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zillafreak

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Just now, nroose said:

If I am not mistaken, they measure before the races.

Checking OR-XEROX for cheatingB)

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

The Measurement Committee should be busy after the race :)

They have already been busy, getting all the measurements for our rudders to oracle. Interesting to see oracle still running two board designs, port and stb 

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so will Monday not be broadcast ??

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1 minute ago, NorthKorean said:

Win a race finally and suddenly it's all on? 

Lmao

Absolutely. I have to get my licks in when I can.

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Watched all the races so far. Oracle is now the faster boat. Damn, how do you beat a faster boat?

Cheering for the Kiwis but damn it is going to be tough.

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8 minutes ago, PJB said:

No Ian can choose to have 3 tomorrow. 

Congrats to both teams, gripping viewing. 

Seems like that would be a good choice if it was going to Monday anyway. But in most of these series they want to draw it out longer to get the most coverage.

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1 minute ago, bajakiter said:

Watched all the races so far. Oracle is now the faster boat. Damn, how do you beat a faster boat?

Cheering for the Kiwis but damn it is going to be tough.

Yeah nah.....

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1 minute ago, bajakiter said:

Watched all the races so far. Oracle is now the faster boat. Damn, how do you beat a faster boat?

Cheering for the Kiwis but damn it is going to be tough.

I wouldn't say they are "the faster boat" they had to sail the perfect race to win and they did and they won. Can they sail 6 more perfect races before ETNZ can sail 3 perfect races?

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2 minutes ago, Qman said:

Exactly.  That was like Artemis.  They did that one day also.  Not stressed 

Yes but this is OR. The fear is that just like 2013 they are able to get better and better and and the pendulum swings. This feels a lot like 2013 despite what everyone is saying. 

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Looks like we were moded for lighter airs today. Good to see Oracle back in it. 

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2 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

Watched all the races so far. Oracle is now the faster boat. Damn, how do you beat a faster boat?

Yep. Speed gap gone:

IMG_1587.thumb.PNG.d98f0d4badd53e7b20cee8a69d334d5e.PNG 

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10 minutes ago, sclarke said:

As long as we win one race per day for the next 3 days we'll be right. Oracle need to win pretty much every race from now on. If you look at it, we've had 6 races and we have 7 races left. Oracle need 6 of those to win the cup. If they drop one more race, it puts huge pressure on Oracle to then sweep the Kiwi's. I just can't see that happening.

Hey man, stop it with the numbers, last time they were 8-1 doen and they won, remember?

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The graphic about match wins in AC history cracks me up! Best of 18 so JS gets 11 wins so he is now level with RC for AC races won. Surely they should also put how many losses they have had as well?? So effectively it's 14 wins v 13 losses against RC 14 wins v 0 loses...puts it in perspective doesn't it!!

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Just now, 1eyedkiwi said:

Yes but this is OR. The fear is that just like 2013 they are able to get better and better and and the pendulum swings. This feels a lot like 2013 despite what everyone is saying. 

Is the similarity the 'magic improvement' that if you had to add a soundtrack to it you'd choose 'Things that make you hmmmm'?

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Just now, jorge said:

Hey man, stop it with the numbers, last time they were 8-1 doen and they won, remember?

This isn't last time. 

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1 minute ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Yes but this is OR. The fear is that just like 2013 they are able to get better and better and and the pendulum swings. This feels a lot like 2013 despite what everyone is saying. 

oh ye of little faith

1 minute ago, sclarke said:

I wouldn't say they are "the faster boat" they had to sail the perfect race to win and they did and they won. Can they sail 6 more perfect races before ETNZ can sail 3 perfect races?

i think OR have found a little bit of speed.....but as you say they need to sail the perfect race to win

 

Also was TS sailing today ? if he did he appeared to be pretty quiet or maybe not mic'd up

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep. Speed gap gone:

IMG_1587.thumb.PNG.d98f0d4badd53e7b20cee8a69d334d5e.PNG 

But they aren't the faster boat  though are they Stinger!!??

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1 minute ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Yes but this is OR. The fear is that just like 2013 they are able to get better and better and and the pendulum swings. This feels a lot like 2013 despite what everyone is saying. 

I was in San Francisco. Not really the same. Can't look at the average speed because the US screwed up and gave up in race one of the day and the Kiwis screwed up rounding that mark on the cross in the second race. 

Have to break it down and compare within  legs. Oracle seems to have fixed their VMG problem and are pointing higher than they were. Boat is faster and if they round mark 1, are able to hold it through mark 2. 

San Francisco was more like... Barker and crew wins start, first upwind leg lose advantage, second upwind leg behind and race over. 

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For the record or were a half boat length over the start.   Not a fine miss 

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Etnz still have a speed edge.  They constantly created opportunities when behind.  

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OR won because ETNZ were setup for slightly less wind, the wind shift at that top mark and they sailed a pretty good course. 

Relax fickle friends, ETNZ got this. 

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OR will like the look of tomorrow's forecast.  I think they prefer patchy, shifty days at the moment to maximize their chances and tomorrow looks like it could deliver if they get racing away

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Just now, Barnacle Bill said:

OR won because ETNZ were setup for slightly less wind, the wind shift at that top mark and they sailed a pretty good course. 

Relax fickle friends, ETNZ got this. 

Love how you selectively remember the wind shifts. Very good life skill.

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Just now, Barnacle Bill said:

OR won because ETNZ were setup for slightly less wind, the wind shift at that top mark and they sailed a pretty good course. 

Relax fickle friends, ETNZ got this. 

this. hope this was it. 

great race. no mistakes from OR like the first race. got a great wind shift

kiwis were always close though

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1 minute ago, ezyb said:

OR will like the look of tomorrow's forecast.  I think they prefer patchy, shifty days at the moment to maximize their chances and tomorrow looks like it could deliver if they get racing away

It looks like tomorrow will be slightly lighter than today, more like the 10k of last week. That would almost certainly favour ETNZ, as OR would struggle to stay on their foils..

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I am watching today's first race now, which I missed. Seems like the NZers around here have it backwards. Now to win, Kiwis need to get multiple penalties in their favor and count on OR to make mistakes.

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1 minute ago, generative.design said:

It looks like tomorrow will be slightly lighter than today, more like the 10k of last week. That would almost certainly favour ETNZ, as OR would struggle to stay on their foils..

It was light today and despite years of development Oracle with another layday surprise make their magic improvements. So I wouldn't say the light airs TNZ will be favourite anymore. 

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It would be interesting to see the teams forecasts compared to what actually transpired. It's one of the things missing in this event - any comment from the team about the conditions and their setup. All we get is what KR thinks he can see. I know the teams won't want to give data away, but a little more engagement between the broadcast and teams might benefit things. Too late for 2017 obviously.

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2 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am watching today's first race now, which I missed. Seems like the NZers around here have it backwards. Now to win, Kiwis need to get multiple penalties in their favor and count on OR to make mistakes.

Youre right in saying Oracle likely cheating yet again. 

Character flaws shining through. 

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Just now, NorthKorean said:

It was light today and despite years of development Oracle with another layday surprise make their magic improvements. So I wouldn't say the light airs TNZ will be favourite anymore. 

The reason I think it's gonna be harder for OR: they have destabilized the boat in an effort to gain speed, but traded it for maneuverability. We've seen today it took an almost superhuman effort for them to keep the boat foiling in 12k avg. Doing that in 10k will be all that much harder..

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Just now, NorthKorean said:

Youre right in saying Oracle likely cheating yet again. 

Character flaws shining through. 

Yeah. Go with the cheater line when you lose. Sure sign of a loser.

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30 minutes ago, sclarke said:

I wouldn't say they are "the faster boat" they had to sail the perfect race to win and they did and they won. Can they sail 6 more perfect races before ETNZ can sail 3 perfect races?

+ 1000

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Presser pretty tense so far

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2 minutes ago, Alpinefolk said:

Jimmy complaining about the dial down penalty. He's going to feel like an arse when he watches the footage.

Yep 

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4 minutes ago, nav said:

Clean ! :o

Thought he didn't get accreditation!!

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26 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am watching today's first race now, which I missed. Seems like the NZers around here have it backwards. Now to win, Kiwis need to get multiple penalties in their favor and count on OR to make mistakes.

There was over two minutes in it.  Didn't you see the unforced sub 10 knot gybes!!!!

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I think it will be too little too late. They are just going to run out of time in this match. One race is not a come back. People talk about last time, but the biggest difference from this time to last time, is the format. We only have 13 races. And its first to 7. Last time races were unlimited until some one got to 9. This time you have 13 races only to win 7. We've already had 6 of those races. We have 7 races left, and Oracle needs to win 6 of those races to win the cup. That means if the Kiwi's win one more race, the hill goes from steep to vertical for Oracle, especially if its the first one tomorrow. The Kiwis will get to 5 wins, leaving 2 left and Oracle will then have to sweep the rest of the races to win the Cup. That is a huge difference from last time. In San Fran, mathematics didn't apply because we just kept going till someone won, this time, there is a set time frame in which the cup can be won. HUGE Difference.

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

I think it will be too little too late. They are just going to run out of time in this match. One race is not a come back. People talk about last time, but the biggest difference from this time to last time, is the format. We only have 13 races. And its first to 7. Last time races were unlimited until some one got to 9. This time you have 13 races only to win 7. We've already had 6 of those races. We have 7 races left, and Oracle needs to win 6 of those races to win the cup. That means if the Kiwi's win one more race, the hill goes from steep to vertical for Oracle, especially if its the first one tomorrow. The Kiwis will get to 5 wins, leaving 2 left and Oracle will then have to sweep the rest of the races to win the Cup. That is a huge difference from last time. In San Fran, mathematics didn't apply because we just kept going till someone won, this time, there is a set time frame in which the cup can be won. HUGE Difference.

I think you have a small error. It is first to 7 points, yes. But there is a max of 14 races.

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^^WTF are you talking about?  It's the first to 7 not best of 13. OR need 6 more wins and ETNZ need 3 and they'll keep racing until one team gets there.  So there's potentially 8 races left if OR wins 7 - 6

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

I think it will be too little too late. They are just going to run out of time in this match. One race is not a come back. People talk about last time, but the biggest difference from this time to last time, is the format. We only have 13 races. And its first to 7. Last time races were unlimited until some one got to 9. This time you have 13 races only to win 7. We've already had 6 of those races. We have 7 races left, and Oracle needs to win 6 of those races to win the cup. That means if the Kiwi's win one more race, the hill goes from steep to vertical for Oracle, especially if its the first one tomorrow. The Kiwis will get to 5 wins, leaving 2 left and Oracle will then have to sweep the rest of the races to win the Cup. That is a huge difference from last time. In San Fran, mathematics didn't apply because we just kept going till someone won, this time, there is a set time frame in which the cup can be won. HUGE Difference.

Ah?? We still need to win three races to win the cup...if we win 1 race tomorrow then OR can still drop another race after that before it becomes sudden death. As long as we keep winning at least one race per day we will be fine, it's if we loose two races in one day that ill be concerned. Remember AR won 2 races off us as well.

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32 minutes ago, NorthKorean said:

It was light today and despite years of development Oracle with another layday surprise make their magic improvements. So I wouldn't say the light airs TNZ will be favourite anymore. 

I would say today was getting in the range of the faster ap boards. 

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3 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Ah?? We still need to win three races to win the cup...if we win 1 race tomorrow then OR can still drop another race after that before it becomes sudden death. As long as we keep winning at least one race per day we will be fine, it's if we loose two races in one day that ill be concerned. Remember AR won 2 races off us as well.

My mistake. 

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4 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Ah?? We still need to win three races to win the cup...if we win 1 race tomorrow then OR can still drop another race after that before it becomes sudden death. As long as we keep winning at least one race per day we will be fine, it's if we loose two races in one day that ill be concerned. Remember AR won 2 races off us as well.

Keep chipping away. 

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26 minutes ago, Alpinefolk said:

Jimmy complaining about the dial down penalty. He's going to feel like an arse when he watches the footage.

no he won't - he's already an arse - he knows full well he didn't give enough room - very unsporting to whine about the umpiring.

having finally won a start (after 5 fails), he'll be so cocky in the starts tomorrow - could be his undoing.

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Just watching race 2 again.  Etnz lost that.  It came down to that pressure in the top left. 

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11 minutes ago, Qman said:

I would say today was getting in the range of the faster ap boards. 

Agreed - forecast at present is a bit lighter tomorrow.

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1 minute ago, Qman said:

Just watching race 2 again.  Etnz lost that.  It came down to that pressure in the top left. 

Should have cover

 

 

 

 

 

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Just watched again too. Should have covered more on leg 5, forced OR to do more tacks to keep any split going.

It also showed how crap the TV package is. Boat goes into a tack/gybe - cue cut to shot of grinders on the other boat...  BAH!

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ETNZ got full love from the umpires today, similar (although nowhere near as extreme) to the race with Artemis. But one thing they have shown is that 'hunting' when on starboard is all bets off, and you can be sure Spithill and Slingsby will have processed that information. Ultra close quarter maneuvers is one area where separating flight control from steering might be a negative.

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I don't think we know enough from todays races to make any calls whatsoever... any speed differential might just have been down to daily setup for these conditions.

As 2013 showed the "mathematics" of tit-for-tat wins is irrelevant... if one boat can get a distinct speed edge they can win every remaining race regardless of how many remain.

What we can say is:

- Oracle are much faster than they were in light conditions and looked to have a slight speed edge *today*

- Jimmy and oracle made some bad errors in both races

- PB and etnz made some bad errors in race 2

- Oracle as the rule making team with the most funds and now armed with plenty of data from etnz have done well to give themselves 5 days to copy the better design

- The bmx in light airs clearly added dead weight and is it any surprise to see their knee-jerk copycat hybrid system fail to deliver?

Personally I am very impressed with the improvements Oracle have made.

Jimmy blaming his software and the umpires is typically ungracious of the man.

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Thought he didn't get accreditation!!

He posted somewhere in here that his accreditation came through. Pretty sure that is the jinx on Emirates that Oracle Team USA needed. Yel_wink.gif

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55 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am watching today's first race now, which I missed. Seems like the NZers around here have it backwards. Now to win, Kiwis need to get multiple penalties in their favor and count on OR to make mistakes.

I know you are late to the party (fairweather much?) but if you think two (unforced) penalties which mean dropping back two boat lengths at 20 knots is equal to 2 mins distance I'd suggest going back and watching a bit more of this regatta.

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53 minutes ago, generative.design said:

Mr. Clean has the mic :P

Yep, asked a longwinded question about age and Burling barely got into ignoring it before Clean threw 'LIKE ME!' as a following trailer. Which interrupted PB for no good reason that I can figure, except for Clean's subconsciously trying to make it about himself, his own presence, his own opinions, his own bullshitersism? Lol, cringeworthy.

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1 hour ago, yikes said:

OR could have won both today without mistakes

Yes. You're right. They are right back in this.

It will be interesting to see how ETNZ respond. Back in AC34, this is where it all turned to shit, because we had no answer. 

Will history repeat? I don't want to look!!!!

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, asked a longwinded question about age and Burling barely got into ignoring it before Clean through 'LIKE ME' as a following trailer. Which interrupted PB for no good reason that I can figure, except for Clean's subconsciously trying to make it about himself, his own presence, his own opinions, his own bullshitersism? Lol, cringeworthy.

Exactly! A clown. 

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Just now, Paddywackery said:

Exactly! A clown. 

I really don't like the age question. I think it's very unfair. And it's not as though I'm a fan of Jimmy's. 

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4 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, asked a longwinded question about age and Burling barely got into ignoring it before Clean through 'LIKE ME' as a following trailer. Which interrupted PB for no good reason that I can figure, except for Clean's subconsciously trying to make it about himself, his own presence, his own opinions, his own bullshitersism? Lol, cringeworthy.

Not your best mate then, Mr Clean? 

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Enzed cood still hav wun last rayss, dyoo think, if thay had tact on fayss of Orickel below last top mark and led into serckle?

\Insted ov dipping

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, asked a longwinded question about age and Burling barely got into ignoring it before Clean through 'LIKE ME' as a following trailer. Which interrupted PB for no good reason that I can figure, except for Clean's subconsciously trying to make it about himself, his own presence, his own opinions, his own bullshitersism? Lol, cringeworthy.

 

^ Problems you boys?

 

This is the same person lecturing others here about being civil :wacko:

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13 minutes ago, jorge said:

Should have cover

Agreed, but the problem with simply "covering" is that the artificial course boundaries mean you can end up in a position where you can fail to lay.

Also in conditions where they were clearly having a few touch downs, one bad covering tack or gybe could have killed them just as badly as the decision not to cover.

 

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3 minutes ago, nav said:

 

^ Problems you boys?

 

This is the same person lecturing others here about being civil :wacko:

Good one

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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yes. You're right. They are right back in this.

It will be interesting to see how ETNZ respond. Back in AC34, this is where it all turned to shit, because we had no answer. 

Will history repeat? I don't want to look!!!!

No, I don't believe history will repeat itself at all. Different boats, different crews, different race schedule. 

PB looked remarkably relaxed. Part of ETNZ's strengths is the lack of fear and the calm determination. I believe the conditions and setup played a part today. Oracle did a great job in race 2 but they have a long way to go and need perfection. Watch for ETNZ to now get faster with the mod they've been saving for their first defeat. I believe they've sandbagged wisely. Correction: kept something in reserve. 

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4 minutes ago, snaerk said:

Enzed cood still hav wun last rayss, dyoo think, if thay had tact on fayss of Orickel below last top mark and led into serckle?

\Insted ov dipping

He's back!! 

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4 minutes ago, snaerk said:

Enzed cood still hav wun last rayss, dyoo think, if thay had tact on fayss of Orickel below last top mark and led into serckle?

\Insted ov dipping

Snaerk!!! 

Welcome back mate! I have inquired here before about where you were this cycle but no one knew. Where have you been??

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Say what you like about JS, but today he and the team were great.

After that first win in race 6, Jimmy congratulated his team and said, "Here we go boys. Here we go."

Now I think I can feel Jays' nightmare. 

How will the ETNZ guys respond?

 

 

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1 minute ago, NZL5 said:

Snaerk!!! 

Welcome back mate! I have inquired here before about where you were this cycle but no one knew. Where have you been??

Bizzy

 

/but happy to be back ryt now - intressting tymz

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4 minutes ago, KoW said:

Agreed, but the problem with simply "covering" is that the artificial course boundaries mean you can end up in a position where you can fail to lay.

Also in conditions where they were clearly having a few touch downs, one bad covering tack or gybe could have killed them just as badly as the decision not to cover.

 

I would have cover, but i would have never even get close to racing AC

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10 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Not your best mate then, Mr Clean? 

Actually, we shared good times in Valencia so I know he's big-ego'd but capable of also being decent. 

Problem since then has been the constant, endless, trashing of anything and everything AC - a direct insult to every one of the 500K interested posts in the AC forum. Mostly his problems seem to be with the PR side of it, which strikes me as dumb since he has zero professional cred in that area. 

After trashing it for so long, apparently to make egotistical claims that he is some kind of PR expert, his is now two-facedly attracted enough to go interject himself into an event he has been professing to hate? 

Sorry, I just think it's a bit filthy. He would have stuck to his 'morals' and stayed the f away if he'd actually had any.

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55 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

PB - superb answer to CLeans question

He didn't answer it at all!

 

Outterridge gave a much better answer in the 10m interview that is uploading now.  Jimmy came up afterwards and punched me in the gut before giving me a hug and saying 'thanks for asking a real fucking question mate.' 

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8 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I really don't like the age question. I think it's very unfair. And it's not as though I'm a fan of Jimmy's. 

Why, are you old?

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Just now, snaerk said:

Bizzy

Hope 'bisnis' has been good. Where are you now?

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Say what you like about JS, but today he and the team were great.

After that first win in race 6, Jimmy congratulated his team and said, "Here we go boys. Here we go."

Now I think I can feel Jays' nightmare. 

How will the ETNZ guys respond?

 

 

Sail better and go faster. 

 

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52 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Thought he didn't get accreditation!!

18 minutes after posting my 'banned' story i got a friendly email.  Funny how that works.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

He didn't answer it at all!

 

Outterridge gave a much better answer in the 10m interview that is uploading now.  Jimmy came up afterwards and punched me in the gut before giving me a hug and saying 'thanks for asking a real fucking question mate.' 

And you then feel validated?

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