DTA

RS700 Newbie Video

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Learning ...

But at least I'm now confident that in 15 mph onshore winds, I'll be able to make it back to my launch point in one piece.

 

 

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I swear that you had a hat to start with.  Hopefully, it wasn't a favourite.  :)  Smile, it's supposed to be fun!

Might want to tighten up the tension on your trap shock cords so that you don't need to hunt for them on the grab.

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Hah! I did have a hat. I lost it as I was reaching and hunting around for the trapeze loop. I'm thinking I might need to tighten up the tension on those trap shock cords! :-):)

And you're right about smiling. I do need to remember that it's fun. But I'm presently in the intimidation stage of learning this boat. The sail plan on this thing is just ridiculous. It's just kind of a scary boat to be in charge of. But I'm slowly loosening up. By the end of summer I might actually crack a smile and have fun!!

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5 minutes ago, Holo Nui said:

Where are you sailing?  Looks like a fun boat.  

Canyon Lake. Comal Park. I'm out there most Saturdays flopping around.

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I sail out of LCYC in a Weta.  We have monthly board boat races there and it would be great to have an RS700 out.

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1 hour ago, Holo Nui said:

I sail out of LCYC in a Weta.  We have monthly board boat races there and it would be great to have an RS700 out.

I know another Weta sailor out at LCYC. Nice guy. Beautiful boat. You guys go fast!! I look forward to seeing you out there. Now that I'm getting less petrified, I'm starting to venture out of the Comal Park nook and into the main body of the lake. So, we should be seeing each other w/ some frequency!

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Hey DTA, nice shiny new skiff.  Congrats.  Once you learn, you will never look back.  I have an MPS and the learning curve was steep, but cannot imagine sailing anything else.  Nothing beats being out on the wing, fully trapped, flying under the kite.  In the video, why are you not hooked into the trap?  Learning to be comfortable in the trapeze is the first most important skill to learn.  Also, why are you sitting in the boat?  I never sit in my skiff (unless resting).  These boats are way easier to control if you are on your feet and hooked in.  You mentioned being comfortable in 15 knots.  I suggest only sailing the boat in 8 (min) to 12 (max) knots until you can sail standing (it is OK to sit on the racks between tacks/jibes, but I find it easier to go rack to rack), and are reasonably competent in the maneuvers (host, drop, tack, jibe).  Start by trapping off the gunwale, and then learn to use the racks.  Let me know if you have any questions.  Cheers,  Frank.

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1 hour ago, FrankC said:

In the video, why are you not hooked into the trap?  Learning to be comfortable in the trapeze is the first most important skill to learn.  Also, why are you sitting in the boat?  I never sit in my skiff (unless resting).  These boats are way easier to control if you are on your feet and hooked in.  

Once I go out and start trapezing I capsize a lot. Genereally, I'll capsize a half-dozen times in one hour and I'm spent and ready to quit for the day. But I want to sail for more than just one hour. So, I generally spend the first couple hours of any sailing session just sitting out on the wing w/o the trapeze letting the mainsheet out and just taking it easy, as in the video above. After I've had a couple hours sailing like that, then I'll start trapezing, at which point I've got about an hour of sailing before I'm exhausted from the non-stop capsizing. My video camera just ran out of memory before I got to the trapezing part of my sailing session.

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DTA

I think you misunderstand what FrankC is suggesting. Get the trapeze shock cord sorted so the trapeze doesn't float about. Next, Hook on. You should be able to be in almost exactly the same position as you are now sitting, but with all the weight on your feet and the trapeze instead of on the wing. There is no need to use the handle at all. Get used to helming like that. From there, the next thing is to step onto the side of the boat. Because you are already on your feet, it isn't a big step. Don't try going out on the rack. Then practice steering from there and moving in and out that short amount. After some time, you will get comfortable trapezing in that position and then it is time for the small step out onto the rack. Again, get used to this and practice moving in and out, a small amount at a tie. You don't want to be going from fully in to fully out in one go yet. Only once you are comfortable trapezing high on the rack do you begin to let yourself down. 

I might be wrong, but I suspect you aren't doing yourself any favours with those shoes. They don't exactly look like my first choice for trapezing. I go for something with a  far less rigid sole. My favourites are these

liberty-shoe_1422979095_1024x1024@2x.jpg

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On 6/12/2017 at 1:40 PM, DTA said:

Hah! I did have a hat. I lost it as I was reaching and hunting around for the trapeze loop. I'm thinking I might need to tighten up the tension on those trap shock cords! :-):)

And you're right about smiling. I do need to remember that it's fun. But I'm presently in the intimidation stage of learning this boat. The sail plan on this thing is just ridiculous. It's just kind of a scary boat to be in charge of. But I'm slowly loosening up. By the end of summer I might actually crack a smile and have fun!!

The idea is to have the trap hooks stay right in the same place so that you can always grab them quickly without thinking. If they are flopping around, you will have to lean to the low side at a time when you really can't afford to; plus hunting around for them will slow you down.

Hat? No worry, just try not to loose your pants!

Seriously, looks like a lot of fun. I'm envious

FB- Doug

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I hear ya about the capsizes.  Not to toot my own horn, but I am the king of capsizes.  I think I hold the unofficial world record in skiff capsizing.  My record for shortest distance sailed before capsizing is 100 feet.  I have been rescued by the sherrif from the middle of the river.  All pretty humbling, but all part of the process.  

I also came from the Laser world, and I think you almost have to forget everything you learned there.  The Laser is a boat that needs to be physically dominated to sail efficiently.  You need to hike and torque your ass off.  The skiff on the other hand wants to sail itself.  You just need to put yourself in the right position to allow it to do that.  While the Laser responds to power, the skiff responds to agility and nimble speed.  Do everything fast, but do not rush.  If you are a second slow, you are swimming.  The three main components for boat control are sail trim, body trim on the rack, and body trim on the wire.  It is kind of like a three legged stool.  If any of those three legs is out of whack, then you are unstable and likely to capsize.  However, when you have all three working together, the boat sails itself and it is effortless magic.  You will be amazed at how moving your body a few inches forward or back on the rack, or up/down on the wire, makes a difference in how the boat responds.  When you get to the point where you are adjusting those three variables on the fly without thinking, then that's when the fun starts.  

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You should do some supplementary aerobic fitness training if you're not already - sailing only once a week will make for very a long road to meeting the physical requirements of handling this thing properly. Even running or cycling/stationary bike will go a really long way to helping with exhaustion from subsequent capsizes.

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I'm on the treadmill at a 15 degree incline at 3 mph for 20 minutes about 4-5 times per week. I do this right before my weight workout (an additional 40 minutes). Plus, I do my best to make my weight workout an aerobic activity (i.e. no sitting around between sets and reps - heart rate generally stays about 135 - 150 throughout my entire weight workout). I'm just old I guess (46). And I can't stop eating HOHOs and DING DONGS.

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4 hours ago, Holo Nui said:

Where did you get the RS700, KO Sailing?  Did they order it or have it in stock?

 

Ordered it from KO Sailing. They were great - they also set me up w/ a trailer that was perfect for the boat.

Winds are 15-20 mph tomorrow. I'm already nervous!!!

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No way, Frank, I am the KING of capsizes.  8 during any 2 hour session, 3x per week. ( Though towards the end of the last season, I was 50/50 at the teabag recovery.)

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DTA- Congrats on the 700 and well done putting your videos out there!

I recommend taking the main sheet out of the cleat, and work on using main trim to help balance the boat.  Instead of moving your body in when things feel light, first trim in that main!  There's a big amount of sail area up there, make it work for you.

Keep at it!

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Great to see your 700 on the water at last Dion.

+1 on getting the right shoes for trapping, sometimes you are almost gripping the gunwale with your toes to hang on. If you don't have soft grippy soles you are going to be skating all over the place.

Once you have enough breeze to get on the wire you need to pull in the main as you are stepping out to balance the extra power with your weight (It happens naturally if you are holding it). Once you are on the wire learn to steer the boat under the rig. Upwind you can bear away a few degrees to hold you on the wire in lulls and pinch it up in the gusts for an initial response, once you get the feeling of balance on the wire you can combine that with trimming the sheet as you go.

Good luck today

 

 

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1 hour ago, JeffD said:

Great to see your 700 on the water at last Dion.

+1 on getting the right shoes for trapping, sometimes you are almost gripping the gunwale with your toes to hang on. If you don't have soft grippy soles you are going to be skating all over the place.

Once you have enough breeze to get on the wire you need to pull in the main as you are stepping out to balance the extra power with your weight (It happens naturally if you are holding it). Once you are on the wire learn to steer the boat under the rig. Upwind you can bear away a few degrees to hold you on the wire in lulls and pinch it up in the gusts for an initial response, once you get the feeling of balance on the wire you can combine that with trimming the sheet as you go.

Good luck today

 

I didn't want to say earlier, and I have no recent trapping experience; BUT this is the key right here. Driving with a trap is different from driving by steering to wind angle and shifting weight. The boat is so fast that your apparent wind is the big driving force, and instead of hopping back and forth, maintain the force within a boundary to hold the weight on the trap and GO GO GO. It's like riding a bicycle. If you try to keep it balanced by shifting weight, you will always be lagging behind the ease/trim-heel-accelerate-trim/ease curve.

Some years ago I went thru the same thing learning to drive a catamaran downwind, doing the Wild Thing. It's totally wrong by all sailing reflexes developed in any other kind of sailing.

FB- Doug

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On 6/14/2017 at 4:31 PM, DTA said:

I know another Weta sailor out at LCYC. Nice guy. Beautiful boat. You guys go fast!! I look forward to seeing you out there. Now that I'm getting less petrified, I'm starting to venture out of the Comal Park nook and into the main body of the lake. So, we should be seeing each other w/ some frequency!

Thanks for the kind words.  It's not often an asshole like me hears it.

Great thread that's chock full of awesome advice.  You'll be blasting around with confidence in no time.  But will you ever sail it close to it's rating?  One way to find out.

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I concede the throne, Kurio99.  Although, I did capsize on Friday.  Rear foot got stuck in the strap on a jibe.  It was a glorious run until it all went tits up though.

I agree with Doug that you should not be flopping around out there steering and shifting weight in response to the wind.  Skiff sailing is much more subtle. Upwind, my initial response to a gust is to flatten out my body more toward to water surface.  If I am already trapping flat-out, then I slide back a bit on the rack (slightly back from the trap elastic).  Last response is to ease the mainsheet slightly if the boat is still not flat.  When I am going through this sequence more than I want (or see that I will), I start to lower myself on the trapline.  In a lull, I will slide forward on the rack until I am at the very front.  If I am still heeling to windward, I will bend at the knees and bring my weight in toward the center of the boat at little at a time until sailing flat again (this is assuming the main is block to block already).  If this is happening more than I want, then I will raise myself on the trap line.  So, as I said before, there is a constant interplay between these three variables.  This is just how I do it.  I know other MPS sailors that use the trapline adjuster more frequently.  The only WRONG way is when the boat is not dead flat in the water.  Note I have not mentioned the rudder as it is not really a big part of the equation upwind, as Dough aluded to.  I keep a very light touch on the tiller.

Lots of good advice in this thread, keep it coming.

 

 

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DTA,  this is advice from the capsize king so take it with a grain of salt, but you are going to discover that fore-aft position is particularly noticeable with these boats.  With the hikers, we can be fairly sloppy and at worst, end up digging the nose or dragging our tail.  With the 700, it can start sailing almost sideways if your weight is out and too far back.  Sailing with a Contender buddy, found myself falling behind - shifted 8 inches forward and big change in the boat's performance.

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oh, that sucks. hope you'll get it sorted out soon!

as far as capsizing, I can't say I'm a king, since I'm still a complete chicken after having a single-handling skiff for 3 seasons now. I still don't venture out in more than 12kt winds, and probable spend way too much time in the boat :(

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While you are ordering that shackle, DTA, you should consider ordering a bunch of spare parts - blocks, shackles, cleats, line, etc..  that are on the boat. Staying off the water in need of a simple shackle is no fun. And you are pretty much guaranteed other things are going to fail/fall off/be misplaced over the course of the year. I am unfamiliar with the 700, but chances are over time you will need some rivets, stainless screws/bolts/nuts - as well as some good epoxy and filler. Capsizes at speed in a 700 will likely have more potential to do some damage than an Aero. Plus - the, loads are just bigger and things get loose. And we need more cowbell, I mean more video!

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DTA, Had exactly the same happen to a vang shackle on our RS800. Had not checked it for a long time though. Can you not get a shackle closer to home rather than from RS?

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Quite right, Bill.  Let a friend take out my RS700 during the previous summer.  Hours later, he limped back to dock, having cleanly sheared off the gooseneck.  All four rivets.

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Yep, I'm discovering that the RS700 is more of a high class prima donna than the RS Aero. Cad99UK, thanks for the info regarding your own experience. That shackle is tricky to get right. The hole in the aluminum is very narrow, so the shackle needs to be narrow. Plus, I assume that the curved end is the one touching the aluminum hole when in action, otherwise it seems like there would be undue leverage on the shackle when the sail is out to a wide angle. Anyway, seems like a tricky part to get exactly right.

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1 hour ago, DTA said:

Yep, I'm discovering that the RS700 is more of a high class prima donna than the RS Aero. Cad99UK, thanks for the info regarding your own experience. That shackle is tricky to get right. The hole in the aluminum is very narrow, so the shackle needs to be narrow. Plus, I assume that the curved end is the one touching the aluminum hole when in action, otherwise it seems like there would be undue leverage on the shackle when the sail is out to a wide angle. Anyway, seems like a tricky part to get exactly right.

Can you replace it with a Dyneema(Amsteel) soft shackle?

http://www.apsltd.com/1-8-dyneema-shackle-loop.html

I buy single-braid Dyneema when it's on sale and make these up myself, it's quick and easy. You can also make any length you need, I put a SS washer above the stopper knot, holds perfectly. Especially if you tape them in place ;)

FB- Doug

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@rkivlen
I figured out that using main only to keep the balance is difficult at start. My old Hobie16 reacted extremely quick to changes via mainshet, where the RS700 is much more "rubbery".
For me it was easier to sail upright by using using tiller and a bit of body movement.

@DTA
Standing upright as suggested is indeed pretty simple. I'm really not used to skiffs, but by sitting only helped my back pain, not stability :o
By standing I can quickly step in/out smoothly without letting mainsheet/tiller unattended. If there is more wind, I simply step one foot onto the wingbar.
Only moment to be careful is with the kite up in a gust, that biest accelerates so quickly you will fall out of the boat over tha back if you are not careful :lol:

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, DtM said:

Time for a new video so we can check on progress.

Thanks man. Discovered a broken vang shackle while rigging up two weeks ago, which burned that weekend of sailing. And I just spent the entire July 4th weekend sailing the Aero in Gulf of Mex surf. Back to the RS700 next weekend!

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Sorry. Last several weekends have been 5 mph winds at the lake. So, the video is of me just trying to find a comfortable way to kneel/crouch in the hull of the boat. Not very exciting. Plus, a couple recent weekends in Corpus with big winds, which is no place for me to try out the RS700. Just been hard for a working dad to find the time to catch the sweet spot of "not too calm but not too windy" on a weekend that's needed for an RS700 newbie.

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DTA, In lights winds like the 5 mph you refer to I always helm our RS800 or 29er stood up. No crouching or kneeling ever. Far easier to balance the boat and respond to little puffs that come through.

Come to think I am always stood up or wiring other than a quick sit on the racks on the way out on the wire.

Try the standing up thing, much less tiring as easier to move around. Remember move like a cat with silk slippers.

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On 7/27/2017 at 10:28 AM, cad99uk said:

DTA, In lights winds like the 5 mph you refer to I always helm our RS800 or 29er stood up. No crouching or kneeling ever. Far easier to balance the boat and respond to little puffs that come through.

Come to think I am always stood up or wiring other than a quick sit on the racks on the way out on the wire.

Try the standing up thing, much less tiring as easier to move around. Remember move like a cat with silk slippers.

Tomorrow will be another 5 mph barn burner. I'll try standing per your suggestion. Thanks.

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The RS 700 is definitely a "no-sitter", just like most trapezing skiffs.

The only modes known are

- Standing when not enough wind for trapezing

- Transition: semi standing, semi trapezing, always hooked in

- Full trap

 

Sitting is no-no at all times as you are to slow and sluggish so move around. The boat is (as you noticed) very tipy and you need to move around fast and nimble.

Keep the weight forward in the upwinds and balance on the hull and wings, with the trapeze clipped in - always ready to move the ass out.

Set the trapeze very high in transition conditions, and only start to lower once fully extended in the trapeze. When going out into the trapeze, never sit down, and also when coming in, don't let that ass hit the wing. Always go from standing to trapezing and visa versa.

 

check out the below vid for some nice light wind trapezing technique.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DTA said:

Awesome!!!!

DTA,

Welcome back!  Hope that Harvey didn't rough up you or your boats too badly.  Imagine that you could sailed from your front door at times there. Hurricane season must be putting a real crimp on your sailing.

Must say that sitting through my own footage was a real cringe worthy experience.  Decided to double down on the embarrassment factor by putting out a video.  Real incentive to get my sh#t together.  Next time, I'll be standing and keeping her properly level.  Aiming for some proper crash footage like going down that mine or capsizing to leeward in some extreme gust.  ;)

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What was cool was seeing all the floundering at the beginning of your video, but then a nice stand-out ride at the end. I'm still waiting for my nice, calm, hanging-out-on-the-trap ride!

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At 9s into the video you flicked the mainsheet up slightly and it popped out of the cleat. You weren't holding the sheet so it blew out.

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I suspect that it is better to recover from a capsize by going over the side, by either climbing over the rail or setting your rails further out so that you can go over the gunnel.  The seal entry from the back is fine in light winds, but may be problematic as the wind picks up.

Watch that you don't have too many fiddly bits that can catch on the rig.  Some at our club wear rash vests over the whole kit to avoid that situation. 

By the way, I did the exact same thing halfway through my video.  I avoid cleating so have to be careful when I pass the main sheet to my tiller hand.  At that brief moment, I have this stupid look on my face when I realize that I just dropped the main before going plunk.

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1 hour ago, kurio99 said:

I suspect that it is better to recover from a capsize by going over the side, by either climbing over the rail or setting your rails further out so that you can go over the gunnel.  The seal entry from the back is fine in light winds, but may be problematic as the wind picks up.

Watch that you don't have too many fiddly bits that can catch on the rig.  Some at our club wear rash vests over the whole kit to avoid that situation. 

By the way, I did the exact same thing halfway through my video.  I avoid cleating so have to be careful when I pass the main sheet to my tiller hand.  At that brief moment, I have this stupid look on my face when I realize that I just dropped the main before going plunk.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to go over the rails. As soon as the mast starts rising up, then the daggerboard is slanted down, and it feels impossible to hop over. I know it can be done, because I see videos of people doing it, but it's a lot harder than it looks. Kudos to you for pulling it off!

I'd be REALLY scared about trying to weasel in-between the rails and the gunwale. That just has "drowning death" written all over it. I'm sure others more acrobatic and thinner than myself can pull it off. But I'm 230 lbs., so that just seems like russian roulette for me.

By the way, I do want to tidy up per your suggestion. Where do folks get those tidy "go over everything" lycra vests that I see the real sailors wear? I've got rash vests, but they would rip apart if I tried to pull them over a life jacket + harness.

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May just be me, but I control the capsize recovery.  As soon as the sail breaks the water, I shift my weight towards the hull to slow or even stop the recovery.  I hover the mast just above the water and let the wind shift the boat to a more favourable angle.  When I'm ready and not before, I start my mad scramble over the side which also gets the boat rolling upright.

When I first started with the RS700, I had the pins at their lowest setting and was able to go over the rail.  Later when I moved them to my weight range, I had the same worries about snagging on the shock cords under the bar.  I set to the third hole while on dry land, made repetitions of slipping between the gunnel and rail, checking for snags and addressing my fears.

Are your pins at the narrowest setting?  It would make the climb over easier.  Given your weight range, you likely don't need a wider setting to power up the boat and should not need to climb between the rails.

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4 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

I use a XXXXL compression shirt. 

I know you're joking, but that's seriously what I need!!!

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3 hours ago, kurio99 said:

May just be me, but I control the capsize recovery.  As soon as the sail breaks the water, I shift my weight towards the hull to slow or even stop the recovery.  I hover the mast just above the water and let the wind shift the boat to a more favourable angle.  When I'm ready and not before, I start my mad scramble over the side which also gets the boat rolling upright.

When I first started with the RS700, I had the pins at their lowest setting and was able to go over the rail.  Later when I moved them to my weight range, I had the same worries about snagging on the shock cords under the bar.  I set to the third hole while on dry land, made repetitions of slipping between the gunnel and rail, checking for snags and addressing my fears.

Are your pins at the narrowest setting?  It would make the climb over easier.  Given your weight range, you likely don't need a wider setting to power up the boat and should not need to climb between the rails.

As you know, capsizing to windward in the RS700 is really easy to do. Previously, i would have a double-capsize recovery each time (the first capsize recovery would immediately be blown over to a leeward capsize). This capsize from the video was actually the first time I got smart and did what you described - hover the mast just above the waterline so that the boat pushes around w/ the mast on the preferable leeward side. I felt like such a genius!! Next step is to play that same little game (hovering mast above watter) w/ hopping in over the side. Yes - I've got it on the narrowest setting.

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1 hour ago, DTA said:

I know you're joking, but that's seriously what I need!!!

Not joking, I wear XL shirts and the 4XL compression is perfect (also works as loose shirt)

Bought them at a closeout store like Ollie's or Rugged Wearhouse @ $5 each

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2 things happened. After watching carefully, I can see you hadn't cleated the sheet properly and it wasn't in the cleat properly. The other thing is that you weren't holding the sheet properly.

Here is the deal. Stop using the cleat the way you are using it. Without the kite up, there is no excuse for cleating the mainsheet. If sailing a single handed boat without a kite, I would never use a cleat for the main. With the RS700 upwind, don't cleat the sail. If the cleat is in the way and it cleats automatically, change the angle so you have to deliberately cleat it, rather than have it as the default. Having the sail cleated makes you lazy and it detaches you from the most important control. 

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Totally agree with Kurio and GBR.  Sailing with the main uncleated while learning gives you a lot more control and a better feel for the subtle changes in sheet tension needed to get the boat on a plane, depower, maximize vmg, etc.  It also gets your arms in great shape.  Recovering over the side of the boat (I go in between the gunnel and racks on the MPS) puts you in the best position to get the boat planing as quickly as possible after a capsize, and planing is stable.  If you try the seal entry in any kind of breeze, you will be dealing with multiple exhausting capsizes.  Your harness hook will also mess up your gelcoat or worse.  Timing is also vital, and I get back into the boat as it is coming up, never after it is already back up.  Finally, you should be standing (either on the gunnel or the rack) while sailing, not sitting down.  If you were standing and dropped the main, there is a chance you could recover without capsizing by quickly stepping into the middle of the boat.  No chance for this if you are sitting.

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Some other capsize recovery tricks:  Immediately after you capsize, pull in the main all the way and cleat it.  This will keep the boat from turtling.  Also, pull the vang/gnav on as much as you can while standing on the centerboard.  This will flatten the sail so it does not fill with water, making the boat easier to right.

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What caad99uk says. Mainsheet uncleated and vang off as soon as you capsize.If you pull the sail in and cleat it 3 things happen. First, water pools in the sail and its harder to right. then, as the boat begins to come up, the wind catches the sail and pushes you down and finally, as soon as you are upright you get blown over again.

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:D

That gave me a real "feelgood" laugh. So happy for you.

Now you need to pull yourself a little higher in the wire so you cannot sit on the rack that will actually make it easier for you to move in and out as the weight will be better placed on your feet. It will also make the step onto the rack easier, because if you are low you are stepping out while if you are higher, it will be a step up, rather like going from the cockpit floor to the side deck. Hope that makes sense.

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Trapezing is like zen magic once you start to get the feel for it. Obviously I've got a long way to go, but this felt fantastic.

 

 

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Come on, DTA, show us your tack :P 

 

(I'm still working on the wire to wire and it's totally embarrassing.)

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18 hours ago, kurio99 said:

Come on, DTA, show us your tack :P 

 

(I'm still working on the wire to wire and it's totally embarrassing.)

I'm so new to trapezing, I haven't even thought about tacking. I mean, I come in off the wire, chill while sitting on the gunwale for a bit, and then do a really chilled out tack, and kind of just walrus roll over to the other side. I think it will be a couple more weeks before I'm even thinking about linking up trap-to-trap tacking!

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Gads, my wire to wire is brutally bad.  Any drills to fix this?  Having troubles shifting my weight when coming in off the bar.  Tried to do the shift while standing on the bar or the gunnel, but pretty much failed every time.  At the moment, I do the unhook while inside the boat but that slows down the tack too much, resulting in the irons half the time.

 

 

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So there is a lot going wrong in those tacks. There are a number of very good videos on sailing an RS700 which is where I would start. Try this one

Here are a few points to note. First, you need to get a routine and think about that routine so you tack like that all the time. Next, you are creating a world of problems with how you are coming into the boat to start the gybe. Watch what Mark does in the video. He starts by placing the sheet in the rear hand that is holding the tiller and comes in using the handle to pull himself up to standing. Do this right and the trapeze ring should simply fall off the hook unless you have one of those stupid rubber retainers that should be banned because they are so dangerous. Next, note how he gets sat down on the new tack before hooking on. You need to do this to have some righting moment to get speed going. Down speed is trouble as steering is tough and the boat is more susceptible to puffs. Note that at no time does he kneel down, he is always on his feet until he sits on the new wing in order to hook on.

To learn a routine, note everything from the video and try to repeat it. Look at which hand hold what and when during the tack. Look at where his feet go every time. When coaching, I have even drawn marks of  a cockpit floor so the sailor knows where to put his feet every tack.

Be rigorous, plan how you are going to tack before heading out and maybe even take a crib sheet with you so you can refer to it when you aren't getting it right. The crib sheet should be very specific - for instance, move 1 is to place mainsheet into rear hand. Watch really carefully. For instance, does he use the cleat? (only in light wind) Get used to not using the cleat. 

Hope that helps

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I'm using an Allen keyball trap rather than hooks.  Haven't found a position or hip move that will allow them to drop out.  Even tightened my shock cords without success.  (Still prefer the ball system for reasons covered in other threads.)

Been watching the Richard Stenhouse and Higher-Faster videos, but they stand for hook-on.   I don't yet have their balance, so have been resorting to using a knee for more stability.  Hoping to build up speed of hook-on to avoid knee or sitting.  Work in progress.

I am truly amazed by their ability to bend their knees, come in, stand up in perfect balance on the bar while unhooking, and then stepping into the boat while keeping everything flat throughout the turn.  I can't do that and that's why everything goes to piss, before I set a single foot inside the boat.

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1 minute ago, kurio99 said:

I'm using an Allen keyball trap rather than hooks.  Haven't found a position or hip move that will allow them to drop out.  Even tightened my shock cords without success.  (Still prefer the ball system for reasons covered in other threads.)

Been watching the Richard Stenhouse and Higher-Faster videos, but they stand for hook-on.   I don't yet have their balance, so have been resorting to using a knee for more stability.  Hoping to build up speed of hook-on to avoid knee or sitting.  Work in progress.

I am truly amazed by their ability to bend their knees, come in, stand up in perfect balance on the bar while unhooking, and then stepping into the boat while keeping everything flat throughout the turn.  I can't do that and that's why everything goes to piss, before I set a single foot inside the boat.

Well the Allen keyball is part of the problem. It seems like a great solution to an obvious problem, but can you tell me how many people have died due to catching their hook? Probably about as many as have died from other forms of entrapment. My advice, get rid of the Allen system.

I know Sten's videos which is why I posted the other one because I realised that sitting down after the tack was going to be better for you. Go with the sit down out on the wing because it gives you more time as you have some leverage and righting moment. Hooking on standing up needs to be super fast so you can get out straight away, because you need to.

Compared with the way the pros do it and what you are doing, the big difference is the use of the handle to pull yourself up as you come in. That gives you some stability and makes it an all in one movement. The other thing to note is how wide apart the feet are in mid tack when they go under the boom. That gives stability and means you don't need to kneel. Also look at the size and number of steps taken. You are taking lots of little ones with your feet close together giving you no stability. What you are doing is actually making you far more unstable compared with what you see in the video. Your instability is not due to an ability to balance but due to an understanding of adopting a stable position. For instance, taking a big step into the middle of the boat means your foot gets well ahead of your body's centre of weight and therefore gives you margin. A small step doesn't do this. You would also be more stable staying on your feet widely braced apart in mid tack than the kneel you do with all the weight so concentrated. Feet wide apart as you go under the boom stops you falling

It will take time and you will probably swim, but make a resolution not to kneel. The sooner you get that out of the way, the better you will go.

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Interesting.  Watched Pollington in slow mo - he hops.  Rear foot step to gunnel, then a hop straddling the cockpit, then another hop to far gunnel and cockpit, before backstepping his new rear foot to gunnel.  At two points in his transition, both feet are off the boat.  It was not a smooth flow of steps as I had been expecting.

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My first time to completely turtle the RS700. Turned out not to be as scary or difficult as I thought it would be. I just took a rest on the hull, and then got to work. I was able to get her upright w/o much difficulty. I know ... I know. I need to pop the kite in 10-15 mph winds. I'll get there eventually, but I've got to work through my other fear hurdles first. One of them was the fear of completely turtling in 10-15 mph winds and not being able to get the boat back upright. Conquered that fear this weekend!

 

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I find it a bear to recover from a turtle position, maybe as I'm lighter.  Not sure how easy it would be for a smaller person.

Fyi, you may already know this, but you can use your spinnaker sheets to lean out for more leverage.  The knot that joins the two ends, stops at the block, giving you some secured line to grab.

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32 minutes ago, kurio99 said:

I find it a bear to recover from a turtle position, maybe as I'm lighter.  Not sure how easy it would be for a smaller person.

Fyi, you may already know this, but you can use your spinnaker sheets to lean out for more leverage.  The knot that joins the two ends, stops at the block, giving you some secured line to grab.

Well, it's kind of embarrassing i guess, but at 230 lbs she comes up fairly easily w/ me just standing on the gunwale. no leaning out required.  :-)

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Looking good DTA.  You are making great progress.  Here are a couple tips to get you to the next level of progression:

 

1.  It is great that you are now standing and putting weight on the trap.  However, you will be so much more comfortable trapping off of the rack.  The only time I am trapping off the deck is under 8 knots. From the rack, you can often just bend at the knees in lulls, rather than having to come into the boat, which is awkward and slow.  Plus...

2.  It looks like you are in pretty light breeze, so you might consider standing in front of the trapeze elastic rather than behind it.  This will keep the boat better balanced.  Remember that the less powered up you are (on the beat), the further toward the bow of the boat you move.

3.  The two capsizes you showed in the video were to windward, which means you ran out of power and pulled the boat on top of yourself.  I noticed you are pretty sheeted out most of the time.  Your goal should be to sail as close to block-to-block on the beat as you can, easing only in gusts to keep the boat flat.  Moving toward the bow and sheeting in more will prevent a lot of the windward capsizing.

4.  The stern entry post capsize recovery works OK in light breeze, but it really puts you in an awkward position when the breeze is on.  In stronger breeze, you want to get the boat moving as quickly as possible after a capsize recovery, because that is when it is most stable.  Coming over the side (over the rack or between the rack and deck) puts you in the best position to do that.  Try not to get in the habit of the "seal entry" now, as it will make life harder later.

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Frank. It was good advice from you and others that got me this far. Couple questions for you:

At 230 lbs, I feel as though I capsize the boat to windward very easily. On this day (as most days for this lake), the wind was gusty running anywhere from 5 to 15 mph. At a solid and steady 15 mph I feel as though I can stand out on the bar OK. In fact, in my last trip to Corpus Christi I took the boat w/ me and had a great time in a very very steady (both in direction and strength) 13 mph winds. In those conditions, I ventured out onto the bar (unfortunately no video) and felt comfortable crouching in when the wind dipped slightly. But in such radically varying wind from 5 to 15 mph, I feel like I'm going to be continually caught out on the bar when a lull comes, and inevitably capsize to windward. So, I try to play it safe by trapping off the gunwale instead.

Am I just being a chickensh*t, or is this an issue for real RS700 sailors as well?

Do you think, at 230 lbs, I could make the seal entry work for me in higher winds? The thought of having to learn the athletic hurdle over the bar does not sound attractive. I foresee some face bashing into the hull whilst I try to learn that nimble technique. Just thought I'd ask.

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Sailing a skiff in those conditions is tough and is a constant in and out game.  It is frustrating as 5 is not enough to get on the racks probably, but 15 is.  Still, if you move forward and sail block to block you can offset the tendency to capsize to windward.  At 5 knots I would be as far forward as I can get, trapping very high off the hull, sheeted in completely, and have my knees bent.  At 15 I would be flat on the rack, straight legs, probably have the trap elastic between my feet, and be trapping low enough to cleat the main that is fully sheeted.  So, switching back and forth between those positions is challenging.

In regard to capsize recovery, you want to get to the point where as the sail is coming up, you are stepping/climbing into the boat.  The timing is such that when the boat is completely up, you are already standing/sitting on the deck, working the sheet and tiller to get planing.  It is a smooth movement not a hurdle.  The best way is to do this between the racks and hull, though some go over the rack.  Body size should not make a difference as Stenhouse was a multiple MPS world champion (and former olympic class Finn sailor, i.e. big boy).  When you do a seal entry, the boat is already up, and therefore more inclined to (at best) go into irons or (at worst) capsize again.  

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1 hour ago, Holo Nui said:

DTA, at least the water wasn't too cold.  I will see you this weekend for the Wurstfest Regatta.

Great! I anticipate DNF in each of my races, but it will be fun nonetheless.

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I had many similar experiences until I figured out the ballet of launching and landing.  One launch site had a concrete seawall and onshore wind.  While coming in hot on a broad reach I had to douse the kite, pull the center board, pull the rudder and turn drastically into the wind, jump off the rack and catch the boat before hitting the wall at speed  As in most skiff activities, pull the boards while standing to get leverage.  Give yourself plenty of time to pull the centerboard (before running aground).  The boat can coast for a bit with just the rudder, but it is unstable without the centerboard, so pay attention to balancing your weight in the middle of the boat.  Also, you were asking for trouble by letting go of the tiller extension.  At least you did not capsize  (and end up with a mast full of mud or sand) or ding your boards.  Cheers,

 

 

 

 

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