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Mooneyman

Santana 35 Keel Repair

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My Santana 35 Hull #62 has just suffered storm damage resulting in a weakened keel. It seems there may be a prescribed method for strengthening the keel. 

Looking for someone that may have some information on that. Here in Oklahoma not allot of sailboat experts :)

At a minimum I'm planning to re bonding the aft most rib just behind the aft keel bolt. Then adding a 3/8" saddle extending 6 - 8" beyond the keel attach point. 

Thoughts / Suggestions are much appreciated.

 

 

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Pics would help with a diagnosis...

As would knowing how  the damage occurred...  

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48 minutes ago, Crash said:

Pics would help with a diagnosis...

As would knowing how  the damage occurred...  

I'll upload pics in a bit. But basically the keel is sagging when on the hard. There is a 1/4 to 3/8" gap at the rear same at the front of the keel. You can see daylight at the front of the keel and a depression at the rear. There is a very small crack aft of the stern most keel bolt. At the base of the last rib. The crack is 4 " long and allows a very small amount of water to seep. 

This was a well known issue with early Santana's corrected in the shock 35. What I'm looking for is someone with knowledge of the approved repair.

 

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55 minutes ago, Crash said:

Pics would help with a diagnosis...

As would knowing how  the damage occurred...  

Damage occurred when the keel received an impact during the storm. Similar to a low speed running aground. Or dragging the keel on a hard bottom.

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Call Steve Schock

at Schock Boats Newport. He is the PE in the family. He knows the numbers and how older brother, Tom, put  those boats together.  A practical guy. ( rare for a engineer ) 

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Were you my customer, I would campaign for some rearrangement and remodeling inside the cabin. 

It is much more important your keel stays on your SAILBOAT, than your floating RV has the exact same interior it has always had. 

Structure was originally compromised to gain a few inches of headroom. I say that is a horrible way to gain headroom. 

The repair would be a whole lot easier to accomplish and stronger if you removed the nearby interior moldings, built some proper bracing, and then rebuilt a new interior.

it would be especially wise to design that new interior section sonur enhances the overall structure, tie in between the keel and the rest of the boat, and anything else you can imagine as better. 

 

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46 minutes ago, 6924 said:

gotta agree ( in theory ) with Gouv. 

The sawzall can be a good friend in this situation.  

 

They cut the whole area around the keel out of the J35 I race on and re-built it better than new. It will never go anywhere now.

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I had my Santana 35 keel stringers rebuilt - 1st the keel bolts were replaced with larger ones.

While that was being done - all the delamanated glass was ground out - we went from center line  to the sides where the floor board meet the bunks.  New glass epoxy was put down.

Once that was done 5 inch wide solid glass epoxy ribs were put in where the keel bolts were with stainless backing plates.

Remember the area behind the keel - that will be toast  I went down to single ply of glass there it was that bad - built it up to orginal thickness + 1 layer of glass and epoxy - put in a ~4" by 2" rib to seperate floor by ladder from keel area.  You need to put in 1/2 drains from step area to keel area.  

 

I have no pictures - boat was sold - 

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No it is not.

lucky dog has a good description of the repair. I would like to find a copy of the drawings for this repair. It was very common for a grounding to cause this type of damage. The description I have seen built up an extrrior saddle to spread the keel induced stress over a larger area. This along with added stringers and thickening the hull thickness at the aft most keel bolt.

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2 hours ago, Mooneyman said:

The description I have seen built up an extrrior saddle to spread the keel induced stress over a larger area. 

That's what some not to be named repair yard up here did with several SJ24's back in the late 70's. Should have done as described in article in link I posted.

What you are proposing is adding a "sock" over the area of the stubby. Lame ass fix if there ever was one. Good luck, eh?

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Lee, thank you for your input. I will post keel pictures later today. The problem with what you are recommending is not applicable to my keel. The structure of the S35 keel bears little similarity to the keel repair you are describing. My "lame ass"  fix would be in addition to the fix recommended by Lucky Dog. Adding stringers to the aft end of the keel + adding a saddle to spread the keel load. I do appreciate any qualified input from the community. in any case the nice thing about glass is it can always be ripped and redone :).

 

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You may want to read this thread about what a keel repair / strengthing involves. Very comprehensive with photos.

 

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18 hours ago, Mooneyman said:

Lee, thank you for your input. :).

You are welcome and excuse my unqualified if not emphatic advice. :o

I still contend that if your bilge resembles Spacklers you could do similar to what I posted but it'd prolly be a lot more work.

And I still think layering the outside is dumb just ruins the hull whatchamacallit.

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2 hours ago, HILLY said:

You may want to read this thread about what a keel repair / strengthing involves. Very comprehensive with photos.

I just read that entire thread and my impression is that the build-quality of that Wauquiez is quite good. Sure, there's a lot of crappy bog all over, just like every other production boat, but to have held together that well after the grounding, the shitty repair, and so much use is a testament to the basic soundness of the build.

 

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I had very similar issue with my Santana 35. Dropped keel, but left keel bolts thru hull, in position. Important to brave keel before doing this. Rebuilt mast step and all stringers from mast step to companionway. All it takes is time and materials. Those are great boats, and worth the fix.

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Hello,

Just brought Santana 35 few month ago, like the boat and wanna keep she but she have few issues.  Looks like she had some keel support structure fix and looks like it was not done well. Because of constant leak trough the mast she always had some fresh water around a keel support structure and I believe it with the bad quality job made delamination. 

So it's delaminated. I can even tie and just take off glass. Keelbolts steel looks ok but washers are completely rusty. Ill need to haul she out for bottom paint and just wanted to fix this issue since she will dry BTW. Because of job I can only work at the weekends, so according to this asking for advice.

1. Which boatyard best/cheapest for DIY long term projects  in SF Bay + area. I heard like Napa Marina is ok for that but not sure. 

2. What kind of support structure to apply --- so I can do it from plywood then fiberglass and cut out all the stuff inside and put it in for example. Or can just sand out all the bad glass and apply layers of roving and epoxy over existing one. Which is better? Even it possible to use some stainless plates over the existing structure same like I have on one of keelbolts. I believe it's not original. 

 

The photos are over there https://photos.app.goo.gl/vCSYqYHqozX2Wmcm1

 

Thank you for advice.

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On 1/30/2018 at 3:10 PM, kograt said:

Hello,

Just brought Santana 35 few month ago, like the boat and wanna keep she but she have few issues.  Looks like she had some keel support structure fix and looks like it was not done well. Because of constant leak trough the mast she always had some fresh water around a keel support structure and I believe it with the bad quality job made delamination. 

So it's delaminated. I can even tie and just take off glass. Keelbolts steel looks ok but washers are completely rusty. Ill need to haul she out for bottom paint and just wanted to fix this issue since she will dry BTW. Because of job I can only work at the weekends, so according to this asking for advice.

1. Which boatyard best/cheapest for DIY long term projects  in SF Bay + area. I heard like Napa Marina is ok for that but not sure. 

2. What kind of support structure to apply --- so I can do it from plywood then fiberglass and cut out all the stuff inside and put it in for example. Or can just sand out all the bad glass and apply layers of roving and epoxy over existing one. Which is better? Even it possible to use some stainless plates over the existing structure same like I have on one of keelbolts. I believe it's not original. 

 

The photos are over there https://photos.app.goo.gl/vCSYqYHqozX2Wmcm1

 

Thank you for advice.

I'm in MIchigan, so have no knowledge of any boatyards in your area to recommend.

If you're going to fix yourself, I would recommend using Hydrotek marine plywood to build mast step substrate. 1708 biaxial foberglass cloth, and West Systems epoxy to encapsulate. If you're just doing the mast step, it's a relatively straight forward job. If you are replacing the stringers/keel support grid, that is a different story. You might want to consider having a surveyor assess before you rip all that out.

If you PM your phone number, I'd be happy to call and explain further.

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