zillafreak

Live Racing Thread

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Yep, downwind VMG looks pretty good.

Affects ultimate top speed for sure - why we're getting smoked on the reach. Acceleration out of a tack or gybe seems fine though.

Thats because they are not dropping off the foils, the issue seems to be acceleration from a standing start when the foils, including the retracted one are fully submerged.  ETNZ also have vertically very long right up to the maximum length foils which probably makes the issue worse.

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30 minutes ago, Indio said:

In the near-fatal fuck-up in Race3 today, it was interesting to see Artemis flying down towards the finish but when ETNZ popped up on their foil and took off, they quickly ramped up to 37-38knts while Artemis was stuck at 34-35knts, and that was the difference in the end.

Just a better angle of sail, the finish line was basically straight to leeward of the last gate and Artemis were pushing down to it, ETNZ had a bit more reach in their angle of sail which basically saved their asses, they also had leeward advantage and pushed Artemis up a little forcing them to readjust their trim.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

NBC would be much better served to have Jenny Tulloch doing some race commentary - great sailor and does great interviews. I may be slightly biased since she is from Houston but I don't think so - it's just knowledge, talent and knowing when to shut up. 

Yes Genny is great in front of the camera, very good producer too. The video tribute she produced of Bart Simpson was outstanding.

How much cooler would it be if she was driving a boat? She's plenty qualified.

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2 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Thats because they are not dropping off the foils, the issue seems to be acceleration from a standing start when the foils, including the retracted one are fully submerged.  ETNZ also have vertically very long right up to the maximum length foils which probably makes the issue worse.

ETNZ had to grind a foil with perhaps >500kg of lift down about 2m after that gate fuckup.  that is about 7s of 1.5kW output.  Not so easy. 

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7 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Cheers

Just stopped making it too as the plant is closing

Real bummer to read that, in regards to the lost jobs.

The Chevy SS wasn't the only re-branded Holden sold in the US this century.  The reborn Pontiac GTO was a re-branded Holden Monaro.  Last model year was 2006.  Cool car that has turned into an interesting modified muscle car in the states.  At least where I live.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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50 minutes ago, Qman said:

exactly, we know that Art are fast on their day, and hard to catch when sailing perfectly,  but they have rarely sailed perfectly.  race 2 day 1 is the closest they have come. 

 

ART have a sweet spot, as we have seen in 2 races, but TNZ manages to hang in there, but is not able to pass.

In other circumstance when TNZ gets in front, they just pull away.

 

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9 hours ago, generative.design said:

Those things are probably mostly a question of technique and training. What's missing is a proper discussion of tactics as between NO and Perce, or JS and Slingsby

Precious little opportunity to discuss stuff

Given the choice, if you can sail a tidy race without having to talk (i.e. have complete confidence in the helm), that's going to be better than the distraction of talking

Higher risk strategy for sure, but one that will pay off if it works

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Real bummer to read that, in regards to the lost jobs.

The Chevy SS wasn't the only re-branded Holden sold in the US this century.  The reborn Pontiac GTO was a re-branded Holden Monaro.  Last model year was 2006.  Cool car that has turned into an interesting modified muscle car in the states.  At least where I live.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Caddys  In the middle east also came from oz i believe

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

I think they just head a little deeper so the boards are still close to their intended operating speed.  There were a couple of times today where Artemis were showing a couple of knots advantage but with no change in the distance between the boats relative to the marks.

Agreed. If that morning the foil manager came to you and said "We have a high lift foil that will be slow over 40 knots on the first reach, match them for VMG downwind, and have much better VMG upwind, oh and better tacks and gybes with more lift - do you want it or something else "

"Hmm, about 45 seconds for one reach, 2 minutes downwind x number of legs, 4 minutes upwind x number of legs -I'll take it!"

The fact that you spend a lot more time going upwind means whoever is optimised for upwind speed will win most of the time. As Boybland says, if you start overspeeding your board downwind, you just bear away. The only time this isn't an option is the short reach leg at the start. Just follow them around, arrange a split at the bottom mark, and sail past upwind.

 

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Martin Fisher said a board has a range of 25kts from liftoff to top end

It just creates more drag if you get to the top end so limits the speed

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

Nah, its OR-BDA

I think not. After all we must keep the naming protocol consistent. OTUSA-AUS. Welcome your antipodean overlords.

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8 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

I think not. After all we must keep the naming protocol consistent. OTUSA-AUS. Welcome your antipodean overlords.

always thought it was

One

 Rich

  Asshole

    Called

      Larry

       Ellison

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There's a lot of focus on pre-starts. Even in the presser, NO was questioned about his starting skills, and was implying he had Pete's number in the pre-start box. Pete quietly smiled at that statement, because he knows, crossing the start line first doesn't get you a point. Crossing the finish line first does. Pete made an emphatic statement when he said "they felt confident in their ability to be able to run them down"

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28 minutes ago, 167149 said:

always thought it was

One

 Rich

  Asshole

    Called

      Larry

       Ellison

Close - actually the "O" is for Obnoxious.......

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6 minutes ago, sclarke said:

There's a lot of focus on pre-starts. Even in the presser, NO was questioned about his starting skills, and was implying he had Pete's number in the pre-start box. Pete quietly smiled at that statement, because he knows, crossing the start line first doesn't get you a point. Crossing the finish line first does. Pete made an emphatic statement when he said "they felt confident in their ability to be able to run them down"

I finally got to watch the presser, I think what Pete trying to convey was.

Look guys the setup we had was NEVER going to win the starts today, but it meant we were fast as fuck upwind so stop bloody asking about it! 

Nathan obviously knew this as well when he alluded to how ETNZ simply had no real interest in engaging in the start box.

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13 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I finally got to watch the presser, I think what Pete trying to convey was.

Look guys the setup we had was NEVER going to win the starts today, but it meant we were fast as fuck upwind so stop bloody asking about it! 

Nathan obviously knew this as well when he alluded to how ETNZ simply had no real interest in engaging in the start box.

Yup. ETNZ knew that ART owned the first reach. Getting in front of them at the start would have been dangerous. Slightly to leeward and slightly behind is a safe place. An extra 4 knots of VMG upwind was very handy...

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18 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Yup. ETNZ knew that ART owned the first reach. Getting in front of them at the start would have been dangerous. Slightly to leeward and slightly behind is a safe place. An extra 4 knots of VMG upwind was very handy...

Nathan looked a bit defeated.

I guess it's one thing to be 3 down against Japan that haven't shown any real superiority over you but quite another to be down against etnz who have passed Artemis more than most people pass wind.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Nathan looked a bit defeated.

I guess it's one thing to be 3 down against Japan that haven't shown any real superiority over you but quite another to be down against etnz who have passed Artemis more than most people pass wind.

Ouch.

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9 hours to go and windguru is predicting 7kts gusting to 8kts from southeast.  Artemis is doomed, should be able to get back to bed for a bit after the race.

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dont completely write art off in the light wind. i don't think we have seen then with there true light wind setup.  although france beat thing in lighter  range i think?

 

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6 hours ago, Boybland said:

We are getting blasted on the reach because we have superior speed upwind.  It's a deliberate performance pay off by ETNZ, they seem to believe upwind performance is critical and they seem to be sorting the tactics to make the most of it more and more with every race.

Sparring with Artemis is really proving worthwhile in this regard because they look about as good as Oracle tactically.

Agreed. Upwind speed won the last cup- hopefully history repeats.

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2 minutes ago, Tommy22 said:

Agreed. Upwind speed won the last cup- hopefully history repeats.

all the passing opportunities are on the upwind.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Qman said:

all the passing opportunities are on the upwind.  

 

Except when they don't know where the finish line is, maybe. Too close for comfort, that one!

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Except when they don't know where the finish line is, maybe. Too close for comfort, that one!

yeah, they trying to talk around it.  but they were going right not left, was the earlier courses the other way?
 

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I got to say ART is my 2nd Fav team.

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14 minutes ago, Qman said:

all the passing opportunities are on the upwind.  

 

This. Unless pressure forces an error elsewhere.

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7 minutes ago, Qman said:

yeah, they trying to talk around it.  but they were going right not left, was the earlier courses the other way?
 

Yes. Apparently the course was changed. You'd have to think they'd have been notified of a course change too, wouldn't you? Inexplicable.

Imagine if ART had got there first. Faaark.

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Except when they don't know where the finish line is, maybe. Too close for comfort, that one!

I missed this if discussed earlier. Why the fuck was the finish different today?

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3 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I missed this if discussed earlier. Why the fuck was the finish different today?

I have no idea. I heard the discussion about it on the Radio NZ commentary. That the re-laid finish line was directly down wind, for some strange reason.

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13 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I missed this if discussed earlier. Why the fuck was the finish different today?

The finish line is always infront of the AC village. Depending on the wind direction and settng of the course, the final leg to the finish is often in a different relationship to the leeward gate.

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55 minutes ago, Foyle said:

9 hours to go and windguru is predicting 7kts gusting to 8kts from southeast.  Artemis is doomed, should be able to get back to bed for a bit after the race.

I could handle that!!

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33 minutes ago, marlowe said:

The finish line is always infront of the AC village. Depending on the wind direction and settng of the course, the final leg to the finish is often in a different relationship to the leeward gate.

Ta

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1 hour ago, marlowe said:

The finish line is always infront of the AC village. Depending on the wind direction and settng of the course, the final leg to the finish is often in a different relationship to the leeward gate.

Basically think of the dumbest place possible to try and force 50 knot sail boats to come to a sudden stop, that's where the finish line will always be!

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Does ETNZ get to take a point into the Cup if they can sail their boat directly into RCs forehead?

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1 minute ago, Nutta said:

Does ETNZ get to take a point into the Cup if they can sail their boat directly into RCs forehead?

Don't be stupid, the size of his forehead would make it too easy!!

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13 hours ago, Barnyb said:

I have a shot of Rachel Sawden naked, but I won't be posting it.

Rest assured, its some nice flesh!

Well, this is very sad

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4 hours ago, marlowe said:

The finish line is always infront of the AC village. Depending on the wind direction and settng of the course, the final leg to the finish is often in a different relationship to the leeward gate.

 

if the breeze is SW, it will be a reach.., as it goes S or SE, it becomes more of a run

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NZ just got the world record for the most number of people setting their alarm clocks early ....which is a fuckin big ask for them ... normally they only get up collectively as a country at the crack of noon.

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I have just disected every weather model going around and not one forecasts more than 10k for race time. Current local observations support that. 

While that forecast is arguably not in AR's favour, whoever ends up on top today is clearly the best credentialled in various conditions of all the challengers to go out and  hopefully send Larry into a apolyptic fit where he sucks his own dick and dies of too much money poisoning.

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I would not encourage the ETNZ fans to start counting those chickens just yet, anything is still possible even if the Kiwi boat has an edge in the light.

You never know, remember Mighty Mary way in front of DC in the final defender race of '95?

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15 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I would not encourage the ETNZ fans to start counting those chickens just yet, anything is still possible even if the Kiwi boat has an edge in the light.

You never know, remember Mighty Mary way in front of DC in the final defender race of '95?

Or being at the wrong end of the biggest sports comeback in history...

 

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16 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I would not encourage the ETNZ fans to start counting those chickens just yet, anything is still possible even if the Kiwi boat has an edge in the light.

You never know, remember Mighty Mary way in front of DC in the final defender race of '95?

yeah, and then he commandeered their boat for the actual cup race.  in what was then considered shenanigans.  How simple things were in the cup back then.  Now, Larryland can just co-opt every rule that ever existed by poodle mutual consent and get Wusselvision fail to happen.

THAT is why I am solidly rooting for ETNZ (and praying to God they get their match racing act together.)

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44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I have just disected every weather model going around and not one forecasts more than 10k for race time. Current local observations support that. 

While that forecast is arguably not in AR's favour, whoever ends up on top today is clearly the best credentialled in various conditions of all the challengers to go out and  hopefully send Larry into a apolyptic fit where he sucks his own dick and dies of too much money poisoning.

GFS is 8-10kts so about on track so far..., but the actual direction is a bit right of GFS forecast

the Bermuda human forecast is SSE 8-12kts 

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Some people are there....some are on keyboards where it is dark and the cows need milking shortly.

 

is that the $200 micro bottle of champaign?  The G&T in front of my 65 inch TV set is just as cold, the coverage is better (commentators excepted) and the money I save on the trip buys a new boat for the kid.

Good job Bermuda - you have proven that a half empty grandstand that you must finish in front of - even if it is DDW of the leeward gate provides sufficient economic impact in LarryDollars to justify the money you spent.

PLEASE God let NZ win and put this competition back in the hands of the sailors.

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Pretty damn good stuff eh everyone? I've enen got my 14 year old a bit hooked.

Was yesterday the first time the boats were exceeding 40 knts regularly or have I meissed it? Anyone got a high boat speed for the regatta to this point?

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33 minutes ago, Loose Cannon said:

yeah, and then he commandeered their boat for the actual cup race.  

I think he beat Mighty Mary in the final race but he actually opted to sail Young America in the Match itself rather than Stars & Stripes

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11 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Yes Genny is great in front of the camera, very good producer too. The video tribute she produced of Bart Simpson was outstanding.

How much cooler would it be if she was driving a boat? She's plenty qualified.

Thanks for correcting the spelling of her name - sometimes I just ain't that bright.  And it would be awesome to see her driving, at a time when people keep talking about getting more women involved why aren't they actually doing it?  

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1 hour ago, Mariner said:

Pretty damn good stuff eh everyone? I've enen got my 14 year old a bit hooked.

Was yesterday the first time the boats were exceeding 40 knts regularly or have I meissed it? Anyone got a high boat speed for the regatta to this point?

Top ten from all races in the Semi's and (so far) Finals:

Max_Speed    Date    Race           Boat
47.22    06:06:2017    17060624    SWE
47.20    06:06:2017    17060624    JPN
47.08    09:06:2017    17060928    SWE
46.75    09:06:2017    17060928    JPN
46.26    06:06:2017    17060613    NZL
46.13    06:06:2017    17060613    GBR
44.71    05:06:2017    17060511    NZL
44.65    08:06:2017    17060815    GBR
44.61    05:06:2017    17060521    SWE
44.34    08:06:2017    17060815    NZL

 

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

yeah, and then he commandeered their boat for the actual cup race.  in what was then considered shenanigans.  How simple things were in the cup back then.  Now, Larryland can just co-opt every rule that ever existed by poodle mutual consent and get Wusselvision fail to happen.

THAT is why I am solidly rooting for ETNZ (and praying to God they get their match racing act together.)

He used the Mermaid boat from Young America, not MM. (John Marshall was running the YA team) The defending club has the right to choose the defending boat for the match, precedent set way back in the 2nd match when they could choose from 3 or 4 boats named as defender candidates.

Now, if LE wanted to go with the AR boat against ETNZ that would be another matter, and not that shocking the way things are run now.

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13 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

I'd be interested to see another column in those data - i.e., the boats that won the races in which the top speeds were recorded.

 

Secs_Delta is 'Won-By', 0.00 was a loss

Date               Race           Boat    Max_Speed    Secs_Delta
06:06:2017    17060624    SWE    47.22    0.00
06:06:2017    17060624    JPN     47.20    26.69
09:06:2017    17060928    SWE    47.08    12.40
09:06:2017    17060928    JPN     46.75    0.00
06:06:2017    17060613    NZL     46.26    129.92
06:06:2017    17060613    GBR    46.13    0.00
05:06:2017    17060511    NZL     44.71    0.00
08:06:2017    17060815    GBR    44.65    0.00
05:06:2017    17060521    SWE    44.61    0.00
08:06:2017    17060815    NZL     44.34    31.49

 

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9 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Hopefully the wind and from the new direction will settle in.

Is this the last possible day for the Finals?

That's what I was wondering... If so, then the 1sec delta yesterday decided who goes on for the AC... Crazy!

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1 hour ago, zillafreak said:

Or being at the wrong end of the biggest sports comeback in history...

 

Sweetheart didn't want to rub our noses in it again. Thanks dear!

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3 minutes ago, rustylaru said:

Anyone got a livestream link?

My usual info (getting longer and longer):

First of all: Make sure your antivir is up to date, and you have an adblocker running!

Choose one of the streams here: http://live.robinwidget.org/
A selection:
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913020.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913010.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913210.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/streamvideo8/sailing-vs-35th-americas-cup-2017-live-stream-1845137.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/streamvideo8/sailing-vs-35th-americas-cup-2017-live-stream-2477928.html

If this doesn't work, you can try here:
   https://www.vipbox.nu/sports/water-sports.html
here
   http://www.stream2watch.cc/live-television/united-kingdom/bt-1-live-stream-2017
or here: 
    Look for BT1/scroll down: http://cricfree.sc/bt-sport-1-live-stream-1


The press conferences are streamed here: https://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup/videos

Replays of both round robins, although with German/Austrian common-tree (you may need to get a German IP address): http://www.servustv.com/de/Videos/America-s-Cup
Here the replays of the more recent races: http://www.servustv.com/de/Sendungen/America-s-Cup-2017

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

My usual info (getting longer and longer):

First of all: Make sure your antivir is up to date, and you have an adblocker running!

Choose one of the streams here: http://live.robinwidget.org/
A selection:
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913020.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913010.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/static/freeplayer/47507908913210.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/streamvideo8/sailing-vs-35th-americas-cup-2017-live-stream-1845137.html
   http://live.robinwidget.org/streamvideo8/sailing-vs-35th-americas-cup-2017-live-stream-2477928.html

If this doesn't work, you can try here:
   https://www.vipbox.nu/sports/water-sports.html
here
   http://www.stream2watch.cc/live-television/united-kingdom/bt-1-live-stream-2017
or here: 
    Look for BT1/scroll down: http://cricfree.sc/bt-sport-1-live-stream-1


The press conferences are streamed here: https://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup/videos

Replays of both round robins, although with German/Austrian common-tree (you may need to get a German IP address): http://www.servustv.com/de/Videos/America-s-Cup
Here the replays of the more recent races: http://www.servustv.com/de/Sendungen/America-s-Cup-2017

Ok all set.

Thank you again

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3 minutes ago, generative.design said:

I believe it is, as there are other regattas scheduled for Tue-Fri

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-2017-louis-vuitton-race-schedule-official-16030.php

The line about 'Due to broadcast restrictions.. ' says final dates won't be extended.

If they can't run 3 races today then all it's all over for AR.

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1 minute ago, Xlot said:

 

Superyacht regattas: how low can you get?

 

Completely separate event, and in a completely different location. But today may still be the final date for any Finals racing.

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3 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Stingers,

I've heard the Challenger Final has to be decided 2 Days before the AC Match begins that would be Thursday.

Got a link?

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Got a link?

The sailing instructions are here:

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDo3MWQ1ZjgxYThhNjY2NDRh

Relevant section is right at the top:

Quote

As agreed with the Commercial Commissioner:

(a) any day where no racing is scheduled may be used for racing if the event is behind

schedule;

(b) that:

(i) the Qualifiers shall be terminated at the end of June 3.

(ii) the Semi Finals shall be terminated at the end of June 9;

(iii) the Challenger Playoffs shall be terminated at the end of June 15.

(iv) The 35th America’s Cup Match shall continue until the winner is determined in

accordance with Protocol Article 20.1(c); and

(c) if behind schedule, the Regatta Director may schedule races missed to be run in the

time after the broadcast window.

 

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

At the end of June 15. That means as I stated above they'll have until Thursday to complete it IF NEEDED.

Yep. But hopefully we get (up to) 3 competitive races run today.

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challengers have to be good across the whole wind range to get to the finals, which requires design compromises - did AR not plan for the lighter wind forecast years ago in the latter part of the event??

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Competitive? ART is done in light air IMO.

I wish it was best of 11 or something. If Art gets knocked out today I will be sad even as a TNZ fan. There's just not enough racing in this cup. Race course to small etc.

I wish the format could be mixed up for a percentage of the races, like no boundries for 25% of the races or something to mix it up a bit.

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4 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Anything below 10 knots average Artemis is in deep trouble, beyond that they can compete but even then a win isn't certain. Yes, in some ways I'll be sad too BUT Nathan & Iain have only themselves to blame. If you're rounding Mark 1 in first place 6 for 6 and can only hold it together 2 Times to win you're not going to deserve being in the Match IMO.

I don't think blame is constructive evaluation in complex organizations in technical challenges.  

Big decisions were made many months ago that are playing out now. I think Artemis should be proud of there efforts. They have really raised their game in this cycle.

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New to this corner of SA.  Are folks usually posting comments and status updates live during racing?  Stuck in an office/meeting working but could glance at this once in a while... or is there a better source?

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Earth to SA AC...

Anybody got a good source for following written comments live during racing?  Help a desk bound meeting slammed fool out plz...

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AR over early in unforced error (will repear Annie Gerdners facebook posts)

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