• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

130 posts in this topic

The event that will always be the most magical for me is no more.  I proposed to my wife on the Friday of the 2006 event as the sun set on Mallory Square, and have had innumerable memorable stories from that odd little island at the end of Hwy 1.

 

And all the king's horses and all the king's men, couldn't put Key West Race Week together again.   Scuttlebutt, US Sailing, Sailing World, the STC, ORC, IRC - all the promoters kept taking Devos' money while pretending things were great, never talking about the grave issues with the regatta,  and the inevitable ensued.  We contacted several STC folks once Premier was gone to help, but they didn't want our help.  Apparently, working with SA is way worse than utter failure?

The official PR claims they will maybe be back in 2019, but don't anybody hold their breath. Sponsorship nearly impossible to find thanks to the event's tiny competitor and media footprint over the past 5 years.  




 

Quote

 

AFTER EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION AND DELIBERATION THE STORM TRYSAIL CLUB HAS DECIDED NOT TO ORGANIZE AND HOLD KEY WEST RACE WEEK IN JANUARY 2018. MANY FACTORS LED TO THIS DIFFICULT DECISION. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WITH DECLINING PARTICIPATION, THE EVENT HAS BECOME HEAVILY DEPENDENT UPON SPONSORSHIP MAKING THE EVENT UNSUSTAINABLE IN ITS CURRENT FORMAT. OUR PRIMARY SPONSORS REMAIN VERY SUPPORTIVE AND THE STORM TRYSAIL CLUB IS COMMITTED TO EXPOLRING ALTERNATIVE FORMATS FOR THE FUTURE THAT ADDRESS CHANGING CONDITIONS IN OUR SPORT. THE CLUB ANTICIPATES THAT THIS COULD LEAD TO ANOTHER EDITION AS SOON AS 2019. 

THE STORM TRYSAIL CLUB WISHES TO THANK ESPECIALLY QUANTUM SAILS (THE TITLE SPONSOR FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS) AS WELL AS THE CITY AND COMMUNITY OF KEY WEST FOR THEIR GRACIOUS HOSPITALITY AND HELP IN UNDERWRITING THIS EVENT WHICH HAS SPANNED THE LAST 30 YEARS. MANY THANKS AS WELL TO ALL OUR OTHER SPONSORS, SUPPORTERS AND PAST PARTICIPANTS FOR THEIR SUPPORT OF THE EVENT AND OF THE SPORT OF SAILING. MOST IMPORTANTLY WE WISH TO THANK THE COUNTLESS VOLUNTEERS, STORM TRYSAIL CLUB MEMBERS AND OTHERS WHO MADE KEY WEST RACE WEEK POSSIBLE AND PRODUCED A WORLD-CLASS EVENT.



LEONARD SITAR                                                            

COMMODORE - STORM TRYSAIL CLUB



JOHN FISHER

QUANTUM KEY WEST RACE WEEK

 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice all-caps release.   The red MAGA hat was probably covering the Caps-Lock key.

One of our traditionally biggest events here in Hawaii - the Memorial day Around-Oahu race looks about as healthy - I hear we have a whopping 9 entries as of the skipper's meeting.   Yeah,  Ocean racing for regular folks is in sustained decline.

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was dead years ago when they started catering to the big boys, and forgot about us pee ons.

Block will be next if the prices keep sky rocketing  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Nice all-caps release.   The red MAGA hat was probably covering the Caps-Lock key.

One of our traditionally biggest events here in Hawaii - the Memorial day Around-Oahu race looks about as healthy - I hear we have a whopping 9 entries as of the skipper's meeting.   Yeah,  Ocean racing for regular folks is in sustained decline.

  

NINE???? Jeez ,remember when we had 30 plus!? The parties at KYC , Pokai Bay and then WYC were epic fun! Great sailing, and what a cast of characters. 

Same here the Mills Race in 2 weeks use to have a hundred entries not sure there  are even 30 today. The Melges 32s took a 6 SPM hit  to 15 SPM...  we use to race the boat in 10 -12 races during the season. Now maybe half that and then Lauderdale to KW every year. Doing the Cove Island cse in this years  Port Huron to Mackinac, under ORR. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sux.  Glad I got in on the last one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Chief - I can remember a year when we had eight J-24s doing the 3-Day !  and that was PLUS IOR(5-6 boats) , PHRF 1( 6-8 boats)  ,2 (8-10 boats) , 3 (10-12 boats)  & C (6-10 boats)   -- ( the Js raced PHRF 3 + class honors )  good times  ( I'm guessing 1987 )

More owners got sick of the "arms race" and tired of developing ever-larger crews - in some respects,  a couple of the most keen competitors did it to themselves - they made relevant participation so expensive most folks gave up,  or in the case of the guy that killed One Design racing in town - made competing in a regatta so offensive they walked away and never looked back.

Either way,  our sport idoes not have a good prognosis.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Yeah Chief - I can remember a year when we had eight J-24s doing the 3-Day !  and that was PLUS IOR(5-6 boats) , PHRF 1( 6-8 boats)  ,2 (8-10 boats) , 3 (10-12 boats)  & C (6-10 boats)   -- ( the Js raced PHRF 3 + class honors )  good times  ( I'm guessing 1987 )

More owners got sick of the "arms race" and tired of developing ever-larger crews - in some respects,  a couple of the most keen competitors did it to themselves - they made relevant participation so expensive most folks gave up,  or in the case of the guy that killed One Design racing in town - made competing in a regatta so offensive they walked away and never looked back.

Either way,  our sport idoes not have a good prognosis.

 

We won it on Charlie Dole's J-24 in 2001! The wettest I have ever been,  slogging 30 miles up wind to Kaneohe Bay with 7 ! The J-35s finally  caught us at Makapuu. Second day surfing down the coast with all the fishing gear out ,  we hook into something HUGE , Big L has like the 5k test shit out we abruptly come off the step and almost pulled the stern rail out of Charlie's boat! Kite , jib and his Cal 20 loose luffed as a an inside stay sail, SNAP the piano wire breaks,  back on the step guessing a big tiger shark... That was a FUN year! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah,  for every success story - like this year's rising program from Keehi,  the Ranger 33 Knot Right ( a real blue-collar racing program) there are two tales like the guy that couldn't handle a 44 footer program so he got a TP52,  or the guy that had great sailing on a 40-foot racer-cruiser and went up to a full-race 46...and is out of racing 3 years later.

We've seen it how many times ?   I swear,  the first thing I do when someone tells me they want to buy a boat is to lop off 10 feet from whatever they are dreaming of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

The event that will always be the most magical for me is no more.  I proposed to my wife on the Friday of the 2006 event as the sun set on Mallory Square, and have had innumerable memorable stories from that odd little island at the end of Hwy 1.

You did as much to kill the event as all the other variables. Stop with the fake sincerity and get on with your victory dance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm racing this weekend on my buddy;s Santana 35. Did the Mac on it last summer, had a blast! Nothing like standing head room , a dry bunk, hot coffee.  The arm's "racing" on the coasts and Caribbean has tamed the sport and sadly you are correct...c u in November! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clean you did nothing to promote Key west except bad mouth the event after they never asked you back .seems to be a trend not Many clubs or events want you anymore 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like how you guys never miss an opportunity to take a shot at Clean !  On one hand he's irrelevant,  on the other his criticism of the event killed it - either he's far more influential than you'll ever admit,  or you are blaming the cheerleaders for the team's drubbing.   

Key West,  and the Heydays of the SORC went on the slide when folks changed how they raced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was never more than a shallow replacement for the old SORC at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Happie Jack said:

So is this demise Obama or Hillary`s fault?

Well, you can't blame Trump for this one;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys have knife-wheeled chariot races at your regattas ?   Sweet !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It mabey time foura Stock Iland Race Weeke, whattia thick?  Itted be teh same butte diffentte.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jesposito said:

It was dead years ago when they started catering to the big boys, and forgot about us pee ons.

Block will be next if the prices keep sky rocketing  

exactly

 

higher entry costs and the huge boats soaking up all the crew who want to be back at the docks before sunset

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jesposito said:

It was dead years ago when they started catering to the big boys, and forgot about us pee ons.

Block will be next if the prices keep sky rocketing  

Big boys ?  KWRW is mostly one design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, savoir said:

Big boys ?  KWRW is mostly one design.

That's where a lot of the big boys went too.

OD where the top boats are paying the crews.
Get back to me when you know how much the winning J70  paid in daily salaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is it any coincidence that KWRW dies the year Espo retired to ride bikes?  I think not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KWRW died because the costs continued to grow despite a nasty economy. That's why we stopped going. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Never once even considered any nonsense about exposure on SA. Who the hell picks a regatta because of that?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, jesposito said:

That's where a lot of the big boys went too.

OD where the top boats are paying the crews.
Get back to me when you know how much the winning J70  paid in daily salaries.

Salaries on a J70?

Heavens to murgatroyd !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bloodshot said:

is it any coincidence that KWRW dies the year Espo retired to ride bikes?  I think not

Theire our allotta thiges you blamm on expo butte thissis notte hisse fallte.  Pourley cooincidentalle.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the events that are dying are basically dying from the same cause...when winning becomes more important then going somewhere cool with your buds and having a great time sailing against a bunch of like minded people, popularity will die off, and the peons, as espo so eloquently puts it, will stop going...got little to do with 3 days or 5.  It has to be fun for the peons.  It has to be worth a peon giving up a week of his vacation, and a vacation or twos worth of money, or it will die.  There aren't enough big boat or OD professional programs around to keep regattas healthy.  You need to cater not to the big boys, but the peons.  Its a grassroots sport. Not a professional one.  Cater to the pros and regattas will continue to die.  Espo for president of US Sailing ;)

 

Glad I got to do a KWRW in 2008.  We were DFL every race, but still had a great time with some great buds...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's understandable that STC decided to cut it's losses on KWRW, and It's great that STC plans to perhaps, maybe, sort of re-boot KWRW in 2019 ... what do they think they can figure out in 18 months they can't in 6?

Moving forward, is there a good regatta venue in January in Florida that can serve as a replacement?  If it's successful in 2018 it will make it all the harder for STC to revive anything in KW in 2019.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole purpose of SORC  during the IOR days was to  take a holiday down south with your boat and crew  and race.    It was communal  NOT  for financial gain.    Now that  sailboat racing has become a version of  Nascar and NFL  it has died  since that  format  does not fit with communal.     Bringing  back the IOR  will not  solve the lethargy.   One design will not cut it.     Perhaps restricting it to  racer / cruisers with full interiors and requiring  all  crew to  sleep on the boat at the docks (or on the dock)   would bring back some communal  empathy.     People like Clean who make a living  from selling his opinions and not caring about long term harm  will  never  assist in its restoration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone that has been to KWRW  can attest it breaks down to about a grand per race on a "normal" budget. I have been 9 times and love the regatta. It served a purpose after SORC went to shit. Sure, the Q guys and DeVos stepped in to throw it a lifeline. If they did not, this would have caved years ago. 

The only people we can blame here is us.. We are the sailors that choose to go or not to go. No boats, no $$, no regatta. Look, NOOD participation is down, BIRW is all but extinct, Charleston was down a bit this year.... I see a trend...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

It mabey time foura Stock Iland Race Weeke, whattia thick?  Itted be teh same butte diffentte.

:)

That was our suggestion when STC first came to us after Peter Craig was removed with ideas.  We said you cannot sustain the event on TP52 and Maxis, they said 'but that's where all the entry fees are biggest!".

Lower budget, smaller boats, a real effort to contain costs and reimagine the schedule and take advantage of a purple-collar town with great conditions.

"Not interested"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That was our suggestion when STC first came to us after Peter Craig was removed with ideas.  We said you cannot sustain the event on TP52 and Maxis, they said 'but that's where all the entry fees are biggest!".

Lower budget, smaller boats, a real effort to contain costs and reimagine the schedule and take advantage of a purple-collar town with great conditions.

"Not interested"

Novel idea, with all your resources in the industry and clout on the website, why don't you guys on SA organize, and run it how you want to? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stiffler's Mom said:

Anyone that has been to KWRW  can attest it breaks down to about a grand per race on a "normal" budget. I have been 9 times and love the regatta. It served a purpose after SORC went to shit. Sure, the Q guys and DeVos stepped in to throw it a lifeline. If they did not, this would have caved years ago. 

The only people we can blame here is us.. We are the sailors that choose to go or not to go. No boats, no $$, no regatta. Look, NOOD participation is down, BIRW is all but extinct, Charleston was down a bit this year.... I see a trend...

 

Whoa!  I said WHOA!

 

What are you doing bringing common sense and logic to SA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

I like how you guys never miss an opportunity to take a shot at Clean !  On one hand he's irrelevant,  on the other his criticism of the event killed it - either he's far more influential than you'll ever admit,  or you are blaming the cheerleaders for the team's drubbing.   

Whether in San Diego or Key West, it sure seems to be the case that events flounder mainly because Sailing Anarchy tried to come swooping to the rescue and was rejected. The SA boys can make any racing event into a massive success, just ask 'em.  Had they only been allowed to help, boats would've flocked in, begging to be allowed to race.

No idea how influential Clean and crew really are.....but we sure know how influential they think they can be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm an addled geriatric, but I'm sure I remember sailing it in 84 or 85

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, sr chief said:

NINE???? Jeez ,remember when we had 30 plus!? The parties at KYC , Pokai Bay and then WYC were epic fun! Great sailing, and what a cast of characters. 

Same here the Mills Race in 2 weeks use to have a hundred entries not sure there  are even 30 today. The Melges 32s took a 6 SPM hit  to 15 SPM...  we use to race the boat in 10 -12 races during the season. Now maybe half that and then Lauderdale to KW every year. Doing the Cove Island cse in this years  Port Huron to Mackinac, under ORR. 

We did the race in 1972 on a new Santana 22 a friend of my dad's bought. We got to know the cutter Cape Corwin(?) quite well as we were Tail-End-Charlie all 3 days. Saw my first kite blow-out on a Cal 33 as they were coming up overtaking us out of Kaneohe Bay, red & white cross-cut zipped right across the middle, the tapes holding it together.

That was a long 3 days...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rejected said:

The whole purpose of SORC  during the IOR days was to  take a holiday down south with your boat and crew  and race.    It was communal  NOT  for financial gain.    Now that  sailboat racing has become a version of  Nascar and NFL  it has died  since that  format  does not fit with communal.     Bringing  back the IOR  will not  solve the lethargy.   One design will not cut it.     Perhaps restricting it to  racer / cruisers with full interiors and requiring  all  crew to  sleep on the boat at the docks (or on the dock)   would bring back some communal  empathy.     People like Clean who make a living  from selling his opinions and not caring about long term harm  will  never  assist in its restoration.

Pretty much, sort of.

The SORC started in the early 50s, under the CCA rule. Several Florida YCs had 'signature' races...St Pete YC hosted the Havana Race, Coral Reef YC hosted the Nassau Race, etc. Many boat owners brought their boats down from up north for the entire winter, to race and cruise, and the SORC was created to make a series of races to accomodate them and in support of each other. You are correct, it was a communal thing, not a commercial venture. The host YCs provided their own R/Cs and boats. The races were spread out, such that it was possible to return home for a few days between, or crews could comfortably stay on boat between races (whom often were family members). Not all boats did the entire series, many just entered one race, such as SP-FL, or raced just the FL east coast races. The SORC grew in numbers for the next 20 years, peaking in the early 70s (I think 1973 was the biggest, about 130 boats).  Several things led to its decline. Cost was a big thing. IOR boats became more stripped out...not really suitable for the crew to live aboard for a month, and uncomfortable at sea (constant riding the rail, even off watch). The schedule was condensed, by popular demand, but that only made it more difficult to return to work between races. There were a few incidents in Bahamas, which put off people from going there, let alone bring wives/kids. It had run its course.

although KWRW took the spot on calendar, it really was a completely different event. It's function was as a commercial venture, and relied on hired boats/personell instead of YC volunteers. Cost to run it went up, so did entry fees. Local hotels/rentals grew expensive (at KWRW #1 we rented an entire house for the week for about $1000). Basically, cost to do the event kept people away.

Something will arise to replace KWRW, but IDK what. Key West is too expensive and logistically remote to host a large event, so it will probably be elsewhere. Most likely SE FL, as there's a number of clubs to provide dockage and personel. St Pete YC is limited by water depth...can't accomodate the 52s and maxis... plus they still host NOOD for the smaller boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Hwyl said:

I'm an addled geriatric, but I'm sure I remember sailing it in 84 or 85

First year was '88.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, RKoch said:

First year was '88.

detailles schmetailles!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good overview Koch......it definitely jogged  my codger memory.     There are still lots of  CCA/ IOR etc  cruiser racers along the east coast that could try to restart a family based SORC  for its original purpose.    Communal fun in a nice climate.    The various yacht clubs up and down the coast could  get together to make it happen  (in my dream world).   It could be restricted to  owner/ driver boats  with minimum 3 family members as crew.    Hell,  I'm dreaming.   My own Club won't even consider such a thing.   They won't even consider a nostalgia start  for boats 40 plus years old.      Bugger it,   time for a martini,   or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KW may work as a biennial event instead of every year. Even the best of things can get worn-out doing it every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing is for sure, the J70 class will be looking for a home to fill this gap. Maybe Melges 24 too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, sunseeker said:

One thing is for sure, the J70 class will be looking for a home to fill this gap. Maybe Melges 24 too. 

St Pete NOOD already hosts Melges, possibly J-70s too.  Biscayne Bay a great spot for them. Sarasota Bay also is a great spot, if a suitable host can be found with enough dock space. All would be lower cost than KW, and save many hours drive time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy. Poste mortems are always fun. Complaining about STC "not listening to us" is both childish and futile. STC stepped up and gave it a good shot. Tip of the hat for that and a tip of the hat for shooting it in the head, 'cause it was already dead.

Bottom line is this, IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID!  (note, the follow is not a political statement, it is simply pointing to reality, so can the "take it to PA bullshit")

All amateur sports are dying. They are dying because of a lack of time in people's lives to set the time aside for a round of golf or a few sets of tennis, none the less to take a  month to prep boat, crew and get it all to the venue and back. People are too busy just trying to earn a damn living and disposable income scarce. It is the economy. It is the burden of over-bearing and over taxing governments. It is "The Great Society" that has us all being the slaves to our overlord masters of the political elite class.  Our society has evolved to the point where freedom can no longer be afforded to the average person and activities such as sailing are just a casualty.

From The Hunt for Red October.

Andrei Bonovia:
[to Captain Tupolev] You arrogant ass! You've killed us!

Seems fitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Billie boy,   is this your suicide note ?    Your depression is palpable .     Try not watching television and avoid all media including  PA  here at SA.     Try a cloistered life but avoid  being celebate  as it allegedly fucks up the hormones.     There is lots of time for sailing with or without family.    Just take it and do it.    Get an old boat and have fun.     Don't worry about Elites.....I have never met an elite in all my ancient years.    Why?   Because I don't want to.    The economy is adequate for day to day life.    Enjoy it.   Just don't be delusional about your suppressed desire to be part of an Elite.    Your  Elite  is  really just  SA  whackjobs.    Should be enough for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

..People are too busy just trying to earn a damn living and disposable income scarce...

This. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

All amateur sports are dying. They are dying because of a lack of time in people's lives to set the time aside for a round of golf or a few sets of tennis, none the less to take a  month to prep boat, crew and get it all to the venue and back. People are too busy just trying to earn a damn living and disposable income scarce. It is the economy. It is the burden of over-bearing and over taxing governments. It is "The Great Society" that has us all being the slaves to our overlord masters of the political elite class.  Our society has evolved to the point where freedom can no longer be afforded to the average person and activities such as sailing are just a casualty.

From The Hunt for Red October.

I dointe remebber thisse in booke ore moovie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Big Show said:

This. 

I disagree.  I work 60+/- hours a week, yet still race many Sundays between early March and early December.  And starting a few weeks back, will be nearly every Wednesday night through Labor Day, and now every other Tuesday nights in a women's series where all drivers and majority of crew are women.  But I race on OPB's, which costs nothing, except some minor helping out with boat chores when I am available.  So, a couple hundred races over 9 months is doable for anyone who wants to crew for someone else.  And if I didn't need the overtime from 10 hours of time and a half on Saturdays, I would be racing those days as well. There's a local boat where the owner doesn't drive, and I considered trying for that position, but decided not to, as I really enjoy the people who I sail with in that series, my wife crews with us, and I get to drive sometimes when this owner is away for work.  So, it can be done, if one really wants to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 But I race on OPB's, which costs nothing, except some minor helping out with boat chores when I am available.  

OPBs cost a lot to the OPs.  As a former OP with a B, I looked around one day and said why am I doing this to my family?  Resources that should have been available to them were being diverted to the B.  Time that could have been spent with them was spent finding, cultivating and managing crew.  Not to mention managing the B and all who worked on her.  I too now sail on OPBs but the OPs are leaving the sport fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I disagree.  I work 60+/- hours a week, yet still race many Sundays between early March and early December.  And starting a few weeks back, will be nearly every Wednesday night through Labor Day, and now every other Tuesday nights in a women's series where all drivers and majority of crew are women.  But I race on OPB's, which costs nothing, except some minor helping out with boat chores when I am available.  So, a couple hundred races over 9 months is doable for anyone who wants to crew for someone else.  And if I didn't need the overtime from 10 hours of time and a half on Saturdays, I would be racing those days as well. There's a local boat where the owner doesn't drive, and I considered trying for that position, but decided not to, as I really enjoy the people who I sail with in that series, my wife crews with us, and I get to drive sometimes when this owner is away for work.  So, it can be done, if one really wants to.

Now factor in needing a block of 8-10 days to tow a boat across the country, rig and launch it, practice day, five days of racing, then repeat everything in reverse. 

That's a tough deal for most of us, and that's completely disregarding cost. 

(We are discussing KWRW and not local beer can racing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the mod-2000's, KW was a 50k event for a decent 40' program. That's an expensive week. We also needed to ask 10 guys, mostly Cat 1's to give up 10 days to do the event. That's 50% of the average american  worker's vacation time. No small feat. At the time in Newport, there was also a thriving big bat scene. Today, it's just not there. Not enough owners willing to part with their money at that particular rate. It's more fun to fly to St. Maarten and rent a bumper boat.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Now factor in needing a block of 8-10 days to tow a boat across the country, rig and launch it, practice day, five days of racing, then repeat everything in reverse. 

That's a tough deal for most of us, and that's completely disregarding cost. 

(We are discussing KWRW and not local beer can racing)

Not disagreeing with that, my comment was addressed to those in the thread speaking of the death of racing in general.  I certainly don't have that sort of time, but will take vacation from work for Atlantic Nationals in Maine in August.  And happy, and very LUCKY, to have a ride with a former winner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, mr_ryano said:

In the mod-2000's, KW was a 50k event for a decent 40' program. 

are you kidding me? is that true? how do you arrive at that number?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2017 at 11:05 AM, jesposito said:

Block will be next if the prices keep sky rocketing  

Alan? or the race week ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2017 at 2:05 PM, jesposito said:

Block will be next if the prices keep sky rocketing  

148 entries, dunno how that stacks up to previous, as I haven't had the pleasure since '95, on Alcott's RP50 "Equation".  DC was there with his F1 "Stars & Stripes" and we rated dead nuts even.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Parma said:

are you kidding me? is that true? how do you arrive at that number?

I wrote the checks.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Parma said:

are you kidding me? is that true? how do you arrive at that number?

You could pass 50k easy. It all depends on how many new sails you buy for the regatta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real reason is nobody has time anymore to help put on the race. Moreover - the organizers got little help. It is easy to bring a boat, sail the course and drink at the bar. How about all those thousands of unpaid hours and grief those organizing folks had to do so rich jerks and young turks could get off with their egos and verbrato.

How many times do we read here bashing yacht clubs and oldsters who run them. How often do folks go and thank the folks that hosted the event. No wonder we have unbelievable tools and corporate dickheads running the AC today. Look around you girls and boys, we made the dying mess. Shut up and stop point fingers at the closing down of these races. They will be closing yours locally too. Moreover stop blaming Clean, the old lady who used to write down your finishing order on the committee boat or the loss of community sponsored regattas and look to yourselves when you wonder where this great sport and recreation all went. We all flushed this old, worn out toilet and very few of you people ever paid for and worked to replace the ass paper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mr_ryano said:

I wrote the checks.......

will you be my friend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, mr_ryano said:

I wrote the checks.......

44' boat, crew of 14 with a shore guy, delivery, housing, food, dockage, rental car, trailer delivery, fuel, return delivery, $700 flights, parts and labor was close to 80k this year.  30k on flights and housing alone.  

Hell, we spent $800 on friggen bike rentals...

But the weather was awesome and I had a blast.

Edit: and everyone's $700 flight was in some way shape or form delayed, cancelled, or proper fucked.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Parma said:

will you be my friend SPONSOR?!

FIFY!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2017 at 0:33 PM, ~HHN92~ said:

We did the race in 1972 on a new Santana 22 a friend of my dad's bought. We got to know the cutter Cape Corwin(?) quite well as we were Tail-End-Charlie all 3 days. Saw my first kite blow-out on a Cal 33 as they were coming up overtaking us out of Kaneohe Bay, red & white cross-cut zipped right across the middle, the tapes holding it together.

That was a long 3 days...

I'll bet a longgg 3 days!!! Fun race for sure, miss it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kack said:

44' boat, crew of 14 with a shore guy, delivery, housing, food, dockage, rental car, trailer delivery, fuel, return delivery, $700 flights, parts and labor was close to 80k this year.  30k on flights and housing alone.  

Hell, we spent $800 on friggen bike rentals...

But the weather was awesome and I had a blast.

Edit: and everyone's $700 flight was in some way shape or form delayed, cancelled, or proper fucked.

Exactly. And for what it's worth, your crew list says that everyone onboard was a Cat 1, so that doesn't even include the cost of paying pros like many boats do. 

For what it's worth - I genuinely don't believe that "entry fees" proper were the straw that broke the camel's back. The 44 footer mentioned above spent ~$1,700 on their entry fee. That's barely 2% of the overall cost of their regatta. 

To some extent, Key West has priced themselves out of the market. Airlines, Marinas, Housing Rentals, Restaurants, Bars, everyone. Like every tourist trap resort town out there it's gotten much more expensive for much lower quality. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2017 at 8:03 AM, Bill's Sock Puppet said:

Moving forward, is there a good regatta venue in January in Florida that can serve as a replacement?  If it's successful in 2018 it will make it all the harder for STC to revive anything in KW in 2019.

I think the J/88 class should look long and hard at doing an Etchells Jaguar Cup style series of events in Coconut Grove on Biscayne Bay. The infrastructure and basic knowledge is right there and the concept is well proven. Do a bunch of weekend regattas at an amazing venue spread over the winter for more days of sailing and equal or lower cost than KWRW. New hoists in the area can absolutely accommodate the weight of a J/88.

Things like housing, flights, drive times, food costs, dockage, etc. etc are all dramatically lower in the Grove than KW. Plus it's a 5 minute motor from the dock out into Biscayne Bay and the racecourse!!

Do NOT try to do stuff out of Miami Beach. That's the same expensive kind of trap that KW was. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Ret. B52 Pilot said:

I think the J/88 class should look long and hard at doing an Etchells Jaguar Cup style series of events in Coconut Grove on Biscayne Bay. The infrastructure and basic knowledge is right there and the concept is well proven. Do a bunch of weekend regattas at an amazing venue spread over the winter for more days of sailing and equal or lower cost than KWRW. New hoists in the area can absolutely accommodate the weight of a J/88.

Things like housing, flights, drive times, food costs, dockage, etc. etc are all dramatically lower in the Grove than KW. Plus it's a 5 minute motor from the dock out into Biscayne Bay and the racecourse!!

Do NOT try to do stuff out of Miami Beach. That's the same expensive kind of trap that KW was. 

The problem with Biscayne Bay is that every small keel-boat class on the planet wants to do a winter series there "just like the Jaguar Series" and for obvious reasons, it's the best winter sailing in the US. There is however a finite amount of dock space, dry storage space and dates on the calendar to run such things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, march said:

The problem with Biscayne Bay is that every small keel-boat class on the planet wants to do a winter series there "just like the Jaguar Series" and for obvious reasons, it's the best winter sailing in the US. There is however a finite amount of dock space, dry storage space and dates on the calendar to run such things.

Goode pointte, moove it to Havanna.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many times did SA run front page articles about "DENGUE FEVER AT KEY WEST"? GMAFB, you all are high-fiving over the event's demise :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

How many times did SA run front page articles about "DENGUE FEVER AT KEY WEST"? GMAFB, you all are high-fiving over the event's demise :rolleyes:

That wase cleanes sywar opp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On May 25, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Monkey said:

KWRW died because the costs continued to grow despite a nasty economy. That's why we stopped going. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Never once even considered any nonsense about exposure on SA. Who the hell picks a regatta because of that?!?

If Alan and Scot had two balls each.  They'd host the Mother of All Regattas (MOAR), pick a location (look at the centroid of your subscribers), and rake in the money.  I have heard complaints from them about entry costs, class splits, PHRF being mean to sportboats...blah, blah, blah.  They have the busiest Sailing site on the internet and Clean does media with or without a pink flag.  Pick a venue and make it happen. 

But it won't, each viable venue has their regatta.  They could put feelers out about interest in certain areas, but I haven't seen it.  Much easier to kibbutz/complain from from the sideline and do nothing.  Predicting that sailboat racing will continue to decline over the years is not visionary, it's obvious.  

I can't believe, and wish him well, that Scot upgraded from an M32 to a SC33.  Porsche 911 to a dump truck...ok a Pickup with nice rims.  Wish him well.  Actually, if he preps the boat like he has (ala DC), he probably won't lose a race...but the fun factor has to be down.  But it is dual-purpose and that earns some points.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cal20sailor said:

If Alan and Scot had two balls each.  They'd host the Mother of All Regattas (MOAR), pick a location (look at the centroid of your subscribers), and rake in the money.  I have heard complaints from them about entry costs, class splits, PHRF being mean to sportboats...blah, blah, blah.  They have the busiest Sailing site on the internet and Clean does media with or without a pink flag.  Pick a venue and make it happen. 

Whast that lacke in Fresnoe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kentucky Lake!  I drove down it once years ago and the wind was howling but that doesn't matter.  Can anyone comment on the sailing as SA could do the MOAG there.  Thinking J70s, 24s, Ultimate 20s, and any other group that wanted to visit.  Run one course, use local RC talent (with an overseer), For a three day regatta think $500 and do the wristbands for the rest.  $100 for two nights of party, and three nights of breakfast.  With SA, can't fail, right Clean.  The only reason that KWRW failed is you weren't there, here's your chance.  Make it happen!  Find a marina with an adjacent campground, hire a jimi hendrix cover band for entertainment.  

I'm a snob, but I'd use a port-potti for a three day regatta to keep the costs down.  Crews dive in for a bath.  Could be great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"your" new here

http://sailinganarchy.com/sa-regatta/

 

https://yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=332

 

1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Kentucky Lake!  I drove down it once years ago and the wind was howling but that doesn't matter.  Can anyone comment on the sailing as SA could do the MOAG there.  Thinking J70s, 24s, Ultimate 20s, and any other group that wanted to visit.  Run one course, use local RC talent (with an overseer), For a three day regatta think $500 and do the wristbands for the rest.  $100 for two nights of party, and three nights of breakfast.  With SA, can't fail, right Clean.  The only reason that KWRW failed is you weren't there, here's your chance.  Make it happen!  Find a marina with an adjacent campground, hire a jimi hendrix cover band for entertainment.  

I'm a snob, but I'd use a port-potti for a three day regatta to keep the costs down.  Crews dive in for a bath.  Could be great. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:03 AM, Bill's Sock Puppet said:

Moving forward, is there a good regatta venue in January in Florida that can serve as a replacement?  If it's successful in 2018 it will make it all the harder for STC to revive anything in KW in 2019.

Tampa Bay could host except for maybe the big boats, you would have to get to the Gulf for them and it is too far from any marina facilities. Lots of hotels, beaches, bars, clubs, although you would have to get to Tampa near the stadium for the strip clubs. All the YC's could get together and provide RC, etc. Base it out of St. Pete and race between MacDill and the Skyway. You could maybe race the big boats below the Skyway but not sure on dockage, although the 52's make Miami work with a fairly shallow basin at the marina, tip-toeing out when below high tide.

Then pray for a good weather pattern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2017 at 11:22 AM, Happie Jack said:

So is this demise Obama or Hillary`s fault?

Just chalk it up to the blue blazer racist sport of sailing.

Who the F can afford it any more?? I know someone who paid more for a new 3Di Blade (on a 35'r) than I paid for my whole boat. ps: $7,500

Sailing has 2 feet int he coffin now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think mid January weather - Biscayne Bay/Tampa can be cold and as weather improves (towards mid Feb) BB in particular gets very busy. As the economy has improved, KW has gotten expensive and marina's redeveloped so choice is less and more expensive. Robbie's don't accept us any more and is likely to be redeveloped. Racing is no longer an important economic driver for the town and if the Navy facility is developed it's all over for sure! Having said all that - what's a good alternative (ice fishing??)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The alternatives are already there. It's easier to do a season in the Caribbean going to St. Thomas, St. Maarten, and Antigua. Dockwise is already set up and the logistics costs are split between events. Part f the problem with KW now that SORC is gone is the lack of other events to do. Huge cost for a one and done. As much as I'll miss KW, the Caribbean events are better sailing and more fun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Just chalk it up to the blue blazer racist sport of sailing.

Who the F can afford it any more?? I know someone who paid more for a new 3Di Blade (on a 35'r) than I paid for my whole boat. ps: $7,500

Sailing has 2 feet int he coffin now.

Everything in life is more money which creates less expendable income. My father was talking about housing prices the other day as an example. When he was making $35k houses were $150k for a nice three bedroom house. Now salaries out of college are $35k and houses are $300k for the same house. Add in the increase cost of school, food, general services, cars to commute, the basic needs far outweigh the ability for younger folk to afford the same lot.  The age of internet and always connected also doesn't help.  Far more work involved these days then years of even the early 90s, thus the time spent on leisure activities also decreases. My vacation priorities have always been sailing, however, I also don't have kids so that helps. Not everyone can take a week for their leisure activity leaving the family home.

Also boat prices. 1985 J35 was around $38k. You cannot even buy a J70 for that.  Talk about price increases over the years.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, trimfast said:

Everything in life is more money which creates less expendable income. My father was talking about housing prices the other day as an example. When he was making $35k houses were $150k for a nice three bedroom house. Now salaries out of college are $35k and houses are $300k for the same house. Add in the increase cost of school, food, general services, cars to commute, the basic needs far outweigh the ability for younger folk to afford the same lot.  The age of internet and always connected also doesn't help.  Far more work involved these days then years of even the early 90s, thus the time spent on leisure activities also decreases. My vacation priorities have always been sailing, however, I also don't have kids so that helps. Not everyone can take a week for their leisure activity leaving the family home.

Also boat prices. 1985 J35 was around $38k. You cannot even buy a J70 for that.  Talk about price increases over the years.

 

In 1971, I was 16 years old, making ten bucks and hour, under the table, painting boat bottoms, at a local boat yard.  Two years ago I wanted to figure out what that was in 2015 dollars.  I added about 15% to factor in a legit job with tax withholding, and plugged into a financial calculator that I googled.  In 1971, I was making the equivalent of over $70.00 an hour in 2015 dollars.  How much was a new muscle car in 1971?   It's all relative!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

In 1971, I was 16 years old, making ten bucks and hour, under the table, painting boat bottoms, at a local boat yard.  Two years ago I wanted to figure out what that was in 2015 dollars.  I added about 15% to factor in a legit job with tax withholding, and plugged into a financial calculator that I googled.  In 1971, I was making the equivalent of over $70.00 an hour in 2015 dollars.  How much was a new muscle car in 1971?   It's all relative!!!

Yes it is certainly relative. But, we also talk about this too with cars each year as we watch the auto auction on tv. A 1967 Corvette with the 427 engine was $5500 brand new.  Today's comparison of a z06 corvette starts at $79k. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, trimfast said:

Yes it is certainly relative. But, we also talk about this too with cars each year as we watch the auto auction on tv. A 1967 Corvette with the 427 engine was $5500 brand new.  Today's comparison of a z06 corvette starts at $79k. 

Yes, and what is that low mileage '67 427 Vette fetching at Mecum Auctions, these days!! LOL!!  Guy at work just sold his '63 split window for sick money!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Yes, and what is that low mileage '67 427 Vette fetching at Mecum Auctions, these days!! LOL!!  Guy at work just sold his '63 split window for sick money!!

Proper documented 427 Vette around $250k. Makes you kind of wish boats appreciated in value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this will finally be what we need to address the professionalization of the sport of sailing. Both in terms of crew makeup, but also in terms of the social expectations that events like Key West have set up for us over the last decade: That somehow "Grand Prix" is desirable and that "amateur" is a dirty word. That BIG boats are somehow inherently superior to little boats. That racing teams are actually small business enterprises and that their crews are employees who are afforded certain perks. That owners should thank sailors, and not the other way around. That it's BAD to have mistakes on the water or show up to an event with season old sails. That it's acceptable...even necessary... to practice for 3 days before a 5 day event. That $50,000 for a J/70 program for a week is the norm. 

All of these norms are inherently exclusionary and discouraging to the average sailor, yet they're indicative of the kind of message that Key West sends.

There will always be a space for professionalized sailing in the arenas like the TP52 or Maxi72 classes. They are, by their nature, professional boats. But when the lifeblood of the sport is the middle manager who races his C&C 35mkiii with his friends on Tuesday nights - why on earth is it acceptable to spend 5 days hyping the TP52s while leaving the smaller boat circles in obscurity?

The people sailing the ORC and Navigator Race classes this year kept the dream alive. The dream that if you have a good year in business or save up for a few years that you can take your Henderson 30, C&C 121, or J/105 down south and play in the sun with your friends. They represented the last people in the country to resist the idea that they should feel unwelcome or inferior for not owning a 250,000 30 foot sportboat with 4 professionals onboard. 

And I think that's the gist of it. It wasn't the money. At the end of the day, Key West is dead because at the very core it became unwelcoming. It was a regatta that said to the S2 9.1 owner or the Tripp 26 owner "Sure, you had One Design starts here well into the 2000s and you could come here. But why? You're not grand prix. T2Ptv won't bother putting you in their videos. Our news articles will put your achievements below the fold. Your sails are old and ratty, don't you want some new QUANTUM sails? You'll probably get yelled at by some uppity sailmaker in another fleet for getting in his way on the course. And at the end of the day, you're not in the running for any serious perpetual trophies. You'll be lucky to even make it to the awards ceremony because you'll be on Stock Island racing to put your boat on the trailer and be out the door Friday night so you can be back at your job Monday Morning!!!"

And as if to underscore my point, look at the history of Boat of the Week winners.

2017 - Quantum Racing TP52 Doug Devos (USA)

2016 Bella Mente J/V 72 Hap Fauth (USA)

2015 Calvi Network J/70 Carlo Alberini (ITA)

2014 Helly Hansen J/70 Tim Healy (USA)

2013 Full Throttle Melges 24 Brian Porter (USA)

2012 Samba Pa Ti Melges 32 John Kilroy, Jr. (USA)

2011 Blu Moon Melges 24 Franco Rossini (ITA)

2010 Samba Pa Ti Melges 32 John Kilroy, Jr. (USA)

2009 Star Melges 32 Jeff Ecklund (USA)

2008 Barking Mad Farr 40 James Richardson (USA)

2007 Giacomel Audi Racing Melges 24 Riccardo Simoneschi (ITA)

2006 Bellicosa Swan 45 Massimo Ferragamo (USA)

2005 Pegasus 525 Melges 24 Team Pegasus (USA)

2004 Mean Machine Farr 40 Peter De Ridder (NED)

2003 Zuni Bear J/105 Richard Bergmann (USA)

2002 Atalanti XI Farr 40 George Andreadis (GRE)

2001 Atalanti XI Farr 40 George Andreadis (GRE)

2000 Heartbreaker 1D35 Robert Hughes (USA)

1999 Hi Fling CM60 Irvine Laidlaw (UK)

1998 Abracadabra 1D48 Jim Andrews (USA)

1997 Windquest 1D48 Dick and Doug DeVos (USA)

1996 Bright Star N/M 46 Richard Breeden (USA)

1995 Infinity N/M 49 John Thomson, Jr. (USA)

1994 Thomas I-Punkt Mumm 36 Thomas Friese (GER)

1993 Highland Fling Swan 53 Irvine Laidlaw (UK)

1992 Gaucho Farr 44 Christian Schmiegelow (USA)

1991 Lonia Beneteau 1st41 John Matney & Clyde Stacey (USA)

1990 Babe Ruthless N/M30 Larry Harvey (USA)

1989 Diablesse Beneteau 42 Rod Sellers (USA)

1988 Brigadoon IV Frers 41 Robbie Pierce (USA

The Beneteaus, N/M30s, and Frers 41s that started the whole event get traded in for increasingly more and more grand prix teams. That a full 40% of BOTW winners went to Farr and Melges one designs alone tells you that the true heroes of the regatta in their PHRF boats were always the sideshow. Hell, there are no less than 4 repeat winners on that list. Not to detract from their accomplishments, but I find it hard to believe that John Kilroy Jr. was deserving of 2 BOTWs in 3 years. Maybe that second BOTW could have been symbolically given to <insert J/29 here>. I maintain that Key West stuck their heads in the sand right up until the end and threw everything they had behind the idea that Grand Prix is superior. If they had wanted to make a bold move to make people think, I mean REALLY made a statement, the organizers would have given BOTW to the winner of the Performance Cruising class. Or the winner of the Flying Tiger 7.5 charter class. Or even the winner of the ORC class. Because at no point in the previous 15 years had they thought "maybe we should thank these guys, maybe we should let them know that they have a chance to stand above their heroes for one night on one stage." That Terry Hutchinson or John Kosteki or Bora Gulari might stand in the crowd and clap for them for a change as they hold the big silverware. That they would be recognized for the fact that they were keeping the sport alive.

 

I say were, because the party is over and the lights are on and if you look around there's nobody left. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KW Rant Sock said:

Maybe this will finally be what we need to address the professionalization of the sport of sailing. Both in terms of crew makeup, but also in terms of the social expectations that events like Key West have set up for us over the last decade: That somehow "Grand Prix" is desirable and that "amateur" is a dirty word. That BIG boats are somehow inherently superior to little boats. That racing teams are actually small business enterprises and that their crews are employees who are afforded certain perks. That owners should thank sailors, and not the other way around. That it's BAD to have mistakes on the water or show up to an event with season old sails. That it's acceptable...even necessary... to practice for 3 days before a 5 day event. That $50,000 for a J/70 program for a week is the norm. 

All of these norms are inherently exclusionary and discouraging to the average sailor, yet they're indicative of the kind of message that Key West sends.

There will always be a space for professionalized sailing in the arenas like the TP52 or Maxi72 classes. They are, by their nature, professional boats. But when the lifeblood of the sport is the middle manager who races his C&C 35mkiii with his friends on Tuesday nights - why on earth is it acceptable to spend 5 days hyping the TP52s while leaving the smaller boat circles in obscurity?

The people sailing the ORC and Navigator Race classes this year kept the dream alive. The dream that if you have a good year in business or save up for a few years that you can take your Henderson 30, C&C 121, or J/105 down south and play in the sun with your friends. They represented the last people in the country to resist the idea that they should feel unwelcome or inferior for not owning a 250,000 30 foot sportboat with 4 professionals onboard. 

And I think that's the gist of it. It wasn't the money. At the end of the day, Key West is dead because at the very core it became unwelcoming. It was a regatta that said to the S2 9.1 owner or the Tripp 26 owner "Sure, you had One Design starts here well into the 2000s and you could come here. But why? You're not grand prix. T2Ptv won't bother putting you in their videos. Our news articles will put your achievements below the fold. Your sails are old and ratty, don't you want some new QUANTUM sails? You'll probably get yelled at by some uppity sailmaker in another fleet for getting in his way on the course. And at the end of the day, you're not in the running for any serious perpetual trophies. You'll be lucky to even make it to the awards ceremony because you'll be on Stock Island racing to put your boat on the trailer and be out the door Friday night so you can be back at your job Monday Morning!!!"

And as if to underscore my point, look at the history of Boat of the Week winners.

2017 - Quantum Racing TP52 Doug Devos (USA)

2016 Bella Mente J/V 72 Hap Fauth (USA)

2015 Calvi Network J/70 Carlo Alberini (ITA)

2014 Helly Hansen J/70 Tim Healy (USA)

2013 Full Throttle Melges 24 Brian Porter (USA)

2012 Samba Pa Ti Melges 32 John Kilroy, Jr. (USA)

2011 Blu Moon Melges 24 Franco Rossini (ITA)

2010 Samba Pa Ti Melges 32 John Kilroy, Jr. (USA)

2009 Star Melges 32 Jeff Ecklund (USA)

2008 Barking Mad Farr 40 James Richardson (USA)

2007 Giacomel Audi Racing Melges 24 Riccardo Simoneschi (ITA)

2006 Bellicosa Swan 45 Massimo Ferragamo (USA)

2005 Pegasus 525 Melges 24 Team Pegasus (USA)

2004 Mean Machine Farr 40 Peter De Ridder (NED)

2003 Zuni Bear J/105 Richard Bergmann (USA)

2002 Atalanti XI Farr 40 George Andreadis (GRE)

2001 Atalanti XI Farr 40 George Andreadis (GRE)

2000 Heartbreaker 1D35 Robert Hughes (USA)

1999 Hi Fling CM60 Irvine Laidlaw (UK)

1998 Abracadabra 1D48 Jim Andrews (USA)

1997 Windquest 1D48 Dick and Doug DeVos (USA)

1996 Bright Star N/M 46 Richard Breeden (USA)

1995 Infinity N/M 49 John Thomson, Jr. (USA)

1994 Thomas I-Punkt Mumm 36 Thomas Friese (GER)

1993 Highland Fling Swan 53 Irvine Laidlaw (UK)

1992 Gaucho Farr 44 Christian Schmiegelow (USA)

1991 Lonia Beneteau 1st41 John Matney & Clyde Stacey (USA)

1990 Babe Ruthless N/M30 Larry Harvey (USA)

1989 Diablesse Beneteau 42 Rod Sellers (USA)

1988 Brigadoon IV Frers 41 Robbie Pierce (USA

The Beneteaus, N/M30s, and Frers 41s that started the whole event get traded in for increasingly more and more grand prix teams. That a full 40% of BOTW winners went to Farr and Melges one designs alone tells you that the true heroes of the regatta in their PHRF boats were always the sideshow. Hell, there are no less than 4 repeat winners on that list. Not to detract from their accomplishments, but I find it hard to believe that John Kilroy Jr. was deserving of 2 BOTWs in 3 years. Maybe that second BOTW could have been symbolically given to <insert J/29 here>. I maintain that Key West stuck their heads in the sand right up until the end and threw everything they had behind the idea that Grand Prix is superior. If they had wanted to make a bold move to make people think, I mean REALLY made a statement, the organizers would have given BOTW to the winner of the Performance Cruising class. Or the winner of the Flying Tiger 7.5 charter class. Or even the winner of the ORC class. Because at no point in the previous 15 years had they thought "maybe we should thank these guys, maybe we should let them know that they have a chance to stand above their heroes for one night on one stage." That Terry Hutchinson or John Kosteki or Bora Gulari might stand in the crowd and clap for them for a change as they hold the big silverware. That they would be recognized for the fact that they were keeping the sport alive.

 

I say were, because the party is over and the lights are on and if you look around there's nobody left. 

Great speech, but those top boats bring the sponsor dollars, not phrf, orc, or the like. That is the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, now NOBODY is bringing in the sponsor dollars....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Grinder said:

Well, now NOBODY is bringing in the sponsor dollars....

Agreed. I also loved when T Hutch. wins the Noods and they are like his full crew gets a whole kit of HH. Lets give him things he doesnt need, or cant wear due to sponsor obligations lol. Talk about a waste of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

In 1971, I was 16 years old, making ten bucks and hour, under the table, painting boat bottoms, at a local boat yard.  Two years ago I wanted to figure out what that was in 2015 dollars.  I added about 15% to factor in a legit job with tax withholding, and plugged into a financial calculator that I googled.  In 1971, I was making the equivalent of over $70.00 an hour in 2015 dollars.  How much was a new muscle car in 1971?   It's all relative!!!

Around $3,500...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grinder said:

--golf clap--

You could not be more wrong Grinder.  I don't know who that sock is, but he's hit the nail on the head. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grinder said:

Well, now NOBODY is bringing in the sponsor dollars....

The sponsorships didn't work because the sponsors gave away free stuff to the pros. They worked because family-guy-racing program decided to buy the sails/hardware/apparel the sponsors were selling out of envy, gratitude, hope or some other emotion.

 

 Once family-guy figured out the system is rigged and there is nothing in it for him, he resented or became indifferent to the sponsors and took his business elsewhere.  Sponsors aren't dumb; they figured that out and stopped showing because there is no ROi 

And that's the way it is on the eve of June 2017.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think KW Rant ticked off pretty much everything all the major regattas have been doing.  It falls into line with the "Stay in your lane" line.  Sailing is what it is.  It isn't NASCAR or GOLF of any other sport that garners network air time and sponsors.  At it's core it is a majority grassroots membership.  The "Grand Prix" stuff is cool but it is a very small niche of a small niche sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a classic case of "cause and effect". Yes KWRW is dead but it is also high profile and gets a lot of press when is dies. Regattas are dying everywhere. Numbers are down.
This is a sailing problem, not a KWRW sponsorship problem.

Better question to pose... Why is racing sail boats not a popular as it used to be... I can't speak for the rest of the country but in Chicago it is way off the pace from the glory days of the early 2000s...

Crew issue?
$$$ issue?
YC issue?

No young blood?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

This is a classic case of "cause and effect". Yes KWRW is dead but it is also high profile and gets a lot of press when is dies. Regattas are dying everywhere. Numbers are down.
This is a sailing problem, not a KWRW sponsorship problem.

Better question to pose... Why is racing sail boats not a popular as it used to be... I can't speak for the rest of the country but in Chicago it is way off the pace from the glory days of the early 2000s...

Crew issue?
$$$ issue?
YC issue?

No young blood?

There is so much more that that can be done for far less $$$$ and time.


Another reason why sailing was booted out of the Para Games. It costs too much and takes too much time to get up to speed. New people say "WTF"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first raced in KWRW in 1994 on M24 the only pro's where guys running the big boats and the IMS 50' class. Everyone else was there because they wanted to be there for the great sailing and the night time fun. Now a days a large percentage of crews get paid raising the cost and pushing out the non pro teams. I do not have a problem paying crews but there are regattas and campaigns that should have pros and there are one's that should not. When I campaigned a star I paid a crew and a coach. You need a top crew to compete as a team plus when you ask a guy to give you 100 days of sailing a year he cannot hold down a regular job and take that much time off. Would I pay guys to sail with me on a J70 at Keywest? No, I would ask guys I want to have a good time with and enjoy their company. We might not win but we would do well and have a good time. So if you ask me the high dollar programs killed the middle fleet guys which dropped the numbers to where the pro only teams did not have enough of a turn out to cover the cost of running the regatta. 

An idea I have talked with other owners, should paid crews have to pay a maintenance fee or regatta fee to help support the event? It is a tax but they are the ones benefiting most from the regatta. No regatta no pay check!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other option is to organize a new reconstituted race from the same location. Find some of the great local sailing characters who would want it to succeed as well as the community businesses that have a vested interest. Bring your boats and your friends who want to sail with the intent to race and party.  Turn it into the class event you would want to see and work into into the calendar the benefits most everyone.

Who gives a crap about the rest. Sailing has always been about first hand experiences. The owners of any boats of quality need to have an event. You just need to start anew to capture a new generation for our community. Crying about the decline of this sailing venue and others sport rather than take responsibility for its continuance and growth is in itself a reflection on you and ultimately it's declining state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the KW community kept jacking up the housing rates they gouged for the Regatta it was only a matter of time.

 

SA is playing Trump taking credit where none is due. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Key West - dying if not dead

SORC - dead (with a possible rebound, I'd admit)

Clipper Cup/Kenwood - dead

SF BBS - on the deathbed

Etc....

However......

RORC entries in Europe for offshore races in the Channel and North Sea are hitting record numbers.  They sold out the limited 340 entries in the 2017 Fastnet in minutes.  French and Dutch inshore and offshore regattas everywhere, ditto.  Perhaps have a look over the Atlantic to see how they do it there?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BBS is only being held together by the small boat OD classes that start with a J. Wasn't J105 their biggest division recently ? Two years ago ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Key West - dying if not dead

SORC - dead (with a possible rebound, I'd admit)

Clipper Cup/Kenwood - dead

SF BBS - on the deathbed

Etc....

However......

RORC entries in Europe for offshore races in the Channel and North Sea are hitting record numbers.  They sold out the limited 340 entries in the 2017 Fastnet in minutes.  French and Dutch inshore and offshore regattas everywhere, ditto.  Perhaps have a look over the Atlantic to see how they do it there?

 

And in a similar vein, the ORC worlds has had to reject entries again because the racetrack is full. There seems to be strong interest in the Transquadra and Scandiwegian shorthanded races. And it seems that it's all happening in events that favour IRC and ORC type boats that normal people can actually buy and race.

It's like the Opti and Laser fleets - numbers are strong but SA and a lot of people in the industry are slinging shit at them because they are "uncool", instead of taking lessons about what they are doing right. It's bizarre that people here are pumping classes that can't get a decent fleet as the future" while abusing events that need to turn entries away,

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, The Jay said:

It's like the Opti and Laser fleets - numbers are strong but SA and a lot of people in the industry are slinging shit at them because they are "uncool", instead of taking lessons about what they are doing right. It's bizarre that people here are pumping classes that can't get a decent fleet as the future" while abusing events that need to turn entries away,

Macke the Oppis and Lsaeres foille and they wille be to coolle ot crappe on !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/31/2017 at 0:40 PM, stayoutofthemiddle said:

This is a classic case of "cause and effect". Yes KWRW is dead but it is also high profile and gets a lot of press when is dies. Regattas are dying everywhere. Numbers are down.
This is a sailing problem, not a KWRW sponsorship problem.

Better question to pose... Why is racing sail boats not a popular as it used to be... I can't speak for the rest of the country but in Chicago it is way off the pace from the glory days of the early 2000s...

Crew issue?
$$$ issue?
YC issue?

No young blood?

All of the above.  I've said this in other threads, but the cost to race nationally has grown to unsustained levels.  Much as what has happened in amateur bike racing, where many are dropping thousands on coaching just to hang as Cat 4's, putting in pro level time.  Sailboat racing is going through the same.  Anxious owners who go from one new class to the next thinking if they pay more and better crew, winning will enhance their enjoyment.  It doesn't  and they leave.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it the real cost, or is it the perceived cost?  It's not as if US sailing (or bike racing) is super competitive compared to the best in the world. 

If the very best from the USA are no better than the very best from other countries (and to be frank looking at the pro cyclists, AC and Olympics it seems that the USA is in a slump) then why do the average guys need to spend so much more just to be average? 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now