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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
parclan

Diesel has me stumped....

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I posted before about my possible head gasket issue on my Bene First 375's Volvo penta 2003b. Turns out I only had to have the injectors rebuilt, and the old gal purrs just fine now. Sort of....

So after the mechanic reinstalled the rebuilt injectors, and adjusted the idle speed up a bit, he left a crush ring at the last injector and we had a massive exhaust leak inside the boat. Took me while to find it, and after using all the bad words when replacing a section of exhaust hose, discovered the exhaust spewing out at the injector. He fixed that.

 I know have lower rpm/ top speed - down from 6.7'sh to topping out at 4.9 - 5 kts and at lower top end rpm than before. My tach has never worked well so I have to go by sound and vibration. Mechanic suggested my prop could be an issue... So 2 diver fees later confirms my prop is slick and opens/closes just fine. Mechanic came back and readjusted the throttle back to where it was in the beginning. Still best speed at 4.9kts and at lower top end rpm than before.

Boat bottom is clean - diver every 90 days. Prop is fine. Oil is fine. Transmission fluid is fine. Exhaust is clean with good water flow. Engine runs smooth but has lost power/boat speed. Just for grins I flushed the raw water cooling side with barnacle buster and its fine. And the water pump is a year old and I checked the impeller - looks like new.

What could it be?

 

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Could be lots of things. Mixing elbow, air intake obstruction (from right at the engine all the way to the outside of the boat), misadjusted throttle stop, valves in need of adjustment, etc. If it's a brand new phenomenon and given that he was fucking with your idle speed, I'd check the throttle stop adjustment. He may have turned the wrong screw...

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Get a reliable tacho to put on it and find out the true figure.  Then you have solid info to go back to the mechanic and ask why.  If you can't get to even 90% of recommended max RPM at WOT, then there are issues to chase. 

If it's a new issue - then the list of changes just made are where to start.  Sounds like:  Injectors - were they rejetted/calibrated to spec?, air leaks in fuel lines?, air bled from system properly?, fuel filters replaced and bled?, throttle stop as suggested above...

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Fire the mechanic?

Seriously, "the old gal purrs just fine" but can't push the boat to 3/4 of the speed it used to with everything else the same?  

If you haven't  anything, issue has to be motor/fuel related.  Can't be prop if you used to go 6.7 and now can only get 5.0 with same prop that is clean and opening well...

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I'd be looking for a new mechanic.

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It's almost always the last thing you fucked with in my experience. So the injectors were rebuilt. He doesn't sound like the best mechanic if he left a crush washer in.

So maybe injectors were rebuilt poorly or wrong. Mechanically they are simple. Usually the only thing you can adjust is the opening pressure. You do that with shims inside the injector and he probably didn't do it himself and took to a shop that specializes in that work.

But I'm going to go with he adjusted the wrong screw. There will be one for idle speed. There will be another stop screw so you can't over-rev the engine. If he adjusted that (some are sealed with a wire or wire/lead seal), you may not be close to max RPM. That could be why it sounds so smooth; it's lazing along

Cheap optical tachometers are easy to buy. https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html

Find out what speed the engine is running at and report back. And use a GPS for speed, not a knotmeter.

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I agree with the others, most likely injector related as that is what the incompetent mechanic messed with last. Wrong pressure, poor spray pattern, over tensioned injectors semi seizing the nozzle, wrong washers on leak off, extra nozzle washers etc.I would get a real mechanic to check work completed and not pay the first one.

 

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Having to adjust the idle speed up after installing reco Injectors is a bit suspicious

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Get a cheap laser tacho from internet.  Full throttle should get you around 3200 RPM.  The injectors are adjusted by shims to open at  2560-2702 psi.  (as per workshop manual) This is easily checked by putting them on a test stand and is part of the rebuild procedure.  If you had them rebuilt I would ask for paperwork showing opening pressure and spray pattern for each injector, as well as noting any adjustments that needed to be made.  For what it costs to work on these each injector deserves at least this much.  

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You can get free timing light who's for the iPhone and probably Android that save you from needing to buy a reflective tach. They work just like record player timing lights and are way too user against the engines flywheel.

 

On IOS I use one called "strobe light".

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Here we have an engine about 25 years old, installation probably of the same age as well. As said above there could be many reasons for this machine to slow down, let's consider those before just blaming a mechanic - even if he doesn't seem to be one of the sharpest knifes.

Look at

  • fuel / fuel lines, from fuel tank all the way through filters and pumps to the injectors. This can be rather intensive exercise, eg old fuel hoses can look very good but behave strange when the fuel pump at the engine is sucking maximum.
  • air intake. Diesels consume a lot of air.
  • exhaust. well-know source of loosing power. BTW, the smoke usually tells a lot - what about it?

These are quite easy things to investigate, can easily be done by the owner (and should be, rather regularly).

//J

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On 6/11/2017 at 0:25 AM, Jaramaz said:

Here we have an engine about 25 years old, installation probably of the same age as well. As said above there could be many reasons for this machine to slow down, let's consider those before just blaming a mechanic - even if he doesn't seem to be one of the sharpest knifes.

Look at

  • fuel / fuel lines, from fuel tank all the way through filters and pumps to the injectors. This can be rather intensive exercise, eg old fuel hoses can look very good but behave strange when the fuel pump at the engine is sucking maximum.
  • air intake. Diesels consume a lot of air.
  • exhaust. well-know source of loosing power. BTW, the smoke usually tells a lot - what about it?

These are quite easy things to investigate, can easily be done by the owner (and should be, rather regularly).

//J

J

I'm back. I Since the last post, I have blamed the mechanic, and they sent a new guy. He checked all the basics as detailed above. Suggested it was likely a fuel lift pump as I had zero suction from it, even straight out of a can. He fiddled with this and that, checked rpm and idle speed, ran it up and checked rpm, then suggested I try a new lift pump. 

So I put on a new one today, and Presto! Absolutely no change at all. Zero.

So in summary, I have rebuilt injectors, a new lift pump, a new exhaust hose, I changed both fuel filters, and while I was at it, changed the oil and oil filter.  A diver has checked the prop and pronounced it slick and clean. The engine does run smoothly.

She is still running at lower rpm and at reduced power. I used to top out at 6.75 knots under power, now its 4.9.

What the heck is going on?

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Confirm you get 3200 (as specified by sailak above) when in neutral and the speed lever is all the way "fast". If not it is the screw or the linkage.

If the first mechanic pulled the injector pump out they may have goofed up the govenor springs...or...

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14 hours ago, parclan said:

J

I'm back. I Since the last post, I have blamed the mechanic, and they sent a new guy. He checked all the basics as detailed above. Suggested it was likely a fuel lift pump as I had zero suction from it, even straight out of a can. He fiddled with this and that, checked rpm and idle speed, ran it up and checked rpm, then suggested I try a new lift pump. 

So I put on a new one today, and Presto! Absolutely no change at all. Zero.

So in summary, I have rebuilt injectors, a new lift pump, a new exhaust hose, I changed both fuel filters, and while I was at it, changed the oil and oil filter.  A diver has checked the prop and pronounced it slick and clean. The engine does run smoothly.

She is still running at lower rpm and at reduced power. I used to top out at 6.75 knots under power, now its 4.9.

What the heck is going on?

To advice is always difficult, and then on remote nearly impossible.

Strange that the mechanic #2 doesn't follow up. Their job is to fix the problem. Possible to go back to mec #2 and tell him what you say here? You have spend some money on these guys, yet your problem remain. You are now frustrated, have spent money and time - they should fix this. (Somehow I get the impression you are not too impressed by #2 either).

Anyhow, if you are really really sure you have done everything to check "the above" (it can be damn difficult to find a leak, or to check fuels lines), then as mechanic #1 fiddled with injectors and idle settings one should go back to those.
As everything works fine until you want max power that indicates something with the fuel / air or exhaust.

Good luck and keep us posted!

J

 

 

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If you truly had zero flow through your lift pump, it needed replacing anyway. Hopefully the bad lift pump didn't damage the high pressure injector pumps over time. Still, the sudden onset of this problem supports Zonker's rule that it's usually the last thing fucked with. At this point, I would suspect the injector shop used the wrong thickness shims in the injectors and they aren't opening at the right pressure. Note that the high pressure injector pumps themselves also have a shimming procedure and if they were removed and not reinstalled correctly that could be part of the problem. 

Here's a link to a shop manual for the engine. Worth perusing...

https://avdhoeff.home.xs4all.nl/zeilen_bestanden/Volvo-Penta-Type_2001-2002-2003T_Workshop-Manual.pdf

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I had the *best* injector shop in South Africa rebuild my tiny 3GM30F injector pump. They were working on injector pumps for big ocean going ships there. Truly impressive bits of very precisely machined pieces of big alloy steel. My pump was a toy to them.

Put it back in, carefully replaced all the shims - and HUGE amounts of black smoke poured out the exhaust.

"Nei, it couldn't be us. We are very careful, etc etc." Went back, the old man who is about 70 took it apart in front of me. Everything looked good. Put it back together. Tested out ok on test bench with little cams pumping the fuel. All looks good.

Re-installed it and engine purrs like happy kitten. 

Everybody makes mistakes sometimes. I"m betting on mechanic #1 being the culprit.

And if your lift pump had zero suction how did the engine even run....?

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10 hours ago, Zonker said:

And if your lift pump had zero suction how did the engine even run....?

 

Pure conjecture but if the engine is stopped when the  fuel pump cam is fully lifted you can still move the priming lever but it will not pump.    Bar the engine over half a turn.  I hope that isn't what happened but it is getting hard to find good help.  I know personally two mechanics that just closed profitable shops because they couldn't find decent employees.  

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Zonker may be correct,  fuel injection pumps are notoriously precise machines. I have always treated the injection system as " an engine inside the engine" . The crank , pistons , and valve train is relatively forgiving in terms of clearance and reliability. Fuel system components are measured to the 10000ths of an inch. So if you are having a large drop in power , it is likely because someone in the shop that is looking after the injectors , or fuel injection pump missed something. Worth revisiting , as you have checked over most of the easy systems. The trick is to find the old guy that works on them , not the front desk jockey who feeds you info, not results. Getting tougher these days, for sure. 

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I don't think the original poster said anything about the injector pump - I was just using that as an example of even good mechanics making mistakes. 

I went an re-read the original posting. Going from 6.7 knots to 4.9 knots is about 1/2 the power delivered to the prop. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 1 of the injectors are not working properly. The other possibility is all 3 injectors are injecting poorly. Diesels are pretty simple devices. If you are down on power and the injectors were tinkered with why ISN'T it the fault of the injectors?

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On 7/4/2017 at 11:34 AM, jamhass said:

I had a similar issue once.  Turned out the emergency fuel shutoff valve had gotten partially shut.

I like this idea. Could the fuel stop cable been tweaked a bit? Disconnect your throttle cables from the engine, and see if you can manually get full power. Otherwise it is probably injectors being rebuilt wrong. 

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13 minutes ago, Dabnis2 said:

You are right, my error. If the pump wasn't worked on, leave it alone, injectors first.

 

This problem still not solved?? 

The 2000 series uses cam driven jerk pumps.  To service the injectors you need to at least take the lines off the pumps which can tweak them a little to I would not rule anything out, especially if we know mech1 was messing the the governor (which the service manual forbids if I recall).  Reminds me of a prime power genset we have where one of the old techs thought he could improve the performance of the injection pump.  Thing never ran right again.  That guy was quickly promoted to project management.

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I thought someone up thread suggested disconnecting cables to engine (throttle & cut off) and see if you can get full power/rpm by manually moving throttle lever on engine...if someone/something kinked or allowed one to move, you might not be actually getting full throttle and/or might be getting partial cutoff without realizing it...

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So, here's the latest: after 2 sea trials at full throttle/power to try and get full rpm and boat speed, adjusting air and fuel, setting and resetting throttle settings, checking rpm, we're back to the same place! At one point, we (mechanic) did get the rpm back up and speed was better, but we had too much smoke (white) for the mechanics taste. So he re-fiddled to resolve smoke, but rpm and speed came down. 

The latest conclusion is the now it must be the injection pump.... 

I have new lift pump, new fuel filters, new fuel lines, new exhaust hose, rebuilt injectors, divers checked the folding 2 blade prop and pronounced it in fine shape, bottom gets diver every 90 days and was just done within the last 30 days....

The engine runs as smoothly as ever and starts right up from cold with no issue.

How the heck could it be the injection pump? Do I have another option than spend another $1200 plus labor for that pump?

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Have you called the factory?

I would like to get that recorded.  Volvo abandoned this line of engine many years ago.  

There is no "injection pump" on this engine.  You have three independent jerk pumps one for each injector.  They are fed from the lift pump. If your mechanic really said injection pump you NEED a new mechanic.  A diesel mechanic.   Tuning a diesel isn't like screwing with the needle valves on a lawn mower or chainsaw.  It isn't done by the color of the smoke, although I guess that would tell you if it is screwed up.

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Sailak is right, you need to start listening to the advice of those who know the engine and get a real Diesel mechanic. If all was well prior to the injector service then demand that the injectors are removed and be there when they test them for spray pattern, chatter and opening pressure. A lot can be done wrong with a diesel but following the basics and they are very reliable.

Running on all cylinders?

Injector operation 

Injector installation

Injection pumps timing, they shouldnot have touched this as each pump is shim adjusted to to the camshaft but maybe cam is worn?

No load rpm 

Max Rpm in gear

Parasitic loads- alternator, fridge compressor etc

Is the speed control lever going all the way to the stop

Is the stop control all the way home. This is how you get cold start (excess fuel) on these engines, some throttle on and pull the stop and reset the stop to the run position.

Fuel supply

Injector leak off return un restricted

Air supply

Exhaust restriction

Compression 

Gear box slipping etc etc etc

all else fails fly me over and I will fix it.

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You need to check actual RPM not what a tach is telling you. Get a cheap optical tach gun from Harbour freight and do another sea trial

Still think the injectors are fucked up. You can take them yourself to a diesel injection shop. Say you want them to check the spray pressure and injector pattern. You may have to tell them what is the recommended opening pressure (from shop manual or online forums?)

White smoke is too much unburnt fuel in the exhaust. There should be NONE - if the mechanic says "there is too much for his liking" he is shitting you.

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I'll update details later, but what's a price range to repower a 37' sailboat that had a 28HP diesel?

Bummed out at the dock...

 

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You have to check each step in the Suck, squeeze, bang, blow cycles.  Come back and post each step you have taken and the results. Did you run the engine at full throttle in neutral (no load) and what RPM did you reach?.  Simple governor check that needs to be done. 

Have you removed the intake filter/silencer and inspected right to the intake manifold for blockage?  Friend of mine sucked up a small shop rag in his Yanmar. It covered about 75% of the element and was only visible from one small angle without removing the silencer.  Fortunately, the element stopped the engine from choking it down.  Engine ran like a kitten at idle and harbor settings.  Ran like shit when he throttled up leaving the harbor.  He wasted several hours and then called me.  Took 2 minutes to find the problem.  I think I charge him 2 beers and made him confess his stupidity to his lady as a payment. 

Mechanical diesels need 4 things to run well, all feed the "Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow cycle". 

Plenty of air.  Restricted intake will affect everything, reduce max RPM under load and cause smoking.  The Suck

Compression.  enables the squeeze in the SSBB Seems to not be a problem on this engine. 

Clean fuel.  At the right time, reasonably atomized and in the right quantity.  Diesel engines tolerate a lot of variability here.  The "Bang". Most of your attention has been here because that is where you started (last fucked with approach)

Exhaust.  The "blow".  Diesels don't like back pressure.  A clogged exhaust will choke the engine.  Have you replaced or closely inspected the exhaust mixer? 

I get that you're frustrated.  I would be too but you have to address the basics and eliminate the stuff not causing it.  Unrestricted airflow. Full throw on the throttle lever.  Eliminate governor mis rig, exhaust restrictions. 

 

 

 

 

 

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don't give up on the engine you have.

Swapping engine sounds very attratctive when the old one is not working as it should. 

But a new engine most often means one step up in power, new gearbox, new prop, and of course a new bed. All this costs. The estimate given above ($ 16k) may even be on the low side. 

There are alternative strategies:

1) fixing the engine where it is, in the boat. This is most likely doable, but takes some efforts. There are many suggestions above. Here, I think it is very important you are in control of the process, which doesn't have to mean you have to do all things yourself. IB:s suggestions above, to break down everything to basics, are very good. To get a good book on Diesel engines is a low investment. There are many. 

2) Removing the engine from the boat and bring it to a competent mechanic workshop. Most of this you can do yourself, it takes about ½ day to de-attach an engine and move it out so a truck based crane (or similar) can lift it.  The engine can probably be transported in your own car ... to mount the engine takes a full working day for anyone not very used to all such (I did it many years ago, had minimal knowledge - it is easy).
The workshop should then go through the engine, test it and fix it. Total cost is maybe $2-3k depending on workshop. A fraction of the cost of swapping engine.

Myself, I recommend (1), but if you are close to give up go for (2). It will not hurt as much as swapping to a new engine. (and whatever you do, do not swap to a used engine !). 

//J

 

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I'd recommend bring in a "Non-Marine" diesel mechanic to check it out.

I've found a lot more charlatans and incompetents operating under the "marine" banner than in the automotive world.

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I had similar issues after injector rebuild, which I did because of too much black smoke and difficult starting. After injector rebuild, it wouldn't start at all. I tried rplacing the lift pump. No change. Eventually I found I could start it if I left  injector number 3 of 4 loose to bubble air. Since it was only that injector I assumed the injection pump had a venturi leak. Had the inj. Pump rebuilt. It started easier but had white smoke. I found air in return line. Replaced the lift pump a second time. Success!  Now it rus lIke new. However, the solution doesn't line up with the original problem. The first replacement lift pump didn't produce enough head to reliably move fuel from the tank down in the keel up to the engine.

 If there is white smoke, run from a jerry can and look at the return with a flash light.

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I'd recommend bring in a "Non-Marine" diesel mechanic to check it out.

I've found a lot more charlatans and incompetents operating under the "marine" banner than in the automotive world.

Just tell them its a tractor engine.  Don't mention the boat.  

So what happened?

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8 hours ago, sailak said:

Just tell them its a tractor engine.  Don't mention the boat.  

So what happened?

It was this with competence. Very easily detected that it is a Volvo Penta - it is written in big letters. Even if not ... easy to see. Lying to your mechanic is not a good way to start.

/J

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35 minutes ago, Jaramaz said:

It was this with competence. Very easily detected that it is a Volvo Penta - it is written in big letters. Even if not ... easy to see. Lying to your mechanic is not a good way to start.

/J

But a lot of boat engines started out as tractor engines. The the manufacturer realized they could make 3-5x the revenue if they marinized them. It's amazing how many marine diesels have land based applications with spares at a fraction of the cost.

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On 8/5/2017 at 6:04 AM, Jaramaz said:

It was this with competence. Very easily detected that it is a Volvo Penta - it is written in big letters. Even if not ... easy to see. Lying to your mechanic is not a good way to start.

/J

Fer shits sake..  Sense of humor lately?  If your mechanic couldn't see it came out of a boat that would be your sign to walk away.  FYI that is kinda a running joke in the industry at least everywhere i have lived in North America.  We have marine diesels, stationary power diesels, over the road diesels, agricultural diesels, off road diesels etc.  There are mechanics that specialize in each type of course.  They all know they are exactly the same internals and 90% the same trimmings.

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20 hours ago, sailak said:

Fer shits sake..  Sense of humor lately?  If your mechanic couldn't see it came out of a boat that would be your sign to walk away.  FYI that is kinda a running joke in the industry at least everywhere i have lived in North America.  We have marine diesels, stationary power diesels, over the road diesels, agricultural diesels, off road diesels etc.  There are mechanics that specialize in each type of course.  They all know they are exactly the same internals and 90% the same trimmings.

You may have noticed the OP is not very used to do handle the engine, and now is rather frustrated even looking for replacing the hole thing. Whereas you seem to know even the details. Quite a difference!

Otherwise, I agree with your posting, as well as your earlier postings in this thread.

The workshop and mech #1 should fix this. Either without any further pay or for a given limited amount, say corresponding to 3-4 hours of work. OP should have an honest discussion with the guys - they have costed him some new equipment, time and a lot of worry.

//J

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Ok kids, here is a brief update: The resident Volvo penta guru came out and looked her over, ran her under load, and got her to act up. His conclusion, based on what he thinks is leaking coolant being combusted ( according to very sooty water in the whitish smokey exhaust and that kinda sweet smell of coolant with it, plus not achieving full rpm under load despite proper settings) is that it's a bad head gasket or worse, a cracked head or maybe even a cylinder - and to my knowledge these cylinders are not sleeved. They are proposing to yank the engine and open it up at their shop to fully diagnose the issue _ for just over $2k. Then fix it for more $, and reinstall.  Or repower if it can't be fixed

So, I think I am going to spend a couple weekends with my downloaded engine manuals and take the thing apart. I'll know if its the head gasket or not when I get to that point. I can buy the new head gasket for $150, plus I figure another $500 or so for lost parts. And then if I still have to pull the engine because its something terminal, I can do so then. One of my elder sons is a certified diesel mechanic and he assures me I can't screw it up really, really badly. 

I am going to start a marine diesel repair business.....

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34 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I know about diesel parts cost but $150 for a head gasket? Would it be that much at the tractor place?

Yup, I got the price from our local parts house this afternoon.

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$2K to diagnose?? I'm guessing that includes the labour to remove it to their shop - but is access so bad they can't pull the head while the engine is in the boat.\?

Pulling the head is not that tricky. A cracked block is fairly unlikely but not impossible. Not sure what in the cylinder would cause leaking other than a cracked block or head gasket.

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rhe head gasket itself  amounts to ~ $50, the head gasket kit as shown in the pic below, ~$100 (recommended to go for this). It is possible to google and it is possible to by from other vendors than local. Not only VP is expensive on gasket kits - recently I had to get a gasket kit the Jabsco toilet - $100.

59894b17f3e96_SotningssatsVP.thumb.jpg.301cd56dbbc7007829052a66d6ed2e90.jpg

 

White smoke may be caused by water ingress in the cylinders. Is that the only basis for the guru diagnosis? 

If the head gasket is blown - why did that happen? Just to replace the gasket may not solve very much, here there is a need for a trained eye. 

Agree with Zonker, as so often. 

//J

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You're really getting shit service and lousy advice from your shop.

The path for coolant to get into the exhaust is very, very rarely through the cylinders - there's nearly always way too much pressure inside for coolant to "leak" in. Instead, you get exhaust blowing through the cooling jacket. More likely path for coolant in the exhaust is a heat exchanger leak, which allows the coolant to leak into the raw water where it's mixed with the exhaust at the elbow.

That said, if you feel you have a leak of any sort (gasket, head or block), you do a static compression test with an 18" breaker bar and a fitting that mates an automotive compression gauge to your injector port threads. Pull the injectors, screw in the gauge and rotate the engine through a stroke until it's at TDC, one cylinder at a time. You should see approximately equal compression and bleed off. If there's an outlier, then you pull the head.

 

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I agree with Moon.

A compression test is much less invasive than pulling the cylinder head for inspection and you'll see the result on the gauge. This is the first step to diagnosing a blown head gasket.

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On 8/8/2017 at 9:41 AM, Moonduster said:

You're really getting shit service and lousy advice from your shop.

The path for coolant to get into the exhaust is very, very rarely through the cylinders - there's nearly always way too much pressure inside for coolant to "leak" in. Instead, you get exhaust blowing through the cooling jacket. More likely path for coolant in the exhaust is a heat exchanger leak, which allows the coolant to leak into the raw water where it's mixed with the exhaust at the elbow.

That said, if you feel you have a leak of any sort (gasket, head or block), you do a static compression test with an 18" breaker bar and a fitting that mates an automotive compression gauge to your injector port threads. Pull the injectors, screw in the gauge and rotate the engine through a stroke until it's at TDC, one cylinder at a time. You should see approximately equal compression and bleed off. If there's an outlier, then you pull the head.

 

Most compression test kits come with fittings that will work - the cheapy harbor freight one came with one that even fit my 30 year old Universal 5411 (Kubota).

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"Elder son certified diesel mechanic" get him to assist to pay back some of the $ you spent on raising him. Probably out of state but he would be my trusted source of advice, contacts etc. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 5:57 AM, Ajax said:

I agree with Moon.

A compression test is much less invasive than pulling the cylinder head for inspection and you'll see the result on the gauge. This is the first step to diagnosing a blown head gasket.

 

Normally I would agree but getting the injectors out on the 2000 series is most of the work required to take off the head.  Getting the injectors to seat properly (and whatever compression adapter you are likely to come across) is harder than bolting down the head by about twice.  The 2000 series takes a special touch.  I have no more experience than caring for mine and doing a head decarb job, but have quite a bit of experience with high speed industrial and prime power diesels (JD 4545, 6068, Cat 330's and stuff like that) and these things are in a little bit of a league of their own.  So much of working on the 2000's require copper crush seals and just snugging things up right to the point they don't leak.  I've never really seen anything else like it.  When things are good they are good.  

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Sailak, best response yet, and everything I have found on line confirms what you said. Theyare come back next week to begin the surgery _ on the boat. Stay tuned.

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On 8/7/2017 at 4:10 PM, parclan said:

One of my elder sons is a certified diesel mechanic and he assures me I can't screw it up really, really badly. 

I gotta say, this revelation a full 44 posts into your thread just about made my head explode.

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Diesels don't produce a "vacuum" in the cylinders like a gasoline engine. So very unlikely to suck coolant past a gasket or thru a crack. Much much more likely to see bubbles in the coolant. As said above, a compression check is the easy test. You may need a wiser mechanic.

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3 hours ago, daddle said:

Diesels don't produce a "vacuum" in the cylinders like a gasoline engine.

If no vacuum, how does the air get in?  I have a turbo Volvo 2003T with a manifold gauge.  At low rpm , it shows a couple inches of vacuum, and considerably more when I rev up before the turbo spins up.

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31 minutes ago, jamhass said:

If no vacuum, how does the air get in?  I have a turbo Volvo 2003T with a manifold gauge. 

The turbo blows in in of course. ;)

 

Of course all IC engines produce vacuum - "Suck Squeeze, Bang, Blow"

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

The turbo blows in in of course. ;)

 

Of course all IC engines produce vacuum - "Suck Squeeze, Bang, Blow"

All engines will produce a vacuum through restriction in the case of the turbo engine restriction is the compressor wheel, plumbing and filter. True usable vacuum needs a throttle body which few diesels have, some older ones did have them for governor control. 

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5 hours ago, IStream said:

I gotta say, this revelation a full 44 posts into your thread just about made my head explode.

Agreed, I would rather trust a family member to help with the diagnosis. The OP will blindly follow the local experts, spend a wad of cash to repair what will be a simple cause of the issue. Just can't help some people! The 2001 to 2003 engines just aren't that complicated, yes European in some sealing and set up but simple compared to modern common rail etc. that we drive every day.

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3 hours ago, jamhass said:

If no vacuum, how does the air get in?

I forgot to put it in facetious font in response to:

7 hours ago, daddle said:

Diesels don't produce a "vacuum" in the cylinders like a gasoline engine.

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10 hours ago, IStream said:

I gotta say, this revelation a full 44 posts into your thread just about made my head explode.

You make the assumption that one sits in front of a screen watching for responses; sorry, but I do not. I post when I post, and there may have been 44 or 144 posts betwixt. Its the best I can do. 

Thanks all, for the helpful insights.

Looking forward to getting underway soon.

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Well, here's an update: tech came and took it apart, taking the head and all related parts back to the shop. Injectors had fouled too..The head was being sent over to another place that check it for cracks. We were in line waiting our turn, and initial thoughts were we had a blown head gasket.

Then along comes a big storm called Harvey.

The diesel shop is gone, as well as our engine parts. I hope everyone is safe, and that shop is one of hundreds and hundreds to be hammered. This one will take us a while to get out from under, its pretty dang bad. 

Insurance claim started. We will see how it plays out.

All around, everyone has had a real good kick in the the anodes.

 

 

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22 hours ago, parclan said:

Well, here's an update: tech came and took it apart, taking the head and all related parts back to the shop. Injectors had fouled too..The head was being sent over to another place that check it for cracks. We were in line waiting our turn, and initial thoughts were we had a blown head gasket.

Then along comes a big storm called Harvey.

The diesel shop is gone, as well as our engine parts. I hope everyone is safe, and that shop is one of hundreds and hundreds to be hammered. This one will take us a while to get out from under, its pretty dang bad. 

Insurance claim started. We will see how it plays out.

All around, everyone has had a real good kick in the the anodes.

 

 

Hope that the replaceable engine parts are the limit of your losses. Wish you and your neighbors best in your recovery. 

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