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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

Jimmy saying they need to get faster. No shit Sherlock!

Master of the understatement - tee-shirt for the boat I think....

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

Jimmy saying they need to get faster. No shit Sherlock!

Yeah, was he saying that in SF?? In SF I think he already knew they had something up their sleeve...here it doesn't sound as if they have anything as 'revolutionary' this time around...we will see in 5 days time...

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2 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Foils and wing control cannot be copied in 5 days. That's a primary realization and will come out after this is over. 

Love your gif BB, suits you!!! That was impressive today, do you think we have anything else in the shed??

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4 minutes ago, Mariner said:

He didn't win all four

Eh? All four in front at line, all four faster to first mark... in what way has he not won a start?

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Just now, **ONTOIT** said:

Yeah, was he saying that in SF?? In SF I think he already knew they had something up their sleeve...here it doesn't sound as if they have anything as 'revolutionary' this time around...we will see in 5 days time...

They also studied and changed their wing trimming, probably not much there this time.

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Oracle base empty - so turns out local Bermuda are really just fairweather fans?

The only one so far was at the ETNZ base!

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2 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Eh? All four in front at line, all four faster to first mark... in what way has he not won a start?

Maybe OR should lower their expectations and just see if they can win a mark rounding

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3 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Love you gif BB, suits you!!! That was impressive today, do you think we have anything else in the shed??

Yeah. Two pallets of Steinlarger. There's more in the shed. At what point do you stop modification in the name of reliability?

Cheers on the gif. 

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anf fuck do these BT commentary dicks turn quick on Oracle... they are railing on them now!

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6 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Foils and wing control cannot be copied in 5 days. That's a primary realization and will come out after this is over. 

Maybe not copied. Is there anything OR can do with their foils? There are tight restrictions in the rules, so what can they (OR) still do?

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

anf fuck do these BT commentary dicks turn quick on Oracle... they are railing on them now!

Worried for their jobs next time no doubt.  

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

Maybe not copied. Is there anything OR can do with their foils? There are tight restrictions in the rules, so what can they (OR) still do?

Try and re-engineer tips? Not even sure that can be done in 5 days...

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

Try and re-engineer tips? Not even sure that can be done in 5 days...

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

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I'd love this to go to 7-0 - then ETNZ can say they actually won 8-0. ORUSA and the US-based commentary are studiously not mentioning the first race of this match, but they would be if the scoreline was the other way around.

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They can try and mode better, try and get better aero packages on or use some 10% tips they've already made.

I think they made a mistake with the faster boards today.

anyone know the forecast for next weekend?

Also, if the racing does not finish next Sunday evening, what if the schedule after that?

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

Yeah ETNZ have figured out a way to do this so its inside the rules - someone mentioned it here or in ETNZ thread - not all (any?) of the other teams built their foils to support this approach - requires different design from beginning, probably heavier and riskier

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5 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

They can change 10% of the mass at will.

Or 30% once.

But there is more to it than just foils ends surely - and weather can still screw with both teams...

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

They can try and mode better, try and get better aero packages on or use some 10% tips they've already made.

I think they made a mistake with the faster boards today.

anyone know the forecast for next weekend?

Also, if the racing does not finish next Sunday evening, what if the schedule after that?

Then it's 3 races per day til they find a winner.  

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

Yeah ETNZ have figured out a way to do this so its inside the rules - someone mentioned it here or in ETNZ thread - not all (any?) of the other teams built their foils to support this approach - requires different design from beginning, probably heavier and riskier

 

Just now, nav said:

They can change 10% of the mass at will.

Or 30% once.

But there is more to it than just foils ends surely.

Thanks you both!

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

Yeah, I think there is a 10% number that I have heard about the changeable tips.

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

 

Thanks you both!

Love this signature!

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

Maybe not copied. Is there anything OR can do with their foils? There are tight restrictions in the rules, so what can they (OR) still do?

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system - any attempts to improve the hydraulics would be too risky at this 11th hour. They may change foils, foil-tips, rudders, but they can't move them as quickly and as reliably if there's simply insufficient hydraulic power to do so.

The tight Class Rules have effectively eliminated the opportunities for illegal shenanigans, especially with the closer oversight by the MC who I believe have learned from their mistakes in AC34.

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For ourselves, I'm pumped! If Shithill can engineer a win from here, I'll respect him.

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Just now, Indio said:

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system - any attempts to improve the hydraulics would be too risky at this 11th hour. They may change foils, foil-tips, rudders, but they can't move them as quickly and as reliably if there's simply insufficient hydraulic power to do so.

The tight Class Rules have effectively eliminated the opportunities for illegal shenanigans, especially with the closer oversight by the MC who I believe have learned from their mistakes in AC34.

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Any links to the presser?

Here: 

 

4 minutes ago, NZL5 said:

Love this signature!

Thanks. Feel free to download the pic and use it if you want to

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

Nooooo... please don't get him started.

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4 minutes ago, Indio said:

Very few options for them, as their achilles heel is still their deficient hydraulic system

Is this part of the reason Jimmy is so quiet in the start box. Can not afford to get carried away with maneuvers without killing the grinders?

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

Mate, You mentioned mistakes in 34 by the MC. I'd love to know more. I know people have said internally ETNZ believe they were less than honest with developing. But no info has ever dome out.

Info is in one or more threads...I'm too contented to dig it all out again. Maybe I'll drag it up again to stir up the OR-XEROX sycophants next week while we await the coup de grâce next Monday morning..

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34 minutes ago, Mariner said:

Clean are you down there watching? give us some thoughts from the racecourse and village. want to know what the "crowd" emotions and reactions to this are?

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

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Just now, Gissie said:

Is this part of the reason Jimmy is so quiet in the start box. Can not afford to get carried away with maneuvers without killing the grinders?

I think so...

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35 minutes ago, Nutta said:

JS; "We've got to find more speed. But we've got five days..."

Well, that's a change of tune from yesterday where he claimed you couldn't determine if there was a boat speed difference due to the flukey win.

And to be fair, he was right to some extent but given the difference at least a little bit was very likely to be so.

However today, it was much more solid and consistent breeze and whenever ETNZ and Orifice sailed in the same patch of wind, ETNZ extended slowly but surely.

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15 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

So the tips may be changed at will? No restriction?
Hmmmm, maybe aero changes, pie warmers...

ETNZ have a pair of used pie warmers from '13 they could lend them.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

Have fun. Make sure you track down Dalts for some sound bytes...and Jason Smith as well. lester would be good as well..

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In the presser some dickhead from "Americas Cup TV" asked Jimmy if he thought ETNZ's boat was "suspiciously fast"... what a cunt!

To his credit Jimmy didn't even bite!

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Jimmy can't make his mind up, one moment they where both "very competitive" next moment "ETNZ clearly had a boat speed advantage"

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10 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

In the presser some dickhead from "Americas Cup TV" asked Jimmy if he thought ETNZ's boat was "suspiciously fast"... what a cunt!

To his credit Jimmy didn't even bite!

A right asshole. And Jimmy does deserve credit for not going there. PB is very impressive at the presser. 

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10 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

A right asshole. And Jimmy does deserve credit for not going there. PB is very impressive at the presser. 

Alec Wilkinson  

  • ts Tweets, current page.  Tweets & replies  Media
     Alec Wilkinson‏ @alecwilkinson  2h2 hours ago
     Spithill has just activated his 'deluded' mode. He won't deactivate it until it's all over. Still,it worked for him in San Fran #AmericasCup
  1.  

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Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

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1 minute ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

I think it will be a long week of wondering by us out here what is going-on in there.

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6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Neither one of them are answering the questions, for the most part, more like politicians telling the story they want out there and not answer what was asked.

I think it's smart by PB not to get drawn into a dogfight with the big mouth who likes to sledge. Sure, no real meaningful info but I'm fine with that. Jimmy' behaviour altogether interesting. It's like as if there's something going on behind the scenes we're not aware of.....like Larry's gonna fire him. 

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5 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Yup, but some questions are beyond belief.
"Do you have a secret weapon?" Ouch!

Feels like Burling has earned Spithill's respect, judging by the ambience of the presser...

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I'm confident ETNZ have more changes planned for the next 5 days. It seems to be their battle plan having had no plan B last time round. 

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

Tom Ehman thinks Oracle is the third fastest boat here behind Artemis.

At least AR could get ahead and hold it, winning 2.

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6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

At least AR could get ahead and hold it, winning 2.

Artemis could at least win the sprint to mark one. Oracle......well not so much.

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One of the things Oracle can clearly improve is their transitions.  I've been shocked at how poor they've been given all the talk about how big a disadvantage the cyclors would have exiting and entering the cockpits.  To my untrained eye they're a lot slicker than the Oracle crew who all pause and judge their entry to avoid disturbing the (usually) already turning handles.  And FWIW, Gashby's form across the tramp is second-to-none.

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Tom Ehman thinks Oracle is the third fastest boat here behind Artemis.

Actually I don't think that's true.

ETNZ have stepped up and if Artemis were to sail against them now in these conditions, they would have looked even less competitive than last time.

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Actually I don't think that's true.

ETNZ have stepped up and if Artemis were to sail against them now in these conditions, they would have looked even less competitive than last time.

Possibly, but Oracle have looked a bit slow, and they did lose twice to the Swedes.

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1 hour ago, marlowe said:

ETNZ have a pair of used pie warmers from '13 they could lend them.

I think those were Dean's leaving present.

 

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It seems to me that Artemis and ETNZ are the only two boats to have improved enough since the last campaign to be contenders.

Why haven't Xerox with all their time and resource ??

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Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

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5 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

This.

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4 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Eh? All four in front at line, all four faster to first mark... in what way has he not won a start?

Pretty sure there was at least one race when OTUSA crossed first though the lead didnt last long. I'll look again. not significant in any way though.

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Just now, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

May not be able to buy the majic wand this time.

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14 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems like it is an illusion that OR has not improved. They have. But NZ has more hydro and I guess they are pumping the wing more. And also they have had some good ideas. Good ideas are not always available for sale.

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

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13 minutes ago, Mariner said:

Pretty sure there was at least one race when OTUSA crossed first though the lead didnt last long. I'll look again. not significant in any way though.

Winning the start is not about who crosses the line first, but who comes out of it in a better position and sometimes that can not become clear until AFTER rounding the first mark (which is what happened in race 1 today).

If you cross 2 seconds ahead of your opponent but 10 knots slower, is that a win? Not in my book.

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5 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

This is an exact replica of '95 when all three (?) defenders had massive multinational technology companies (including and aero one), but still all produced total dogs.

I think Oracle just thought they could refine refine refine and it would get them over the line. Who knows? Still could, but not looking so fine at the moment and the key differentiators cannot be replicated as nroose indicated.

That said, I'm sure NCS can correct me here but I think CFD in any fluid is kinda transferrable.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Winning the start is not about who crosses the line first, but who comes out of it in a better position and sometimes that can not become clear until AFTER rounding the first mark (which is what happened in race 1 today).

If you cross 2 seconds ahead of your opponent but 10 knots slower, is that a win? Not in my book.

fair enough I was maybe trying to give a little benefit of the doubt to my "home team" you know the team repping the Golden gate YC of SF defending in their "home waters" in their "home country"  ha ha

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3 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Surely they must have anticipated one or more of the other teams doing something radical to lift the bar.

Seems like getting an aerospace company on board didn't work.

I think water is a different dynamic to air.

They knew from the start that everyone had to solve the hydraulic power requirements ( which might even have been a consideration when they down-sized to the AC50). Despite Spithill's claims (echoed by his No1 poodle Barker) that they "considered and discarded" the cyclors solution, OR-XEROX and the poodles opted for the safe option, thinking that TNZ will have coffee grinders as well - and that they would all have to address the same power issues.

Gross miscalculation.

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

They knew from the start that everyone had to solve the hydraulic power requirements ( which might even have been a consideration when they down-sized to the AC50). Despite Spithill's claims (echoed by his No1 poodle Barker) that they "considered and discarded" the cyclors solution, OR-XEROX and the poodles opted for the safe option, thinking that TNZ will have coffee grinders as well - and that they would all have to address the same power issues.

Gross miscalculation.

Especially when we have proven time and time again .....we innovate...

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12 minutes ago, Mariner said:

fair enough I was maybe trying to give a little benefit of the doubt to my "home team" you know the team repping the Golden gate YC of SF defending in their "home waters" in their "home country"  ha ha

If they DO win a start, then things will get interesting. ETNZ are fast enough to extend once in front, but are they fast enough to overtake?

As things stand right now, I suspect so but can't be sure. Don't want to find out - keep winning the starts Pete!

Just curious, how do you support your "home team"?

If ETNZ win this and then defended outside of NZ, I would just drop them like a hot turd. I think a lot of other kiwis would too.

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got my ticket for this Thursday.  Wasn't gonna leave my kid for two weeks, so I picked the one that will be the most fun with the fewest Oracle fans around...

 

Have all sorts of interviews, live morning shows, and tech pieces planned, including some podcasts.  Not a lot of tech talk so that's my focus, but if it comes that that then celebrating with the Kiwis and getting what I can about the next Cup will have to do.

 

 

Come ON! get with it what are we paying you for?  Leave your kids with the wife. Thats what they're for.  Wave the kiwi flag for us American Kiwis this week.

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4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Here: 

 

Thanks. Feel free to download the pic and use it if you want to

So done with this cocky dick!

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