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zillafreak

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So Spitty just said yea they gave up stability for speed.  So basically etnz just needs to be on his arse if behind.

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Jimmy really surprised over dial down penalty? Wtf? Get your arse out of the way!

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2.04min...... I think without the 3 errors from ORXerox it would have been closer, however not enough..... 1.65knt diff in VMG on leg 5, just extended out on them.......

Just frikkin wow!

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can some one please explain the differences between the 2 dial downs and why OR was penalised on the second.....i thought they (the dial downs) looked pretty much the same

 

cheers

 

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Horrible course management, OR are always having to make an extra maneuver.  Not surer whose fault that is, Spithill or Slingsby but they need to make a personnel change asap.

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Tell you what.   Couple more of those sub ten manoeuvres from oracle will help our cause. 

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Just now, ENZO THE MAL said:

can some one please explain the differences between the 2 dial downs and why OR was penalised on the second.....i thought they (the dial downs) looked pretty much the same

 

cheers

 

ETNZ (right of way boat) was forced to change course on the second dial-down

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Nice job, ETNZ.

One race at a time guys.

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15mins to next race...

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Just now, Monster Mash said:

Horrible course management, OR are always having to make an extra maneuver.  Not surer whose fault that is, Spithill or Slingsby but they need to make a personnel change asap.

Certainly not as cocky as last time.  

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Looked to me like they could maintain speed equal to the kiwis for the first three legs. After that and the penalty they were out of power and all their manoeuvres started suffering for it. I reckon if they are equal at start they will stay in touch but then start suffering again after a few legs.  

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Looks like Spithill should have been learning how to start this last week - one of the biggest quantitative differences between these boats - Jimmy is disadvantaging OR at the start of every race so far.

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Just now, lous said:

Looked to me like they could maintain speed equal to the kiwis for the first three legs. After that and the penalty they were out of power and all their manoeuvres started suffering for it. I reckon if they are equal at start they will stay in touch but then start suffering again after a few legs.  

+1

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Damn that 1 point deficit lol, sounds much better 5-0 

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1 minute ago, ENZO THE MAL said:

can some one please explain the differences between the 2 dial downs and why OR was penalised on the second.....i thought they (the dial downs) looked pretty much the same

 

cheers

 

ETNZ made a final course adjustment headed towards Oracle about 7 seconds out and held steady. Oracle's course would have resulted in collision until ETNZ beared away first. 

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1 minute ago, lous said:

Looked to me like they could maintain speed equal to the kiwis for the first three legs. After that and the penalty they were out of power and all their manoeuvres started suffering for it. I reckon if they are equal at start they will stay in touch but then start suffering again after a few legs.  

^ this

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I have a little more respect for OR right now - they seemed to have spent the last week trying to genuinely match ETNZ's performance by making the boat less stable instead of rebuilding / copying or whatever they did in SF. They're still not fast enough though - the aspects that make ETNZ truly superior can't be 'modded' in a few days.

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1 minute ago, DevsNzL said:

Damn that 1 point deficit lol, sounds much better 5-0 

Give it 45 minutes mate!

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2 minutes ago, ENZO THE MAL said:

can some one please explain the differences between the 2 dial downs and why OR was penalised on the second.....i thought they (the dial downs) looked pretty much the same

 

cheers

 

ETNZ altered course to below that of USA when they were at 90des to the wind. USA were never aiming below the kiwi boat when at the same angle. The kiwis had to head up to avoid. 

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Has anyone notice how streamlined the cyclors look? The two on the middle look higher than the rest

2 minutes ago, lous said:

Looked to me like they could maintain speed equal to the kiwis for the first three legs. After that and the penalty they were out of power and all their manoeuvres started suffering for it. I reckon if they are equal at start they will stay in touch but then start suffering again after a few legs.  

Yes it's a matter of legs

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3 minutes ago, lous said:

Looked to me like they could maintain speed equal to the kiwis for the first three legs. After that and the penalty they were out of power and all their manoeuvres started suffering for it. I reckon if they are equal at start they will stay in touch but then start suffering again after a few legs.  

That was my sense too. 

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1 minute ago, DevsNzL said:

Damn that 1 point deficit lol, sounds much better 5-0 

Look at it this way:

OR-XEROX: -5

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I think kiwis were on slightly the wrong foils at the start. As the wind dropped they pulled away. Clearly less of a factor than the dead stop gybes though. 

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2 minutes ago, generative.design said:

I have a little more respect for OR right now - they seemed to have spent the last week trying to genuinely match ETNZ's performance by making the boat less stable instead of rebuilding / copying or whatever they did in SF. They're still not fast enough though - the aspects that make ETNZ truly superior can't be 'modded' in a few days.

In SF they already had the faster boat, they just had to learn how to sail it! Totally different situation than SF...they have no choice they had to make boat changes!!

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2 minutes ago, generative.design said:

I have a little more respect for OR right now - they seemed to have spent the last week trying to genuinely match ETNZ's performance by making the boat less stable instead of rebuilding / copying or whatever they did in SF. They're still not fast enough though - the aspects that make ETNZ truly superior can't be 'modded' in a few days.

+1, though Jimmy admitting "No speed for free" stability is harder for them,,,,, Power management & ETNZ manouverability.... shit just got real folks

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1 minute ago, jorge said:

 

Yes it's a matter of legs

Not just legs. It's the legs being included in the design consideration from the initial phases allowing the kiwis to explore more design space. It's the whole boat the team and the way they sail it. 

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Well that was a bit scary for that first upwind.

ETNZ pulled away on the 2nd upwind but fluffed the top mark layline -> extra tack.

But Orifice was pretty slow up top too, must have been a lull up there.

And those gybes again :wacko:

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Wind indication on VS up and down a lot... patch out there...

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1 minute ago, lous said:

Not just legs. It's the legs being included in the design consideration from the initial phases allowing the kiwis to explore more design space. It's the whole boat the team and the way they sail it. 

Totally agree

 

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A bit like watching the Auckland Blue's in last years Super rugby..... you dont expect the errors at this level.......

Apologies to the Kiwi's, there are NO Aussie rugby teams worth talking about this year

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5 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

In SF they already had the faster boat, they just had to learn how to sail it! Totally different situation than SF...they have no choice they had to make boat changes!!

Yah ppl forget that the Kiwis actually had to sail perfect races in 2013 and lost a few before the 8-1 (3) break. 

 

I think the entire design is showing that Oracle after revisions could in theory match the Kiwis in upwind speed, but whether they can maintain control after a few marks remains to be seen. One gets the feeling that PB has enough hydralic reserves and control assistance from crew that he can sail 14 leg course. While Oracle is at the limit by mark 2. 

 

 

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Why have they done away with the post match analysing and started showing puff pieces instead? Feels like the racing isn't really taken seriously enough to provide some decent discussion afterwards.

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12 minutes ago, Nutta said:

You can ignore final margins - once you're going to lose in this event, you save your arms for the next race...

Soo you are saying oracle is saving the Gas for their campaign as yet another challenger in Auckland

nice !!!;)

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1 minute ago, PabloAU said:

Apologies to the Kiwi's, there are NO Aussie rugby teams worth talking about this year

Or for many years...  8-P

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2 minutes ago, lous said:

Not just legs. It's the legs being included in the design consideration from the initial phases allowing the kiwis to explore more design space. It's the whole boat the team and the way they sail it. 

It is always the total package, the wing keel only did not win it for the Aussies, the tri had everything changed to work with the wing, and the Kiwi boat is a total package also.

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1 minute ago, generative.design said:

Also, plenty of match racing going on in these matches - I sure hope nobody is crazy enough to suggest the AC should go back to monohulls after this..

Of course not.  With monohulls, you'd be seeing processions, with one boat finishing two minutes behind the other.   No one wants to see that. :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Miffy said:

ETNZ made a final course adjustment headed towards Oracle about 7 seconds out and held steady. Oracle's course would have resulted in collision until ETNZ beared away first. 

yup - despite the commentary and Spithill's opinion, that was a no-brainer. I'm sure ETNZ planned for exactly that situation and how to win the penalty. Also at the start, ETNZ suckered ETNZ into going too early - did you notice their little course correction about 5 sec out to be on time?

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Just now, PabloAU said:

A bit like watching the Auckland Blue's in last years Super rugby.....

Oh that's cruel!!!

But did you see the Blues' star Rieko Ioane's 2nd try last night??

 

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Just now, Nutta said:

Or for many years...  8-P

Errr..... won't go there Nutta please.... I'm just getting over burning my "Wannabies" gurnsey & supporting ETNZ feels a little "strange"...... but I am married to a Kiwi.....

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1 minute ago, Nutta said:

Or for many years...  8-P

Could say the same about the Blues...

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Just now, generative.design said:

For those who are watching on NBC, how is NO / Draper commentary today? As good as last weekend?

Just got home from a trade show and saw the finish, will comment after this race.

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Just now, Indio said:

Oh that's cruel!!!

But did you see the Blues' star Rieko Ioane's 2nd try last night??

Yeah - different team this year & the big fella had a stormer.....

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Just now, Gissie said:

Could say the same about the Blues...

Yep. I go to most of their games and it's a painful thing...

Back to more important things however...

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I get really nervous about these pre-starts where there is no boundary but they are right by the land :ph34r:

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Better start OR

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Here we go now Oracle lets see if you can now keep the lead

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Booommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bye bye

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Uh oh. Those who foolishly wanted to see what would happen if orifice won the start just got their wish

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Bound to lose mark one eventually.  Good run though.  And could have been punished more in that Prestart.  Jimmy was soft 

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Nice job OTUSA. Now watch you backs. Go ETNZ

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Just now, jaysper said:

Ok so I'm REALLY not liking this right now! 

Get a grip man. It's a yacht race.

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Long way to go - under 100m gap, OR fall's off the foils - all over

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Should we get worried now

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

Get a grip man. It's a yacht race.

You wouldn't tell me to get a grip if you knew what l have available to have a grip of!

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They didn't show it on the broadcast, but in the last race there was a downwind where NZ just switched to a lower mode and destroyed. Didn't seem to be a wind shift. Will be interesting to see if they're capable of doing that again.

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have we just taken the lead woooohoooo

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