zillafreak

Live Racing Thread

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7 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Anyone have more photos or screen shots of the dagger lower pivot/fairing? Looks like serious mayhem down there.

I don't see it as a major problem as I think it is replaced every time there is a board change anyway.

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Good question about the losing finalist helping the defender. Outteridge's cryptic reply hints that they will help OR-Xerox.

All the more reason to finish it off tomorrow. ETNZ can tune up against their powercatsB)

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15 minutes ago, marlowe said:

He said he thought he was going to lay the gate and gybe after, so they weren't ready to gybe when he realised he wasn't going to lay.

Exactly - if ART had faced that situation, NO and Perce would have dicussed at length whether or not they were laying. PB seems to be saying he 'forgot' to tell the boys that he wasn't laying - a case for better comms for sure

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Just now, crux said:

I don't see it as a major problem as I think it is replaced every time there is a board change anyway.

faring yes, but what's it attached to to show core ?

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Missed Race 1 and just watched the replay.  That no-penalty call sets a worrying precedent for the future - Artemis were bearing down on ETNZ at speed who clearly (and correctly) took the prudent action of avoiding  They got within 40m going 30 knots so had no choice IMO.  Next time the leeward boat will be forced to sail dangerously close in order to draw the penalty and at these speeds that could result in a significant collision.  I wouldn't be surprised if RS comes out later to say they got that one wrong.

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27 minutes ago, NZL5 said:

Jay, I'm not sure we can take too much from all of this. So much is coming down to moding decisions on the day. This, as you know, is completely weather dependant. We could be in a scenario where a 6-10 knot AC will help us win or a 13-15 range push it over to Shithill.

We don't yet know how good jiminy-Russky are in light air. I think our starts are the weak point, but those can be rectified. What can't be rectified is having a slow boat or being at the end of the design curve. My gut tells me that is not the case for us.

I agree that we seem to be the business in the really low stuff, but we haven't seen a lot of that recently (I'm talking 6 - 9 knots here).

Starts CAN be improved, but so far not so much.

So either they are making this shit hard intentionally or they just ain't fixing their deficiencies.

Man, when we had to struggle to get back on the foils at the end of Race 3 my heart was going like fuck!

 

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6 minutes ago, crux said:

I don't see it as a major problem as I think it is replaced every time there is a board change anyway.

This is the photo I was wondering about.

 

8PIkTST.png

 

If that doesn't look serious...  Not sure where Hoom on the TNZ thread got this but it sounded like it was a SS from the onboard camera shown on MBC Sport coverage. 

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4 minutes ago, ezyb said:

 I wouldn't be surprised if RS comes out later to say they got that one wrong.

Slater does that for anyone but ETNZ....

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16 minutes ago, Alpinefolk said:

No. He expected to lay through the gate and gybe down to the finish. A wind shift meant they didn't lay it and they had to soak down to make the gate before the gybe

How does that explain not putting the board down during the gybe, for the reach into the finish?

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13 minutes ago, Indio said:

Slater does that for anyone but ETNZ....

Yeah, he's a cunt.

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14 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

This is the photo I was wondering about.

 

8PIkTST.png

 

If that doesn't look serious...  Not sure where Hoom on the TNZ thread got this but it sounded like it was a SS from the onboard camera shown on MBC Sport coverage. 

Since they foiled on it across the finish line it can't be too bad. But that's surprising given how the hull looks to have caved right where the most stress must happen, where that foilcase is mounted on the lower bearing. 

Did they sail unassisted back to base?

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Since they foiled on it across the finish line it can't be too bad. But that's surprising given how the hull looks to have caved right where the most stress must happen, where that foilcase is mounted on the lower bearing. 

Did they sail unassisted back to base?

i think it is basically just the fairing around the board case, not structural 

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That sure looks like the case bore against the hull side hard enough to put two vertical breaks right through to the core!  Not an overnight fix if that is the situation. I thought the boat looked low in the water after all the back slapping was over but figured it was support team jumping on board from the support boat. Do they have a bilge alarm? 

   I was surprise at how quickly they popped up on the foils after getting sorted out from the botched jibe. The leeward bow was well down in the water but once the boat speed up a bit it went right up on the foils and then any damage we see in this photo would have been well out of the water until the finish. Surely someone witnessed the boat being hauled at the shed after the racing.

 

Hope they have plenty of Flex Tape

 

Image result for sawed this boat in half

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

That sure looks like the case bore against the hull side hard enough to put two vertical breaks right through to the core!  Not an overnight fix if that is the situation. I thought the boat looked low in the water after all the back slapping was over but figured it was support team jumping on board from the support boat. Do they have a bilge alarm? 

   I was surprise at how quickly they popped up on the foils after getting sorted out from the botched jibe. The leeward bow was well down in the water but once the boat speed up a bit it went right up on the foils and then any damage we see in this photo would have been well out of the water until the finish. Surely someone witnessed the boat being hauled at the shed after the racing.

 

Hope they have plenty of Flex Tape

 

Image result for sawed this boat in half

 

 

I can guarantee 100% that it is an overnight fix because the alternative is that they are out of the cup!

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 Not sure where Hoom on the TNZ thread got this

It was the onboard feed & well after the finish.

Art feed cut off several mins earlier but as ETNZ pulled away & got foiling (heading back to base I presume?) the camera zoomed in to this.

I think its just external cover, you see it in other pics screwed on -> should be a spare kicking around.

But how did it break?

 

Quote

Yeah and, unlike last times, they haven't had the umps come on to explain any of them. D.A.F.

They've never had the umpire on to explain no-penalties, only the penalties.

Really wish they would get the explanation for no-penalty rulings.

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30 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Overnight patchup for the one race tomorrow!

They got BAR's bottom re-built overnight.

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1 hour ago, ezyb said:

Missed Race 1 and just watched the replay.  That no-penalty call sets a worrying precedent for the future - Artemis were bearing down on ETNZ at speed who clearly (and correctly) took the prudent action of avoiding  They got within 40m going 30 knots so had no choice IMO.  Next time the leeward boat will be forced to sail dangerously close in order to draw the penalty and at these speeds that could result in a significant collision.  I wouldn't be surprised if RS comes out later to say they got that one wrong.

Ditto. At these closing speeds, it's kind of unbelievable that a boat is allowed to veer down, point straight at the opposition and come that close before turning away. Like some big game of 'Chicken' ...  Spithill will be salivating ... 

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Art got unlucky a bunch on umpire calls previously but today pretty much made up for those I think.

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

Well... if they were'n't talking, how do you think Burling, Tuke and Ashby manage to coordinate the foils and wing trims during tacks and gybes?? Telepathically?

They do talk through those, they have a nice clipped style that delivers exactly the information required to get it done. 

I actually think Peter is starting to get the hang of the course management. They hava caught Artemis out several times already and the timing of their tacks and stuff is really starting to gel and put the other boat on the spot, this is not something that was happening at the start of the competition.

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ok then, what would the end result be if ETNZ didn't avoid that prestart foul and hit and damaged unfit for future racing that day,or the day after, would artemis be DSQ from the regatta and a clear message sent to oracle ?

Edited by 167149

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11 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

They got BAR's bottom re-built overnight.

Yeah, they did and I was amazed. But this damage (if that is what we are seeing there) looks like it is right at the DB case limits and could be a more elaborate repair. Especially if the exit bearing at the bottom is stuffed. Hard to see what is flopping around down there. Someone has to have a photo of this area on the crane lift.

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9 minutes ago, hoom said:

Art got unlucky a bunch on umpire calls previously but today pretty much made up for those I think.

I would say more so, because they got lucky in the finals, not the largely decorative non-functional round robins (or whatever the fuck they call them now).

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This whole issue of starts etc...what was the record for SF in the AC final? From memory OR would always beat us to the first gate but come the first upward leg we would slowly make the pass and hang on for the race win. Later in the match, we started winning the starts and then OR started passing us upwind. Seems to me that the starts aren't as important as everyone is making them out to be. The only time we see passes in this fuckfest (most of the time) is upwind, based on our upwind speed. Put it this way, winning the start isn't everything, if we start winning the start against OR (if we can put AR away tomorrow) but loosing the race no one will give a fuck!!

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AR anticipated the coming luff, had the ww board down already and tacked as soon as ETNZ lifted. It was a good no-call and ETNZ won the race in large measure on that event regardless.

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Lol in the presser a question about ETNZ upwind VMG being great

PB: Yeah nah, our team did a great effort to make a really quick boat.

Q: Yeah but its not just you're faster, the angle was great.

PB: Yeah *smiles* then realises he's supposed to Rugby Boof Head answer & waffles a bit ^_^

 

 

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I would say more so, because they got lucky in the finals, not the largely decorative non-functional round robins (or whatever the fuck they call them now).

The rules need to be looked at...we should have had two penaltys today, but because we only have one boat and can't afford damage at this point in the series we weren't aggressive enough...ETNZ clearly slowed and/or took action to avoid a collision....no there wasn't an overlap, but AR were aiming straying at us and we weren't to know they would sort their shit out and steer away again!

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2 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

The rules need to be looked at...we should have had two penaltys today, but because we only have one boat and can't afford damage at this point in the series we weren't aggressive enough...ETNZ clearly slowed and/or took action to avoid a collision....no there wasn't an overlap, but AR were aiming straying at us and we weren't to know they would sort their shit out and steer away again!

I think one penalty not two, but shrug.

Trubble is that the penalties are adjudicated by a human being that makes mistakes.

All we can do is accept greedily with rubbing hands the decisions that go for us and suck it up when they don't. 

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Especially if the exit bearing at the bottom is stuffed. Hard to see what is flopping around down there.

I don't think they'd have been foiling away if the bearing/case were buggered.

Unless they didn't realise but I'm pretty sure they'd have had a check after the fairing was lost before doing that.

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I heard Paul Cayard commentating today (first time?). His assessment was very clear - ETNZ has superior boat speed everywhere except the first reach leg - he said that extending by so much when they get ahead is the sign of a faster boat - prolly why they've won 100% of races when they're leading at the first mark.

Looks like the only way for ETNZ to get to first mark ahead is to luff and stop the other in the pre-start and to lead to the line with other boat dead behind (not to leeward or windward at the line). it's gonna be hard to catch JS in that position though.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I think one penalty not two, but shrug.

Trubble is that the penalties are adjudicated by a human being that makes mistakes.

All we can do is accept greedily with rubbing hands the decisions that go for us and suck it up when they don't. 

Yep I can accept it, AR have been stiffed as well, but it does feel like they are applying 10knot racing speeds to 30 knot foiling cats!!

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I do have a picture from a couple of meters away but won't be posting it 

Rest assured it's a flesh wound. 

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25 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

The rules need to be looked at...we should have had two penaltys today, but because we only have one boat and can't afford damage at this point in the series we weren't aggressive enough...ETNZ clearly slowed and/or took action to avoid a collision....no there wasn't an overlap, but AR were aiming straying at us and we weren't to know they would sort their shit out and steer away again!

Do you sail, have you ever match raced.  It certainly sounds like you haven't. There was nothing wrong with those calls today

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7 minutes ago, PJB said:

I do have a picture from a couple of meters away but won't be posting it 

Rest assured it's a flesh wound. 

Good for you!!

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

Sweet.  Get the powers that be to put more money into NASCAR please.  ;)

To many of those Australian Chevy's in NASCAR right now.

WetHog  :ph34r:

whats the aussie connection?

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20 minutes ago, PJB said:

I do have a picture from a couple of meters away but won't be posting it 

Rest assured it's a flesh wound. 

Dude, don't make me get out the yellow lines! Did you see the inboard side at the case? That is where it looks like breaks in the skin running vertically at the fore and aft limits of the case. That wouldn't be a flesh wound except to Chuck Norris.

   Show you pic and you might be let slide on the other mandatory pics. 22 posts? Surprised you haven't gotten called to ante up yet. 

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16 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Do you sail, have you ever match raced.  It certainly sounds like you haven't. There was nothing wrong with those calls today

I'm not here to compare match racing CV's, or if your cock is bigger than mine, it's my opinion and I've given it, based on what I saw on VE and live and the fact ETNZ had to alter their course. The penalty wasn't given, doesn't mean there shouldn't have been one. It's finished now so I'm moving on.

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Interesting seeing how gingerly the Artemis boys were crossing the tramp today - looked very sluggish at times

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3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

 

 

In any sport now, it's a total waste of time for the sportsman to open their mouths.  All that comes out is "really happy with how things went today", "taking things one step at a time" blah blah fucking blah.  Not their fault, they are coached by the same people who coach everyone else to give nothing away.  ..."so we'll see how it goes tomorrow".

The only thing of any value it the demeanour of the people and even that is of questionable value.  So it's just more Brand exposure on the backdrop.

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5 minutes ago, random said:

In any sport now, it's a total waste of time for the sportsman to open their mouths.  All that comes out is "really happy with how things went today", "taking things one step at a time" blah blah fucking blah.  Not their fault, they are coached by the same people who coach everyone else to give nothing away.  ..."so we'll see how it goes tomorrow".

The only thing of any value it the demeanour of the people and even that is of questionable value.  So it's just more Brand exposure on the backdrop.

yep

"the boys did as great job today"

are they getting paid each time they say that??

not worth having a post race briefing unless Spithill is there

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1 hour ago, TN_Kiwi said:

I heard Paul Cayard commentating today (first time?). His assessment was very clear - ETNZ has superior boat speed everywhere except the first reach leg - he said that extending by so much when they get ahead is the sign of a faster boat - prolly why they've won 100% of races when they're leading at the first mark.

Looks like the only way for ETNZ to get to first mark ahead is to luff and stop the other in the pre-start and to lead to the line with other boat dead behind (not to leeward or windward at the line). it's gonna be hard to catch JS in that position though.

I actually think JS is quite likely to be snared in the starts a few times.

Yes he catches people regularly, but he is also hyper aggressive and does occasionally come unstuck because of it, it's a very all or nothing game he plays.

I am sure he will pummel us at least a few times in the prestart and will win the majority, but he will also lose one or two by pushing so hard he falls into a bad situation himself.

It's the same out on the track as well sometimes you just know what his reaction in a certain situation is going to be.

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Dude, don't make me get out the yellow lines!

kISnU0n.png

Yellow is the outline of the fairing.

Blue is the structural hull under the fairing.

The damage is torn fairing.

 

Edit: pic from one of the ETNZ Preview vids

XnDgxFO.png

 

This also

m3777_crop169015_1280x720_proportional_1

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3 hours ago, generative.design said:

I'm a bit worried about the quietness onboard ETNZ. PB seems to think he can win by merely executing perfectly, but that game will be brought by OR as well. Trying to match race without plenty of comms between helm and tactician might bite them in the end.

Is "communication" just a euphemism for Percy/Slingsby telling their helms what to do?

Outteridge and Spithill both have to do foil control. ETNZ has Tuke doing foil control so PB (mostly) just helms. So it seems they have made a deliberate tradeoff to allow PB to almost dinghy sail their AC challenge. This is arguably a bigger design decision than the cycling etc.

Having said that, if you listen to the NZ on board feed it's not quite as quiet as you might think from the main feed. (Pity it's not in sync, on my setup anyway...)

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4 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I like the Blaney kid a lot but he has the same problem as CB.

Blaney wins his first race today, passing KyB on his old tires and holding Harvick off at the end. He's in a Ford but is a good kid that races clean. Plus how can you hate on the Woods being they were there at the start of NASCAR.

Oh yeah, he did not have a radio the whole race, used old school hand signals to the team. Well deserved win.

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31 minutes ago, generative.design said:

As the cup is coming closer, mouths will be more tightly shut as the contenders don't want to give their game away.

 

NBC would be much better served to have Jenny Tulloch doing some race commentary - great sailor and does great interviews. I may be slightly biased since she is from Houston but I don't think so - it's just knowledge, talent and knowing when to shut up. 

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1 hour ago, PJB said:

I do have a picture from a couple of meters away but won't be posting it 

Rest assured it's a flesh wound. 

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

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37 minutes ago, generative.design said:

As the cup is coming closer, mouths will be more tightly shut as the contenders don't want to give their game away.

 

So Simon thinks etnz is doing just enough to beat Artemis. 

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5 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

Are you trying to piss Jaysper off now mate.....he'll be PMing you every five minutes asking for it:lol:

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5 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

Teasing Bastard! :D

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16 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

NBC would be much better served to have Jenny Tulloch doing some race commentary - great sailor and does great interviews.

Not NBC, she's part of ACAlphabet and yes absolutely under-utilised.

Sailing Anarchy had her doing alternative commentary with Mr. Clean for AC33 (or AC32?) & it was really great.

They should kick KR off commentary & put her on.

Should have done it last AC also.

 

14 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Thanks Hoom, you get the yellow line prize. Great explanation and I'll shut up now.

^_^

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1 minute ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

Now that is a cruel wound to us! 

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1 hour ago, generative.design said:

As the cup is coming closer, mouths will be more tightly shut as the contenders don't want to give their game away.

 

2-Time WMRC Simon Shaw would be a great color-commentator too. Good ideas expressed in this one.

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6 hours ago, WetHog said:

KR just mentioned a valid point.  Sure ART wins the start, but ETNZ-AUS finish.

Which would you ETNZ-AUS fans rather have?

WetHog  :ph34r:

What's this ETNZ-AUS shit fer crisssake?  

How about SWE-AUS-GBR to even things up?

 

 

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50 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So Simon thinks etnz is doing just enough to beat Artemis. 

Yeah. Good video. It's been obvious NZ has been keeping clear in some of the starts but Simon Shaw reckons they're effectively trying to keep their start tactics out of Oracle's view... Mind you that was before today's starts where NZ kept it pretty close over the line. Without doing anything very startling.

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All this winning the start talk reminds of of a Dennis Conner statement which went something like this =>

Winning the start isn't that important, nor is even getting to the first mark.  It's the first leeward mark that is most important.  

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50 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

What's this ETNZ-AUS shit fer crisssake?  

How about SWE-AUS-GBR to even things up?

I don't think you've quite got how this game is played...

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29 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

All this winning the start talk reminds of of a Dennis Conner statement which went something like this =>

Winning the start isn't that important, nor is even getting to the first mark.  It's the first leeward mark that is most important.  

Since PB made it clear in today's presser that that's exactly where ETNZ is focussed, I wonder what new last-ditch counter-strategy AR will try tomorrow. ...more aggressive hunting for penalties? We could see a dangerous situation tomorrow if they really push the aggression limits - they might be getting desperate. But, ETNZ know they can't afford boat damage now - they'll stay well away.

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3 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

Since PB made it clear in today's presser that that's exactly where ETNZ is focussed, I wonder what new last-ditch counter-strategy AR will try tomorrow. ...more aggressive hunting for penalties? We could see a dangerous situation tomorrow if they really push the aggression limits - they might be getting desperate. But, ETNZ know they can't afford boat damage now - they'll stay well away.

I doubt they'll do much of anything different for the reason you stated.  Boat damage is way more of an issue for Artemis than ETNZ

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

2-Time WMRC Simon Shaw would be a great color-commentator too. Good ideas expressed in this one.

Simon Shaw is awesome! It would be great to hear what he saw in day 2 :-)

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33 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

All this winning the start talk reminds of of a Dennis Conner statement which went something like this =>

Winning the start isn't that important, nor is even getting to the first mark.  It's the first leeward mark that is most important.  

We're getting blasted on the first reach despite getting an even start, but more than making up for it with superior speed upwind.

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12 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

 Boat damage is way more of an issue for Artemis than ETNZ

How so if every race is now potentially the last race for Art??...NO will be super aggressive tomorrow.

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15 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

I doubt they'll do much of anything different for the reason you stated.  Boat damage is way more of an issue for Artemis than ETNZ

I don't get this. Seems like they would rather go down fighting - even totaling the boat - than end the day in great shape and having lost.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

How so if every race is now potentially the last race for Art??...NO will be super aggressive tomorrow.

Exactly - if they get hurt that's definitely the end whereas should NZL break they have a couple of points to spare

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1 minute ago, nroose said:

I don't get this. Seems like they would rather go down fighting - even totaling the boat - than end the day in great shape and having lost.

You do have to finish to win.  I hear what you are saying, but wait and see.  They won't be any more aggressive tomorrow than they have been.  

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1 minute ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

Exactly - if they get hurt that's definitely the end whereas should NZL break they have a couple of points to spare

Nah....NO is more of the Jesse James type when his back is to wall..the cemetery doesn't scare him when.he has nothing to lose. 

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12 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

We're getting blasted on the first reach despite getting an even start, but more than making up for it with superior speed upwind.

We are getting blasted on the reach because we have superior speed upwind.  It's a deliberate performance pay off by ETNZ, they seem to believe upwind performance is critical and they seem to be sorting the tactics to make the most of it more and more with every race.

Sparring with Artemis is really proving worthwhile in this regard because they look about as good as Oracle tactically.

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked

Bullshit

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8 minutes ago, Boybland said:

We are getting blasted on the reach because we have superior speed upwind.  It's a deliberate performance pay off by ETNZ, they seem to believe upwind performance is critical and they seem to be sorting the tactics to make the most of it more and more with every race.

Sparring with Artemis is really proving worthwhile in this regard because they look about as good as Oracle tactically.

Performance upwind is doing the job at least two thirds of the time, which should be enough to see us into the match.Just hope we can do it in the match. I suspect Oracle will be looking to balance their performance - trade a bit off wind speed for upwind go, and thus making the start more relevant. They won't want to be significantly slower upwind knowing that ETNZ are perfecting upwind passing.

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

Yes but she doesn't look to have a sailors mouth...this one does.

 

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

Performance upwind is doing the job at least two thirds of the time, which should be enough to see us into the match.Just hope we can do it in the match. I suspect Oracle will be looking to balance their performance - trade a bit off wind speed for upwind go, and thus making the start more relevant. They won't want to be significantly slower upwind knowing that ETNZ are perfecting upwind passing.

Until we see it in the match (assuming we get there) we have nothing but assumptions re our upwind superiority.  I'm not even convinced it has been properly tested against ART - in last 2 days the teams have gone for different boards.  It obviously looks that way but no conclusive proof yet.  Maybe tomorrow if the winds are fixed in the light range then we will have a proper answer.

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24 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

Exactly - if they get hurt that's definitely the end whereas should NZL break they have a couple of points to spare

If Artemis causes a collision with ETNZ and is deemed to be at fault, they're dq'ed and ETNZ goes to the Match v OR-XEROX, so Outterridge can be aggressive all he wants but he'll know one mistake and its all over for Artemis.

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Quote

Yes but she doesn't look to have a sailors mouth...this one does.

Reminds me of those Rachel Hunter rumors from AC2000 ;)

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28 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

Exactly - if they get hurt that's definitely the end whereas should NZL break they have a couple of points to spare

Assuming they can fix it. A serious failure during (or before) race 1 and NZL are packing their bags also. So don't be too surprised if their pre-starts tomorow are "passive"...

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1 minute ago, eurochild said:

Assuming they can fix it. A serious failure during (or before) race 1 and NZL are packing their bags also. So don't be too surprised if their pre-starts tomorow are "passive"...

Like I said - I don't think it'll be any different than what we've seen to date.

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7 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Until we see it in the match (assuming we get there) we have nothing but assumptions re our upwind superiority.  I'm not even convinced it has been properly tested against ART - in last 2 days the teams have gone for different boards.  It obviously looks that way but no conclusive proof yet.  Maybe tomorrow if the winds are fixed in the light range then we will have a proper answer.

I think the relative sizes of the boards is a bit of a clue as to the design thinking, the ETNZ ones generally look massive compared to other teams, even the heavy weather ones seem pretty big. 

The difference was still their yesterday even though the board situation was supposedly reversed and they have consistently caught pretty much everyone going to windward.

Even Oracle although Tom and Jimmy out thought them at the top mark in that first race and ETNZ somehow managed to sail straight over the boundary without noticing it in the second match up.

The difference looks to be most pronounced under 10 knots though, where the same setup that gives you good upwind speed also appears to give you more stable foiling, although it clearly hampers acceleration somewhat as evidenced in the race where ETNZ looked to have got the jump and Artemis simply out accelerated them from a worse start.

Don't be surprised if in the light Oracle somehow manage to stretch their 10% tips to ridiculous proportions come the final. (weird sexual inuendos somewhat intended).

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16 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Until we see it in the match (assuming we get there) we have nothing but assumptions re our upwind superiority.  I'm not even convinced it has been properly tested against ART - in last 2 days the teams have gone for different boards.  It obviously looks that way but no conclusive proof yet.  Maybe tomorrow if the winds are fixed in the light range then we will have a proper answer.

Interesting how the lack of reaching performance doesn't seem to be hindering their down wind speed. The larger boards getting too draggy at high speeds but okay with the lower running speeds.

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Now that is a cruel wound to us! 

Yup. That chick would give a jellyfish a hard on.

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Interesting how the lack of reaching performance doesn't seem to be hindering their down wind speed. The larger boards getting too draggy at high speeds but okay with the lower running speeds.

I think they just head a little deeper so the boards are still close to their intended operating speed.  There were a couple of times today where Artemis were showing a couple of knots advantage but with no change in the distance between the boats relative to the marks.

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15 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Interesting how the lack of reaching performance doesn't seem to be hindering their down wind speed. 

Yeah I find that interesting too.  Is it more that it is affecting the boat's acceleration rather than speed?

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In the near-fatal fuck-up in Race3 today, it was interesting to see Artemis flying down towards the finish but when ETNZ popped up on their foil and took off, they quickly ramped up to 37-38knts while Artemis was stuck at 34-35knts, and that was the difference in the end.

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13 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I think they just head a little deeper so the boards are still close to their intended operating speed.  There were a couple of times today where Artemis were showing a couple of knots advantage but with no change in the distance between the boats relative to the marks.

The Groupama designer fellow in the video a few pages back presented the foil issue as effectively applying a maximum speed at which cavitation starts to hold the foil back. Which would be consistent with ETNZ not matching on the reach but not really suffering on the downwind.

 

Edited by eurochild
Checked the link was correct

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50 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Until we see it in the match (assuming we get there) we have nothing but assumptions re our upwind superiority.  I'm not even convinced it has been properly tested against ART - in last 2 days the teams have gone for different boards.  It obviously looks that way but no conclusive proof yet.  Maybe tomorrow if the winds are fixed in the light range then we will have a proper answer.

it is a little uncertain but not completely.  remember that despite not winning against oracle in the qf we did create some opportunities and passes in both races.  I think what is playing out as 60/30 for NZ/Art might be a little more even pickings for NZ/OR.  

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2 minutes ago, Qman said:

it is a little uncertain but not completely.  remember that despite not winning against oracle in the qf we did create some opportunities and passes in both races.  I think what is playing out as 60/30 for NZ/Art might be a little more even pickings for NZ/OR.  

Artemis beat Oracle consistently and thoroughly in practice racing leading up to the regatta, and beat them twice in the qualifiers too.  Oracle are not necessarily faster than Artemis or ETNZ

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20 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I think they just head a little deeper so the boards are still close to their intended operating speed.  There were a couple of times today where Artemis were showing a couple of knots advantage but with no change in the distance between the boats relative to the marks.

Yep, downwind VMG looks pretty good.

10 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Yeah I find that interesting too.  Is it more that it is affecting the boat's acceleration rather than speed?

Affects ultimate top speed for sure - why we're getting smoked on the reach. Acceleration out of a tack or gybe seems fine though.

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4 hours ago, Sailabout said:

whats the aussie connection?

The model car representing Chevy in NASCAR this year is the Chevy SS.  The retail model is imported from Australia, a re-badged Holden Commodore..  

That fact takes a bit of air out of some Redneck NASCAR fans that bitch and moan about a Jap make in NASCAR in Toyota.  

Actually, between the Chevy SS, Ford Fusion and Toyota Camry only the Camry is 100% made, well assembled, in the USA.  Pretty funny actually.

WetHog   :ph34r:

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13 minutes ago, Indio said:

In the near-fatal fuck-up in Race3 today, it was interesting to see Artemis flying down towards the finish but when ETNZ popped up on their foil and took off, they quickly ramped up to 37-38knts while Artemis was stuck at 34-35knts, and that was the difference in the end.

PB had to press the turbo button..

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