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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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2 minutes ago, chocoa said:

ETNZ--should had protested

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-28 at 9.12.19 AM.png

Nothing to protest. Oracle didn't end up coming too close to them because etnz blinked.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Ffs! He had an obligation to keep clear or at least TRY to!

Based on your statement nobody should try to match race against Ben because he is too incompetent to meet his most basic of obligations. 

And to be fair, based on today's performance that might be what the other teams do.

Cue Team_GBR............

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Shouldn't apply when the first boat gets into the circle.

I'm confused - what shouldn't apply?

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Thoughts:

 ETNZ/Oracle: Both boats fast, Oracle noticeably faster downwind than upwind. Neither one showing their hands at this stage anyway so probably a good outcome for each team. Surprised and how unpolished Oracle were but still got the points regardless. A bit messy at that mark rounding – suspect ETNZ and the umpires would have made a different call with the benefit of hindsight but ETNZ are still in one piece. Both teams probably happy with that race, if not the result. 

 BAR: I guess Amercia’s Cup racing is like F1 in a way now – we’ve got a ‘Grosjean’s Fault’ equivalent meme brewing. Lucky not to have caused more damage to boat/crew on SBT and again, umpires, hindsight, etc. Were going to have to race ETNZ anyway so both camps probably relieved BAR will likely be off the water tomorrow. Sir Ben might be asked by the officials "Are you sure your damage isn't more serious than it looks?" as a means of saving face rather than parking him. 

 Japan: Lucky to be in one piece, will probably take tomorrow as a damage day even if they don’t need it. Far more promising in terms of boat speed than anyone really expected but at least it makes it interesting. As a Kiwi I am glad to see Deano still has some killer instinct but just happy he and the crew were OK. They're ETNZ's other race so the Kiwis could have a day to themselves. 

France: Good hitout, no damage, just nowhere near the level of the others sadly. At least they are there. Definitely now just a learning experience for the next campaign if it wasn’t already.

Artemis: Can probably write today off as being on the wrong foils, but the real issue will be the decision making that led to that call. Was in the mix when the shifty conditions worked to their advantage but just didn’t show the speed they had against the other boats in practice. Should be in the mix again when/if on the right foils.

 

JASPER: I'd agree looking at that now. Perhaps later in the comp ETNZ will force the issue and had a point, but they didn't and here we are. Could have been Jimmy looking to throw down the gauntlet, could have been PB getting flustered, could have been PB thinking long term. Won't know until later on in the comp. 

Edited by NorthofSouth
Trying to avoid double posting

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1 minute ago, NorthofSouth said:

Thoughts:

 ETNZ/Oracle: Both boats fast, Oracle noticeably faster downwind than upwind. Neither one showing their hands at this stage anyway so probably a good outcome for each team. Surprised and how unpolished Oracle were but still got the points regardless. A bit messy at that mark rounding – suspect ETNZ and the umpires would have made a different call with the benefit of hindsight but ETNZ are still in one piece. Both teams probably happy with that race, if not the result. 

 BAR: I guess Amercia’s Cup racing is like F1 in a way now – we’ve got a ‘Grosjean’s Fault’ equivalent meme brewing. Lucky not to have caused more damage to boat/crew on SBT and again, umpires, hindsight, etc. Were going to have to race ETNZ anyway so both camps probably relieved BAR will likely be off the water tomorrow. Sir Ben might be asked by the officials "Are you sure your damage isn't more serious than it looks?" as a means of saving face rather than parking him. 

 Japan: Lucky to be in one piece, will probably take tomorrow as a damage day even if they don’t need it. Far more promising in terms of boat speed than anyone really expected but at least it makes it interesting. As a Kiwi I am glad to see Deano still has some killer instinct but just happy he and the crew were OK. They're ETNZ's other race so the Kiwis could have a day to themselves. 

France: Good hitout, no damage, just nowhere near the level of the others sadly. At least they are there. Definitely now just a learning experience for the next campaign if it wasn’t already.

Artemis: Can probably write today off as being on the wrong foils, but the real issue will be the decision making that led to that call. Was in the mix when the shifty conditions worked to their advantage but just didn’t show the speed they had against the other boats in practice. Should be in the mix again when/if on the right foils.

Good summary.

Q: can BAR make it to the water tomorrow?

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Good summary.

Q: can BAR make it to the water tomorrow?

For the sake of safety I certainly hope not.

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1 minute ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

sosoomii: in the judges' opinion, he had room.

I'm not saying he didn't.  Just saying that if you want to avoid damage don't put yourself in that position.  After all, whatever allegiances people on here have, BAR is clearly sailed by a competent group and they didn't want to hole their boat. but they did.  

ETNZ showed discretion and lost. Japan showed aggression and got hit. This is the inevitable outcome of AC racing in this format. High risk/reward.  Possibly too much risk. 

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4 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Good summary.

Q: can BAR make it to the water tomorrow?

DB also said in his post-race interview that they have some damage and won't know about tomorrow until they get the boat out of the water. They'd presumably be able to get postponements, which would take NZ vs STJ and OR vs STJ off the table for a day at least.

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Given neither LRBAR or SBTJ are scheduled to race GTF tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if they both sit the day out and make sure the boats are back to 100% vs doing a rush job.  It's clear that France are way off the pace and are headed home at the end of the RRs, so aside from racing for the bonus point it doesn't seem prudent to push things at this stage.

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59 minutes ago, Captain Gal said:

Thanks, nav: One pic = 1M words | © Ricardo Pinto + America's Cup + ACEA 2017 in Bermuda 05.27.2017

One pic = 1M words  © Ricardo Pinto + America's Cup + ACEA  05.27.2017 in Bermuda.JPG

Yup ... what is it about the America's Cup and plastic buckets.

He will have to calm down a bit ... that was a shocker of a move

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21 minutes ago, Passinwind said:

Thanks, interesting:

The ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing – America’s Cup Edition contains this surprise: When the first yacht reaches the zone, if yachts are overlapped or bowsprit overlapped, the outside yacht at that moment shall thereafter give the inside yacht mark-room.

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22 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Bingo!

Bingo is right. Oracle was overlapped as NZ entered the circle. Jimmy had rights to drive in there. 

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20 minutes ago, chocoa said:

ETNZ--should had protested

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-28 at 9.12.19 AM.png

Refer 18.2 (1)

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I'd agree with all of what NorthofSouth said, with a few additions :

Oracle - more than a bit surprised as to how unpolished they were at manoeuvres.

ETNZ - slightly disappointed at Burling blinking on that overlap situation. Contrast his attitude vs Spitbull's - gotta be aggressive - this isn't the Olympics. Maybe a good lesson to learn on Day 1.

BAR - great speed, and for me, easily the best today in terms of tacking and gybing. Ben's gonna push it all day every day, so th either skippers have got to get used to that.

Atemis - disappointed after all the practise sessions. Probably down to board selection, but as another poster said, "who made that call"? Because they're to blame for today's performance.

SBTJ - solid first day, some good things to take away but also some negatives. Slightly worried ho ether would have fared had BAR not had a penalty at the start of their second race.

Groupama - really sad to see Camas reduced to this type of performance - it must be killing him. Proof, if every needed, that the America's Cup, has always been, and will continue to be, about money.

Organisers - Murray did a good job. Umpires got a schooling today. They will need to up their game.

Coverage - I'm in Ireland but had access to BT Sports - couldn't have asked for much more. Kenny Read was spot on , and on-the-water commentary from team members was top-notch.

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1 minute ago, MalahideGreener said:

I'd agree with all of what NorthofSouth said, with a few additions :

Oracle - more than a bit surprised as to how unpolished they were at manoeuvres.

ETNZ - slightly disappointed at Burling blinking on that overlap situation. Contrast his attitude vs Spitbull's - gotta be aggressive - this isn't the Olympics. Maybe a good lesson to learn on Day 1.

BAR - great speed, and for me, easily the best today in terms of tacking and gybing. Ben's gonna push it all day every day, so th either skippers have got to get used to that.

Atemis - disappointed after all the practise sessions. Probably down to board selection, but as another poster said, "who made that call"? Because they're to blame for today's performance.

SBTJ - solid first day, some good things to take away but also some negatives. Slightly worried ho ether would have fared had BAR not had a penalty at the start of their second race.

Groupama - really sad to see Camas reduced to this type of performance - it must be killing him. Proof, if every needed, that the America's Cup, has always been, and will continue to be, about money.

Organisers - Murray did a good job. Umpires got a schooling today. They will need to up their game.

Coverage - I'm in Ireland but had access to BT Sports - couldn't have asked for much more. Kenny Read was spot on , and on-the-water commentary from team members was top-notch.

Yes I used the "local NZ" coverage from BT also :D and the commentary was really good. Not the drivel you sometimes get when they don't have a clue.

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For the record: Sir Ben Ainslie said the boat was "feeling good,” during the last practice. What’s he saying now?  |  © Gilles Martin-Raget + America's Cup + ACEA 2017

 

Sir Ben Ainslie said the boat was "feeling good" during the last practice. © Gilles Martin-Raget + America's Cup + ACEA 2017 .jpg

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34 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

No, he's not obliged to predict a move, just react to it.  If it's not possible to react then, by definition, he wasn't given room.  

Is that still even a rule?

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50 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

18698341_1266846013434065_4490991883449487380_n.jpg

That 'love tap' should buff right out.

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52 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmmm. Pretty conclusive in freeze frame. A bit more difficult at 40knots.

Screen Shot 2017-05-28 at 9.12.19 AM.png

Agreed, I didn't think OTUS had it either... Not quite 40 knts tho. See your screen grab above. 

At these speeds we almost need a replay rule...

Do judges have access to the overhead views - with the circle graphic?

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

Agreed, I didn't think OTUS had it either... Not quite 40 knts tho. See your screen grab above. 

At these speeds we almost need a replay rule...

Do judges have access to the overhead views - with the circle graphic?

The umps have incredibly accurate location data, it is to within 5cm (!)

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

Agreed, I didn't think OTUS had it either... Not quite 40 knts tho. See your screen grab above. 

At these speeds we almost need a replay rule...

Do judges have access to the overhead views - with the circle graphic?

I thought it was first to the circle. But based on this wee clip - http://www.cupexperience.com/blog/2012/04/do-you-understand-this-surprising-rule/

Americas cup rules are different

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Just now, ~Stingray~ said:

The umps have incredibly accurate location data.

Sooo, bad call?

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AC35 Jury Notice #01

Date 27 May 2017

Race QR1R6

Yachts GBR vs. JPN

Discussion

• There was a collision between GBR and JPN in the pre-start of race 6.

• JPN was to leeward and GBR was to windward, with the port (leeward) hull of GBR

lifting up and hitting on top of the starboard (windward) hull of JPN.

• Both boats Y-flag protested.

• The umpires penalized GBR for breaking rule 11.

• Both yachts continued to sail and finish the race.

• Both yachts requested the Measurement Committee (MC) to assess the damage

after the race under rule 60.8.

Reports

• The MC determined that GBR had serious damage.

• The MC is currently assessing damage on JPN and will report to the jury tonight.

• The on-the-water umpire agreed with the call from the booth and that JPN could not

have avoided the contact from the moment it was clear that GBR was not keeping

clear.

Decision

• It was not possible for JPN to avoid the contact when it was clear that GBR was not

keeping clear. JPN did not break rule 14.

• It was possible for GBR to avoid the contact. GBR broke rule 14 and is disqualified.

• GBR is not entitled to redress.

• The jury is awaiting a final report from the MC with regards to JPN and will amend

this notice with regards to redress, if any, for JPN.

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^ the vid above says something else... Now I'm confused, which is a state normal to me!

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I am now totally lost. I would love to see the gap graphic - presumably the data that drives that is the same as what the officials use so it must have been incredibly close. 

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49 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

"his last crash"  - gold

Well...he is racking 'em up

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The rule is pretty clear: at the time the first boat enters the circle, if there is an overlap then the inside boat has rights.  If there is no overlap, the first boat to the circle has rights.

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3 minutes ago, NorthofSouth said:

I am now totally lost. I would love to see the gap graphic - presumably the data that drives that is the same as what the officials use so it must have been incredibly close. 

A tad too close...

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Just now, ezyb said:

The rule is pretty clear: at the time the first boat enters the circle, if there is an overlap then the inside boat has rights.  If there is no overlap, the first boat to the circle has rights.

but ETNZ was first, so who had the overlap? Doesn't the first boat have the overlap?

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I just think Burling was conservative in an effectively worthless race when compared to the potential damage that could have occurred. 

This. In a part of the competition where only one boat is going home, no one wants to give much away and they just need to get through. I think they were just conservative and put incurring no boat damage as priority ahead of anything else.

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2 minutes ago, Liquid said:

but ETNZ was first, so who had the overlap? Doesn't the first boat have the overlap?

There's either an overlap or there isn't, it isn't something one team 'has'.

Here's the relevant rule, 18.2:

Quote

Giving Mark-Room

(a) When the first yacht reaches the zone,

    (i) if yachts are overlapped, the outside yacht at that moment shall thereafter give

        the inside yacht mark-room.

    (ii) if yachts are not overlapped, the yacht that has not reached the zone shall

        thereafter give mark-room.

(b) If the yacht entitled to mark-room leaves the zone, the entitlement to mark-room

    ceases and rule 18.2(a) is applied again if required based on the relationship of the

    yachts considered at the time rule 18.2(a) is re-applied.

(c) If a yacht obtained an inside overlap and, from the time the overlap began, the

    outside yacht is unable to give mark-room, she is not required to give it.

Pretty clear, imo.

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

That turned into this:

the damage is in the center of the port hull.  I'll ask again, how do you fix that?

WetHog  :ph34r:

You need to grind away the outside carbon laminate shell to an area the size of which is not damaged or has the core damaged or waterlogged.  Then, you cut out the core in the area damaged (smaller section than the area you cutaway on the outside.  Then you repair the inner carbon skin if needed, lay in another new, dry, undamaged core.  Then you layup the outer skin again (for these blokes, they probably have a spare outer skin or hull that they will cutaway from the same area of the hull and put it over the repaired inner skin and core).  Then you (in a perfect world) would have that stripped hull in an autoclave, but they obviously can't do that, so it is going to be a prepreg outer skin patch and a big ass heating blanket to kick off the cure.

Not pretty and bloody awful if that section of the boat is under tension load - which thankfully it does not appear to be too badly - if it was resisting hull flex from a wound up backstay like the old days the boat would have folded like young australia.

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This looks bad.  Obvious penetration of both skins allowing a hull breach.  But only the forward few inches of the breach looks bad, the trailing carbon fiber looks like skin delamination, not a big deal.  Can they fix it in 24 hours?  

Note that after the collision they did OK in the first half of the race, then went slower and slower 'till the finish.  A sign of  slowly taking on water into a hull.

bar.JPG

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^^^Yeah, I'm really surprised at the confusion.  The only question is whether there was an overlap.  It appears there was, and I guess the judges agreed.  End of story - everything that happened after looked legit and well-handled.

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1 minute ago, jawjaw said:

There's either an overlap or there isn't, it isn't something one team 'has'.

Here's the relevant rule, 18.2:

Pretty clear, imo.

What about this part;

(ii) if yachts are not overlapped, the yacht that has not reached the zone shall

        thereafter give mark-room.

I guess I need a lesson on an overlap. Seems ETNZ had the overlap but I reserve the right to be wrong...

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Just now, Liquid said:

I guess I need a lesson on an overlap. Seems ETNZ had the overlap but I reserve the right to be wrong...

If ETNZ 'had the overlap' then there would have been no overlap. They had to be clearly in front by one boatlength.

I'm guessing the umpires felt there must have been an overlap when the ETNZ bowsprit reached the circle. But again, it must have been ridiculously close. 

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4 minutes ago, axolotl said:

This looks bad.  Obvious penetration of both skins allowing a hull breach.  But only the forward few inches of the breach looks bad, the trailing carbon fiber looks like skin delamination, not a big deal.  Can they fix it in 24 hours?  

Note that after the collision they did OK in the first half of the race, then went slower and slower 'till the finish.  A sign of  slowly taking on water into a hull.

bar.JPG

Whinch handle sized hole I suspect, Deano thinks the same apparently.

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

What about this part;

(ii) if yachts are not overlapped, the yacht that has not reached the zone shall

        thereafter give mark-room.

I guess I need a lesson on an overlap. Seems ETNZ had the overlap but I reserve the right to be wrong...

The boats are overlapped when part of the trailing boat is ahead of the leading boat's transom. i.e. draw a straight line across NZ's transom and extend it out each side indefinitely, and if part of OR's boat is ahead of that line then they're overlapped. In this case, they appear to have been overlapped.

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

What about this part;

(ii) if yachts are not overlapped, the yacht that has not reached the zone shall

        thereafter give mark-room.

I guess I need a lesson on an overlap. Seems ETNZ had the overlap but I reserve the right to be wrong...

The inside boat gets the overlap

 

Electronics on board

 

The Umps use this data to assist calls.

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Just now, NorthofSouth said:

If ETNZ 'had the overlap' then there would have been no overlap. They had to be clearly in front by one boatlength.

I'm guessing the umpires felt there must have been an overlap when the ETNZ bowsprit reached the circle. But again, it must have been ridiculously close. 

Wait, overlap is not defined by a 1 boat length over lap, or is that an AC rule? I thought it was your bow versus their stern?

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1 minute ago, jawjaw said:

The boats are overlapped when part of the trailing boat is ahead of the leading boat's transom. i.e. draw a straight line across NZ's transom and extend it out each side indefinitely, and if part of OR's boat is ahead of that line then they're overlapped. In this case, they appear to have been overlapped.

So, back to the bowsprit then

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5 minutes ago, Loose Cannon said:

You need to grind away the outside carbon laminate shell to an area the size of which is not damaged or has the core damaged or waterlogged.  Then, you cut out the core in the area damaged (smaller section than the area you cutaway on the outside.  Then you repair the inner carbon skin if needed, lay in another new, dry, undamaged core.  Then you layup the outer skin again (for these blokes, they probably have a spare outer skin or hull that they will cutaway from the same area of the hull and put it over the repaired inner skin and core).  Then you (in a perfect world) would have that stripped hull in an autoclave, but they obviously can't do that, so it is going to be a prepreg outer skin patch and a big ass heating blanket to kick off the cure.

Not pretty and bloody awful if that section of the boat is under tension load - which thankfully it does not appear to be too badly - if it was resisting hull flex from a wound up backstay like the old days the boat would have folded like young australia.

I guess going from what was involved in ETNZ's repair it's anything from 24 hours to 3 days depending on how permanent a job they want to do.

There is every chance we won't see them racing tomorrow given they have that 2 point buffer and anothe r win in the bank already.

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

Wait, overlap is not defined by a 1 boat length over lap, or is that an AC rule? I thought it was your bow versus their stern?

 

2 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

The boats are overlapped when part of the trailing boat is ahead of the leading boat's transom. i.e. draw a straight line across NZ's transom and extend it out each side indefinitely, and if part of OR's boat is ahead of that line then they're overlapped. In this case, they appear to have been overlapped.

I my read on this is that's effectively a one boat length lead but I'm probably wrong.

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Oddly the damage to BAR may be more fixable than normal, because it doesn't have to be as smooth as a conventional racing boat - because the hull is out of the water when they are trying to go fast

I also refer readers to my earlier comment on BAR changing tips and possible sandbagging up to now.

Now we need to see how fast Art are vs Or or ETNZ (assuming BAR don't race tomorrow)

As for the OR-ETNZ mark rounding, it doesn't matter whether you are on normal rules or AC rules, OR had an overlap on the inside when ETNZ entered the circle. They therefore had the rights

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10 minutes ago, ezyb said:

^^^Yeah, I'm really surprised at the confusion.  The only question is whether there was an overlap.  It appears there was, and I guess the judges agreed.  End of story - everything that happened after looked legit and well-handled.

That's probably my fault, ezyb. I wrongly interpreted first to the circle rights. Obviously an overlap was established.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

That's probably my fault, ezyb. I wrongly interpreted first to the circle rights. Obviously and overlap was established.

That is the question... and when you look at the screen grab above with the assist of you folks, the line off of ETNZ's sterns show OTUSA had the overlap.  

Good call then!

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

That is the question... and when you look at the screen grab above with the assist of you folks, the line off of ETNZ's sterns show OTUSA had the overlap.  

Good call then!

I don't doubt there is an overlap, I'm just curious to know how close it was. PB may have made an incredibly good call after a pretty average one on his heading, but it would nice to know how much was in it. 

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How did OR get into position to nail ETNZ at the top mark, during the final upwind leg? After the blown turn at the bottom that had let ETNZ through?

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

That may be so Jays, but Pistol Pete is going to have to harden up, if he wants to get on top of JS.

I'm rapidly losing patience with his answers to questions at pressers, where he does not actually address the questions asked but continues to spout off platitudes about the shore crew and the team. And his referring to "Jimmy and the boys" just doesn't do it for me. Jimmy never refers to the opposition as the "boys"....

Burling needs to absorb the harsh lesson he was handed today and come out more hardened than he was today or he'll be following Jimminy around the courses throughout the regatta. Even softcock Deano showed some balls today FFS!!

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56 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That 'love tap' should buff right out.

Amazing how much damage a grinder handle can cause!! Relieved no one got seriously injured..

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27 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Wait, overlap is not defined by a 1 boat length over lap, or is that an AC rule? I thought it was your bow versus their stern?

 

24 minutes ago, NorthofSouth said:

 

I my read on this is that's effectively a one boat length lead but I'm probably wrong.

The rules are right there on the AC website:

Quote

Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap One yacht is clear astern of another when both of her

hulls are behind a line abeam from the aftermost point of the other yacht’s hulls. However a yacht

with either bow between the other yacht’s hulls is clear astern. The other yacht is clear ahead.

They overlap when neither is clear astern. However, they also overlap when a yacht between them

overlaps both.

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDo2Y2M3N2FlYmVhNGQyNTVh

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4 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

How did OR get into position to nail ETNZ at the top mark, during the final upwind leg? After the blown turn at the bottom that had let ETNZ through?

Got good breeze on the right, ETNZ let them go, the old chestnut - Stay between the mark & opposition. OR had awesome hieght & speed mid course towards the top mark

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7 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

How did OR get into position to nail ETNZ at the top mark, during the final upwind leg? After the blown turn at the bottom that had let ETNZ through?

Mostly a decent shift but also pretty average tactics by the Kiwis

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

I'm rapidly losing patience with his answers to questions at pressers, where he does not actually address the questions asked but continues to spout off platitudes about the shore crew and the team. And his referring to "Jimmy and the boys" just doesn't do it for me. Jimmy never refers to the opposition as the "boys"....

Burling needs to absorb the harsh lesson he was handed today and come out more hardened than he was today or he'll be following Jimminy around the courses throughout the regatta. Even softcock Deano showed some balls today FFS!!

Burling just needs to be himself. Interviews and press conferences don't matter. What happens on the water is what matters. This is his first Americas Cup. Whatever "Beef" there is, is between GD and JS. Burling does his talking on the water. And today he proved he's one of, if not THE best challenger. He is also only a helmsman. This isn't professional wrestling so there's no need for him to talk smack about his competitors. 

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If BAR can't race tomorrow, they will concede 1 point to Oracle and 1 point to ETNZ

If Japan gets the redress thing (24 hours) would both of tomorrows races with Japan (vs oracle and etnz) move to the day after?

Japan would then have 3 races in a day like oracle has tomorrow

- i don't want to put days in as I am in nz and tomorrow is monday... sunday for you :) - i also do not know if today is day 1 or 2 given yesterdays postponement

 

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4 minutes ago, AWASP said:

Got good breeze on the right, ETNZ let them go, the old chestnut - Stay between the mark & opposition. OR had awesome hieght & speed mid course towards the top mark

I thought NZ had a couple of touch downs up that leg, too. Wasn't the slickest. Hard to tell, though, because the TV director is more interested in closeups and using all his toys than tracking the race.

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5 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Burling just needs to be himself. Interviews and press conferences don't matter. What happens on the water is what matters. This is his first Americas Cup. Whatever "Beef" there is, is between GD and JS. Burling does his talking on the water. And today he proved he's one of, if not THE best challenger. He is also only a helmsman. This isn't professional wrestling so there's no need for him to talk smack about his competitors. 

I thought Jimmy was pretty good in the press interview. apart from the Bermuda is great push as if he is still trying to sell it.

The Boys - very kiwi :)

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10 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Burling just needs to be himself. Interviews and press conferences don't matter. What happens on the water is what matters. This is his first Americas Cup. Whatever "Beef" there is, is between GD and JS. Burling does his talking on the water. And today he proved he's one of, if not THE best challenger. He is also only a helmsman. This isn't professional wrestling so there's no need for him to talk smack about his competitors. 

I agree. Despite what the Kiwi media and probably their audience including Indio want, it is ~not~ professional sheep-shit wrestling and nor should it ever get there.

All of the ETNZ guys are pretty great with their video appearances and interviews. Ashby is my favorite to hear from but Burling is plenty good for these helmsman conf's.

Things will likely evolve over time anyway, it won't be just the helms for the next gawd-knows-how many of them are ahead.

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Burling just needs to be himself. Interviews and press conferences don't matter. What happens on the water is what matters. This is his first Americas Cup. Whatever "Beef" there is, is between GD and JS. Burling does his talking on the water. And today he proved he's one of, if not THE best challenger. He is also only a helmsman. This isn't professional wrestling so there's no need for him to talk smack about his competitors. 

One would have thought that after a fair few races in the ACWS that his nervousness would have disappeared, but his presser performances to date in AC35 don't  generate much confidence, especially after such a rookie error as letting Jimminy go when their lead had vapourised. You're absolutely right that what happens on the water is what matters!! And he was taught a lesson by Jimminy on the water today.

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9 minutes ago, AWASP said:

Got good breeze on the right, ETNZ let them go, the old chestnut - Stay between the mark & opposition. OR had awesome height & speed mid course towards the top mark

Oracle needed one less tack on that leg as well.

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The package on Sky NZ was frustrating. Way too many crowd cheering shots, close ups of nothing in particular, and complete lack of anything that provided information comparing the boats relative to each other or the course. Finally in the last race there was some virtual eye that did this, but way way too late in proceedings.

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

One would have thought that after a fair few races in the ACWS that his nervousness would have disappeared, but his presser performances to date in AC35 don't  generate much confidence, especially after such a rookie error as letting Jimminy go when their lead had vapourised. You're absolutely right that what happens on the water is what matters!! And he was taught a lesson by Jimminy on the water today.

And he'll learn that lesson. Jimmy is a seasoned AC veteran, as is Dean Barker, and Dean Barker sailed a very classic, conservative match race against Artemis, and got beaten by Artemis. It was a good check in for ETNZ, and they proved they're at the front of the pack. Its just the first day, so no need to start panicking. 

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4 minutes ago, Nutta said:

The package on Sky NZ was frustrating. Way too many crowd cheering shots, close ups of nothing in particular, and complete lack of anything that provided information comparing the boats relative to each other or the course. Finally in the last race there was some virtual eye that did this, but way way too late in proceedings.

Totally agreed, I was saying the same thing. I don't think it's Sky, I think they just take the feed they're given, which is the same as everyone else.

It was the same thing in the AWCS.

I said elsewhere that if they want to to be constant closeups, they should at least have an overlay with laylines, course positions, course trails, and distances on screen at all times. Doesn't have to be intrusive, just there for people who want the info. That they have all this info at their fingertips and don't use any of it - or make any of it available in a usable way - is embarrassing.

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Previously I'd have the app running with virtual eye to get some contextual detail, but not an option for me in NZ with the android app. Only virtual eye was for ACWS.

The AC35 site suggests that virtual eye should work in NZ but not for me it doesn't.

Some suggesting that it might from the website instead of the app. Will try that tomorrow.  Presuming BA hasn't taken two boats out of contention tomorrow, fucking the day pretty much.

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^^^ "The package on Sky NZ was frustrating"

 

Agreed, the cuts to the crowd just as a boat was about to tack or gybe - infuriating.  If I wanted to look at random people I would go down to the mall :angry:

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7 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Previously I'd have the app running with virtual eye to get some contextual detail, but not an option for me in NZ with the android app. Only virtual eye was for ACWS.

The AC35 site suggests that virtual eye should work in NZ but not for me it doesn't.

Some suggesting that it might from the website instead of the app. Will try that tomorrow.  Presuming BA hasn't taken two boats out of contention tomorrow, fucking the day pretty much.

I had virtual eye on screen 1, vip on screen 2 and cricfree on screen 3 

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Via app? Or AC35 website?

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The footage makes it look to me like the damage to BAR was done at the end when they twisted off and their hull kind of grinded down on TJ's hull/beam connection.

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