this point apparent wind will start to build and slowly begin to flow from the front of the wingsail to the back.. on an AC 50 this happens pretty quickly and given a short amount of time it will be sailing in 6 to 8 knots of apparent at which point it breaks out and foils you can't stop it from happening... then take boat speed say 25 knots subtract current say 12 knots... speed over ground upstream is 13 knots... now lets go down stream... point boat in direction of current, 12 knots, zero wind speed... imagine no drag stupid I know... now tell me what happens?

 

 

 

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So SA friends I'm still waiting... I know that you know, I know the answer... so give in yet?

 

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I ran a few numbers making some pretty large assumptions. I have to admit now i think it may be possible to go against the current maybe 1 to 5 kts. Amazing.

AL of course going with the current with no drag you will eventually do light speed.

I'm shocked that this might be possible and would love to see it. What cool machines. I stand corrected from my previous post

.

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Hey RD ... cool, what I like  is not that it is posssible, it's that it's impossible not to ... and down stream I am not sure I agree ... in 12 knots of current the underwater foils have no flow travelling the same speed as the current... no lift. And if the wind is zero, and the current is 12 knots, accelerate the vessel up to 12 knots of current, the apparent is 12 knots, force or thrust = 0 ... sailors know that we can't sail directly into the wind, and if we sail directly with the wind we are like a balloon we can only travel the same speed as the wind - drag... it's all about the angles my friend...  thus my avatar ...Apparent Lee

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Great production value on display in that video, whoever payed for it should be very happy. These 'boats' are really fascinating but that it always comes down to the same thing, boat handling, "...If you touch the water once, you're likely not going to win that race..." is what brings it all back to 'sailing,' for me.

 

Also, AL of course going with the current with no drag you will eventually do light speed. - see? these things are just so damn cool. light speed. How do we get them up into space?

 

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Nice video, but a little dark and heavy at times.

 

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I think a few of the earlier posts made the sailing in a current explanation a little more complicated than it has to be:

From the point of view of the guys on the boat, being in a 12 knot current (let's say it's flowing west to east) with no wind is exactly the same as being in no current with a 12 knot east wind.  If they don't look at the shore they can't tell the difference:  They can't tell whether current is carrying them through the air or wind is blowing the air past them.  It makes no difference.  So if their boat can sail twice wind speed (vmg) downwind, they can sail west at 24 knots relative to the water.  Since the water is moving east at 12 knots, that means they're going west at 12 knots over ground.

If they want to go downstream, it's the same as if they were sailing against a 12 knot east wind.  If they can sail upwind (vmg) at the same speed as the true wind, they can sail east at 12 knots relative to the water.  Add in the current and they're going east at 24 knots over ground.

In either case, of course, they have to tack (or gybe).  They can't head directly upwind (with the current) and if they head directly downwind (against the current) they won't be able to sail any faster than the wind, and they'll end up losing ground.

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