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Bull City

Torqueedo Travel 1003 vs. Honda 2 HP

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This morning I compared the two motors on my H-Boat (27' 3200 lbs.) in light wind over about 1/4 mile with a very clean bottom. With wind on the beam, and a wide open throttle, I could average about 5.1 knots with the Honda, and 4.8 with the Torqueedo, a difference of 0.3 knots.

Torqueedo says the Travel 1003 is the equivalent of a 3 HP petrol engine. The Honda is now sold as a 2.3 HP motor. The Torqueedo claim is an exaggeration. 

Here is what Torqueedo USA estimated for my H-Boat with the 530 Wh battery:

Speed - Range - Run Time

  • Slow: 2.3 mph/2kts - 23.0 miles - 10:30
  • Half throttle: 3.4 mph/3kts - 12.1 miles - 3:30
  • Full throttle: 5.7 mph/5kts - 3.2 miles - 0:35

The Full Throttle estimate is very far off, almost a full knot. The 1/2 throttle estimate is pretty close: I did about 3.2 knots with the Torqueedo at 1/2 throttle. 

I bought a spare 915Wh battery, which should add twice the above run-times, so based on my actual experience, my ranges should be 3X, or:

  • Half throttle: 3.2 knots - 10:30 - 33 miles
  • Full throttle: 4.8 knots - 1:05 - 4.8 miles

With the H-Boat's long afterdeck, the remote throttle is so nice. Instead of having to climb back 4 or 5 feet to adjust the throttle, I can do it from the cockpit. AND I have reverse! The Torqueedo has a mechanism so that the motor doesn't lift itself out of the water when you reverse. The Honda, which can be "reversed" by pivoting it 180º, does not have this feature and it tends to lift the propellor almost out of the water in "reverse."

Finally, I don't have to deal with stinky gas/petrol fumes, a stinky gas jerry can, gas additives, oil changes, carburetors, the temperamental nature of internal combustion engines, noise, etc. At the end of the day, I can stow the components below and not worry about oil and petrol leaking into the cabin.

Methinks I can live with this.

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You are correct. My mistake. Flogging at dawn.

Thanks. I feel better.

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4.8 knots is very good, although much less than "3 HP".  Why such a big difference to your earlier tests where you reported 3.9-4.1 knots? The hull needs to be in very bad shape for such a big difference. What about some headwind?

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Thank you for reporting, Bull! I am really interested in the 1003 and it is super helpful to get some real world info. Are you solar charging or charging at home? 

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10 hours ago, Joakim said:

4.8 knots is very good, although much less than "3 HP".  Why such a big difference to your earlier tests where you reported 3.9-4.1 knots? The hull needs to be in very bad shape for such a big difference. What about some headwind?

That's a good question. The hull did have some algae on it. The wind was on the light side. I was using the Torqueedo's speed reading. For this comparison, I used a GPS app on my phone. Perhaps when I did it in January, I did not run for the same distance in a straight line. I feel better about the accuracy of the comparison I just did.

9 hours ago, vjm said:

Thank you for reporting, Bull! I am really interested in the 1003 and it is super helpful to get some real world info. Are you solar charging or charging at home? 

I am not solar charging at this time. I bought a spare battery, the 915Wh, and I am charging them at home. 

Correction:

There is another error in the reporting of my carefully done scientific comparison. With the two batteries, full throttle numbers should be:

  • Full throttle: 4.8 knots - 1:45 - 8.4 miles

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I've gone for a few daysails with the TT 1003, and I am enjoying it. It has a locking device which prevents it from tilting out of the water when in reverse, something the Honda does not. The motor unit is very light; I am a decrepit 68-year-old, and I can carry it with one hand. I stow it in the cabin when I put the boat to bed.

The remote throttle has been great. As mentioned in the other Torqueedo thread, my long after deck made the Honda very awkward - not good for a decrepit 68-year-old. I think I've figured out how to route and stow the remote throttle & cable. Should be pretty easy to do.

The Honda is air-cooled and noisy. The Torqueedo is very quiet: kind of eerie.

Now I'm just working through the little routine things like where to stow stuff and remembering to charge batteries.

I'm very happy thus far.

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We decided to buy a new motor for the Melges 24, replacing a Johnson 3.5hp 2 stroke that is powerful and simple but buzzy. The Torqueedo is Class-legal as is the Lehr Propane fueled engine. 

Found the following on (IIRC) a Yamaha site:

"A Bollard pull test showed:
Tohatsu* 3.5hp - 90lbs of thrust (41 lbs)
Honda 2.3hp at 66lbs of thrust. (28 lbs)
Suzuki 2.5hp at 83lbs of thrust,  .(28 lbs)
Yamaha 2.5hp at 78lbs of thrust  (37 lbs)

The Suzuki has become the most popular new choice. It has a lock to prevent climb when reversed. 1 liter internal tank. Same weight as the Johnson. The Suzuki is currently only available as a 15" shaft, though while the others are available with 20".

* Also sold as Mercury

 

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The Suzuki is a great little engine, I've had mine for three years and haven't had any issues. The only knock I've heard against it is that you need to pull the starter cord like you really mean it. I suspect it's a fairly high compression design. 

The only thing I'd change on it would be to have the gas tank higher than the carb so it doesn't take as many strokes to fill the bowl after you run it dry for storage, but that would increase the size of the head. 

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Bull, do you have it on a transom mount? If so, how do feel about that set up and possible swamping/ repeated dunkings? Does it seem robustly waterproof? 

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Hey there, I'm a long time boatless lurker which will change very soon. One of the things I had to decide on is whether to go with a gas or electric engine. I was considering the Suzuki for a while but ended up getting the TT 1003CS which arrived yesterday. I'm happy to elaborate why I picked the TT but this and the other Torqeedo thread were very helpful in my decision process (thanks Bull). I'm quite excited to see how things work out (or not) and report back. I'll be in coastal tidal waters with no charging capabilities underway.

Regard waterproof: It's rated IP67. The battery module is quite solid, same goes for the housing of the motor. I bet they can withstand submersion way below the official rating. The tiller is possibly the weak link with the IP67 rating. But it's important to remember that we're still talking about full immersion (read: it will run underwater).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSQJElFAR7k

 

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17 hours ago, vjm said:

Bull, do you have it on a transom mount? If so, how do feel about that set up and possible swamping/ repeated dunkings? Does it seem robustly waterproof? 

It is mounted on a transom bracket, and so far I'm very happy with the set up. The bracket can lift it well out of the water. I sail on an inland lake; if there were a wave big enough to swamp it, the last thing I would be worried about is the Torqueedo. So far, I have been leaving it on the bracket while sailing, and stowing it in the cabin when I leave the boat.  

49 minutes ago, Hérisson said:

Hey there, I'm a long time boatless lurker which will change very soon. One of the things I had to decide on is whether to go with a gas or electric engine. I was considering the Suzuki for a while but ended up getting the TT 1003CS which arrived yesterday. I'm happy to elaborate why I picked the TT but this and the other Torqeedo thread were very helpful in my decision process (thanks Bull). I'm quite excited to see how things work out (or not) and report back. I'll be in coastal tidal waters with no charging capabilities underway.

Regard waterproof: It's rated IP67. The battery module is quite solid, same goes for the housing of the motor. I bet they can withstand submersion way below the official rating. The tiller is possibly the weak link with the IP67 rating. But it's important to remember that we're still talking about full immersion (read: it will run underwater).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSQJElFAR7k

 

I guess you got the 900 Wh battery. I got mine in January, and at that time they would only sell it with the 500 Wh battery. I got a 900 for a spare. Do you have a boat for the motor? If so, what kind?

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It's the one with the larger 915Wh battery (TT 1003C with short shaft to be exact). My boat is a Seascape 18 but I don't have it yet. It arrives next week in the US and delivery to me is in about 3 weeks. Up until then I've to take pleasure in measuring the engine's Bollard pull in the bathtub.

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Thank you both! This sounds like a great option for a trailer sailor option I am considering. 

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4 hours ago, Hérisson said:

It's the one with the larger 915Wh battery (TT 1003C with short shaft to be exact). My boat is a Seascape 18 but I don't have it yet. It arrives next week in the US and delivery to me is in about 3 weeks. Up until then I've to take pleasure in measuring the engine's Bollard pull in the bathtub.

1,100 lbs./500 kg - you should fly for hours with the Torqueedo.

Bollard pulls in the tub? Be careful of the family jewels!

Where will you be sailing?

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1 hour ago, vjm said:

Thank you both! This sounds like a great option for a trailer sailor option I am considering. 

What are you considereing?

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A Montgomery 15 or 17, whichever appears first in good condition. 

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Here are my results. No current, light wind on the beam. All measured in one go without changing direction and starting at 100% battery charge. I tried to measure in one knot increments from slow to full throttle. The 3-4kts is my sweet spot in terms of range. So far I've been using it only to get in and out of the marina and one battery charge should last for many weekends. I'm happy with my choice as handling gasoline on that boat would be difficult.

torqeedo-1003CS-seascape18.png

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3 hours ago, Hérisson said:

The 3-4kts is my sweet spot in terms of range.

That's what I find too, in a 3200 lb. H-Boat.

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Listed my Honda 2 HP on Craigs List. A guy is coming to look at it tomorrow. I am having "range anxiety." Can anyone counsel me?:o

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If you sell it you can always get another one again. Craigslist is just a stream of items to add to or borrow from as you see fit. 

I just sold my Honda 2hp after not using it for two years of cruising (I had it as a dinghy motor), I just like rowing.  Cool little motor but it didn't do anyone any good just hanging out in my garden shed.

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Thanks for the counseling. If I sell the Honda and my "range anxiety" has any basis, I can buy another 915 Wh battery for about the same as a Honda.

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