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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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EssjaywhyNZ

Next AC venue options ?

55 posts in this topic

Sir Russell Coutts did a  brill   job  on the AC with  bringing in the  cats :   upwind foiling ,  100%  flight time, 45Knots, emphasis  back  on   crew  work  as  well  as  design,  and all  the  unexpected & unknowns  (pitch pole,  skipper overboard ...)

and he  focused on  Bermuda   -  USA tv time,  no tides,  flat  water,  typical 6 -  15 odd kn breezes, tourist infrastructure ...

but  I  sense an  upset  & changes coming  on,

so  where  are the  future venues that  can  handle the cats at these speeds,  onshore crowd access, with  tv-predictable  winds ?

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Auckland or bust.

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Ask when AC35 has been decided.

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United Emirates has put in a hell of a lot of cash the last few cycles ... just saying  

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I'm sure Charleston would shit all over it self to host it.  

I can't think of a city that thinks any higher and mightier of themselves than CHS.  

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In Auckland, but at night under massive floodlights for benefit of the only important TV audience (US) ... or, let them get up early to watch it broadcast live from AKL for a change. But, UAE is interesting too - do they have a reliable breeze?

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1 hour ago, TN_Kiwi said:

But, UAE is interesting too - do they have a reliable breeze?

Incredibly reliable, is my understanding. Issues with UAE would include time zone and season. They'd probably have to run the AC in the winter months to avoid the heat, and races would start at about 9:00am GMT. 

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1 hour ago, 2Newts said:

Incredibly reliable, is my understanding. Issues with UAE would include time zone and season. They'd probably have to run the AC in the winter months to avoid the heat, and races would start at about 9:00am GMT. 

UAE is a northern hemisphere site, hence the matches can only take place from May 1 to October 31
(The only venue that can have AC matches outside of its hemi related months is Valencia, and we know why ;))

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Oracle is favourite to win it and LE has already said they will be back in BER.

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If Oracle wins and with the new format  - that is the same boats ( or close facsimiles thereof ) in 18 months,  it does give Bermuda a bit of a leg up as the infrastructure is already here and,  I think,  proven.   LE did say while on stage at the opening that he would be back,  but I don't think you can really expect to hold him to that.   It is probably more a matter of practicality,costs and what Larry and co want to do.  Bermuda is not cheap in many respects,  but not having to up stakes and leave may have an appeal,  establishing bases etc is not cheap and takes valuable time.  Most of the teams seem to like it here they say,  but they may just be being polite,  and no harm in that.    To date the event has run pretty well with good racing,  a great AC village and an island pretty well bending over backwards to be welcoming.    At the end of the day,  I really do not have a clue what people like LE and RC look at in determining a venue,  personally,  I would love to see it here again,  it has been an absolute blast so far.  

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Oracle is favourite to win it and LE has already said they will be back in BER.

Favourites can get beaten, obviously.

Perhaps then, not surprising that it's happened for ETNZ before. Remember 1995?

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I hope all the so-called s-experts (sailing-experts) keep lavishing praise and servitude on Spithill and OR-XEROX, making them out as unbeatable. ETNZ will go into the Match as massive underdogs on the strength of the mainly-NH pundits' willingness to overlook the many defects of AC35, just so they can feed from the trough of the London Agreement signed by the poodles.

If When ETNZ wins, sailing wins. It's as simple as that...

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7 hours ago, echo said:

I'm sure Charleston would shit all over it self to host it.  

I can't think of a city that thinks any higher and mightier of themselves than CHS.  

Watch yourself echo. We've taken enough events from you since your boy McCrory did his magic. 

In any case, if Oracle were to win I'm sure Airbus would be happy to bring the AC to Boeing's backyard. 

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40 minutes ago, Indio said:

I hope all the so-called s-experts (sailing-experts) keep lavishing praise and servitude on Spithill and OR-XEROX, making them out as unbeatable. ETNZ will go into the Match as massive underdogs on the strength of the mainly-NH pundits' willingness to overlook the many defects of AC35, just so they can feed from the trough of the London Agreement signed by the poodles.

If When ETNZ wins, sailing wins. It's as simple as that...

The AC Match is 50/50. Everyone knows that. Nice Spin try.

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5 hours ago, Soho said:

....

  At the end of the day,  I really do not have a clue what people like LE and RC look at in determining a venue,...

 

Money from the venue to them. As much as possible.

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2 hours ago, buoy said:

Watch yourself echo. We've taken enough events from you since your boy McCrory did his magic. 

In any case, if Oracle were to win I'm sure Airbus would be happy to bring the AC to Boeing's backyard. 

Mobile, Alabama? It's where Airbus USA is based (even final-assembling jets) and the Gulf Coast (regardless of that sponsor) could be a consideration.

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18 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Money from the venue to them. As much as possible.

Seemed to be the case for San Francisco but not sure that is true about bermuda. 

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Until I read today's Royal Gazette surprise reported by bostonspider in this thread seven hours ago I'd have said with some certainty that the next match would be in Auckland or Bermuda.

The Gazette piece is worth a read.  A whiff of conspiracy theory but it hangs together.  Points to the visit by Juan Carlos to Bermuda and the team sites, the possibility of a Spanish challenge and ACWS racing in Barcelona.  Would be a nice way to rejuvenate the AC site in Barcelona of course.  And it hints that Ellison/Coutts  might reneg on their two-match commitment to Bermuda. http://www.royalgazette.com/news/article/20170613/americas-cup-unlikely-to-return-to-bermuda

Just one more reason for ETNZ to win and bring the Cup home to Auckland.

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23 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Mobile, Alabama? It's where Airbus USA is based (even final-assembling jets) and the Gulf Coast (regardless of that sponsor) could be a consideration.

BMW is located in the Upstate and is the main export out of Charleston. The Gulf Coast doesn't have enough breeze, Charleston itself only averages 9 kts on a normal afternoon during the summer. The East Coast is most likely, specifically the Northeast. I don't think Newport will ever shill out enough money for it though. 

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Hold it in the Bay of Islands I reckon. Beautiful location, superb sailing conditions.

Just tack it onto the Bay Sailing Week in late January. Teams can crash at The Duke of Marlborough ... Russell will be carnage!

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Come to think of it, B.O.I. might be kinda sensible depending how many teams show up. I can imagine Opua might like the investment for team bases etc. Plus there's heaps of unencumbered land for use as a 'natural stadium'. It wouldn't need to be built up heaps, maybe some facilities here and there, but from what I recall, most of the land around there (not including the seaside townships) is elevated and a lot of it bare.

course.JPG

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14 minutes ago, webdeveloper said:

Come to think of it, B.O.I. might be kinda sensible depending how many teams show up. I can imagine Opua might like the investment for team bases etc. Plus there's heaps of unencumbered land for use as a 'natural stadium'. It wouldn't need to be built up heaps, maybe some facilities here and there, but from what I recall, most of the land around there (not including the seaside townships) is elevated and a lot of it bare.

course.JPG

Ok so because you're a n00b I'm going to let you off with a warning.

However for future reference please be advised that the only officially endorsed colour for lines on these forums is YELLOW. 

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8 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

UAE is a northern hemisphere site, hence the matches can only take place from May 1 to October 31
(The only venue that can have AC matches outside of its hemi related months is Valencia, and we know why ;))

oh yeah, good point, forgot about that one. ;)

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8 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

UAE is a northern hemisphere site, hence the matches can only take place from May 1 to October 31
(The only venue that can have AC matches outside of its hemi related months is Valencia, and we know why ;))

That applies to DOG Matches.

From the Deed, by mutual consent:

The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may by mutual consent make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months’ notice may be waived.

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Just now, ~Stingray~ said:

That applies to DOG Matches.

From the Deed, by mutual consent:

The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may by mutual consent make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months’ notice may be waived.

Stinger! It was a joke.

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Favourites can get beaten, obviously.

Perhaps then, not surprising that it's happened for ETNZ before. Remember 1995?

Actually the parallels to 1995 are starting to get pretty scarey all we need now is for Jimmy to switch to the SBTJ boat and get whitewashed in the final for the circle to be complete.

 

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2 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Actually the parallels to 1995 are starting to get pretty scarey all we need now is for Jimmy to switch to the SBTJ boat and get whitewashed in the final for the circle to be complete.

 

That would be acceptable. ;)

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Stinger! It was a joke.

Yes, 'Dubai' is a bit of a joke but the Deed reference actually was wrong.. for just in case something that bizarre did happen.

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10 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Favourites can get beaten, obviously.

 

They can and they may. Furthermore I hope they are. I'm assuming however that if ETNZ wins, the choice of venue won't involve too much head-scratching.

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8 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Until I read today's Royal Gazette surprise reported by bostonspider in this thread seven hours ago I'd have said with some certainty that the next match would be in Auckland or Bermuda.

The Gazette piece is worth a read.  A whiff of conspiracy theory but it hangs together.  Points to the visit by Juan Carlos to Bermuda and the team sites, the possibility of a Spanish challenge and ACWS racing in Barcelona.  Would be a nice way to rejuvenate the AC site in Barcelona of course.  And it hints that Ellison/Coutts  might reneg on their two-match commitment to Bermuda. http://www.royalgazette.com/news/article/20170613/americas-cup-unlikely-to-return-to-bermuda

Just one more reason for ETNZ to win and bring the Cup home to Auckland.

The Bermudans are feeling LE gently massage the KY between their butt cheeks in preparation for a good shafting...

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As a kiwi I've been loving the timing with Bermuda hosting, I can watch the racing while getting ready for work. I think either Bermuda or B.O.I because I'm about an hour away and could probably wrangle up a boat in a few years time to watch from

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Indio said:

I hope all the so-called s-experts (sailing-experts) keep lavishing praise and servitude on Spithill and OR-XEROX, making them out as unbeatable. ETNZ will go into the Match as massive underdogs on the strength of the mainly-NH pundits' willingness to overlook the many defects of AC35, just so they can feed from the trough of the London Agreement signed by the poodles.

If When ETNZ wins, sailing wins. It's as simple as that...

Auckland 

Tear up the London puppet agreement on Facebook and YouTube live. 

Change the class to suit the venue. 

Make the class more affordable and make sailing the number one attribute required to win. 

Make nationality rules. 100% or sailors must be country of origin. 

1 nautical mile spy boat limit, no drones and no aircraft. 

No one design rubbish.

No foils. Stuff the low attention span retards. 

Ian Murray gone. 

Hold the Youth AC at the same time and make ANY television deal for the AC also televise the Youth AC right after the AC. 

Races designed to last an 60 minutes. 

If you've won it twice in a row then lost it last round, you cannot enter. 

 

 

 

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 the  reason Kiwis and  TNZ  are  such  good  sailors is this ~

go out  summers  Sat morning  on the Waitemata  , NE 6kn, crusinig

back  home  sunday pm into  30kn SW on  the nose : incoming  3kn tide,  5'  chop

deal  with it,  its  maritime mid lat  weather / not lazy continental

 but  these condn  dont  really suit   foiling  cats,  maybe  mid to late April ...  so anyway

~ Bring It On .

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What does the latest speculation in that Bermuda piece say???

11-12 venues and the Spanish and Italians in...

Miami, Bermuda, Portsmouth, Nice, Sardinia, Palma, Gothenburg, St Petersburg, Tokyo, Freemantle, Auckland

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14 hours ago, 2Newts said:

oh yeah, good point, forgot about that one. ;)

Hmmmm, when you're around I automatically think of the DoG match.
As SR mentioned, the hemi clause may not apply during MC (same as the bathtub in Kansas or the sub-Martian lake as venue/location). Both have been debated here from both sides (negotiable or not). I agree with SR that it is up to the parties to decide. Got me here, Stinger!
Anyway, Valencia is the only Venue that is legal all year round, under MC or not. Court-mandated! (God, how I love the AC!)

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16 hours ago, bostonspider said:

Bermuda a last  remaining  old  GB colony, the closest  the AC will  ever  get to  Britain ?

 

(ok,  uh well,   we all  did  vote to  retain   the union jack  on  the nz  flag ... )

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22 hours ago, EssjaywhyNZ said:

Bermuda a last  remaining  old  GB colony, the closest  the AC will  ever  get to  Britain ?

 

(ok,  uh well,   we all  did  vote to  retain   the union jack  on  the nz  flag ... )

Not all of us. Quite a few voted for John's house flag, collection of Kiwiana icons, I seem to recall.

For ourselves, it was a refusal to ditch the red ensign.

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On 14/06/2017 at 10:57 AM, rgeek said:

11-12 venues and the Spanish and Italians in..

 

So we are approaching the point in the cycle where a swathe of mythical entrants are conjured up. Happens every time.

If OR wins, with a 2 year cycle, new entrants are screwed.

If ETNZ the event is in Auckland in the wrong timezone for most of the world's markets and new entrants are also screwed.

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Tauranga Harbour.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

So we are approaching the point in the cycle where a swathe of mythical entrants are conjured up. Happens every time.

If OR wins, with a 2 year cycle, new entrants are screwed.

If ETNZ the event is in Auckland in the wrong timezone for most of the world's markets and new entrants are also screwed.

Absolutely

Commercial shomercial. There may be a fig leaf of sponsorship but the teams are still private private backing/sailor driven. Freeo and Aukland have hosted the 2 biggest ACs we've seen. Who want's to miss out on an AC in the sailing capital of the world?

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

If ETNZ the event is in Auckland in the wrong timezone for most of the world's markets and new entrants are also screwed.

If this is the F1 of sailing...................night races????

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Just to be clear, I'm now supporting ETNZ to win the Cup and run AC36 at a venue of their choice in NZ. What I don't expect is a plethora of new entrants.

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1 hour ago, EssjaywhyNZ said:

QTN is  a very interesting  prospect, but does  not have a  consistent breeze , maybe in  Springtime  tho ?

you would be ok in the spring, Wanaka more so than queenstown.  wharf and jetty infrastructure is somewhat wanting but 

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Isn't there that whole "arm of the sea thing" to preclude QTN?

Wouldn't want to go all RC when picking a venue...

 

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The "arm of the sea" clause relates to the eligibility of a club to challenge, not the course. The DoG specifies the course to be free of headlands etc but also that that section can be overridden by MC..

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Dear Kiwis a priority of any "great" venue should be eazy airport access within 30 mins to the venue.

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