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zillafreak

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Above the waterline though... If BAR is letting water in then it's a major repair job - the alloy honeycomb + carbon corrodes like a battery. This was why ETNZ's repair job was so extensive for a small ding. Ben probably should have taken the points and headed back to base ASAP to keep it dry.

 

Just now, chocoa said:

japan would have damage too

 

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Above the waterline though... If BAR is letting water in then it's a major repair job - the alloy honeycomb + carbon corrodes like a battery. This was why ETNZ's repair job was so extensive for a small ding. Ben probably should have taken the points and headed back to base ASAP to keep it dry.

 

 

@chris.rattue If BAR can't race tomorrow they forfeit the points for their scheduled races.

 

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1 minute ago, jawjaw said:

GBR have NZ and OR tomorrow. Wonder if they'll take the day for repairs and just forfeit those two? 

They might get a postponement of all their races tomorrow under the recent changes to RRACs

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Well BAR have been the highlight of the day - twice - good then bad

 

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

They might get a postponement of all their races tomorrow under the recent changes to RRACs

Even if it is your fault?

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1 minute ago, Captain Gal said:

@chris.rattue If BAR can't race tomorrow they forfeit the points for their scheduled races.

 

Yep, because it was their fault so that makes sense!

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

They might get a postponement of all their races tomorrow under the recent changes to RRACs

Nope, not since they drew a penalty, right

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

They might get a postponement of all their races tomorrow under the recent changes to RRACs

I thought that only applied to Japan. As the at fault boat, I think Benny is going to have to race or forfeit the points. 

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Did anyone figure out how to get the Lester commentary? I looked all over ETNZ, Vodafone and Toyota on FB and could find anything live

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Even if it is your fault?

I think culpability is penalised on the course...

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

Even if it is your fault?

BAR can fix their boat so he (sir) can hit someone else.

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18 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Is it not the first to get into the circle gets room? There didn't seem to be an overlap so perhaps the Kiwi's should've got room around the mark? Looked like ETNZ got their bows into the circle first.

If they're overlapped when the first team reaches the circle then the outside yacht has to give room. It's rule 18.2 (a) (i).

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

I thought that only applied to Japan. As the at fault boat, I think Benny is going to have to race or forfeit the points. 

Correct!

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Jap will have to be repaired overnight aswell.

BAR boat damage must be due to hitting somehting important on JAP

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So my feed just froze as SBTJ go into a tack, and all I can see on their stern is a BMW decal. Seriously....

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......marmalade and jam.......five Chinese crackers up your asshole bang bang bang bang BANG !!!!!!!

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4 minutes ago, Indio said:

They might get a postponement of all their races tomorrow under the recent changes to RRACs

Don't think BAR has any claim.

The rider still applies that the yacht claiming the damage cannot have any fault in the incident - which includes not taking avoiding action when it is clear that a collision will occur.

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Late-rule-change-plugs-Love-tap-redress-gap/154083?source=duckduckgo

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1 minute ago, MalahideGreener said:

So my feed just froze as SBTJ go into a tack, and all I can see on their stern is a BMW decal. Seriously....

Every boat has them.

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2 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

If they're overlapped when the first team reaches the circle then the outside yacht has to give room. It's rule 18.2 (a) (i)

Yeah. My impression was that ETNZ got its bow in the circle while it was not overlapped. I guess replays will confirm that or not.

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Shit - those replays of that starting incident from the SBTJ side are really scary.

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3 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Jap will have to be repaired overnight aswell.

BAR boat damage must be due to hitting somehting important on JAP

Looks like they hit OR-JPN's foil/pole...

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19 minutes ago, Indio said:

Dangerous. Could have wiped out the OR-JPN grinders..

Extremely dangerous. Had the vertical part of the BAR foil not prevented that hull from going even more over the top of the SBTJ guys, it could have been deadly!

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3 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

If they're overlapped when the first team reaches the circle then the outside yacht has to give room. It's rule 18.2 (a) (i).

Do we think Dalton will suck it up and get on with it? Or do they have an ability to question umpire calls? 

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So Oracle and ETNZ will come out of today's racing the happiest, followed prob by LRBAR despite the incident.

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Man, the potential for injury in the SBTJ / BAR crash was huge.  See the TJ wing trimmer get smacked across the hull.

Potential damage to BAR's main foil?

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Yeah, that's really fucking dangerous. Can BAR be further punished? Have to think it'd be warranted, because that was awful.

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Just now, sclarke said:

Do we think Dalton will suck it up and get on with it? Or do they have an ability to question umpire calls? 

It's an on-the-water matter.  No one is protesting the no call.

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Do we think Dalton will suck it up and get on with it? Or do they have an ability to question umpire calls? 

They will learn and move on

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Just now, ~Stingray~ said:

Extremely dangerous. Had the vertical part of the BAR foil not prevented that hull from going even more over the top of those guys on SBTJ, it have been deadly!

Life threating situation there. Looks like GBR didn't have full control at that moment.

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1 minute ago, DayTripper said:

Yeah. My impression was that ETNZ got its bow in the circle while it was not overlapped. I guess replays will confirm that or not.

The funny thing is, I guess Oracle can thank Ben for that. Burling a little rattled about getting run over again? 

The Kiwis can hate Jimmy all they want, but at least he raced hard without banging boats. 

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6 minutes ago, ezyb said:

So Oracle and ETNZ will come out of today's racing the happiest, followed prob by LRBAR despite the incident.

Standings after 35th America's Cup Day 1  © America's Cup  ACEA 2017

Standings after 35th America's Cup Day 1 Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 12.56.13 PM.png

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3 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Yeah. My impression was that ETNZ got its bow in the circle while it was not overlapped. I guess replays will confirm that or not.

I think you will find that if they had not gone bow down before the zone they would not have given the overlap

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

Looks like they hit OR-JPN's foil/pole...

or rigging?

cut into LARBAR's hull pretty well!

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4 minutes ago, Monkey said:

The funny thing is, I guess Oracle can thank Ben for that.

The umpires, Shirley? Room was not given. Or does a boat have to appeal protest?

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3 minutes ago, Monkey said:

The funny thing is, I guess Oracle can thank Ben for that. Burling a little rattled about getting run over again? 

The Kiwis can hate Jimmy all they want, but at least he raced hard without banging boats. 

true----both

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As an Oracle fan, I'm actually a little baffled NZ didn't protest at the same time Oracle did. Silly mistake. 

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Stupidly risky move by sir Ben.

That could have been a deadly situation.

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5 minutes ago, AWASP said:

I think you will find that if they had not gone bow down before the zone they would not have given the overlap

Can't quite parse that one.

edit...Oh, are you saying ETNZ was overlapped when it got its bow in the circle? You might be right, I haven't seen the replay.

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chris draper just said that LRBAR were late to react and then appeared to do a side skid - video shows that too, a sudden move towards SBTJ

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

Thanks for the coverage BTSport1...

Hey Indio. If you are in the UK watching BT, we should meet up :)

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That looks like a major repair on LRBAR. If the inside skin is damaged, then it will be huge.

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The helms and the umpires need to get together to establish what is a reasonable but safeish distance to claim a penalty from

Needing to get under the other boat is a bit extreme at those speeds

20170527_AC35LIVE_RP4321.JPG

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

As an Oracle fan, I'm actually a little baffled NZ didn't protest at the same time Oracle did. Silly mistake. 

Agreed, very strange. Given the poor broadcast production and commentary, it could be that they did and we just couldn't see it, though.

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Phark me - please tell me BAR did not do what I just watched??? He's screwed

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1 minute ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Ben always seems to be a little late to react to situations ahead of him.

3 times is starting to look like carelessness.

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It was like watching staggered replays: the AC35 overhead simulcast was near-realtime, then vip about 3 seconds behind with cricfree a further 3 seconds behind still.

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6 minutes ago, 17mika said:

Stupidly risky move by sir Ben.

That could have been a deadly situation.

He's trying to take the Cup back to the UK, that's probably why it's all or nothing for him. Seems like this could be the start of 'nothing.'

Read the NYTimes interview Thursday: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/sports/sailing/americas-cup-britain-sir-ben-ainslie.html?_r=0

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There are a few things to take away from the day. BAR are fast and in with a shot (assuming they don't hit anyone again) ETNZ and Oracle are pretty equal, and Artemis seemed to be exposed. Not sure if it was foil selection or not, but they didn't look to be the slick operation they've been over the last few weeks. 

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Just now, sclarke said:

There are a few things to take away from the day. BAR are fast and in with a shot (assuming they don't hit anyone again) ETNZ and Oracle are pretty equal, and Artemis seemed to be exposed. Not sure if it was foil selection or not, but they didn't look to be the slick operation they've been over the last few weeks. 

+ 1

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5 minutes ago, sail(plane) said:

chris draper just said that LRBAR were late to react and then appeared to do a side skid - video shows that too, a sudden move towards SBTJ

Yeah, looks like someone hit the rake button by accident, boat came up, lost lateral resistance and slid sideways on to SBTJ.

Have to give it to Barker, that was pretty fucking aggressive! Not normally his style, must have been pissed by being undone by Artemis.

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Just now, sclarke said:

There are a few things to take away from the day. BAR are fast and in with a shot (assuming they don't hit anyone again) ETNZ and Oracle are pretty equal, and Artemis seemed to be exposed. Not sure if it was foil selection or not, but they didn't look to be the slick operation they've been over the last few weeks. 

Agree. But not sure about BAR. yes they showed ART but I think ART had an off day and the wrong foils. Jap had the legs on BAR

OR TNZ JAP very close with maybe ART and BAR not too far off. I would expect ART to be back up there but I think BAR may struggle going forward

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Also looked like OR-JPN lurched toward BAR at speed - should they have given BAR time to avoid contact?? Barker came in very hot.

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

Also looked like OR-JPN lurched toward BAR at speed - should they have given BAR time to avoid contact?? Barker came in very hot.

DB got the overlap then luffed

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Indio I don't think Deano was overly aggressive. He got aggressively into position, but after that the luff was small and smooth. It's the reaction by BAR that was nonsense. Hopefully driving mistake

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

Also looked like OR-JPN lurched toward BAR at speed - should they have given BAR time to avoid contact?? Barker came in very hot.

true that barker came in very very fast and very close too, I think the maneuver was masterful- top level stuff

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23 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

If they're overlapped when the first team reaches the circle then the outside yacht has to give room. It's rule 18.2 (a) (i).

Jimmy doesn't give room

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Some good chatter from those that would know on Twitter about "foil-slip" - the lurch to leeward as you pop up on the foils. Would suggest that everyone (helms & umpires) need to re-think the close-quarter rules.

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

... but I think BAR may struggle going forward

BAR have the luxury of their 2 bonus points in front of ETNZ, ART and OR-JPN. They might use them up to buy 2 days to effect repairs.

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Just now, jawjaw said:

Oracle were the inside yacht.

Only applies if you have an overlap. Rules state first boat to enter the 3 boat length circle has room to round the mark. What they should've done was protest, and they would've had a case.

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1 minute ago, DayTripper said:

Might be better for ETNZ to forfeit if BAR gets back on the water tomorrow.

BAR was taking in water...that should have done some damage to their electronics. I have doubts they'll race tomorrow.

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2 minutes ago, sclarke said:

There are a few things to take away from the day. BAR are fast and in with a shot (assuming they don't hit anyone again) ETNZ and Oracle are pretty equal, and Artemis seemed to be exposed. Not sure if it was foil selection or not, but they didn't look to be the slick operation they've been over the last few weeks. 

Probably the first time I've ever agreed with you. 

Every team showed a few strengths and a few flaws. ETNZ and Oracle looked really good. 

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1 minute ago, jawjaw said:

Oracle were the inside yacht.

I know, just a general observation.

Not sure they had an overlap initially though. In fact the first luff he was clearly behind.

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5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Actually this damaged to LRBAR actually ends their quest for the 35th America's Cup.

lol

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5 minutes ago, Indio said:

BAR have the luxury of their 2 bonus points in front of ETNZ, ART and OR-JPN. They might use them up to buy 2 days to effect repairs.

Can we stop with the OR-JPN crap yet? Clearly two different boats with 2 different sets of crew. In fact, now it's just getting confusing reading these threads. Thanks in advance. 

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So we know the redress rules for damage to another boat, what about redress if the crew are injured in a collision by another boat, and can't continue to race / can't race for the next day / week / forever (fatality)?

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2 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Probably the first time I've ever agreed with you. 

Every team showed a few strengths and a few flaws. ETNZ and Oracle looked really good. 

Well, not every team...I think the French never really showed any strong points today. They were comprehensively destroyed in both races. Probably not a surprise, but still they have more flaws than strengths at this stage.

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1 minute ago, 33jesus said:

Can we stop with the OR-JPN crap yet? Clearly two different boats with 2 different sets of crew. In fact, now it's just getting confusing reading these threads. Thanks in advance. 

Come on mate. Everyone knows they're the same team. Ben Ainslie even said it today in his pre-race interview. Oracle and Japan are the same team, thats the way it is.

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I missed racing today, Honey-Do list, when will they put up replay's?  Sounds like it will be worth watching.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Well, not every team...I think the French never really showed any strong points today. They were comprehensively destroyed in both races. Probably not a surprise, but still they have more flaws than strengths at this stage.

It was pretty darn mean putting them up against what are probably the two strongest teams on the first day though!

Still it might actually be for the best, gives them longer to sort themselves (and reinforce the cockpit coaming) before they race Ben.

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Only applies if you have an overlap. Rules state first boat to enter the 3 boat length circle has room to round the mark. What they should've done was protest, and they would've had a case.

Agree, completely depends on whether there was an overlap. If so, NZ had to give OR mark room and OR were in the right. If not, OR have to give NZ mark room and NZ should've protested.

I've watched the replay a few times and honestly can't tell, but I think NZ should've protested in hope the umpires rule there was an overlap.

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2 minutes ago, Trafficker said:

So we know the redress rules for damage to another boat, what about redress if the crew are injured in a collision by another boat, and can't continue to race / can't race for the next day / week / forever (fatality)?

That's why they are required to insure their team members.

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Come on mate. Everyone knows they're the same team. Ben Ainslie even said it today in his pre-race interview. Oracle and Japan are the same team, thats the way it is.

Indeed.  During AC34 I called Luna Rosa ETNZ-LR.  Turn about is fair play.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Only applies if you have an overlap. Rules state first boat to enter the 3 boat length circle has room to round the mark. What they should've done was protest, and they would've had a case.

I absolutely agree, but... someone forgot to. Not a mistake that should happen at this level. 

I don't know if Oracle had overlap or not, but I would've given room, and protested. Of course, I've never had to sail one of these monsters, so it's just an armchair opinion. 

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Well, not every team...I think the French never really showed any strong points today. They were comprehensively destroyed in both races. Probably not a surprise, but still they have more flaws than strengths at this stage.

The French strength is consistency...

(albeit, consistently slow)

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2 minutes ago, Happie Jack said:

This thread is about all the racing today, how is that confusing?

Think he means the way people refer to STJ is confusing.

I'm fine with OR-STJ or similar, but it is confusing that some people use 'OR-Xerox' to mean OR (because they've copied NZ) and some use it to mean STJ (because they're an OR clone).

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Seems a little unlikely that the bad air is a factor. Position and making sure the trailing boat can't get some leverage is a big factor.

Does anyone know what the marks are made out of? Will it damage the boats if they hit the marks?

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7 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

Agree, completely depends on whether there was an overlap. If so, NZ had to give OR mark room and OR were in the right. If not, OR have to give NZ mark room and NZ should've protested.

I've watched the replay a few times and honestly can't tell, but I think NZ should've protested in hope the umpires rule there was an overlap.

 

All races can be reviewed in Virtualeye... under 'Historical' - 'Bermuda 2017'

 

Here..  https://www.americascup.com/en/virtualeye.html

 

 

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