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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

Yeah, I think there is a 10% number that I have heard about the changeable tips.

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

 

Thanks you both!

Love this signature!

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

Maybe not copied. Is there anything OR can do with their foils? There are tight restrictions in the rules, so what can they (OR) still do?

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system - any attempts to improve the hydraulics would be too risky at this 11th hour. They may change foils, foil-tips, rudders, but they can't move them as quickly and as reliably if there's simply insufficient hydraulic power to do so.

The tight Class Rules have effectively eliminated the opportunities for illegal shenanigans, especially with the closer oversight by the MC who I believe have learned from their mistakes in AC34.

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For ourselves, I'm pumped! If Shithill can engineer a win from here, I'll respect him.

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Just now, Indio said:

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system - any attempts to improve the hydraulics would be too risky at this 11th hour. They may change foils, foil-tips, rudders, but they can't move them as quickly and as reliably if there's simply insufficient hydraulic power to do so.

The tight Class Rules have effectively eliminated the opportunities for illegal shenanigans, especially with the closer oversight by the MC who I believe have learned from their mistakes in AC34.

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Any links to the presser?

Here: 

 

4 minutes ago, NZL5 said:

Love this signature!

Thanks. Feel free to download the pic and use it if you want to

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

Nooooo... please don't get him started.

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5 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Here: 

 

Thanks. Feel free to download the pic and use it if you want to

Cheers for that.

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4 minutes ago, Indio said:

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system

Is this part of the reason Jimmy is so quiet in the start box. Can not afford to get carried away with maneuvers without killing the grinders?

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

Info is in one or more threads...I'm too contented to dig it all out again. Maybe I'll drag it up again to stir up the OR-XEROX sycophants next week while we await the coup de grâce next Monday morning..

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34 minutes ago, Mariner said:

Clean are you down there watching? give us some thoughts from the racecourse and village. want to know what the "crowd" emotions and reactions to this are?

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

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Just now, Gissie said:

Is this part of the reason Jimmy is so quiet in the start box. Can not afford to get carried away with maneuvers without killing the grinders?

I think so...

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35 minutes ago, Nutta said:

JS; "We've got to find more speed. But we've got five days..."

Well, that's a change of tune from yesterday where he claimed you couldn't determine if there was a boat speed difference due to the flukey win.

And to be fair, he was right to some extent but given the difference at least a little bit was very likely to be so.

However today, it was much more solid and consistent breeze and whenever ETNZ and Orifice sailed in the same patch of wind, ETNZ extended slowly but surely.

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15 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

ETNZ have a pair of used pie warmers from '13 they could lend them.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

Have fun. Make sure you track down Dalts for some sound bytes...and Jason Smith as well. lester would be good as well..

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^ Well Jimmy confirmed it in the presser...

 

Oh and great job you guys!! :D

20170617_ac35live_svdb_1526.jpg

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In the presser some dickhead from "Americas Cup TV" asked Jimmy if he thought ETNZ's boat was "suspiciously fast"... what a cunt!

To his credit Jimmy didn't even bite!

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Jimmy can't make his mind up, one moment they where both "very competitive" next moment "ETNZ clearly had a boat speed advantage"

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10 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

In the presser some dickhead from "Americas Cup TV" asked Jimmy if he thought ETNZ's boat was "suspiciously fast"... what a cunt!

To his credit Jimmy didn't even bite!

A right asshole. And Jimmy does deserve credit for not going there. PB is very impressive at the presser. 

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10 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

A right asshole. And Jimmy does deserve credit for not going there. PB is very impressive at the presser. 

Alec Wilkinson  

  • ts Tweets, current page.  Tweets & replies  Media
     Alec Wilkinson‏ @alecwilkinson  2h2 hours ago
     Spithill has just activated his 'deluded' mode. He won't deactivate it until it's all over. Still,it worked for him in San Fran #AmericasCup
  1.  

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40 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Cheers for that.

Best presser by Jimmy.

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Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

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1 minute ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

I think it will be a long week of wondering by us out here what is going-on in there.

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6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

I think it's smart by PB not to get drawn into a dogfight with the big mouth who likes to sledge. Sure, no real meaningful info but I'm fine with that. Jimmy' behaviour altogether interesting. It's like as if there's something going on behind the scenes we're not aware of.....like Larry's gonna fire him. 

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5 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

Feels like Burling has earned Spithill's respect, judging by the ambience of the presser...

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I'm confident ETNZ have more changes planned for the next 5 days. It seems to be their battle plan having had no plan B last time round. 

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

Tom Ehman thinks Oracle is the third fastest boat here behind Artemis.

At least AR could get ahead and hold it, winning 2.

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6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

At least AR could get ahead and hold it, winning 2.

Artemis could at least win the sprint to mark one. Oracle......well not so much.

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One of the things Oracle can clearly improve is their transitions.  I've been shocked at how poor they've been given all the talk about how big a disadvantage the cyclors would have exiting and entering the cockpits.  To my untrained eye they're a lot slicker than the Oracle crew who all pause and judge their entry to avoid disturbing the (usually) already turning handles.  And FWIW, Gashby's form across the tramp is second-to-none.

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Tom Ehman thinks Oracle is the third fastest boat here behind Artemis.

Actually I don't think that's true.

ETNZ have stepped up and if Artemis were to sail against them now in these conditions, they would have looked even less competitive than last time.

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Actually I don't think that's true.

ETNZ have stepped up and if Artemis were to sail against them now in these conditions, they would have looked even less competitive than last time.

Possibly, but Oracle have looked a bit slow, and they did lose twice to the Swedes.

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1 hour ago, marlowe said:

ETNZ have a pair of used pie warmers from '13 they could lend them.

I think those were Dean's leaving present.

 

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It seems to me that Artemis and ETNZ are the only two boats to have improved enough since the last campaign to be contenders.

Why haven't Xerox with all their time and resource ??

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Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

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5 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

This.

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4 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Eh? All four in front at line, all four faster to first mark... in what way has he not won a start?

Pretty sure there was at least one race when OTUSA crossed first though the lead didnt last long. I'll look again. not significant in any way though.

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Did Spithill spend too much time in the Goslings cellars?

He does seem to be out of it during the starts and slow to recover once the race is on, if he does at all...

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Just now, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

May not be able to buy the majic wand this time.

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14 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

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13 minutes ago, Mariner said:

Pretty sure there was at least one race when OTUSA crossed first though the lead didnt last long. I'll look again. not significant in any way though.

Winning the start is not about who crosses the line first, but who comes out of it in a better position and sometimes that can not become clear until AFTER rounding the first mark (which is what happened in race 1 today).

If you cross 2 seconds ahead of your opponent but 10 knots slower, is that a win? Not in my book.

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5 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

This is an exact replica of '95 when all three (?) defenders had massive multinational technology companies (including and aero one), but still all produced total dogs.

I think Oracle just thought they could refine refine refine and it would get them over the line. Who knows? Still could, but not looking so fine at the moment and the key differentiators cannot be replicated as nroose indicated.

That said, I'm sure NCS can correct me here but I think CFD in any fluid is kinda transferrable.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Winning the start is not about who crosses the line first, but who comes out of it in a better position and sometimes that can not become clear until AFTER rounding the first mark (which is what happened in race 1 today).

If you cross 2 seconds ahead of your opponent but 10 knots slower, is that a win? Not in my book.

fair enough I was maybe trying to give a little benefit of the doubt to my "home team" you know the team repping the Golden gate YC of SF defending in their "home waters" in their "home country"  ha ha

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3 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

They knew from the start that everyone had to solve the hydraulic power requirements ( which might even have been a consideration when they down-sized to the AC50). Despite Spithill's claims (echoed by his No1 poodle Barker) that they "considered and discarded" the cyclors solution, OR-XEROX and the poodles opted for the safe option, thinking that TNZ will have coffee grinders as well - and that they would all have to address the same power issues.

Gross miscalculation.

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

They knew from the start that everyone had to solve the hydraulic power requirements ( which might even have been a consideration when they down-sized to the AC50). Despite Spithill's claims (echoed by his No1 poodle Barker) that they "considered and discarded" the cyclors solution, OR-XEROX and the poodles opted for the safe option, thinking that TNZ will have coffee grinders as well - and that they would all have to address the same power issues.

Gross miscalculation.

Especially when we have proven time and time again .....we innovate...

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would Russell get the "credit" for losing it if the Kiwi's win it?  Has he ever lost it?

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12 minutes ago, Mariner said:

fair enough I was maybe trying to give a little benefit of the doubt to my "home team" you know the team repping the Golden gate YC of SF defending in their "home waters" in their "home country"  ha ha

If they DO win a start, then things will get interesting. ETNZ are fast enough to extend once in front, but are they fast enough to overtake?

As things stand right now, I suspect so but can't be sure. Don't want to find out - keep winning the starts Pete!

Just curious, how do you support your "home team"?

If ETNZ win this and then defended outside of NZ, I would just drop them like a hot turd. I think a lot of other kiwis would too.

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

Come ON! get with it what are we paying you for?  Leave your kids with the wife. Thats what they're for.  Wave the kiwi flag for us American Kiwis this week.

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4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Here: 

 

Thanks. Feel free to download the pic and use it if you want to

So done with this cocky dick!

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Oracles problems stem simply from a lack of imagination.

You can throw any amount of computing power and CFD at an idea, but if you feed it a conservative idea all you end up with is the perfect conservative idea. 

If you really want to move forward at some point you have to think of an entirely new problem to throw all that power at.

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7 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Oracles problems stem simply from a lack of imagination.

You can throw any amount of computing power and CFD at an idea, but if you feed it a conservative idea all you end up with is the perfect conservative idea. 

If you really want to move forward at some point you have to think of an entirely new problem to throw all that power at.

I think their conservatism comes more from risk aversion than lack of imagination.

In IT back in "the day", there was a famous quote which was "nobody ever got fired buying IBM", and so a LOT of people bought IBM even as it became obvious that a LOT of IBM's solution sucked BIG TIME.

It seems to be that nobody in Orifice wanted to risk being the one to come up with an original crappy idea, which means they didn't risk comingup with an original good idea.

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Yes, but they had the freedom to do it. Much more constrained this time, though that's not to say they won't do something, nor that it won't be enough.

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8 hours ago, denlefk said:

so ,comparing the four races of the final, with the two races of the qualifiers... what the fuck did ETNZ changed and wenow have such big difference ???

exactly. ??

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what changed? Fly time - In the round robins, EVERY team sailed like shit. everyone had touchdowns at almost every gate. From the start NZ had less. They were up at that 100% flytime before anyone else.

NZ have been improving more since the first race

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

I think their conservatism comes more from risk aversion than lack of imagination.

In IT back in "the day", there was a famous quote which was "nobody ever got fired buying IBM", and so a LOT of people bought IBM even as it became obvious that a LOT of IBM's solution sucked BIG TIME.

It seems to be that nobody in Orifice wanted to risk being the one to come up with an original crappy idea, which means they didn't risk comingup with an original good idea.

Sailors and team owners are normally rather simple minded creatures who want a boat exactly like the other guy but faster.  They mostly don't like anything radical.

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Does ETNZ do a line in heart medication? I'm sure my heart rate is higher than the grinders/cyclors during the racing!!!:o

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5 hours ago, Lartitude36S said:

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

 

Surely aerospace engineers have interesting things to say, but I guess that was mostly a marketing play.

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2 minutes ago, nroose said:

Surely aerospace engineers have interesting things to say, but I guess that was mostly a marketing play.

Almost certainly. If their R & D facilities were even able to be configured to provide any usable tests, I can't imagine they would have any reliably spare capacity to provide anything useful. Marketing.

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1 hour ago, vs2 said:

Can anyone lip read? From about 38min on.

 

Jesus NOs commentary is sooooo much better than KR and co.... definitely switching to NBC for the rest of the coverage...

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29 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Jesus NOs commentary is sooooo much better than KR and co.... definitely switching to NBC for the rest of the coverage...

Yep and NO saying how bad JS is starting and making a huge point of it. What the hell is going on with JS?

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6 hours ago, Mariner said:

Pretty sure there was at least one race when OTUSA crossed first though the lead didnt last long. I'll look again. not significant in any way though.

I think you could call the start to race 3 a dead heat. PB got the others though. Even the one where TNZ sat in the water like a winged duck.

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44 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Jesus NOs commentary is sooooo much better than KR and co.... definitely switching to NBC for the rest of the coverage...

+1 sigh, wish we had that on NZ Sky. And what happened to those between race panels they had in AC34, those were usually not half bad.

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2 hours ago, vs2 said:

Can anyone lip read? From about 38min on.

 

GA says "Hey guys...what is the EPA fine here for dicing a turtle in half?"

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18 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

GA says "Hey guys...what is the EPA fine here for dicing a turtle in half?"

 

In the abobe replay, what do you make of the guy right in front of spithill (sorry not sure of the name) having a short go at the wheel at 38:54.

Ok this is after the end of the race, but i see it as showing him being pissed at JS somehow.

Also noticed that one yesterday during the live

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7 hours ago, jaysper said:

This is an exact replica of '95 when all three (?) defenders had massive multinational technology companies (including and aero one), but still all produced total dogs.

I think Oracle just thought they could refine refine refine and it would get them over the line. Who knows? Still could, but not looking so fine at the moment and the key differentiators cannot be replicated as nroose indicated.

That said, I'm sure NCS can correct me here but I think CFD in any fluid is kinda transferrable.

At low velocities (less than ~ Mach 0.3), air and water basically behave the same. Ship hulls have been tested in wind tunnels and the results are just fine. The major difference between ships and aircraft is not the behaviour of the fluid but the presence of the water surface. This interface changes the flow physics, introducing for example waves and (for foils) reduced lift when approaching the surface. For an aerospace engineer, this may take some getting used to (it did for me).

Furthermore, free-surface flow allows ventilation and water cavitates while air does not.

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Man commentary is so good with Nathan and Chris doing it!  No dumbing it down just give us the info!

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Jesus NOs commentary is sooooo much better than KR and co.... definitely switching to NBC for the rest of the coverage...

Yeah, I'll look at finding a stream, those commentaries were so much better for me.

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1 hour ago, desprit said:

Gotta figure out how to watch NBC is NZ  - finally a proper commentary.

Let's exchange info if either one finds out.

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I'm getting sick of the poor production of the TV, do they even understand the sport they are watching? Just because they have 65 trillion fucking cameras on the boat doesn't mean we need to use them all, we have seen the foils a hundred fucking times, show us once to see if they are changed, then leave it, how many sweaty grinder shots do we need? How about showing where the fucking boats are on the racecourse? 

Maybe it's because the boats are so far separated that it's embarrassing. 

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Sheesh, Slingsby got himself in shitty moods after both races ... looks like he's trying to justify his calls after that second race, in great detail. Body language not good.

I agree, Outteridge & Draper give some great insights, and their total shock over (a) ETNZ's dominance and (b) Jimmy's passive approach, is a real eye-opener. Well worth the listen, thanks

NO I think it was, speculates that Pete Burling has got into Jimmy's head ...!! Who woulda thunk?!

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9 hours ago, Lartitude36S said:

It seems to me that Artemis and ETNZ are the only two boats to have improved enough since the last campaign to be contenders.

Why haven't Xerox with all their time and resource ??

Superiority complex?

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8 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

10:15 for some entertainment

 

10:15. I know I am quoting myself but this is just pure gold. JS schooling everyone on they need more speed and how the other boat (TNZ) has their boat all set up wrong

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4 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

10:15. I know I am quoting myself but this is just pure gold. JS schooling everyone on they need more speed and how the other boat (TNZ) has their boat all set up wrong

#SucksCock 

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