Savage2288

Brand new and totally ignorant

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

No no, "hatching" is what happens a while after you bed them

As for boats, I have had boats on trailers most of my life (often a "big" boat in the water at the same time, like now) and it's nice to have it where all your tools are handy, and you can put it under a tarp if not inside the garage.

FB- Doug

yep, my next purchase is a nice big tarp so I can pull all the windows out and figure out what I want to replace them with after i make sure the walls are good and dry

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
On 5/27/2018 at 1:28 PM, Ishmael said:

Oh, that's what you call your concubines now?

Probably grinds his self tailing wenches too.

We do that electrically.

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8 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

yep, my next purchase is a nice big tarp so I can pull all the windows out and figure out what I want to replace them with after i make sure the walls are good and dry

I had to do that and found that some half inch PVC and tape can be used to make a frame that holds the tarp away from the boat so you can move around and makes it shed rain better and chafe less.

I looked like this:

F27-tarp-support.jpg

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Four out of five done. It's the mahogany trim inside that was really the big pain in the ass, as the finish was baked after 20 years and they all needed to be sanded and made pretty again.

Some of my butyl tape has oozed a bit more since I initially put these down, so they will need a re-trimming in a few days.

hatches.thumb.jpg.df68d4092072f7ee5a72e1d4267f693f.jpg

hatches2.thumb.jpg.2dec633ac235dd19c2eb5460161cdcb7.jpg

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Very nice.

Looks like you need to break out the plug cutter though.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Very nice.

Looks like you need to break out the plug cutter though.

You have no idea. I only have about 350-400 teak bungs for when I start that project; I think I need more than twice that.

The shiny new hatches really highlight the deplorable state of the teak.

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Damn, those hatches are beautiful. Hopefully as strong as they look.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Damn, those hatches are beautiful. Hopefully as strong as they look.

They're pretty beefy.

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8 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

You have no idea. I only have about 350-400 teak bungs for when I start that project; I think I need more than twice that.

The shiny new hatches really highlight the deplorable state of the teak.

even with the "deplorable state of the teak" she looks better than my Fight Song on her best day lol those hatches look awesome!

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

They look good - nice clean installation.    What's in the jars?

AP Bio science experiment.

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34 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

AP Bio science experiment.

main.jpg

Hope it doesn't go amok.

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HAPPY FIGHT SONG DAY!!! I bought my sailboat a year ago yesterday!

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also, I finally figured out a way to fix that nasty chainplate damage and it worked really well!

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5 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

also, I finally figured out a way to fix that nasty chainplate damage and it worked really well!

Photo?

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boy.....I hope that works....the post looks really weird

 

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I used 1/5 of a gator patch and the fixed side is rock solid now with no give in it at all and it took about 10 minutes start to finish. 1 gator patch costs $20.95 at Bass Pro or online.

 

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and the funk on the deck behind the chainplates is dust that washed down off the tarp during the rain this morning.

 

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7 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

I used 1/5 of a gator patch and the fixed side is rock solid now with no give in it at all and it took about 10 minutes start to finish. 1 gator patch costs $20.95 at Bass Pro or online.

 

Interesting product. I hadn't heard of it. A UV curing moldable epoxy patch.

I swiped one of your images for a better look.

SavageGatorPatch.jpg

While it's an interesting product, I'm not so sure about this application. On a small boat I guess it's OK.

They tout the "prep, peel, stick" design of the product.

Gotta be honest here. The surrounding area doesn't look like there was a whole lot of prep. Sanding and then wiping with acetone or something should have had more effect on the surrounding area.

But it's a small boat and it might work OK anyway. And if it doesn't, there's always the grinder and the next attempt.

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I agree. I think this stuff has potential but next time, sand a little and wipe with acetone. It'll stick better.

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Doesn't look bad, but I'm doubtful that stuff is going to maintain a seal around the chainplate.

Labor saving miracle goo always involves prep. Prep is always the hardest part of the work, and prep is what drives the result...... for good or for bad.

I never heard of this stuff either, so I will go looking for it. Always nice to add something to the bag o' tricks

Thanks Savage!

FB- Doug

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I don't think it'll maintain a seal but it'll provide structure. She can bed the gap in butyl tape. That'll provide a seal.

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i did sand and wipe. i just only did the area where the patch had to stick. i used these to fix the trailer damage on the bow last year. is butyl tape better for thr gap than silicone? i wasnt sure @Ajax

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i think maybe it just doesnt show much because the sanding block was the same width as the patch. the package says "lightly sand" so i didnt sand off the paint or anything...i just buffed it.

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i keep looking at it wondering why eveybody thinks its not sticking...... its stuck down well on all the edges....maybe because the patch is so thick that it doesnt taper at the edges? or because it wrinkles where its folded? so in the pictures it looks like a bad application as opposed to regular fiberglass repair. these patches are meant for like fixing kayaks on the fly when they get damaged on rocks and stuff so minimal prep is the goal.

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Ok, you sanded. That's good.  It's sticking *now*. We were just worried that it might pop off later. You sanded and wiped, so there should be some "tooth" for the patch to adhere to, and hopefully you'll be fine.

Butyl tape is better and less messy to work with than silicone in a tube. You just cut a piece off of the roll, roll it into a snake between your palms, and then work it into the gap. It never dries out. Most boats have a chainplate cover that screws down on top of the deck to cover the gap and the butyl bedding. Yours doesn't seem to, but no big deal.

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oh I was worried yall were telling me its not going to hold in the near future. yeah the chainplates come up through a curved place in the deck and i dont think it ever had any sort of cover for the area.....i dont know why they thought it was a good idea to do it that way. im sure it was fine until the custom pilot house was added and the angles of the stays changed =/ Im glad you told me about the butyl tape because i was planning to use silicone and i didnt think it was going to turn out well

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12 minutes ago, Savage2288 said:

oh I was worried yall were telling me its not going to hold in the near future. yeah the chainplates come up through a curved place in the deck and i dont think it ever had any sort of cover for the area.....i dont know why they thought it was a good idea to do it that way. im sure it was fine until the custom pilot house was added and the angles of the stays changed =/ Im glad you told me about the butyl tape because i was planning to use silicone and i didnt think it was going to turn out well

You were right. It would not turn out well

Silicone caulk is great for many things but for some reason it is poison on boats. Stops the leak for a short while but then always starts letting water thru and then is difficult to clean off and leaves a residue behind such that no other caulk will ever stick/seal. Personally I like the classic 3M 5200 but it does not hold up to UV well, they make a version called 3M 4000 that is UV resistant. Pricey though, compared to hardware store silicone caulk.

Butyl tape might be less expensive and still effective, personally I have not had good results with it.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Savage2288 said:

i think maybe it just doesnt show much because the sanding block was the same width as the patch. the package says "lightly sand" so i didnt sand off the paint or anything...i just buffed it.

If you didn't sand off the paint then your patch is stuck to paint, not boat. Your structural bond is only as good as that paint bond.

I guess we'll see how long it lasts.

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

You were right. It would not turn out well

Silicone caulk is great for many things but for some reason it is poison on boats. Stops the leak for a short while but then always starts letting water thru and then is difficult to clean off and leaves a residue behind such that no other caulk will ever stick/seal. Personally I like the classic 3M 5200 but it does not hold up to UV well, they make a version called 3M 4000 that is UV resistant. Pricey though, compared to hardware store silicone caulk.

Butyl tape might be less expensive and still effective, personally I have not had good results with it.

FB- Doug

Butyl works best when sandwiched between two mechanically fastened pieces. I wouldn't stuff it into an open crack like those chainplate openings and expect it to work for long. However, a decent redneck fix might be to stuff the butyl into the crack and leave a generous bead of it around the chainplate above the existing patch, then use epoxy putty to form a "chainplate cover" on top of the existing patch to keep the butyl in place and protected from UV. 

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13 minutes ago, IStream said:
26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

...     ...     ...

Silicone caulk is great for many things but for some reason it is poison on boats. Stops the leak for a short while but then always starts letting water thru and then is difficult to clean off and leaves a residue behind such that no other caulk will ever stick/seal. Personally I like the classic 3M 5200 but it does not hold up to UV well, they make a version called 3M 4000 that is UV resistant. Pricey though, compared to hardware store silicone caulk.

Butyl tape might be less expensive and still effective, personally I have not had good results with it.

Butyl works best when sandwiched between two mechanically fastened pieces. I wouldn't stuff it into an open crack like those chainplate openings and expect it to work for long. However, a decent redneck fix might be to stuff the butyl into the crack and leave a generous bead of it around the chainplate above the existing patch, then use epoxy putty to form a "chainplate cover" on top of the existing patch to keep the butyl in place and protected from UV. 

Maybe stuff a roll of it in the gap and then put on one of these

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoN-ZhZZpyjfNyhj88T

Unfortunately, I've found out the hard way that simply cutting out the middle man and stuffing $20 bills into the gap does not work. My wife rejected the suggestion that we try $50 bills instead.

FB- Doug

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16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

If you didn't sand off the paint then your patch is stuck to paint, not boat. Your structural bond is only as good as that paint bond.

I guess we'll see how long it lasts.

Would your answer be different if her topside is original gelcoat, not a repaint when the pilot house was added?    Low cost, low hassle, no fumes.   I can see real advantages over laying down new mat and epoxy when there are no plans for a repaint or desire for showroom finish.      It reminds me of the UV cured dental polymers used in teeth.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Lark said:

Would your answer be different if her topside is original gelcoat, not a repaint when the pilot house was added?    Low cost, low hassle, no fumes.   I can see real advantages over laying down new mat and epoxy when there are no plans for a repaint or desire for showroom finish.      It reminds me of the UV cured dental polymers used in teeth.

 

 

If to original gelcoat, it would probably be OK. I like to give a lot of tooth on bonding surfaces, but a light sanding is preferable to no sanding.

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Maybe stuff a roll of it in the gap and then put on one of these

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoN-ZhZZpyjfNyhj88T

Unfortunately, I've found out the hard way that simply cutting out the middle man and stuffing $20 bills into the gap does not work. My wife rejected the suggestion that we try $50 bills instead.

FB- Doug

the area is rounded....I have not found one of these that will sit on it without flopping back and fourth and catching my toes as I walk to the front deck 

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8 hours ago, Lark said:

Would your answer be different if her topside is original gelcoat, not a repaint when the pilot house was added?    Low cost, low hassle, no fumes.   I can see real advantages over laying down new mat and epoxy when there are no plans for a repaint or desire for showroom finish.      It reminds me of the UV cured dental polymers used in teeth.

 

 

it has actually been refiberglassed multiple times but the force of the chainplate flexing busted it each time (I asked the PO about that) so i wanted to try something that would be hard and have no give to it so that the chainplate couldnt damage it again

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Were the chainplates were loose and moving, or just a gap where they came thru the deck?

not loose. there is meant to be a gap where they come through the deck but they flex and bust the fiberglass when the stays are attached.

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

If you didn't sand off the paint then your patch is stuck to paint, not boat. Your structural bond is only as good as that paint bond.

I guess we'll see how long it lasts.

I did it the same way we fixed the bow (below the water line) a year ago and that patch is fine. the only reason that one looked more scuffed is because at first I tried to sand it down even with the hull and then decided that was a mistake because the patch is too thick.

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Hmm... I think we need to find the root cause of why the chainplate moves and fix that.

According to your photos, the chainplate appears to rock forward and aft. How is it attached inside of the boat? Is it bolted through the hull or is it attached to a fiberglass "knee"?  Can you give us a picture of that?

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@Ajax yall have already investigated all of this. it does not rock forward and aft. the only movent is flexation.

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Ok. Sorry, it's been awhile and we're old.

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

And grumpy, don't forget grumpy

FB- Doug

And sleepy. Hell, with allergy season, we've probably got most of the 7 dwarfs on board.

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lol well I just always appreciate yall taking time out from your gamut of emotions to chat with me about my sailboat.

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2 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

lol well I just always appreciate yall taking time out from your gamut of emotions to chat with me about my sailboat.

It's not a time out, it's an amplification.

I have a small gamut, so it's no big deal. Some people get all buzzy and start talking in funny languages.

Did I mention my trained otter?

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:
4 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

lol well I just always appreciate yall taking time out from your gamut of emotions to chat with me about my sailboat.

It's not a time out, it's an amplification.

I have a small gamut, so it's no big deal. Some people get all buzzy and start talking in funny languages.

Did I mention my trained otter?

I think you should let your otter out of the amplifier. He could get hurt in there. Probably makes the guitar sound funny too

-DSK

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12 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think you should let your otter out of the amplifier. He could get hurt in there. Probably makes the guitar sound funny too

-DSK

Makes a hell of an echo. Bit of a squeal on the high end, but we can fix that with some Bondo.

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:

It's not a time out, it's an amplification.

I have a small gamut, so it's no big deal. Some people get all buzzy and start talking in funny languages.

Did I mention my trained otter?

I don't want to know anything about your 'trained otter'.

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On 6/6/2018 at 3:06 PM, Savage2288 said:

i did sand and wipe. i just only did the area where the patch had to stick. i used these to fix the trailer damage on the bow last year. is butyl tape better for thr gap than silicone? i wasnt sure @Ajax

Silicone sucks on many levels, and once you put it on there, it's near impossible to ever get the surface clean and prepped properly without a ton of work.

Butyl tape is what I bedded all those shiny new hatches with. It's good stuff.

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On 6/7/2018 at 1:20 AM, Savage2288 said:

it has actually been refiberglassed multiple times but the force of the chainplate flexing busted it each time (I asked the PO about that) so i wanted to try something that would be hard and have no give to it so that the chainplate couldnt damage it again

"Hard" and "no give" are often bad things when it comes to boats. Your boat is always subject to much motion, banging, shaking, flexing,  and vibration. Things like butyl tape an sealants that stay springy when cured instead of getting rock hard tend to last longer than stiff things that then break.

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27 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

"Hard" and "no give" are often bad things when it comes to boats. Your boat is always subject to much motion, banging, shaking, flexing,  and vibration. Things like butyl tape an sealants that stay springy when cured instead of getting rock hard tend to last longer than stiff things that then break.

thats why i left a decent gap all the way around that needs to be filled with something

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

"Hard" and "no give" are often bad things when it comes to boats. Your boat is always subject to much motion, banging, shaking, flexing,  and vibration. Things like butyl tape an sealants that stay springy when cured instead of getting rock hard tend to last longer than stiff things that then break.

An interesting thought.  I know old boats get ‘soft’.   I’ve listened to big boat types mock other big boats that come pre softened, like Bendy toys and Mac’s 65 footer.    How much does a boat really flex?  a fraction of a mm / meter between waves, changing tension on standing rigging and winches with use, freeze thaws, vibration from motors, and even sagging or hogging?   Rich Wilson graphically describes the motion in the bunk of Great American.    Like the necessary working of a wooden ship, give avoids cracks, especially if a long service life is desired.    Most likely Will spent months studying “To give or not to give.   That is the question.”   It would be fun to rig a laser measurer to the chainplates of various boats.   

 

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So another project I need to accomplish on Fight song is she needs pilot house windows that open because its hot as the devil's armpit in Louisiana and I want to be able to steer from inside the pilot house. I had thought to get some glass opening and closing shed windows with screens in them but  that would require a lot of cutting into her that I dont want to do. I recently hit upon the idea of "Wiley Windows"  which apparently wooden boat builders have been using for years (Wiley Ports). Since her windows have been leaking anyway I decided to go ahead and remove the fixed plexi windows and look at what is going on currently. HOLY DID IT THE HARD WAY BATMAN. The PO who built the pilot house literally put the plexi in the hole, screwed down some boards to hold it in place, AND THEN SLATHERED EVERYTHING WITH GORILLA GLUE including filling the tops of the screw holes of the boards he used to hold the plexi in place. But there was so much glue I couldnt see that until I put my fist through the plexi and was wondering why it broke off across the bottom instead of popping out.  I sure do love my little boat. Is it crazy that this seems like a horrendous amount of work and I am still really excited about it??

 

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Also, just as a general information for those of you who dont already know....I'm poor white trash so all of this stuff takes me longer than it should and I look for solutions that can be accomplished as cheaply as possible while still solving the problem. I also think that "functional" is pretty so when I'm done with her I will probably think she is beautiful while everyone else is horrified with what she looks like... Its going to break my heart when she eventually ends up on the ugly boat appreciation thread.....I know its coming though.

 

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And I actually have a file saved on my computer of all the good advice yall have offered me in this thread.

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Given where you are, do you actually need the windows at all?   Just finish off the openings and you have a bimini - of sorts - to provide shade and let the breeze blow through.  

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1 hour ago, CruiserJim said:

Given where you are, do you actually need the windows at all?   Just finish off the openings and you have a bimini - of sorts - to provide shade and let the breeze blow through.  

i thought about it but we get flooding rains during hurricane season

 

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HA! well I came over to my dad's house to talk with him about it and he's like "why dont you just put some channels in it and make a plexiglass window that opens and closes like a house window and put a screen in it? " so now I kinda feel like a dummy.

 

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19 minutes ago, Savage2288 said:

HA! well I came over to my dad's house to talk with him about it and he's like "why dont you just put some channels in it and make a plexiglass window that opens and closes like a house window and put a screen in it? " so now I kinda feel like a dummy.

 

Tell him to get off his ass and make it for you. That's what fathers are for.

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7 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Tell him to get off his ass and make it for you. That's what fathers are for.

DONT BOSS MY DADDY LIKE THAT. Plus thats why daddies marry their daughters off to husbands.

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but thats actually what he's talking about doing anyway is putting them in for me.

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4 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

Its going to break my heart when she eventually ends up on the ugly boat appreciation thread.....I know its coming though.

It's funny how people take nomination for Admiration by the Society the wrong way. I nominated the Cowmaran, one of my favorite boats. The builder wasn't amused. But, well, I found it Admirable and Ugly!

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6 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

It's funny how people take nomination for Admiration by the Society the wrong way. I nominated the Cowmaran, one of my favorite boats. The builder wasn't amused. But, well, I found it Admirable and Ugly!

I could be misunderstanding what the thread is for. I was really impressed with a bunch of the boats I have seen on it but then people seem to be making fun of them....I usually just dont comment on that thread because I feel like I'll just end up showing my ignorance.

 

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I LOVE anything with leeboards.

 

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sounds like the plan has changed with the windows AGAIN. we are back to the plan of me buying some cheap but pretty shed windows and daddy helping me put them in so they look nice. that will give me tempered glass windows that open and have screens.

 

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for anyone that is interested (yall are really just so sweet for the interest yall have shown) these are the windows I'm talking about https://shed-parts.com/collections/shed-windows/products/14-x-21-shed-window

 

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8 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

I could be misunderstanding what the thread is for. I was really impressed with a bunch of the boats I have seen on it but then people seem to be making fun of them....I usually just dont comment on that thread because I feel like I'll just end up showing my ignorance.

 

Some folks are having fun putting boats in there that are merely Ugly but not particularly Admirable and that's not really the guiding purpose of the thread.

13 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

I also think that "functional" is pretty

That's what the thread is about, sort of. Work boats tend to be very functional and very ugly and are disqualified from Admiration for that reason. The "function" of pleasure boats is to make us happy. If your boat does that, it's Admirable. If it does it while being Ugly, it's Ugly and Admirable and a candidate for the Society.

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7 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

for anyone that is interested (yall are really just so sweet for the interest yall have shown) these are the windows I'm talking about https://shed-parts.com/collections/shed-windows/products/14-x-21-shed-window

 

Those windows should work, but bed the frames with butyl tape so that they don't leak around the frames.

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AHAHAHAHAHA posted this back when someone accused me of being a sock puppet.....it showed back up on facebook today and made me laugh. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1469597673083965&id=100001012386478

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On 6/12/2018 at 4:38 PM, Savage2288 said:

So another project I need to accomplish on Fight song is she needs pilot house windows that open because its hot as the devil's armpit in Louisiana and I want to be able to steer from inside the pilot house. I had thought to get some glass opening and closing shed windows with screens in them but  that would require a lot of cutting into her that I dont want to do. I recently hit upon the idea of "Wiley Windows"  which apparently wooden boat builders have been using for years (Wiley Ports). Since her windows have been leaking anyway I decided to go ahead and remove the fixed plexi windows and look at what is going on currently. HOLY DID IT THE HARD WAY BATMAN. The PO who built the pilot house literally put the plexi in the hole, screwed down some boards to hold it in place, AND THEN SLATHERED EVERYTHING WITH GORILLA GLUE including filling the tops of the screw holes of the boards he used to hold the plexi in place. But there was so much glue I couldnt see that until I put my fist through the plexi and was wondering why it broke off across the bottom instead of popping out.  I sure do love my little boat. Is it crazy that this seems like a horrendous amount of work and I am still really excited about it??

 

The fact that you come up with Wiley ports just a few days ago is a remarkable coincidence. Without seeing your tyhread I mentioned them just the other daty in another thread.

They are clever things for enabling ventilation while also automatically closing on the leeward side (not tight, but closed). But you aren't going to get a big breeze through them.

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I see you mentioned tempered. That's important. There should never be any annealed glass anywhere on a boat that is not laminated. Just like a car.

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1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

I see you mentioned tempered. That's important. There should never be any annealed glass anywhere on a boat that is not laminated. Just like a car.

yeah my dad pointed that out too

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Lending moral support. When this old glass monkey turned naval architect wants to go use his boat rather than fix it all summer, he just gets it done. Haha.
41916329255_46c41ec0eb_h.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Lending moral support. When this old glass monkey turned naval architect wants to go use his boat rather than fix it all summer, he just gets it done. Haha.
41916329255_46c41ec0eb_h.jpg

 

A couple of epileptic gerbils with sandpaper glued to them could do the same or better.

Very difficult to find these days, there's been a run on them.

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that video makes me itchy

 

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17 hours ago, Ishmael said:

A couple of epileptic gerbils with sandpaper glued to them could do the same or better.

Very difficult to find these days, there's been a run on them.

I paid the gerbils and sent them home for the night. Now I need to hire some skunks to do the finish--they don't mind the smell.

28968358008_8b9cdfb041_h.jpg

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looks good now though! whats the going rate for those skunks?

 

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3 hours ago, Savage2288 said:

looks good now though! whats the going rate for those skunks?

 

About 70 mph.

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I'm not sure which of yall gave me this link...or if I just found it at random in the Ugly Boat Admiration Society thread but THIS is some funny stuff here

 

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hey yall, how do I add a tagline at the end of my posts??? Most everyone else has one but I dont understand where you set it at.

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Nevermind. I figured it out.

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