zillafreak

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'll give you that downwind but upwind they have issues.

We'll see 

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Nah, French beating BAR but being beaten by SBTJ... Where soes this leave BAR?

In a very bad place!

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Etnz owned the circle also.  So should been able to sail their preferred course.  Wide rounding at this mark are the norm

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2 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

In a very bad place!

I keep seeing the aberdeen ads and thinking that they are making themselves look very bad.

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ETNZ had gybed to port when the call was made...P/S crossing had already cleared for AR before NZ gybed over..

 

umpired called P/S infraction....don't see it.

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Just now, Happie Jack said:

So if GTF are out do you choose Bar or JPN as your soft compeditor, for the finals?

BAR. I think any time will feel like they probably beat Japan, but Japan are better than BAR.

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So ETNZ and Oracle finish top of the pack on 4 points. BAR on 3, Artemis on 2. Ridiculous that BAR have had less wins than Artemis and the French, but are higher on the table! If not for the 2 points they got from the meaningless ACWS they'd potentially be looking at going home first. 

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9 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

AR_ETNZ_1.thumb.JPG.00cab6e92961fde4b971162ebfb7035c.JPGAR_ETNZ_2.thumb.JPG.58f668a813dab1b90714385fd6690c30.JPGAR_ETNZ_3.thumb.JPG.3c5e5a36586f1d5c6b5dadcef9a3d49c.JPGAR_ETNZ_4.thumb.JPG.048f753e12edc14e5ffb118a880bfae5.JPGAR_ETNZ_5.thumb.JPG.464e4b4ddcbd7260957f25b391593b07.JPGAR_ETNZ_6.thumb.JPG.b81abaa4f201e8f90e42b8733795eada.JPG

Thanks Stinger, good demo of what I've said in a new thread I posted...can you put those pictures in there as well. Cheers Stinger!

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Its amazing how ETNZ can seemingly be slower than their opposition speed wise, as they looked to be against Softbank, BAR and Artemis but still pull off the wins. 

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That was pure BS against Artemis.  NZL tried to get down to them while on starboard and could not.  By the time their jib and wing jibed Artemis was going to clear.  

another way to look at it - Burling pressed deep to get to them and then when he couldn't and needed to jibe he was wide of the mark and claimed a lack of room to maneuver.  You can't have it both ways.

  SWE should have that win on their score card.  

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5 minutes ago, Qman said:

Etnz owned the circle also.  So should been able to sail their preferred course.  Wide rounding at this mark are the norm

umpire called port/starbord, wasn't about room at the mark....looked to me that AR passed clear ahead before NZ gybed to the mark

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Just now, sclarke said:

Its amazing how ETNZ can seemingly be slower than their opposition speed wise, as they looked to be against Softbank, BAR and Artemis but still pull off the wins. 

Seems like they are in a higher mode, and going slower.

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Dumb question, ETNZ was set up to actually round the other gate mark they were never going to even try that harder turn except to try and get a penalty.  I have never had experience with that with gates.  Also, how far past the mark can ETNZ go hunting?  

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2 minutes ago, easyrider said:

That was pure BS against Artemis.

When the angst has settled down the umpires have not yet been shown to have made a mistake in this series.

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2 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

First race tomorrow should be good...

Rematch

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11 minutes ago, Qman said:

Etnz owned the circle also.  So should been able to sail their preferred course.  Wide rounding at this mark are the norm

Related to my other dumb question, Etnz's "preferred course" was to the other gate, he was in the circle hunting.  

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4 minutes ago, hbsurfer said:

Dumb question, ETNZ was set up to actually round the other gate mark they were never going to even try that harder turn except to try and get a penalty.  I have never had experience with that with gates.  Also, how far past the mark can ETNZ go hunting?  

 

It was the last mark. The other gate is just there for the other roundings. It is not part of that rounding. Artemis was either not far enough ahead or not ahead. Clearly they had overlap and were on starboard and on the inside when they entered the circle.

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1 minute ago, hbsurfer said:

Related to my other dumb question, Etnz's "preferred course" was to the other gate, he was in the circle hunting.  

The other gate is not in play for that rounding. It's just not a mark at that time.

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1 minute ago, nroose said:

It was the last mark. The other gate is just there for the other roundings. It is not part of that rounding. Artemis was either not far enough ahead or not ahead. Clearly they had overlap and were on starboard and on the inside when they entered the circle.

Haven't seen a replay, but sounds like a pretty similar position that ETNZ got pinged for the other day?

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let me repeat...the infraction was port/starboard...not room..that's what I heard the umpire call

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Haven't seen a replay, but sounds like a pretty similar position that ETNZ got pinged for the other day?

You mean avoided by giving room?

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1 minute ago, nroose said:

The other gate is not in play for that rounding. It's just not a mark at that time.

thanks.  

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Just now, DayTripper said:

You mean avoided by giving room?

Well yes, but it seems the penalty was ok that day, but not ok today?

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4 minutes ago, yikes said:

let me repeat...the infraction was port/starboard...not room

Which is not to say that room could not also apply.

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8 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

When the angst has settled down the umpires have not yet been shown to have made a mistake in this series.

Well, since you appear to know all, explain the P/S infraction. Feel free to markup some screenshots to show it.

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Just now, sclarke said:

Well yes, but it seems the penalty was ok that day, but not ok today?

You've got me, I can't recall a penalty at a mark awarded against ETNZ. What race?

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2 minutes ago, yikes said:

let me repeat...the infraction was port/starboard...not room

If it involves a rounding mark and a 3 boat length circle, it always involves room

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3 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

Well, since you appear to know all, explain the P/S infraction. Feel free to markup some screenshots to show it.

thats the point....there was no P/S....NZ had already gybed to the mark....the call was wrong.  AR got screwed

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1 minute ago, bpm57 said:

Well, since you appear to know all, explain the P/S infraction.

I'd do better explaining your butt hurt.

 

Your butt is hurting.

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Just now, DayTripper said:

You've got me, I can't recall a penalty at a mark awarded against ETNZ. What race?

Sorry, incident, yes, ETNZ avoided but let Oracle in giving up a lead

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Just now, sclarke said:

If it involves a rounding mark and a 3 boat length circle, it always involves room

I think the argument that they crash gybed to avoid a P/S collision is what some people are missing. How often do you see ETNZ gybe that poorly. And to whoever said its a pity the race was decided by a penalty.... Welcome to match racing. 

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Just now, DayTripper said:

I'd do better explaining your butt hurt.

 

Your butt is hurting.

So given a chance to show the judges are perfect, you resort to insults. Ah well, why should anyone expect anything different from a NZ fan.

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6 minutes ago, yikes said:

let me repeat...the infraction was port/starboard...not room..that's what I heard the umpire call

Think we all heard that, but agree that port/starboard doesn't make any sense, so maybe it was a mark-room call and the umpire said the wrong thing on the broadcast.

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Just now, Flags said:

I think the argument that they crash gybed to avoid a P/S collision is what some people are missing. How often do you see ETNZ gybe that poorly. And to whoever said its a pity the race was decided by a penalty.... Welcome to match racing. 

yes i think that is what the umpire ruled...that NZ had to crash gybe to avoid P/S....

 

i don't agree with that....looked to me like AR cleared on port

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2 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

So given a chance to show the judges are perfect, you resort to insults. Ah well, why should anyone expect anything different from a NZ fan.

Your butt is hurting very badly. It will ease as the angst subsides.

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Just now, yikes said:

yes i think that is what the umpire ruled...that NZ had to crash gybe to avoid P/S....

 

i don't agree with that....looked to me like AR cleared on port

Sure you might not, but the umpire has the benefit of some very funky software animation with predictive apths etc. So I think we defer to him :)

 

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1 minute ago, yikes said:

yes i think that is what the umpire ruled...that NZ had to crash gybe to avoid P/S....

 

i don't agree with that....looked to me like AR cleared on port

+1 on the P/S but given that they were doing 30+ kts may be the umpire think that sufficient room has to be given.

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7 minutes ago, Flags said:

I think the argument that they crash gybed to avoid a P/S collision is what some people are missing. How often do you see ETNZ gybe that poorly. And to whoever said its a pity the race was decided by a penalty.... Welcome to match racing. 

I can't imagine they wouldn't have wanted to gybe inside and keep Artemis on their leeward hip in their wash on the final reach.  I think they got spooked crashed gybed and then decided to throw a flag.  It was close enough that the umps had to give a penalty.  I think TNZ got to cover up a choke with a late penalty flag.

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6 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Sorry, incident, yes, ETNZ avoided but let Oracle in giving up a lead

Absolutely, and thereby did not receive a penalty, as opposed to Artemis today.

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6 minutes ago, Flags said:

I think the argument that they crash gybed to avoid a P/S collision is what some people are missing. How often do you see ETNZ gybe that poorly. And to whoever said its a pity the race was decided by a penalty.... Welcome to match racing. 

 

+1

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Just now, DayTripper said:

Absolutely, and thereby did not receive a penalty, as opposed to Artemis today.

Yes, correct. Oracle fans were quick to say ETNZ was in the wrong that day. But now the incident plays out the opposite way, and Team NZ is still in the wrong. Can't win with some people.

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1 minute ago, sbalcomb said:

I can't imagine they wouldn't have wanted to gybe inside and keep Artemis on their leeward hip in their wash on the final reach.  I think they got spoked crashed gybed and then decided to through a flag.  It was close enough that the umps had to give a penalty.  I think TNZ got to cover up a choke with a late penalty flag.

my view of it was that AR cleared on port, while NZ was hunting them on starbord...when they saw the AR was going to make it by, they continued into a gybe at the mark....

 

and after yesterday, i believe the umpires don't like close calls, so they gave NZ a gift

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9 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

I can't imagine they wouldn't have wanted to gybe inside and keep Artemis on their leeward hip in their wash on the final reach.  I think they got spooked crashed gybed and then decided to throw a flag.  It was close enough that the umps had to give a penalty.  I think TNZ got to cover up a choke with a late penalty flag.

Spooked :)

 

 

Yeah Right.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

It's a disgrace that such a great Race by ART and ETNZ is decided by a Penalty. Thumpsdown.

Remember there were 2 Penalties by Art today!

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I assume that the graphics superimposed on the water are not definative.  I suggest they not be used as evidence one way or the other. They are there simply to make it easier for the viewing public to understand the fundamentals of the rules.  It seems to me that Ian Percy took the very safe strategy  at this mark. They went wide with speed rather than trying to win the race for the circle which would have forced ETNZ to take their tansom. This would have put two catamarans going 35 knots within 3 lengths of each other on a collision course.  They conceded the  "No Room" gambit in favor of being one gybe ahead and making ETNZ pull a perfect gybe to compete. They expected that carrying their speed would give them the win, and if not were in position to luff and otherwise block ETNZ. 

I  do not believe that Burling could have gotten a piece of Artemis on the port starboard. They were clearly hunting, and bearing away as if to round the mark. Artemis was clear, and having done chosen the prudent tactic that could win them the race without risking a foul, should have been rewarded with (at the very least) the benefit of a doubt.  If I was a suspicious bastard, I would suspect New Zealand deliberately botched the gybe in order to draw a penalty.  Kiwi's legendary sportsmanship and sense of fair play would not permit them to take a dive to gain an advantage.  So I couldn't possibly suggest such a thing.

SHC

 

 

 

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Wow! What did you think of that race?
A huge win for Emirates Team New Zealand after getting a last minute penalty on Artemis Racing for not giving room at the final mark!
Peter Burling: “We were just turning the boat as hard as we could and I think we were pretty lucky not to end up on our side. On these boats when you are coming in at 40 knots you need a little more room than that.”

Image may contain: ocean, boat, sky, mountain, outdoor, water and nature
 
 

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Apologies if this has been discussed already, but are white transoms a new (safety) requirement?

 

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2 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

I assume that the graphics superimposed on the water are not definative.  I suggest they not be used as evidence one way or the other. They are there simply to make it easier for the viewing public to understand the fundamentals of the rules.  It seems to me that Ian Percy took the very safe strategy  at this mark. They went wide with speed rather than trying to win the race for the circle which would have forced ETNZ to take their tansom. This would have put two catamarans going 35 knots within 3 lengths of each other on a collision course.  They conceded the  "No Room" gambit in favor of being one gybe ahead and making ETNZ pull a perfect gybe to compete. They expected that carrying their speed would give them the win, and if not were in position to luff and otherwise block ETNZ. 

I  do not believe that Burling could have gotten a piece of Artemis on the port starboard. They were clearly hunting, and bearing away as if to round the mark. Artemis was clear, and having done chosen the prudent tactic that could win them the race without risking a foul, should have been rewarded with (at the very least) the benefit of a doubt.  If I was a suspicious bastard, I would suspect New Zealand deliberately botched the gybe in order to draw a penalty.  Kiwi's legendary sportsmanship and sense of fair play would not permit them to take a dive to gain an advantage.  So I couldn't possibly suggest such a thing.

SHC

 

 

 

good summary of the action....pretty much as I saw it also...I think AR was clear before NZ gybed...

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

I assume that the graphics superimposed on the water are not definative.  I suggest they not be used as evidence one way or the other. They are there simply to make it easier for the viewing public to understand the fundamentals of the rules.  It seems to me that Ian Percy took the very safe strategy  at this mark. They went wide with speed rather than trying to win the race for the circle which would have forced ETNZ to take their tansom. This would have put two catamarans going 35 knots within 3 lengths of each other on a collision course.  They conceded the  "No Room" gambit in favor of being one gybe ahead and making ETNZ pull a perfect gybe to compete. They expected that carrying their speed would give them the win, and if not were in position to luff and otherwise block ETNZ. 

I  do not believe that Burling could have gotten a piece of Artemis on the port starboard. They were clearly hunting, and bearing away as if to round the mark. Artemis was clear, and having done chosen the prudent tactic that could win them the race without risking a foul, should have been rewarded with (at the very least) the benefit of a doubt.  If I was a suspicious bastard, I would suspect New Zealand deliberately botched the gybe in order to draw a penalty.  Kiwi's legendary sportsmanship and sense of fair play would not permit them to take a dive to gain an advantage.  So I couldn't possibly suggest such a thing.

SHC

 

 

 

Good court/jury room stuff steve-

Burling slowed because he knew a broken boat would be a problem (for both teams).  We can blame Sir Ben for making everyone gun-shy.

 

steve-I think you know a thing or two about broken gear/wings/boats.

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1 hour ago, jawjaw said:

Ironically that penalty could benefit Artemis, if it means ETNZ finish ahead of Oracle and so Oracle don't get the AC bonus. Artemis and ETNZ aren't going to finish bottom, and almost certainly aren't going to pick the other in the playoffs, so the only benefit to finishing ahead of the other is the right to choose which lesser team they face - and do they really care all that much?

 

Possibly, but imagine a scenario where the forecast for the semis is light but building for the finals.  I realize long-term forecasts in a place like Bermuda are unreliable, but if you're the Kiwis what do you do then?  Artemis look like a different team in the stronger stuff and will be very difficult to beat in a series that has consistently strong breeze.

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14 minutes ago, ezyb said:

Possibly, but imagine a scenario where the forecast for the semis is light but building for the finals.  I realize long-term forecasts in a place like Bermuda are unreliable, but if you're the Kiwis what do you do then?  Artemis look like a different team in the stronger stuff and will be very difficult to beat in a series that has consistently strong breeze.

Some salty words from the Swedes on their penalty <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11865877>, but Franck is back! Still think BAR will qualify last. Back to the hammock ’till tomorrow…

35th America's Cup Day 3 RR1 05.29.2017  © ACEA 2017.png

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1 hour ago, nroose said:

Seems like they are in a higher mode, and going slower.

On a narrow course you would right? In a percentage of races that will equate to one less tack. 

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^ true if you say 4 wins, and don't pay attention to the previous bonus points.

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Is the other gate really out of the course at that point. Couldent you head for the other gate and tack around it, i dont know why you would, but would it be legal?

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1 hour ago, Flags said:

I think the argument that they crash gybed to avoid a P/S collision is what some people are missing. How often do you see ETNZ gybe that poorly. And to whoever said its a pity the race was decided by a penalty.... Welcome to match racing. 

+100

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32 minutes ago, nroose said:

^ true if you say 4 wins, and don't pay attention to the previous bonus points.

Both of which are perfectly reasonable things to do, of course. However, there's quite a lot riding on the official points tally here, no?

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8 minutes ago, Manfred said:

+100

Agreed. That post gibe hull lift/ squirrel is a hint what could happen with insufficient room and erring on the side of safety.

IMO, NO could have gone wider and still smoked TNZ. Mistake. Too intent on get-foot-on-throat.

Good umpire call & wake up to avoid carnage.

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29 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Is the other gate really out of the course at that point. Couldent you head for the other gate and tack around it, i dont know why you would, but would it be legal?

Sailing instructions allow for 4 possible scenarios for the last mark/gate before the reach to the finish.

Windward Gate ---> Finish

Leeward Gate ---> Finish

Mid Course (port) ---> Finish

Mid Course (stbd) ---> Finish

 

So it can be a gate or a mark depending on the course chosen for the race

 

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDo3MWQ1ZjgxYThhNjY2NDRh

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Yes, correct. Oracle fans were quick to say ETNZ was in the wrong that day. But now the incident plays out the opposite way, and Team NZ is still in the wrong. Can't win with some people.

Nice try pumpkin. We aren't effected by the result. Your boys got a freebie. 

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2 minutes ago, Passinwind said:

Both of which are perfectly reasonable things to do, of course. However, there's quite a lot riding on the official points tally here, no?

So, one RR down. One to go. So the bonus points will not keep accumulating, but the points from wins will.

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8 minutes ago, nroose said:

So, one RR down. One to go. So the bonus points will not keep accumulating, but the points from wins will.

So are the races in the 2nd RR worth more points as in previous cups or still 1 a piece?

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2 hours ago, hbsurfer said:

Dumb question, ETNZ was set up to actually round the other gate mark they were never going to even try that harder turn except to try and get a penalty.  I have never had experience with that with gates.  Also, how far past the mark can ETNZ go hunting?  

It's match racing, they are not in any way required to make the turn for home and if it is determined that they could have gotten a piece of Artemis it is game over

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1 hour ago, yikes said:

I would suspect New Zealand deliberately botched the gybe in order to draw a penalty.  Kiwi's legendary sportsmanship and sense of fair play would not permit them to take a dive to gain an advantage.  So I couldn't possibly suggest such a thing.

 

This

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So are the races in the 2nd RR worth more points as in previous cups or still 1 a piece?

http://www.cupexperience.com/americas-cup-scoring-how-it-works/

 

So Oracle's one point bonus is the potential tiebreaker if they are tied in wins after the next RR phase, or even have one less win at that point.

Edited by Passinwind
clarification of rule

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Were OTUSA to end this phase tied with another team (OTUSA's score would include the point the carried forward for coming 2nd in the ACWS), then their 2nd place in the ACWS would break a tie in their favour against all teams except LARBAR.

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6 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

This

Down to straw men now?

Its over move on.

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54 minutes ago, nroose said:

^ true if you say 4 wins, and don't pay attention to the previous bonus points.

The next few races will be crucial to who wins the Qualifiers. If ETNZ and Oracle can win their next 2 races, which will be a tough ask for ETNZ but should be easier for Oracle, but if they can both win, they will tie RR1 on 6 points. RR2 day one sees ETNZ face France which should be a win for ETNZ, and Oracle v Artemis. So assuming the Kiwi's win, and Artemis again beats Oracle ETNZ could end up on 7 points and Oracle on 6. ETNZ will then need to beat Oracle to win the qualifier, where if Oracle wins, the ACWS ranking will mean Oracle win the qualifier taking 1 point into the match. This is where the challengers need to think about the bigger picture, and whether or not they want to make it easier for Oracle to retain the Cup, Especially teams like Artemis and BAR.

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2 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The next few races will be crucial to who wins the Qualifiers. If ETNZ and Oracle can win their next 2 races, which will be a tough ask for ETNZ but should be easier for Oracle, but if they can both win, they will tie RR1 on 6 points. RR2 day one sees ETNZ face France which should be a win for ETNZ, and Oracle v Artemis. So assuming the Kiwi's win, and Artemis again beats Oracle ETNZ could end up on 7 points and Oracle on 6. ETNZ will then need to beat Oracle to win the qualifier, where if Oracle wins, the ACWS ranking will mean Oracle win the qualifier taking 1 point into the match. This is where the challengers need to think about the bigger picture, and whether or not they want to make it easier for Oracle to retain the Cup, Especially teams like Artemis and BAR.

RR1 is finished. Tomorrow is day 1 of RR2. There's a day off in the middle of RR2, which I think might be confusing you.

But yes, if NZ wins everything, and Oracle loses to NZ and Artemis, then NZ would finish ahead of Oracle after the RRs.

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The next few races will be crucial to who wins the Qualifiers. If ETNZ and Oracle can win their next 2 races, which will be a tough ask for ETNZ but should be easier for Oracle, but if they can both win, they will tie RR1 on 6 points. RR2 day one sees ETNZ face France which should be a win for ETNZ, and Oracle v Artemis. So assuming the Kiwi's win, and Artemis again beats Oracle ETNZ could end up on 7 points and Oracle on 6. ETNZ will then need to beat Oracle to win the qualifier, where if Oracle wins, the ACWS ranking will mean Oracle win the qualifier taking 1 point into the match. This is where the challengers need to think about the bigger picture, and whether or not they want to make it easier for Oracle to retain the Cup, Especially teams like Artemis and BAR.

The first RR is already over. Everyone raced everyone once.

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The next few races will be crucial to who wins the Qualifiers. If ETNZ and Oracle can win their next 2 races, which will be a tough ask for ETNZ but should be easier for Oracle, but if they can both win, they will tie RR1 on 6 points. RR2 day one sees ETNZ face France which should be a win for ETNZ, and Oracle v Artemis. So assuming the Kiwi's win, and Artemis again beats Oracle ETNZ could end up on 7 points and Oracle on 6. ETNZ will then need to beat Oracle to win the qualifier, where if Oracle wins, the ACWS ranking will mean Oracle win the qualifier taking 1 point into the match. This is where the challengers need to think about the bigger picture, and whether or not they want to make it easier for Oracle to retain the Cup, Especially teams like Artemis and BAR.

Good point, Artemis should pull up short of finish line (if ahead in their race againts ETNZ) to maximise their chances in the AC cup, as ETNZ is only team with potential to beat Oracle in these Qualifier round robins and so trim a point off Oracle in the AC.  Artemis and ETNZ are obviously the two LV finalists anyway.  Likewise Softbank (fat chance!) and maybe BAR, given the very remote chance they win the LV cup

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8 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The next few races will be crucial to who wins the Qualifiers. If ETNZ and Oracle can win their next 2 races, which will be a tough ask for ETNZ but should be easier for Oracle, but if they can both win, they will tie RR1 on 6 points.

Oracle already won RR 1 with 5 points.

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Both Oracle and Team NZ now need to win all of their races as Oracle only has 4 races left to ETNZ's five. If Oracle drops one race and ETNZ wins all 5 it will make it 9-8 to ETNZ, the only problem is one of those races is against each other, which will turn out to be the crucial match

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36 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

clarke,

Both, Artemis and BAR rather have Oracle retaining the Cup than ETNZ winning it and throwing everything out of kelter what's been done the last 3 years. Artemis and LRBAR have a very good Relationship & Friendship between them, lots of good mates on the other Team and vise-versa. Ainslie said prior to starting the Event in "The Guardian" quote:

"If we can't win the Event we'd love to see Artemis winning it"

That tells you quite a lot. The Challengers will do everything in their Power to stop ETNZ winning the Cup.

I think Spithill is right: Grant Dalton is a lone wolf and only has to blame himself if the remaining Challengers trying to help the Americans not just because ETNZ didn't sign the "Framework Agreement" but because of the Comments Dalton made over the last 6 months to a year.

They don't care shit about Dalton's saying, they care for the money. They played it safe with TO. The thing is that if TNZ wins they will have to negociate with him, and it won't be that easy.

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Am I the only one who thinks they could have an extra up wind and down wind leg to these races? At the moment it seems race outcomes are a little bit too much determined by luck. A good team on average should always come out ahead if given a long enough race.

 

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8 hours ago, maxmini said:

For all we know they are keeping things simple in order to not confuse their hoped for primary demographic which is the new , mostly non sailing , audience . With the 20 min sprints , possibilities of catastrophic crashes , repeated comments of the most elementary elements of sailing and the gratuitous panning of the grinning fans in the bleachers it's easy to see what their focus is and all in the quest for sustainability . True fans both old and new are left by the wayside to fend for themselves by scratching for info and drawing yellow lines . I keep waiting for them to break out the checkered flag by some bolt on bedecked bimbo which might not be a bad thing after all .

Gotta agree with ianz who said  "I don't get why you're starting off slowly, kinda seems to me you'd want to get this stuff lice from day one and grab viewer interest."

And I gotta agree with your KISS principle except that this appears to be Keep-It-Stupid-Stupid and not Keep-It-Simple-Stupid. 

I don't see how you can attract new fans with endless and mindless shots of grinning, waving fans or tedious drawn-out footage of grinders grinding.

ACTV went into this event with access to countless tools evolved by Animation Research since 1992 and an experienced production team that includes sailors with race experience.

So why so slow in getting their act together!  I boil over every time we get to a mark rounding when there is a reasonable split between boats.  We see the mark dead centre of the screen and the leading boat approaching. We're totally in the dark about the trailing boat until it eventually hoves into view. So why not retrain the camera to put the mark closer to the screen edge and pull the second boat into the shot early? We'll see more action and the new fans will learn more.  

For those of us fortunate enough to view entire races without commercial interruption we are still plagued years after ACTV was created by stuff like producers cutting away from important details such as following a boat through a tack or jibe to learn whether it remains foil-borne or loses crucial speed.  And why? They want to show us glamour shots of half-pissed fans clapping, cheering and waving or salty and sweaty grinders grinding.

 

 

 

 

9

 

 

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2 hours ago, tech said:

Am I the only one who thinks they could have an extra up wind and down wind leg to these races? At the moment it seems race outcomes are a little bit too much determined by luck. A good team on average should always come out ahead if given a long enough race.

 

No arguments here, races are about half the desired duration and there is nowhere near enough time in between (although I didn't see today with only 3 races maybe it wasn't so condensed), personall I prefer a little bit of analysis and switching back to the next race halfway through the start sequence is just balls!

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From someone who has spent a lot of time on this site talking about the Cup, but has spent about .5% of my time on this edition of the Cup until now (so I came into this weekends racing with fresh eyes), here is my ranking of the teams and my initial impressions after watching Day 2 and 3 of the racing:

- ETNZ-AUS

- Artemis-UK

- OR-Team Bermuda

- LRBAR, Soft Dick and the French are tied.

ETNZ are quick and the most stable and slick in their maneuvers.  Artemis is right on ETNZ's heals and damn quick.  OR is a close third and will benefit greatly, and unfairly, by racing in the LVC.  The other three are a toss up, but I am pleased to see the French proving a lot of doubters wrong.  I am a big Cammas fan, the French are my sentimental favorites.  

Another observation is the importance on replacement grinders for teams racing multiple races in one day.  ART-UK and OR-BDA appear to have the advantage in this area where the bottom three this could be an issue.  The French appeared to struggle with this today and LRBAR yesterday.  This could also be where ETNZ's biker boys could be a deciding factor.  Especially in a Cup match if they make it that far.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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