• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

The rules work both ways. Score the guy after the results, and anyone in the fleet can file Redress pointing out the rules that wouldn't let the competitor be scored.

As you wrote, the rules are the rules.  But the rules can't be bent to save a situation, unless you're ready for the rules be used to undo the situation.  This is more of the reason why the leaders won't bend, because they'll spend twice the time undoing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep - what Glenn said.

 

one question is why did the PRO not notice the wrong certificate and tell the competitor. Unless it was a last min deal.  In all the races I have enrolled in this year - I get a e-mail welcoming me and telling me what I rate along with a scratch sheet.  We even had a discussion with PRO as they had the wrong rating; which was fixed. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strangest part of the story to me is that there IS a separate San Diego rating certificate - it was in Southern California when I last saw it ! 

The first thing every race committee is supposed to "get" is that we are ALL doing this for the FUN of it.   When the Fun stops,  the sport Dies.   Nice work,  boys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so glad to know that rules are rules even in a series with the name "Beer Can" in it. Yet another reason to avoid the northern suburbs of Tijuana Mexico

and we wonder why Key West Race Week is gone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am 100% with Shark and _Scott_ on this one. Not 90%. 100%. CRA is 100% in the wrong, for those reasons. Any idiot can understand those reasons. Anyone who has been involved in the sport long enough to be a PRO must understand viscerally those reasons.

Hiding behind "rules is rules" for Beer Can racing is lame. Lame. Stay off my boat lame. Stay out of my fleet lame. Stay home and watch TV lame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That "First place" award must feel pretty empty when you only have it because the fast guys have a certificate from the next zip code over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, _Scott_ said:

Obviously the organizers forgot the first commandment of beer can racing. 

https://www.latitude38.com/misc/10Command-opt.pdf

To the organizers, way to make a sport that struggles with accessibility more inaccessible.  

Absolutely right.  In the "old days" there were no race committee, no classes, no scoring, no trophies. It was an excuse to go sailing on Wednesday night in San Diego Bay. No-one cared if you had any certificate...we raced 470's against MORA boats, latest IOR designs and Stars...Get a grip, it's a beer can race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a tale as old as time.  The should have a class for lame can racing, which you could throw beer cans at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's more troubling that winning a beer can race seems so important here.  Who the fuck cares?  Join PHRF SD for the rest of the summer and be done with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

It's more troubling that winning a beer can race seems so important here.  Who the fuck cares?  Join PHRF SD for the rest of the summer and be done with it. 

From what I read, they did join phrf sd, after the fact. However, the rc didn't see fit to make their registration retroactive. 

Its really all about the timing of that certificate and truth be told, as the rule is written, there's no real leg to stand on. 

Sure the rc is being hard but there are rules, once you start picking which ones are enforced and which ones aren't it becomes anarchy. 

The rules are fair, sometimes they're on your side, sometimes not, but crying about being on the wrong side only makes you come off as a spoiled crybaby. 

Oh wait, the ed wrote the piece right? 

There ya go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was the second place boat which was awarded first due to this situation, I would give the trophy/prize to Howe. Hopefully, the third place boat would do the same for me and so on. If that doesn't work, then I as the second place boat would withdraw rather than accept first place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Sail2,  that is what I meant - if given the 1st place loot,  could you REALLY look at it with any pride knowing that it was 'won' on an utterly crap technicality ?  

It would sit on the mantle and MOCK whoever beheld it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

The strangest part of the story to me is that there IS a separate San Diego rating certificate - it was in Southern California when I last saw it ! 

 

For those who don’t know –

PHRF SoCal spans the area from Santa Barbara to and including Oceanside, a distance of several hundred miles.

Within that region there are PH sub-areas, all of which rate individual boat types according to how that boat performs given their locally prevailing conditions

While most of the ratings are similar there can be significant differences between areas. For example, nobody in SoCal would suggest that Santa Barbara has the same conditions as Dana Point and that boats should have the same ratings in both areas.

The same intelligent application of area variables also applies to San Diego. PHRFSD is also area G within PHRF SoCal. PHRFSD differs from the other regions only in that they also issue their own individual rating certificate.

In fact the ratings between SoCal and San Diego are often very similar but are often also somewhat different and nobody can argue that PHRFSD will not rate boats for events within their own region more accurately than any other rating agency.

This is why CRA requires a local certificate: not because they are being hard assed but purely because they wish to ensure the most fair local area rating assignments possible.

In this case the greater regional rating is the same as it is in San Diego so there is no reason why CRA could not retroactively accept a PHRFSD certificate.

Back in the day when I was issuing certificates I would often issue certificates the day of and sometimes the afternoon of the individual beer can races. In other words It’s not hard to get a certificate and everyone should go ahead and do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 or 4 years ago a buddy of mine and I entered his utterly unprepared  daysailor in some CRA race PHRF D class or something. We had plenty of beers while 'racing' , crossed first in our class a horizon ahead of the rest of the class while openly drinking beer. 

The RC hails us 'What's your PHRF rating ?' 

Response 'Maybe 172 or 180' 

RC 'with spin?'

Response 'don't know, give us whatever rating you want' ( we've now circled the RC boat a couple of times )

RC ( getting perturbed ) 'did you register for the series ?'

Response 'yeah, we sailed in the Valentine's day Regatta'

RC (furious) 'there wasn't a Valentine's day regatta'

Response 'we can clear this up at the bar'

needless to say the stuffed shirts of the RC didn't score us at all.  My buddy who had been elated at the sheer joy of racing his boat, felt dejected and had never raced again. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a case of the RC thinking they matter more than the customers.

anyone who says the rules are rules and this boat shouldn't be scored needs to get off their soapbox and go get a job as a mall cop, because that's about how bright you are.

Is anyone in this class complaining because a boat had a rating certificate that accurately reflected the boats rating, but the money for the certificate was paid to a different rating entity a few miles away?

Some people in this sport are in serious need of an enema.

Mall Cop. I think I'm going to get stickers made up with that, and slap it on people who work to make it harder to get more people on the race course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 parts to this.  The first part eas the rum i just poured. The second is the Coke.  And then sailinh.  Wait, what?

 

No matter.  Just sail.  The reason why sailboat racing ia dying is because everyone, from racer to race committee treats a beer can series like its a fuckimg workd championship.  Just race and ley them race.   If the Rc are being dicks, move on.  If the racers are being dicks, move on.  So much fucking drama over a god damn beer can race!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are the Howe's views of the situation. Do they really give a tinkers cuss about winning a beer can race?

 

FFS every boat out there knows who won. Pickle dishes end up in a box in the shed anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i thought this was about "fisting" .......you know,  like a porn thread......this is boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, USA190520 said:

From what I read, they did join phrf sd, after the fact. However, the rc didn't see fit to make their registration retroactive. 

Its really all about the timing of that certificate and truth be told, as the rule is written, there's no real leg to stand on. 

Sure the rc is being hard but there are rules, once you start picking which ones are enforced and which ones aren't it becomes anarchy. 

The rules are fair, sometimes they're on your side, sometimes not, but crying about being on the wrong side only makes you come off as a spoiled crybaby. 

Oh wait, the ed wrote the piece right? 

There ya go.

seriously? it's regimented twats like you who think everything should be by the book. nice job, mr. flexibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Editor said:

seriously? it's regimented twats like you who think everything should be by the book. nice job, mr. flexibility.

Oh so rules only apply when they're convenient? Wtf?

i think the rc could have given some slack seeing how the m32 obtained a new cert quickly but guess what? Rules...

I was tossed from a regatta with a brand new boat fur not having a measurement  cert done... boat was 100% legal just no paper to prove it, did it suck? Yep... was the protest kinda lame? Yep did I go online and whine? Nope- I got a cert and despite being dsq'd from that regatta we went on to win the series and a berth in a worlds..

whining only makes you look like a  whiner. 

Carry on 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who the fuck is whining? I am simply pointing out that the punishment does not fit the crime. you don't agree with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Editor said:

who the fuck is whining? I am simply pointing out that the punishment does not fit the crime. you don't agree with that?

No crime.

Poor form for the RC if the boat is not a known entity,

Was the requirement for the rating body specified in the NoR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Editor said:

who the fuck is whining? I am simply pointing out that the punishment does not fit the crime. you don't agree with that?

It's a bit harsh, I'll give you that.

but it's in the rules, everyone else followed them... just saying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's strangely ironic to say that this is why sailing is dying. From where I'm sitting, the reason sailing is dying seems to be that something like beer can racing is being taken so seriously. It's teams of pros and famous sailors on brand-new sailing machines racing for what, exactly? Some shitty trophy proclaiming them to have the biggest dick of all the seagoing dickheads? Where's the $10,000 prize? The 72 virgins?

 

For that matter, if you're a team of professionals headed by a famous captain on a brand-new boat, how can your shit not be put together enough that you don't have the right papers? It was clearly stated in the rules and they agreed to the rules as written. Rule 1.3 states that you need a San Diego PHRF certificate to race. What kind of professionals put so much time, money, and effort into a sailing team and don't bother to read the rules?

 

Harsh? Yes. Obnoxious? Yes. Worthy of so much whining? Hell no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment from a new guy here, my lady has a Catalina 27, so I thought it would be a nice surprise to sign up for Cortex Racing Assoc.  and get a PHRF cert. . I wanted to do the Mission Bay to Oceanside and Oceanside to San Diego races. I registered and mailed in my new So-Cal PHRF cert.  for the RC to have on file. I asked the race management about the relationship between SoCal and San Diego PHRF and never got an answer. I tried to get everything legal, but being a newbie to racing here could still use some help.When we finished in Oceanside the RC said they didn't have anything on us. I started the registration process for both races weeks ago. It shouldn't be this hard to get legal. Should I also sign up for San Diego PHRF certificate? Do I need a So-cal one to race in Oceanside events?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not surprised that "race management" did not answer your question. They probably aren't really exactly certain of the relationship between SoCal and PHRFSD themselves. Heck, even some of the members of the boards aren't exactly certain of what the exact relationship is. Suffice it to say that both are there to help you participate.

If you are going to be sailing primarily in the Oceanside/Dana Point area and you will probably want a SoCal certificate. If you are going to be sailing primarily in the Mission Bay/San Diego area then you will probably want a PHRFSD certificate.

Always look in the NOR/Sis for their requirements. Some races, like the Border Run, accept certificates from either SoCal or PHRFSD because their constituency is spread between both areas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this