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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
jared

Pittwater or Sydney to Coffs race 2018 who's the host club in the southern nsw

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Who's the host club for the 2018 Coffs Harbour race, with news making more club racer oriented could be good news. So what's the goss

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NCYC are dreaming.  Royal Prince Alfred Yacht Club has been and will always be behind a go north race in the New Year...jared you are now in the running for the most nonsensical post  of the year award....post more shit like this one and you may even nudge ahead of Brent Swain as a odds on favourite.

 

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RPAYC is doing a Pittwater Southport Race as they did last year.

No Sydney Coffs Race.

A great shame!

 

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Supposedly no insurance on marina until height of breakwall increased.

 

Maybe if Coff's made the same contribution to the cost and organization of the race as Southport, RPA might go back there.

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17 hours ago, Rawhide said:

Supposedly no insurance on marina until height of breakwall increased.

 

Maybe if Coff's made the same contribution to the cost and organization of the race as Southport, RPA might go back there.

Fair to say that the Coffs end of the race had been a bit hit and miss in recent editions, sad really as it's a lovely family place to visit at thta time of year.  Sailing around the Solitaries is fun too.  I do hope something can be worked out with another club as it's a benefit to Coffs and they do try do make it work their end with limited resources.

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The obvious outcome is for Coffs Habour Yacht Club to run the race.  Put up all the money and take all the risk, after all it is that club that reaps the benefit with all the sailors spending big in the clubhouse after the race.

CHYC could hire a start boat and gear, set up the safety procedures, check safety certs, administer the entries, monitor the whole fleet until they have all finished, organise the prize-giving, purchase prizes etc, etc.  Ofcourse they won't because they don't have the skills and finances, they just want the money at the end of the race.

 

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On 25/05/2017 at 10:32 PM, jack_sparrow said:

NCYC are dreaming.  Royal Prince Alfred Yacht Club has been and will always be behind a go north race in the New Year...jared you are now in the running for the most nonsensical post  of the year award....post more shit like this one and you may even nudge ahead of Brent Swain as a odds on favourite.

 

Well there you go hey...

https://www.royalmotor.com.au/

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RMYC have a pretty solid core of multihull sailors.  Here is a big opportunity for them to turn up.

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does that mean that there will be 2 races going north the same week?

Surely not!!!!

I could understand 2 races using the same start line and a waypoint/finish at coffs but not 2 races.

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9 hours ago, DtM said:

RMYC have a pretty solid core of multihull sailors.  Here is a big opportunity for them to turn up.

yup -- the multihullers have been bitching from the sidelines -- now's the time to step up and lobby for a multi division in a SE Aus offshore race.

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RPA has had multies in coffs race last few years. Pretty ordinary turnout.

You would be forgiven for not noticing.

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Not so sure about the dates of the two races north. Seems a bit clashy to me. 

I'd probably lean towards RMYC race as they have supported a multi racing fleet over the last 1/4 century. Mind you, RPA, amongst others, have always welcomed multis in various races including Coffs/Southport. 

I think making the destination attractive would definitely go along way in attracting (both multihull and mono) numbers. 

Basically, a big friggin fun family friendly party at the Coffs end. 

I haven't seen the state of Coffs lately but some certainty about berthing arrangements would help. Is it still busted?

Maybe not being treated like ostracised outcast second rate citizens by some narrow minded mono gits could help us multis.

Hammo welcomes multis with open arms and open legs and look at the positive response. 

Race organisers usually say "we need a fleet" so we can make a multi seperate division  Honestly, I cannot get my head around the seperate class bullshit that still pervades.  

There is not one logical argument in practice or in phs pointscore that supports seperating boats of different stability systems. Keels, water tanks, manual swing keels (mind you, motors continuously or stored powered systems running keels etc seems a bit rich for a sailing sport) cat, tri, what fucking ever- they're all boats.

I've had so many great close races (v monos) on the water and on phs over the years in races. 

seems just nuts to divide or exclude.

 What next? Only fair skinned, blue eyed, straight, male Christians can enter? 

Phs is simple for one in all in, and sure, seperate classes within the fleet makes sense. IRU, OMR, IMS   etc. whatevs. 

But I'm not going to pretend that there's a massive fleet of offshore multis in NSW just chomping at the bit. Why aren't there more?  

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Changing the start date to 27th is a good move as is making it Cat 3+. Should make it a lot more attractive for less regular offshore racers. Bleeding money each year might cause issues for RMYC though. 

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On ‎2‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 6:09 PM, LionIsland said:

But I'm not going to pretend that there's a massive fleet of offshore multis in NSW just chomping at the bit. Why aren't there more?  

Steve,

That really is the question. With it being category 3 will that help get some who are sitting on the fence to race or is it that there are really only a very few who want to race any distance offshore in any event?

I have a strong suspicion that it is the later.

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On 2017-7-2 at 6:09 PM, LionIsland said:

 

Maybe not being treated like ostracised outcast second rate citizens by some narrow minded mono gits could help us multis.

Hammo welcomes multis with open arms and open legs and look at the positive response. 

Race organisers usually say "we need a fleet" so we can make a multi seperate division  Honestly, I cannot get my head around the seperate class bullshit that still pervades.  

There is not one logical argument in practice or in phs pointscore that supports seperating boats of different stability systems. Keels, water tanks, manual swing keels (mind you, motors continuously or stored powered systems running keels etc seems a bit rich for a sailing sport) cat, tri, what fucking ever- they're all boats.

I've had so many great close races (v monos) on the water and on phs over the years in races. 

seems just nuts to divide or exclude.

 What next? Only fair skinned, blue eyed, straight, male Christians can enter? 

Phs is simple for one in all in, and sure, seperate classes within the fleet makes sense. IRU, OMR, IMS   etc. whatevs. 

But I'm not going to pretend that there's a massive fleet of offshore multis in NSW just chomping at the bit. Why aren't there more?  

Sorry but that is a complete load of bollocks that makes me ashamed to be a multi sailor. It's the sort of stuff that made me stop sailing offshore multis. To say that having a mono-only race is like being racist is a disgusting slur on sailors, and it's no wonder they don't want people with that sort of attitude in the races they run.

There is no discrimination in not allowing multis to race. It is just what happens to just about every other form of sporting equipment in the world.Just about every event excludes some sort of equipment that could possibly compete, for a whole raft of good reasons.

We all love going to cat regattas and having an event just for cats. Other people love going to kite regattas and having events just for kites. Just about every group likes having some specialist events - so why can't monos do the same without people complaining?  If you're happy when multi sailors (or Ford owners, or wooden boat owners, or Hobie owners) have a specialist event then it's discrimination against monos to whine when they have a specialist event.

Multis exclude other types themselves. You can't sail a kitesurfer at the Forster catamaran regatta. You can't take a windsurfer to the Darren Lowder Memorial. You can't take a J/24 to the Australian multihull championships. You can't take a F18 to the 14 Foot cat regattas. Offshore multihull sailors exclude lots of boats. Some of them won't let proas compete. Others ban boats under certain length limits. Some of them let in open D Class cats but not Tornadoes. It is just illogical and hypocritical for multi sailors to keep monos out but then whinge when monos keep them out. 

What you are also ignoring is that about half of the offshore mono clubs in NSW and Australia have allowed multis to race, and not once have the offshore multis supported them. This has been going on for decades, and it still hasn't stopped the whining. 

Why aren't there more offshore multis in NSW? Perhaps its because some of the tiny number who do it come out with this sort of abuse of race organisers?  Perhaps its because some of us who used to race offshore, and couldn't get more than one other multi to come out and play, are ashamed of the hypocritical and abusve attitude of other multi sailors towards mono sailors.

 

 

 

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Gee Jay. Most of you're arguments have lost me.

Question: Why should it be, if it is, a mono only race? 

Answer: Because....?

It's not a"specialist" monohull race is it? Or did I miss something? 

If one is running a race and not allowing certain types of boats based on their shape (or other reasons) that by definition is discriminating. Those ones in, those ones out. 

Somehow you're comparing one make/ one design races and regattas with a race that might be, or hopefully is, or should be especially since it's gonna be run by a club with Multihulls,  open to all yachts that comply to the relevant SR regs. 

I'd be glad if they accept multihull entries but like I said I don't get why you'd need a fleet (not sure what number that is) to accept any. What difference does it make if there's one or two (likely) or 10 (less likely). Can't see CYCA rejecting Sydney 38's in the Hobart if there's only one or two and in that case they would be included like any other yacht. Or I can't see a Weta being rejected from say a Foster regatta if there's only one. 

And it should be noted, monos are most welcome to sail in the RMYC Multihull Division managed Saturday pointscore races. They will be treated fairly on handicap as Top Yacht doesn't distinguish between different shapes of boats it handicaps and scores on performance.

Its not rocket surgery. 

Also, when you have had mono sailors at point blank range say "we don't like Multihulls" one isn't imagining discrimination. But that's their narrow minded prerogative. And I know there's nice people and dickheads sailing all styles of boats. 

I repeat, for a race like that as far as I can see whether mono, cat, tri whatevs, they're all just boats. One in all in I reckon. Some slow and comfy, some fast and spartan, some old, new, long, cheap, expensive, short and everything in between. I really don't think the activity of sailing can afford to exclude unnecessarily. 

My rant finished. 

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I didn't say that Newport-Coffs should be a mono-only race. I reacted to your slinging shit at anyone who wants races just for mixed fleets of monos.

NONE of the events I listed are "one make/one design regattas", but I don't see you complaining about them because you seem to be Ok with multis having their own race. All those events allow multis but not monos. It's hypocrisy to complain when monos have specialist events but not to complain when multis or anyone else does it. 

Do you sling shit at the windsurfers when they run races just for windsurfers and not for Seawinds or skiffs? Do you get pissed off motorcycle racers don't let cars into motorcycling events?  Do you reckon kitesurfers can't hold kite regattas without inviting everyone else too?

If you don't complain when other types of gear are excluded from other events, why do you complain when mono sailors do exactly the same thing? The "discrimination" here comes from the people who don't complain when other sporting events have gear restrictions, but do when monos do it just like everyone else does.

I've done offshore racing where they race multis and monos. It sucked. Even a medium speed tri is too different in performance from a medium-speed mono of similar age. If the conditions were right for us and we sailed badly we'd do well. If the conditions were bad and we sailed well, we'd get beaten. The difference in speed according to the conditions was far, far greater than there is between monos of different design. It's vastly different to putting a Sydney 38 up against a Beneteau or Love and War.

Okay, some mono sailors are dickheads. You probably know the sort of shit that multi sailors throw at monos - I reckon it's worse and it happens even when multis are welcomed to race with monos. Look at the abuse some people have been slinging at mono fans on SA in the last couple of days. Look at the insults you threw around in your own post at a bunch of people who do exactly what small-cat sailors, windsurfers, kitesurfers and everyone else in sailing does.

Every other form of human behaviour seems to have specialist events. There are specialist events for different sorts of painting, different sorts of dog, different sorts of music, different sorts of cars, different sorts of bikes, different sorts of cooking. It's normal human behaviour to get into a group and celebrate just one type of object, whether it's having a race just for multis or just for monos, or an event just for street machines. Why bitch at one group that just does what everyone else does?

 

PS - If you wonder why I'm pissed off, it's partly because I don't like hypocritical abuse of volunteer race committees, and partly because this whinge has been going on for 50 years and it's never done anything to help multihull sailing.

 

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Hey Lion,

 

one of the genuine issues to exclude multi's is often the lack of suitable berthing space at the other end.

Multi's should take up the Lord Howe race -- its perfect and has died due to lack of enough deep water anchorage.

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Now that is a good idea.

But there are simply not enough ocean going multis that are interested.  Look at the record of entries into races that have invited them.

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email sent to RPAYC members today:-

Quote

Members may be aware of the recent press release by the Royal Motor Yacht Club Broken Bay announcing that they will run an offshore race to Coffs Harbour on 27 December 2017.

For many years Coffs Harbour has proved a difficult destination for the popular first ocean race of the year with strong competition from holiday makers making it operationally challenging to accommodate vessels at the marina and crews when they arrive in Coffs. 

The limited facilities and assistance that the Coffs Harbour Yacht Club is able to provide also meant that The RPAYC expended additional resources on managing arrivals and land arrangements in Coffs Harbour.  The devastating storms of June 2016 left us with little choice but to move the race to a Southport finish in January 2017.

It is our belief that the condition of the marina at Coffs Harbour still remains in a sub-standard state and the support that the CHYC is able to offer remains a risk in sending a larger quality ocean racing fleet to Coffs again in 2017/18 and after healthy deliberation the decision was taken to run another successful Pittwater to Paradise event on 2 January but with the option to consider a return to a Coffs Race at an alternative time of the year.

On receiving the news that our colleagues at the RMYC were intending to run the race on 27 December, Commodore Ian Audsley and Vice Commodore Michael Lockley sought a meeting with their counterparts and on Monday met with RMYC Commodore Chris Lee and Vice Commodore David Rogers of RMYC to express their concerns that this decision is not in the best interests of the sport and would likely diminish the fleet size for both races.  The RMYC decision was based on the desire to accommodate their smaller cruising boats for such a race, with requests for that timing coming from the CHYC and the preference of the sponsor to run the race at this time.

It is the RPAYC view that it is in the best interests of the sport and sailors that the clubs on Pittwater unite and work together on combined clubs racing rather than to compete.  In an effort to foster this view, The RPAYC had initiated conversations with RMYC regarding combined clubs Women’s and Blue Water Sailing.  Knowing that RMYC were in discussions with Coffs Harbour Yacht Club our Club had advised that we would support their event by including it in our Blue Water Series if it was held at a suitable alternative time of the year.  Similar discussions had been taking place with CHYC.

RMYC/CHYC have made the decision to put their event in direct competition with our Pittwater to Paradise event on 2 January and it is disappointing that these clubs have not been able to work with us on a more cohesive strategy in this instance, particularly in light of the support (personnel and assets) that our Club has provided to RMYC and CHYC over many years.

I would like to assure all our members and competitors that The RPAYC and Southport Yacht Clubs are totally committed to running another successful Pittwater to Paradise Regatta of the highest standard in all respects of race management, safety and hospitality both in Newport and Southport and hope that Members will support the investment in the Pittwater to Paradise Regatta.
 
Ian Audsley
Commodore                       

Michael Lockley
Vice Commodore
 
July 2017

 

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Instead of "competing" against each other why can't the clubs combine energies and have one start say on the 2nd and a finish line off Coffs for those who want to sail to there only and the full length racers carrying on to Southport.

plenty of other sports events have long and short courses. 

The only bit I cant work out is can full coursers go through the Coffs finish line to get a Coffs result and carry on to Southport? I would say "why not?"

And can intending full coursers simply finish at Coffs if they want?  I would say "why not?". I'm sure Coffs harbour could handle a couple of extra boats if they had intended to go all the way but pull the pin at Coffs instead of carrying on to Southport.

advantages:

1) clubs can work together by pooling resources and cooperating 

2) more boats on one start line,

3) should increase the total number competing 

4) provides a stepping stone opportunity for inexperienced boats to learn the ropes of offshore racing eg boat prep, crew prep etc without spending too long out there as well as attracting boats who simply don't want to sail too far or don't have the time to sail all the way or are allergic to Qld. 

5) provides a safety net for intending full coursers if the conditions are yukky or their boat or crew is having issues reducing pressure to carry on when stopping is prudent.  

Seems like a reasonable solution to me. Opinions on this sought.  

 

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Seems reasonable, but the big difference between the two races is the start date.  The Coffs race start is on the 27th December and the Southport race Is 2nd January.  This is the biggest point of difference with the two races.  Crews find it easier to get time off between Christmas and New Year but not later when most businesses are back in full swing when the Southport race is on.

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Spot on, with the start on the 27th there's even a chance you could do the race, have a drink in Coffs, deliver the boat back south and be home & hosed in time for New Year's eve. In my line of work Southport isn't an option and I spew everyday about having missed this year's race (boat i race on cleaned up)

Coffs now being back on the 27th gives me the opportunity to do the race and be back without having to beg for additional leave during the new year period.

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11 hours ago, LionIsland said:

Instead of "competing" against each other why can't the clubs combine energies and have one start say on the 2nd and a finish line off Coffs for those who want to sail to there only and the full length racers carrying on to Southport.

plenty of other sports events have long and short courses. 

The only bit I cant work out is can full coursers go through the Coffs finish line to get a Coffs result and carry on to Southport? I would say "why not?"

And can intending full coursers simply finish at Coffs if they want?  I would say "why not?". I'm sure Coffs harbour could handle a couple of extra boats if they had intended to go all the way but pull the pin at Coffs instead of carrying on to Southport.

advantages:

1) clubs can work together by pooling resources and cooperating 

2) more boats on one start line,

3) should increase the total number competing 

4) provides a stepping stone opportunity for inexperienced boats to learn the ropes of offshore racing eg boat prep, crew prep etc without spending too long out there as well as attracting boats who simply don't want to sail too far or don't have the time to sail all the way or are allergic to Qld. 

5) provides a safety net for intending full coursers if the conditions are yukky or their boat or crew is having issues reducing pressure to carry on when stopping is prudent.  

Seems like a reasonable solution to me. Opinions on this sought.  

 

All makes complete and logical sense if you aren't a yacht club that has just done a deal with another yacht club, in which case it makes no sense at all.

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In '06, the C.Y.C.A. ran a race to Mooloolaba, that also went onto Mackay, the boats in the Mackay race, crossed the finish line off Mooloolaba and kept going to Mackay.

I think that race(s), only happened once, but it has been tried. Big difference in distances 486n.m. v 930n.m.

 

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On 7/15/2017 at 10:53 AM, DickDastardly said:

All makes complete and logical sense if you aren't a yacht club that has just done a deal with another yacht club, in which case it makes no sense at all.

Problem is two races are sponsored by rival insurance companies.

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Why is that interesting.

I can sail up the coast with a lot less than Cat 3 if I am not in a race!

 

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59 minutes ago, lydia said:

Why is that interesting.

I can sail up the coast with a lot less than Cat 3 if I am not in a race!

 

Have you got nav lights on your S38?

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You can't that.

Sailing Arsehats will have to step in and stop it.

 

And more entries, we can't have common people sailing in races, we need to make it more expensive, right!

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I agree - dial back on the number of those silly SSSC's and just make funeral insurance for each crew 'highly recommended'. 

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Yes that's right...all that extra extra gear is a surefire guarantee there won't be any need for Funeral Insurance. The most dangerous part of any yacht racing,including  round the cans, is driving to the boat. Maybe the rules could include picking up crews in APC's

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1 hour ago, armchairadmiral said:

Yes that's right...all that extra extra gear is a surefire guarantee there won't be any need for Funeral Insurance. 

If you had bothered to read my post I was talking about crew training not safety equipment. Not everyone has the benefit of knowing everything like you. 

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I agree - dial back on the number of those silly SSSC's and just make funeral insurance for each crew 'highly recommended'. 

would your family get a refund if you are lost at sea?

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2 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

A refund for what?  Race entry fees? Or they could simply fight over the financial remains.  Maybe they also need lawyers insurance

Funeral insurance...

Reminds me of one of my annoyances of living in Sweden. Every year I was paying on my tax a burial fee and my thought was that their not burying me there over my dead body. I'd bet they wouldn't contribute to being shipped home.

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8 monos entered for Coffs and 17 for Southport. Fucking ridiculous these two clubs couldn't sort this out so as not to split the fleet. 

And only 1 multi going to Coffs, pretty poor from a club with a respectable multi fleet. 

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Looking at the southport entries there’s at least 3 boats that are on the entry list that have been put there to make it look like more boats are going though, at least RMYC have actual entries and don’t have to lie about it. 

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On 7/15/2017 at 7:37 AM, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Spot on, with the start on the 27th there's even a chance you could do the race, have a drink in Coffs, deliver the boat back south and be home & hosed in time for New Year's eve. In my line of work Southport isn't an option and I spew everyday about having missed this year's race (boat i race on cleaned up)

Coffs now being back on the 27th gives me the opportunity to do the race and be back without having to beg for additional leave during the new year period.

I get what you're saying GF, and it's a good point.

A start date of the 27th kills it for me as I'd have to either take the boat down prior to Xmas, or miss Xmas day with the family. And I confess to liking Xmas day at home with the kids and Boxing day being devoted to watching the S2H.

A start date of the the 2nd is logistically a lot easier for me to manage, this could be just me though. 

Is there any out of state entrants in the Coffs race? 

SB

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/4/2017 at 6:24 PM, hoppy said:

would your family get a refund if you are lost at sea?

Reminds me of that story about the guy who died when he got his dick severed when caught it in a winch. He bleed out and they had to bury him at sea.

The family didn't get any compensation but they did get to keep the tip. 

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10 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Reminds me of that story about the guy who died when he got his dick severed when caught it in a winch. He bleed out and they had to bury him at sea.

The family didn't get any compensation but they did get to keep the tip. 

so he wasn't circumsized when he signed on for the sail?

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