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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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So, ETNZ was quick today.

A few mistakes too, but the best possible start to the Match.

Looking forward to Sunday.

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16 minutes ago, MidPack said:

And from the second race today, after the stunning upwind comeback at the end of the last beat, after the rounding what on earth happened on OR's gybe? JS said it wasn't lack of oil, but why one of their worst gybes ever at a crucial moment? At first it looked like a breakdown as they all looked confused for a moment. When they got their act back together of course ETNZ was 400-500 meters ahead again.

He claimed they lost a rudder but to me it looked like they just didn't have any oil left - to admit that at this stage would be a massive admission though hence his cage reply in the presser IMO.  If you look at the final couple of minutes of that leg, it should have been ETNZ with less oil given they did a low speed tack with a furious speed build to get back on the foils followed by a pretty quick gybe after the gate.  The fact that OR didn't have enough left after tacking a lot earlier will be a massive concern for them as it will make it very difficult to cover if ETNZ opts to break in similar conditions.

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37 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Am I paranoid or are all the BT commentary team for an Oracle win?

 

29 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

They must be getting briefing notes from Ken Read. 

BT are using the same Ken Read reed as everyone else, right? Unless we're talking about the studio team, rather than the commentary team?

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I think OTUSA better get fracking.

They need to top up their oil reserves real fast. ;)

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My observation of the first two races is that ETNZ has a slight boatspeed advantage, better height upwind at similar boatspeeds and being able to soak downwind at the same speeds.  The 1st race starting penalty was not important, and ETNZ's belly flop at the end of race 2 wasn't enough to allow ORUSA to overtake (barely).  For those with cognitive dissonance, please observe ETNZ  was ahead by 400-600 meters at times in both races.

ORUSA better work harder on optimizing boatspeed in 6-9kn winds or they will lose the Cup. Extended forecasts for next weekend are @ 12kn both days, but I've learned Bermuda forecasts are iffy.  Since the Cup races are only four days, two days a weekend apart, it could be the Cup is won in light air conditions by the light air optimized boat.  That would sadden me; it's most exciting when they are powered up (15-18kn) and it's a raging cage match in 18-24kn.

Some magic innovations could improve OTUSA in the light stuff, but I doubt it.  Let us pray for bigger winds next weekend or ORUSA is toast.  Funny thing is the LV races were predicted to be varying winds, with the late June AC races suffering in light air.  Personally, light but sailable air rises the cream to the top; anybody can power up in wind and with superior hardware win.  Light air is a different game.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jawjaw said:

 

BT are using the same Ken Read reed as everyone else, right? Unless we're talking about the studio team, rather than the commentary team?

The BT studio team are basically 2 Artemis guys and the horse lady. The Artemis guys are super bias against ETNZ. It was nowhere near as bad today, as it was for the other matches against BAR and Artemis. Don't mind a bit of bias to a home team but at times it OTT, and to assume the UK sailing community favor oracle seems a bit of a reach to me. Shirley out on the course is well ingrained in Artemis as well though she seems a lot more level.

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22 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

So, ETNZ was quick today.

A few mistakes too, but the best possible start to the Match.

Looking forward to Sunday.

Sunday is Father's Day in the US - 2 more ETNZ wins would help me celebrate.

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If Jimmy thinks he doesn't have the necessary boat speed, he'll be working hard for penalties at every opportunity on Sunday.

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36 minutes ago, MidPack said:

From the first race today, I guess we'll never know what happened to ETNZ on the last mark rounding gybe, it looked like PB thought he was finished. He started walking forward like he was going to congratulate others? I heard someone aboard say 'better go grab the wheel mate' just before PB scampered across to resume the finishing leg.

And from the second race today, after the stunning upwind comeback at the end of the last beat, after the rounding what on earth happened on OR's gybe? JS said it wasn't lack of oil, but why one of their worst gybes ever at a crucial moment? At first it looked like a breakdown as they all looked confused for a moment. When they got their act back together of course ETNZ was 400-500 meters ahead again.

The pressers are pretty useless. PB says the same thing every day, every question - like a politician. And JS talks down to the media, though they usually deserve it with some of the dumb questions...

Have you SEEN my worldwide exclusive interview with Peter????

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9 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

If Jimmy thinks he doesn't have the necessary boat speed, he'll be working hard for penalties at every opportunity on Sunday.

Pistol Pete is cleaning his Glock G21, as we exchange digits.

I'm pretty sure he'll be ready for Jimmy.

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This guy...One minute he's calling the Kiwi's out. Next minute he's heaping the praise on. Its like someone has gone to both Coutts and Spithill and told them enough is enough of the media antics. Lets just all get along...

 

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9 minutes ago, sclarke said:

This guy...One minute he's calling the Kiwi's out. Next minute he's heaping the praise on. Its like someone has gone to both Coutts and Spithill and told them enough is enough of the media antics. Lets just all get along...

 

He's a Swedish American now.......

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2 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

He's a Swedish American now.......

I guess he may be coming home soon?

No, Queen Street Parade this time though eh.

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I still don't understand just what happened during that gybe. Right after the turn it looked like they were out of phase, with people running back and forth..

vlcsnap-2017-06-17-22h53m42s885.thumb.jpg.a1676c41fcbd8f7990f2bb443401aa28.jpg

.. it looks like they simply didn't have hydro to execute the turn but 5 seconds later, instead of grinding away to rectify the situation, they were just sitting there with their hands folded, more or less..

vlcsnap-2017-06-17-22h53m55s007.thumb.jpg.ff1a0623f4b90cc4622ff14654cb6667.jpg

 

I assume the distance lost was bad but not quite this bad  B)

vlcsnap-2017-06-17-22h55m06s332.thumb.jpg.653f304b501aded5fa6aa7cdf36b17b8.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, MidPack said:

From the first race today, I guess we'll never know what happened to ETNZ on the last mark rounding gybe, it looked like PB thought he was finished. He started walking forward like he was going to congratulate others? 

Yes PB thought it was finished, dumped it and wandered off! Good video clip on the TNZ thread.

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@generative.design Agree, at the time I thought they'd muffed the gybe and fallen into a wind hole, but the body language was confusing. Wanted to watch the on board on the replay but they don't have it running for that.

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58 minutes ago, ezyb said:

He claimed they lost a rudder but to me it looked like they just didn't have any oil left - to admit that at this stage would be a massive admission though hence his cage reply in the presser IMO.  If you look at the final couple of minutes of that leg, it should have been ETNZ with less oil given they did a low speed tack with a furious speed build to get back on the foils followed by a pretty quick gybe after the gate.  The fact that OR didn't have enough left after tacking a lot earlier will be a massive concern for them as it will make it very difficult to cover if ETNZ opts to break in similar conditions.

Only thing I have enjoyed watching more than the TDF is the AC. And now we get both. 

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3 hours ago, desprit said:

Blaming your bad start on a software issue is not a good career move if you are on Oracle. 

30 sec to the start, 28, 27... java update... fuck! OCS.

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3 hours ago, DevsNzL said:

They lost hydro, I think this is where the benefit of cyclors comes into it. 

It was actually worse than that, if you look at the gybe they don't let their jib through either. So post-gybe their jib being on the wrong side probably reducing wing power by 50% at such a low speed. Whether they ran out of hydro or not they had bungled it anyway with the jib - that's worth a stack of distance even if you spot it within a second or two as it's completely buggered the flow around the wing.

Panicked mistake or other issue?

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9 minutes ago, Nutta said:

30 sec to the start, 28, 27... java update... fuck! OCS.

Fucking gold! :-)

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1 hour ago, MidPack said:

From the first race today, I guess we'll never know what happened to ETNZ on the last mark rounding gybe, it looked like PB thought he was finished. He started walking forward like he was going to congratulate others? I heard someone aboard say 'better go grab the wheel mate' just before PB scampered across to resume the finishing leg.

And from the second race today, after the stunning upwind comeback at the end of the last beat, after the rounding what on earth happened on OR's gybe? JS said it wasn't lack of oil, but why one of their worst gybes ever at a crucial moment? At first it looked like a breakdown as they all looked confused for a moment. When they got their act back together of course ETNZ was 400-500 meters ahead again.

The pressers are pretty useless. PB says the same thing every day, every question - like a politician. And JS talks down to the media, though they usually deserve it with some of the dumb questions...

I definitely thought PB believed the race finished the way he casually walked across the tramp. 

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23 minutes ago, Nutta said:

30 sec to the start, 28, 27... java update... fuck! OCS.

Oh how frikkin true......

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2 hours ago, DayTripper said:

Am I paranoid or are all the BT commentary team for an Oracle win?

Nothing exists outside of America for Americans.

It's brainwashed into them from an early age.

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26 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Sailor Girl

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Photobomb at 2:58

Wow. Photobomb of the century right there. Who said, Pete was boring?

Screen Shot 2017-06-18 at 10.20.39 AM.png

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10 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Nothing exists outside of America for Americans.

It's brainwashed into them from an early age.

And it's not like Trump will change that anytime soon, either.

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30 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I definitely thought PB believed the race finished the way he casually walked across the tramp. 

Jeeezus. Imagine how far in front he would have been, had he was concentrating! ;)

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31 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Photobomb at 2:58

Would pay $100 to see Pete flashing rabbit ears behind Jimmy's head. 

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Jeeezus. Imagine how far in front he would have been, had he was concentrating! ;)

LOL .... my goodness but he is calm as can be while the rest of us clutched our hearts and looked for a bucket. Tremendous result, roll on tomorrow!!

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

 

 

Wow. Photobomb of the century right there. Who said, Pete was boring?

Screen Shot 2017-06-18 at 10.20.39 AM.png

V for factory, 2 for two!

Best sledge ever!

 

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

V for factory, 2 for two!

Best sledge ever!

 

Yes that truly is gold.

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It was clear that something was going on with ETNZ half way up that leg, the dropped to 12 knots at one stage but do the commentators notice? No, they're too busy waffling about oracle. Then as ETNZ are fighting that bad shift it would have been a perfect time for the graphics to show the lead distance lines, but the producers didn't manage that either. It was a joke. 

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Great interview with the Cyclors on WoW. The boys were talking about how they manage the effort and pain barrier, talking about the usual symptoms of loss of hearing, loss of sight, and even losing mental capacity like knowing you have to get over the other side of the boat. 

Respect.

What awesome athletes. 

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2 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Great interview with the Cyclors on WoW. The boys were talking about how they manage the effort and pain barrier, talking about the usual symptoms of loss of hearing, loss of sight, and even losing mental capacity like knowing you have to get over the other side of the boat. 

Respect.

What awesome athletes. 

Woulda like to see that interview. What is WoW?

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Interviews, yeh, that's the ticket, just show the interviews. And stills from the race footage, yeh, lots of stills of the race footage. And more interviews and background pieces, yeh, that's the ticket. Because who wants to watch replays of the actual races? Losers, that's who, winners want to play the video re-enactment as true particiapnts always do, yeh.

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1 hour ago, eurochild said:

Yes PB thought it was finished, dumped it and wandered off! Good video clip on the TNZ thread.

That would be seriously dumb if true. It was a little comical watching Burling walking towards the cyclors before turning and sprinting back to the wheel...

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

That would be seriously dumb if true. It was a little comical watching Burling walking towards the cyclors before turning and sprinting back to the wheel...

Haha yea, a bit of shit in the bed there...

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For ourselves, we were amazing out there today.

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Jimmy got shagged by Pete in both starts..

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15 minutes ago, HP2 said:

Woulda like to see that interview. What is WoW?

World of Water mate.

Id copy the link but am out and about.

it was in the prelude video to today's racing. 

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I just got finished watching the racing after getting back in town from a Lacrosse tournament.  Some boring shit.  Here are my thoughts:

1.  OR-AUS better hope the wind picks up, and quick.  OR-AUS was so stuck to the water in this light wind the boat looked like a woolly mammoth dying a slow, agonizing, death in a tar pit.  

2.  Whats the deal with JS's wheel?  At first I thought it was decorated with snake skin, but its camouflage isn't it?  Whatever the color, looks like there is to much shit going on on JS's wheel.

3.  LVC on the wings and no America's Cup insignia?  Cheesy.

4.  As said before, boring racing.  And what a waste of that bullshit earned 1 point by OR-AUS.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I just got finished watching the racing after getting back in town from a Lacrosse tournament.  Some boring shit.  Here are my thoughts:

1.  OR-AUS better hope the wind picks up, and quick.  OR-AUS was so stuck to the water in this light wind the boat looked like a woolly mammoth dying a slow, agonizing, death in a tar pit.  

2.  Whats the deal with JS's wheel?  At first I thought it was decorated with snake skin, but its camouflage isn't it?  Whatever the color, looks like there is to much shit going on on JS's wheel.

3.  LVC on the wings and no America's Cup insignia?  Cheesy.

4.  As said before, boring racing.  And what a waste of that bullshit earned 1 point by OR-AUS.

WetHog  :ph34r:

So overall, would you agree it was a great opening day for ETNZ, Hoggie?

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

So overall, would you agree it was a great opening day for ETNZ, Hoggie?

Hard to say otherwise.  

How many wins to clinch?  Based on today it looks to be a sweep.

Then again, that ETNZ showing in AC34.....it aint over till its over.

Regardless, for Kiwi fans and those of us yearning for a new direction for the AC, today was a good day.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Just now, WetHog said:

Hard to say otherwise.  

How many wins to clinch?  Based on today it looks to be a sweep.

Then again, that ETNZ showing in AC34.....it aint over till its over.

Regardless, for Kiwi fans and those of us yearning for a new direction for the AC, today was a good day.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

You'll do me, mate. 

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26 minutes ago, kenergy said:

It was clear that something was going on with ETNZ half way up that leg, the dropped to 12 knots at one stage but do the commentators notice? No, they're too busy waffling about oracle. Then as ETNZ are fighting that bad shift it would have been a perfect time for the graphics to show the lead distance lines, but the producers didn't manage that either. It was a joke. 

Perhaps they didn't want to tack because of a light patch - stuck it out - and...

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Blair Tuke confirmed they had an issue - didn't say what it was, just they had something going on

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17 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Hard to say otherwise.  

How many wins to clinch?  Based on today it looks to be a sweep.

Then again, that ETNZ showing in AC34.....it aint over till its over.

Regardless, for Kiwi fans and those of us yearning for a new direction for the AC, today was a good day.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Amen my Brother. Amen

 

WL

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12 minutes ago, KZ-1 said:

Why are they still sailing with LV logos instead of the Cup logo? 

Maybe they don't wanna jinx it, prob a superstition or something

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33 minutes ago, KZ-1 said:

Why are they still sailing with LV logos instead of the Cup logo? 

LV sponsor the whole event now, not just the challenger series like they used to.

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Favourite quote from JS so far when asked if he'd like a repeat of the comeback of 2013: "Well, I'd prefer to win them all at the start [of the regatta] but we'll do whatever it takes."

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53 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

World of Water mate.

Id copy the link but am out and about.

it was in the prelude video to today's racing. 

Found it. Thanks very much.

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6 hours ago, jaysper said:

Pretty realistic for anyone who has ever tried to use their software.

Haha

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6 hours ago, sclarke said:

This guy...One minute he's calling the Kiwi's out. Next minute he's heaping the praise on. Its like someone has gone to both Coutts and Spithill and told them enough is enough of the media antics. Lets just all get along...

 

He knows where he'll be working soon

in a challenger base in NZL

 

One thing ORACLE has got their way with

They can finally run the numbers on the KIWI boat's performance

referenced to how much they need too to keep ahead 

@ the finish line

if the wind comes up it Just Might Release The BEAST within TNZ

DC didn't pop the top off the Can of Whoop Ass .. till it was time to serve !!

 

GO TEAM NEW ZEALAND !!!!!

And take the Cup with you !!!!!!!

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4 hours ago, KZ-1 said:

Why are they still sailing with LV logos instead of the   Cup   GGYC logo? 

same reason as original question

has Nothing to do with it !!!

 

Go TEAM New Zealand !!!

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1 hour ago, rgeek said:

OF course they have to get along. At this rate RC is going to be looing for employment from RNZYS.

zero 0, nip, nada chance of RC working for RNZYS 

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12 hours ago, DayTripper said:

Am I paranoid or are all the BT commentary team for an Oracle win?

If you are so am I. They've been anti Kiwi all event, probably part of the deal BA did with BT Sport over the UK rights. Almost as bad as A4E.

 

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Jimmy much more chippa in those standup interviews.

But still sounded about as convincing like NO trying to do psy-ops a few days back.

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10 hours ago, HP2 said:

Found it. Thanks very much.

Would have been nice if you had contributed to this community and posted the link, so that others can enjoy too. 

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14 hours ago, sclarke said:

This guy...One minute he's calling the Kiwi's out. Next minute he's heaping the praise on. Its like someone has gone to both Coutts and Spithill and told them enough is enough of the media antics. Lets just all get along..

Last roll of the dice to unsettle the Kiwis :)

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15 hours ago, Indio said:

That would be seriously dumb if true. It was a little comical watching Burling walking towards the cyclors before turning and sprinting back to the wheel...

Listen to the audio (NBC). PB lazily strolls forward a few steps, grabs a shroud, then someone (a cyclor?) says 'better go grab the wheel mate' or 'have a go at the wheel Pete.' And PB scampers across to windward and grabs the wheel. That's why I said he thought mark 6 was the finish. Nevertheless ETNZ was convincing in day 1.

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5 hours ago, laser 173312 said:

If you are so am I. They've been anti Kiwi all event, probably part of the deal BA did with BT Sport over the UK rights. Almost as bad as A4E.

 

No, it's the same as with Franck - if the Kiwis win, there's way more uncertainty and many of Ben and Perce's plans may not work out.  As go Ben and Perce, so goes the UK media.

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13 minutes ago, MidPack said:

Listen to the audio. PB strolls forward a few steps then someone (a cyclor?) says 'better go grab the wheel mate.' And PB scampers across to windward and grabs the wheel. That's why I said he thought mark 6 was the finish. Nevertheless ETNZ was convincing in day 1.

It sounded to me like Ashby, and it had some un-Ashby-like urgency to it, and there was a clear 'fuck' in there too. I heard "Pete, come and grab the wheel mate! Fuck!" then something I couldn't catch that seemed to include the word, 'still'. Then he says "big trim, please". There's a grab of this exchange on another thread.

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6 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

It sounded to me like Ashby, and it had some un-Ashby-like urgency to it, and there was a clear 'fuck' in there too. Wasn't it something like "Pete, come and grab the wheel mate! Fuck!" then something I couldn't catch that seemed to include the word, 'still'. Then he says "big trim, please".

 

This post:

 

 

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Anyone seen an analysis of the difference between the 2 boats light air foils?  They looked very different - ETNZ seemed to have 2 clear elbows below the water and ORCL-AUS seemed to have a flat wing with winglet.  I wont be surprised if ORCL-AUS has new boards by week's end.  Nothing like best-out-of 1001 races to give the money team time to copy....

 

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

No, it's the same as with Franck - if the Kiwis win, there's way more uncertainty and many of Ben and Perce's plans may not work out.  As go Ben and Perce, so goes the UK media.

I was trying not to say it's BT Sport commentators self interest, but as you mention it, yes it is.

It's not as though there was no coverage of 32nd, 33rd and 34th matches in UK (it was on Sky), there just wasn't the same hype as there was no team from the UK. 

In the 31st edition the BBC started covering the event due to GBR Challenge. They had a features before the cup, a competition on Blue Peter (an iconic UK kids program) to select boat names. Yet as soon as GBR were knocked out, BBC dropped the entire event.

 

Doesn't help that one of the team claims discrimination if anyone challenges what they say.

 

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18 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Photobomb at 2:58

I actually called Pete out on it too :P

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1 hour ago, cbulger said:

Anyone seen an analysis of the difference between the 2 boats light air foils?  They looked very different - ETNZ seemed to have 2 clear elbows below the water and ORCL-AUS seemed to have a flat wing with winglet.  I wont be surprised if ORCL-AUS has new boards by week's end.  Nothing like best-out-of 1001 races to give the money team time to copy....

 

Each team is only allowed 4 daggerboards (its in the rules), thought hey can slip on tip 'socks' of different shapes.  So no fundamental big changes to the 2 sets of boards already seen can occur.  Even making new tips at this stage is nearly impossible (only 4 days to design, simulate, make moulds, lay-up, finish and fit, and then test on friday, assuming wind is OK, prior to saturday racing)

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5 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Would have been nice if you had contributed to this community and posted the link, so that others can enjoy too. 

I thought I was the only person who didn't know what WoW was. Here you go:

 

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7 minutes ago, HP2 said:

I thought I was the only person who didn't know what WoW was. Here you go:

 

Thanks for digging this up and sharing.

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Oracle racing around everywhere like yesterday's. Kiwis resting, waiting ....

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4 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Oracle rumoured to have gone asymmetrical with their foils for today. Might be looking to win the first reach.

Well they have to try something don't they. Doing same thing and expecting a different result is first sign of madness! :)

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6 minutes ago, PJB said:

Well they have to try something don't they. Doing same thing and expecting a different result is first sign of madness! :)

It could backfire though if the wind drops. Still, interesting move by them.

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Can't see the major advantages of going Asymmetrical on the foils - trying to reach round a bordered course where your opponent can make better VMG towards the mark(s)??? I may be lost here...... Quite possible

 

 

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Seems Oracle are definitely on smaller foils today - very keen to win the first mark. They'll probably be quite aggressive in the starts today.

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6 minutes ago, PabloAU said:

Can't see the major advantages of going Asymmetrical on the foils - trying to reach round a bordered course where your opponent can make better VMG towards the mark(s)??? I may be lost here...... Quite possible

If true it means they're running possibly a smaller foil on the port side - so two different foils.

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Basically the situation is pretty much the same as yesterday, unless the wind picks up significantly from here on.. probably shifty af and with the potential of turning into a lottery.. but also ETNZ's favourite conditions B)

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21 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Great, they did not work for me at all today. But happy they did for you.
They should be the same every day, at least that's the way it was until now.

Thanks. The second link is working again for me today. I haven't tried the first one.

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