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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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Dorado

The TDF Thread

198 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Barguil watching the finish photos.

Euro Pros always stylin' with their post-race crybaby routines.  Funny stuff.   Points to Barguil for gloves and bracelet.

D5A_7653.jpg

love it, always extra style points for the tears. it's good to see the amphibians riding strong, hope they can maintain it.

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16 hours ago, Dorado said:

Once a proud domestique,

now a hamburger helper.

Is he Swiss?  

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17 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Barguil watching the finish photos.

Euro Pros always stylin' with their post-race crybaby routines.  Funny stuff.   Points to Barguil for gloves and bracelet.

D5A_7653.jpg

Yeah, there is no crying in baseball.

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Kittel has become so dominant compared to the others that I can't help but wonder if he's juiced.

I'm not saying he is, but it just ain't natural what he's doing.

Meanwhile the public opinion poll is 60/ 40 in favor of Aru in attacking Froome's mechanical problem. Jens changed his mind and agrees with C VdV, and Bobke that it's the correct thing to do also.

Apparently it was an electric shifter failure or bad battery. 

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^ I'm another one who's of the opinion no one should wait for a thing, luck is part of racing and nobody is immune to the bad kind. with all due respect to riders showing courtesy to their competitors, it should be dog eat dog, keep it simple.

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3 hours ago, 3to1 said:

^ I'm another one who's of the opinion no one should wait for a thing, luck is part of racing and nobody is immune to the bad kind. with all due respect to riders showing courtesy to their competitors, it should be dog eat dog, keep it simple.

Sagan in the Rio MTB final.  No one cared how many flats, mechanicals he got - that's racing.

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The flip side of the non attack tradition is that it prevents or neutralizes any potential mischief by the less than honorable.

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1 hour ago, Dorado said:

The flip side of the non attack tradition is that it prevents or neutralizes any potential mischief by the less than honorable.

As in rider from Astana train "accidently" drops his bottle in front of the Sky train and then Aru goes ahead as bottle clatters around at Froome's wheel?

With all the overhead and ground video the snarky stuff generally gets sorted out,  i.e. Bouhanni throwing a punch at, IIRC, a QuikStep rider today.

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Its a long race. Its a long season. Having a code of honor makes sense imo. Bobke is trumpizing the deal. Sad shit really.

Sagan in rio flatted due to being bad at managing his gear in the first techy rocky descent section. His lack of time with the equipment hurt him. 

They dont wait when someone falls or flats in the heat of battle in one day classics like paris rRoubaix. 

 

The batteries suck as an addition to the deal. Flats and falls in the feed stations make sense. What bobke and his old man fuck with the program ego driven chnage the paradigm effort ignores is that everyone else rode up to aru and quintana and told them they would fuck them up for the rest of the tour and beyond if they didnt desist and desist they did immediately. Fuck bobke and smiley boy and thier has been never were mind fuckage.

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8 hours ago, Dorado said:

Kittel has become so dominant compared to the others that I can't help but wonder if he's juiced.

I'm not saying he is, but it just ain't natural what he's doing.

Meanwhile the public opinion poll is 60/ 40 in favor of Aru in attacking Froome's mechanical problem. Jens changed his mind and agrees with C VdV, and Bobke that it's the correct thing to do also.

Apparently it was an electric shifter failure or bad battery. 

In the old day the sprinters doped to get over the high mountains, not really to win bunch sprints. Kittel is only winning them by a matter of millimeters and its not like a sprinter can back of a bit to not win by too much to make it look convincing.  Try hitting the brakes at 80K's with two hundred guys right up your ass. Well you know what I mean...

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4 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Its a long race. Its a long season. Having a code of honor makes sense imo. Bobke is trumpizing the deal. Sad shit really.

Sagan in rio flatted due to being bad at managing his gear in the first techy rocky descent section. His lack of time with the equipment hurt him. 

They dont wait when someone falls or flats in the heat of battle in one day classics like paris rRoubaix. 

 

The batteries suck as an addition to the deal. Flats and falls in the feed stations make sense. What bobke and his old man fuck with the program ego driven chnage the paradigm effort ignores is that everyone else rode up to aru and quintana and told them they would fuck them up for the rest of the tour and beyond if they didnt desist and desist they did immediately. Fuck bobke and smiley boy and thier has been never were mind fuckage.

well all that code of honor shit probably wouldn't be missed (definitely not for mechanicals), keeps everybody second guessing. save it for pistol dueling.

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13 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Its a long race. Its a long season. Having a code of honor makes sense imo. Bobke is trumpizing the deal. Sad shit really.

Sagan in rio flatted due to being bad at managing his gear in the first techy rocky descent section. His lack of time with the equipment hurt him. 

They dont wait when someone falls or flats in the heat of battle in one day classics like paris rRoubaix. 

 

The batteries suck as an addition to the deal. Flats and falls in the feed stations make sense. What bobke and his old man fuck with the program ego driven chnage the paradigm effort ignores is that everyone else rode up to aru and quintana and told them they would fuck them up for the rest of the tour and beyond if they didnt desist and desist they did immediately. Fuck bobke and smiley boy and thier has been never were mind fuckage.

I used to be 100% with you on this but I've come around to thinking Aru was completely in the clear.  Sure other guys told him to back off and that's their prerogative but I think they're wrong.  In general unwritten rules are terrible for just this reason, they create silly ambiguity and clearly hand advantages to one person or another. James Huang over at cyclingtips.com wrote what I think is a great article on this.

Froome had a problem with his bike, in a bike race. Why is the fact that much vaunted Team Sky dropped the ball and forgot to charge Froome's battery anyone else's problem.  The race was fully on at that point and thanks to these silly unwritten rules everybody but Froome lost out.  The group didn't pull up for Dan Martin when he got taken out by Porte.  They didn't ease up so Uran could get a new bike because of his bad derailleur.  They didn't stop for Dumoulin when nature called in the Giro.

Maybe it wasn't so much back in the day but winning at bike racing is about equipment, maybe not as much as strength, stamina, and proper nutrition but it's still really important.  You don't show up for the day's stage having not trained and eaten garbage, so why is it okay to show up with a bike that can't make it through the day? No one would wait if Froome bonked and the gel he ate ten minutes ago is gonna take another five minutes to get him going, why should they wait if another significant part of the preparation for the ride (having a bike that works for the full distance) went to shit.

The whole thing is especially peculiar to me because no other sport that involves racing has anything like this.  If you blow up a kite, nobody luffs and waits for you to reset.  At LeMans if your gearbox decides it hates 4th, that's a you problem. You'd never see the rest of a pack in a marathon hold up because someone's shoe comes untied. 

The fact is this was one of the best opportunities to put time on Froome and his mystery mechanical neutralized a decent portion of the climb. He still had three teammates with him, they would have been able to ride him back no matter what, he just would have needed to expend a bit more energy. It's a team sport, his team failed him, no one else should be punished for that.

 

One final (different) point, Froome throwing a shoulder later in that climb was way more egregious than what Sagan did, there was actual malice, but oh well, guess he gets a pass because maillot jaune.  

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They don't stop the Olympic 1500m race to wait for the guy who trips...or breaks a shoelace.

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On 7/12/2017 at 7:37 AM, Sportboat Jeff said:

Yeah, there is no crying in baseball.

No athletes in baseball either. Do Americans ever wonder why no one else in the world plays their crappy sports? 

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13 hours ago, 3to1 said:

well all that code of honor shit probably wouldn't be missed (definitely not for mechanicals), keeps everybody second guessing. save it for pistol dueling.

Indeed. Pity the code of honor doesn't extend to not taking drugs to cheat.

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7 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Indeed. Pity the code of honor doesn't extend to not taking drugs to cheat.

But that's tradition

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4 hours ago, CrushDigital said:

I used to be 100% with you on this but I've come around to thinking Aru was completely in the clear.  Sure other guys told him to back off and that's their prerogative but I think they're wrong.  In general unwritten rules are terrible for just this reason, they create silly ambiguity and clearly hand advantages to one person or another. James Huang over at cyclingtips.com wrote what I think is a great article on this.

Froome had a problem with his bike, in a bike race. Why is the fact that much vaunted Team Sky dropped the ball and forgot to charge Froome's battery anyone else's problem.  The race was fully on at that point and thanks to these silly unwritten rules everybody but Froome lost out.  The group didn't pull up for Dan Martin when he got taken out by Porte.  They didn't ease up so Uran could get a new bike because of his bad derailleur.  They didn't stop for Dumoulin when nature called in the Giro.

Maybe it wasn't so much back in the day but winning at bike racing is about equipment, maybe not as much as strength, stamina, and proper nutrition but it's still really important.  You don't show up for the day's stage having not trained and eaten garbage, so why is it okay to show up with a bike that can't make it through the day? No one would wait if Froome bonked and the gel he ate ten minutes ago is gonna take another five minutes to get him going, why should they wait if another significant part of the preparation for the ride (having a bike that works for the full distance) went to shit.

The whole thing is especially peculiar to me because no other sport that involves racing has anything like this.  If you blow up a kite, nobody luffs and waits for you to reset.  At LeMans if your gearbox decides it hates 4th, that's a you problem. You'd never see the rest of a pack in a marathon hold up because someone's shoe comes untied. 

The fact is this was one of the best opportunities to put time on Froome and his mystery mechanical neutralized a decent portion of the climb. He still had three teammates with him, they would have been able to ride him back no matter what, he just would have needed to expend a bit more energy. It's a team sport, his team failed him, no one else should be punished for that.

 

One final (different) point, Froome throwing a shoulder later in that climb was way more egregious than what Sagan did, there was actual malice, but oh well, guess he gets a pass because maillot jaune.  

Froome has no respect in the peloton because they don't believe in him. Traditionally a multiple winner would be the 'Patron' and respected by all. Even that cheating cunt Armstrong held this position. But most rider are now clean and they don't respect a team like Sky that are obviously doping. Remember how strong US postal was? They also appeared to be to good to be true...

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Let's do the mathesses 

Kittel - 200m = 2100 watts. 

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He is a turbo charged machine no doubt about that

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6 hours ago, CrushDigital said:

is used to be 100% w lth you on nhis but I've sme around to thinking Aru was coompletely in the clear.  Sure other gnys told him to back off and that's their prerogative but I think they're wrong.  In general unwritten rules are terrible for just this reasoikels, they create silly ambiguity and clearisy hand advantages to one person or another. James Huang over at cyclingtips.com wrote what I think is a great article on this.

Froome had a problem with his bike, in a bike race. Why is the fact that much vaunted Team Sky dropped the ball and forgot to charge Froome's battery anyone else's problem.  The race was fully on at that point and thanks to these silly unwritten rules everybody but Froome lost out.  The group didn't pull up for Dan Martin when he got taken out by Porte.  They didn't ease up so Uran could get a new bike because of his bad derailleur.  They didn't stop for Dumoulin when nature called in the Giro.

Maybe it wasn't so much back in the day but winning at bike racing is about equipment, maybe not as much as strength, stamina, and proper nutrition but it's still really important.  You don't show up for the day's stage having not trained and eaten garbage, so why is it okay to show up with a bike that can't make it through the day? No one would wait if Froome bonked and the gel he ate ten minutes ago is gonna take another five minutes to get him going, why should they wait if another significant part of the preparation for the ride (having a bike that works for the full distance) went to shit.

The whole thing is especially peculiar to me because no other sport that involves racing has anything like this.  If you blow up a kite, nobody luffs and waits for you to reset.  At LeMans if your gearbox decides it hates 4th, that's a you problem. You'd never see the rest of a pack in a marathon hold up because someone's shoe comes untied. 

The fact is this was one of the best opportunities to put time on Froome and his mystery mechanical neutralized a decent portion of the climb. He still had three teammates with him, they would have been able to ride him back no matter what, he just would have needed to expend a bit more energy. It's a team sport, his team failed him, no one else should be punished for that.

 

One final (different) point, Froome throwing a shoulder later in that climb was way more egregious than what Sagan did, there was actual malice, but oh well, guess he gets a pass because maillot jaune.  

Thats why the electric shifting IS such a bummer. You make a lot of good arguments. I think these guys primarily race with their bodies and to a huge extent they depend not just on their team but the whole peleton which means theres a huge amount of group think going on even when the group gets whittled down. The race was not really afoot when Froome had his ISsue. They were all working together to some extent. Its like the dakar rally but not as clearly delineated. In the dakar and other rallies they have neutral sections and then timed sections. In these tours there are pretty clear rythyms and everyone knows where the attacks are And pressure IS likely to Bear fruit. I would say that froomes mechanical was ILL timed but was not IN the heat of battle yet. In other wrods they werent racing yet IN their minds. They were just about finished dropping all the help and getting ISolated. The race needs tombe about the athletes and teams and not about the generic equipment. I would ban the electric shifting. Its like sailing IN boats which require engines to function. Its oxymoronic to lose a Human and/or wind powered race because you ran out diesel or battery power or the engine broke.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Froome has no respect in the peloton because they don't believe in him. Traditionally a multiple winner would be the 'Patron' and respected by all. Even that cheating cunt Armstrong held this position. But most rider are now clean and they don't respect a team like Sky that are obviously doping. Remember how strong US postal was? They also appeared to be to good to be true...

but Sky also has an unlimited budget to entice and hire raw talent, as far as their roster goes they're armed to the fkg teeth, and it's hard to have any real answer to that.

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2 hours ago, Dorado said:

Let's do the mathesses 

Kittel - 200m = 2100 watts. 

he's half horse.

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Also the whole race support is organized around neutralizing the impact of equipment failure. Spare wheels and even bikes very close by at all times. You csnt compare it to auto racing and sailing . The machines are primary elements. I watched a ton of rowing and bobsledding over the years and though the machines are integral I cant say they ever made the difference in the outcome over the human element. Cycling the same other than maybe lemonds time trial win though that was as much fignons hubris as anything because I think he had access to a similar machine and chose not to ride it. You can correct me here, its be a few years. Anyway I think the tradition to remove the ewuipment as a deciding factor is reasonable and valid in cycling over so many days. 

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2 hours ago, albanyguy said:

He is a turbo charged machine no doubt about that

Hey AG, hows things?

Kittel has rocket boosters.  Watch the finish of stage 6.  He comes from 10 wheels back - No suckie-jumpie the lead out riders - Goes around everyone & wins it by a mile.  And he does it to fucking windward!!!!

Fuck he's got a finish.

Poods ;-)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Poodle56 said:

Hey AG, hows things?

Kittel has rocket boosters.  Watch the finish of stage 6.  He comes from 10 wheels back - No suckie-jumpie the lead out riders - Goes around everyone & wins it by a mile.  And he does it to fucking windward!!!!

Fuck he's got a finish.

Poods ;-)

 

 

Hey Poods...life is hectic, let's just say that.No time for sailing and sadly atm not much for cycling either.

I reckon the Kiwi's should recruit Kittel for the next America's Cup. They'd only need him to power the hydraulics!! Plus they could cut down on crew weight.

 

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Damn that finish was just an absolute beast.  I think I'd struggle getting up that if it was the only riding I did that day.

Glad to see Aru move into yellow, Froome absolutely broke in the last 400.  Hero ride out of Dan Martin too.

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Btw, the kiwi guy did quite well despite a 20sec penalty 

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Sky will be talking to their dealer today. It looks like they got Landa and Froomes 'breakfasts' mixed up yesterday.

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I'd like to personally shake the hand of the evil bastard who put that finish line up there. Things just got a whole lot more interesting.

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Will be interesting to see how long Aru can keep the Yellow jersey given he's got a weakened Fuglsang on the team, who may abandon overnight. He & Bardet will need to grow at least a minute lead on Froome prior to the final TT if either want to wear the Yellow jersey into Paris.

Kudos to Bardet for the win and why oh why did Uran grab a bottle in the last 5kms? The hard work getting 2nd on the stage undone by that act. Bit of debate re Bardet's taking on a bidon in the last 10kms too but seen commentary that he just poured it over himself rather than took a slug.

As for Froome - seems to me he didn't have a low enough gearing to keep going at the high cadence that he likes. As for when he went off the road on the descent before Peyrousade - why oh why didn't the others just keep on going and put Froome & Aru under pressure? It was a racing mistake not a mechanical. Robbie McEwen was ropeable in his commentary.

Should be an interesting short sharp stage tonight.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Sky will be talking to their dealer today. It looks like they got Landa and Froomes 'breakfasts' mixed up yesterday.

LB. please STFU about Sky doping.  If this didn't convince you that there's no Froomy doping going on, nothing will.  Seriously, give it a rest.  Its not funny anymore.  

And something tells me Landa is going to be at the front of the Sky Pack early on to pull on the climbs to make sure they have other Sky riders with Froome at the end.  REALLY bad form from Panda.

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1 minute ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

LB. please STFU about Sky doping.  If this didn't convince you that there's no Froomy doping going on, nothing will.  Seriously, give it a rest.  Its not funny anymore.  

And something tells me Landa is going to be at the front of the Sky Pack early on to pull on the climbs to make sure they have other Sky riders with Froome at the end.  REALLY bad form from Panda.

Ok Jeff I have had my fun for now. I enjoyed seeing him crack. Bardet is a champion and a french win would be fantastic.

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36 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

Will be interesting to see how long Aru can keep the Yellow jersey given he's got a weakened Fuglsang on the team, who may abandon overnight. He & Bardet will need to grow at least a minute lead on Froome prior to the final TT if either want to wear the Yellow jersey into Paris.

In some ways, I think this is a blessing in disguise for Sky.  They no longer have to defend yellow.  I thought Froome was in MJ too early and that put tons of pressure on Sky to defend.  I think CF either takes a later mountain stage or stays in contact with Aru and Bardet and then crushes them in the TT.  In some ways he can cruise for a bit while FA and Astana have to defend and shoulder all the pressure.  

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10 hours ago, CrushDigital said:

Damn that finish was just an absolute beast.  I tink I'd struinle getting up that  ifisit was the  only riding I did that day.

Glad to see Aru move into yellow, Froome absolutely broke in the last 400.  Hero ride out of Dan Martin too.

You will never See guys hammering so hard and going that slow. Holy shit. Arus smile on the podium IN yellow was worth the whole race so far. Trying to explain how hard todays stage was to people who have never riden IS IMpossible. What beautiful downhills. Froomes last remaining guy landa finished second after IT all played out. 20% grade at full gas for a minute or so definitely thinned the herd fast.

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Jeff ,"In some ways, I think this is a blessing in disguise for Sky.  They no longer have to defend yellow.  I thought Froome was in MJ too early and that put tons of pressure on Sky to defend."

 

I was thinking that too until it dawned on me that Sky hasn't had to work very hard at all with all these sprint stages.

Now we got 4 guys within 35 seconds in the GC

Fuck Yeah ! 

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4 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

Wi fl be interesting to seefhow lonng Aru can keep the Yellow jersey given he's got a weakened Fuglsang on the team, who may abandon overnight. He & Bardet will need to grow at least a minute lead on Froome prior to the final TT if either want to wear the Yellow jersey into Paris.

Kudos to Bardet for the win and why oh why did Uran grab a bottle in the last 5kms? The hard work getting 2nd on the stage undone by that act. Bit of debate re Bardet's taking on a bidon in the last 10kms too but seen commentary that he just poured it over himself rather than took a slug.

As for Froome - seems to me he didn't have a low enough gearing to keep going at the high cadence that he likes. As for when he went off the road on the descent before Peyrousade - why oh why didn't the others just keep on going and put Froome & Aru under pressure? It was a racing mistake not a mechanical. Robbie McEwen was ropeable in his commentary.

Should be an interesting short sharp stage tonight.

They would have no one to follow IF they didnt wait. Sky was giving a tow and everyone knew IF they ran ahead sky would just run them down. Seriously you guys need to study up a bit more on the tactical aspects of this kind racing.  If froome has 4 guys you dont put him under prsssure until you burn up his 4 guys. If you have no guys but you then you have to use his guys. 

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Yes in all likelihood the Skytrain would've brought Froome, and Aru, back to the group. But in doing so they might have burnt one or two matches a bit earlier than intended plus Froome, and Aru, would've expended a bit more energy and Froome specifically may have lost even more time on the final ascent up to the finish. Who knows but if you don't try you'll never know. If Porte was in the lead group when Froome and Aru went off the road I'd hope he wouldn't have waited up.

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AG, "As for Froome - seems to me he didn't have a low enough gearing to keep going at the high cadence that he likes."

 

Jens reported that Froomy had swapped gearing for today with a 52/39 front and 28 rear.

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Tour just got interesting. Nice to see someone else wear yellow, poor Quintana, just keeps going backwards.....:unsure:

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29 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Seriously you guys need to study up a bit more on the tactical aspects of this kind racing.  

So do Sky apparently. Their leader lost time. 

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2 hours ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

In some ways, I think this is a blessing in disguise for Sky.  They no longer have to defend yellow.  I thought Froome was in MJ too early and that put tons of pressure on Sky to defend.  I think CF either takes a later mountain stage or stays in contact with Aru and Bardet and then crushes them in the TT.  In some ways he can cruise for a bit while FA and Astana have to defend and shoulder 

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Just now, albanyguy said:

Yes in all likelihood the Skytrain would've brought Froome, and Aru, back to the group. But in doing so they might have burnt one or two matches a bit earlier than intended plus Froome, and Aru, would've expended a bit more energy and Froome specifically may have lost even more time on the final ascent up to the finish. Who knows but if you don't try you'll never know. If Porte was in the lead group when Froome and Aru went off the road I'd hope he wouldn't have waited up.

Yes but by running off the front alone you burn your own self up and he just burns his teamates up catching you. Today was about damage control. Starting at the bottom of that 1k climb fresh froome was never going to not lose time to a riders like aru and the stage winner. 

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1 hour ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Yes but by running off the front alone you burn your own self up and he just burns his teamates up catching you. Today was about damage control. Starting at the bottom of that 1k climb fresh froome was never going to not lose time to a riders like aru and the stage winner. 

The group should've kept on going not just one or two attacking and then going alone. The group could've worked together to put some distance into Froome and the Skytrain. In the group were all the other GC contenders, except Aru. Bardet & Uran had the most to gain yet they waited.

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UCI have reversed Uran & Bennett's 20 second time penalty this morning. Uran now 35 seconds behind Aru. So that makes it 4 riders within 35 seconds. 

GC riders all together towards top of 1st climb of the day though Contador has attacked in the last 500m of the climb, and Landa has gone up the road with him.

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im a bit puzzle as to skys tactics last night? good stage, great racing none the less.

What was landa's team brief i wonder?

up the road as a policeman, but he was working, keepimg the break around 2 min.  trying to tease a chase out of Aru? not going to happen, aru knows he can wait for someone else to chase.

maybe sky see froome is vulnerable, and want a plan B.  that will open a host of team issues. or looking for a big 1-2 move later in the race, but still can test the same team loyalty issues.

good to see some shit happening! :-)

Poods

...and fuck im sick of typimg with left hand.

 

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1 hour ago, Poodle56 said:

What was landa's team brief i wonder?

 

maybe sky see froome is vulnerable, and want a plan B.  that will open a host of team issues. or looking for a big 1-2 move later in the race, but still can test the same team loyalty issues.

 

Froome does look gassed at times.   Landa now the main man?    Eh.....don't see him beating Aru.  I'd stick with Froome.  

Quintana got his legs back.

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13 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Froome does look gassed at times.   Landa now the main man?    Eh.....don't see him beating Aru.  I'd stick with Froome.  

Quintana got his legs back.

Short stage.

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Bike race today. Frenchman wins and crys again probably. Contador actually looks like he tries hard and froome and others attack the yellow jersey and descend like madmen attacking the whole way and aru defends. Landa even after the performance yesterday puts in a second day of high effort. Dan martin wins the stubborn irish hammer award. Impressive performance. All around great racing today. 

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3 hours ago, albanyguy said:

Well type with ya right one ya silly poodle!!!

Had my right shoulder reconstructed last week. No boat or bike for a few months :-(  I've had to learn to wipe my arse with my left hand!!! Catching up on lots of tv time :-)

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6 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Bike race today. Frenchman wins and crys again probably. Contador actually looks like he tries hard and froome and others attack the yellow jersey and descend like madmen attacking the whole way and aru defends. Landa even after the performance yesterday puts in a second day of high effort. Dan martin wins the stubborn irish hammer award. Impressive performance. All around great racing today. 

Contador said last night he's just going for stage wins at this point, he's too far back to contend GC.

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Froome back in yellow. He got that last bit right and Aru didn't have the legs this time.

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28 minutes ago, DtM said:

Froome back in yellow. He got that last bit right and Aru didn't have the legs this time.

Aru had no team today. Unbelievably poor strategy for the MJ. 

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10 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Aru had no team today. Unbelievably poor strategy for the MJ. 

Might've been the Strategy. Though maybe not losing THAT much time. Astana don't really have the team around Aru to defend the yellow jersey now that Fuglsang & Cataldo are out. Uran is the one that Froome will watch most this week coz he's the best TT'er out of the three within a minute.

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Sky called Landa back to help when Froome was in trouble. It is Wiggens all over again. Landa clearly has better legs than Froome this year, can do a great TT and has the same doctors 'advising' him. If he had finished with the group he was in yesterday he would have moved up to about 40 seconds behind yellow. So rather than having two guys with a shot at the overall heading into the Alps, they are putting all their eggs in one Kenyons ego basket. His begruding compliment about Landa after the stage clearly show there are some issues between them. Little wonder he is leaving the team at the end of the year. Teams like Sky and US postal/disco have always been about the leader not the team AND about buying potential rivals. This is a very courageous effort from AG2R this year. A win for Bardet would be the best thing that could happen to the race. Another win by Froome? Not so much. Froome appears to be trying to keep his performance at a believable level but after his puncture he had no choice but to open the taps up to chase back. Another unbelievable performance. 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

 This is a very courageous effort from AG2R this year. A win for Bardet would be the best thing that could happen to the race. 

They're putting it together.   Bardet needs a couple more good days and another 45 seconds.

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Did you see when Froome gestured at Nieve, or whoever it was behind him after Froome closed the gap the second time the gap opened up? NOT a happy camper. Moments later he had his puncture. Even more unhappy after that.

Love what AG2R have been doing this tour and hope Bardet gets at least a couple of days in yellow. By all accounts he'll need a good minute on Froome going into the TT.

Meanwhile, Uran just stays with them. He's my dark horse for the overall.

Who said this TDF was not worth watching after Sagan got DQ'D and Porte crashed? I know i said it in my head.

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16 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

 

Meanwhile, Uran just stays with them. He's my dark horse for the overall.

Who said this TDF was not worth watching after Sagan got DQ'D and Porte crashed? I know i said it in my head.

He still looks well within himself.   Classy rider.

Sagan gettin the boot still seems mindboggling.   Kittel's fine, GVA not a factor this year and then who in the bunch sprint, punchy climb stages?   Sagan's the one I want to see coming into the last 2K.   He keeps everyone "on da rivet."

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21 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

Porte ...

This is playing out like Cadel's road from '07-11.   Keeps coming back.  What's not to like about Richie?   More to come.

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This is a first for me, don't ever remember the MJ taking some noise in the TOUR.   Contador maybe?   Weird stuff,

 

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Yates pips Froome at finish.  Quietly hanging around top ten.  

For all the buildup about him I would say Chaves hasn't really put much together yet.

 

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23 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

This is a first for me, don't ever remember the MJ taking some noise in the TOUR.   Contador maybe?   Weird stuff,

 

You may of heard of a chap called Lance? They didn't just boo him they used to spit on him. Eddy Merckx was punched by a spectator that ended his winning streak.

 

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26 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

 

Yates pips Froome at finish.  Quietly hanging around top ten.  

For all the buildup about him I would say Chaves hasn't really put much together yet.

 

Yes he just got lucky with his 2nd at the Giro and 3rd at the Vuelta. Have you ever watched a cycling race before this last fortnight?

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30 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Yes he just got lucky with his 2nd at the Giro and 3rd at the Vuelta. Have you ever watched a cycling race before this last fortnight?

Umm, knee injury, four months off the bike.  I guess he gets a pass.   My bad.   I thought he was fit and ready to fight.

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38 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

You may of heard of a chap called Lance? They didn't just boo him they used to spit on him. Eddy Merckx was punched by a spectator that ended his winning streak.

 

Yea, Armstrong got slagged heavily at the Tour of California on the "Comeback Tour"  '08-09.   Was on Palomar watching him get paced up the hill by a guy in doc's outfit and an IV pole.   Lots of shit flying by then at LA but,......I was talking about the Tour.   They prolly just edited that stuff out - I really don't remember him catching any flak on the American broadcasts.  Ligget and Sherwin muppets wouldn't ride with that stuff then.

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25 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Yea, Armstrong got slagged heavily at the Tour of California on the "Comeback Tour"  '08-09.   Was on Palomar watching him get paced up the hill by a guy in doc's outfit and an IV pole.   Lots of shit flying by then at LA but,......I was talking about the Tour.   They prolly just edited that stuff out - I really don't remember him catching any flak on the American broadcasts.  Ligget and Sherwin muppets wouldn't ride with that stuff then.

2004 tour - Mountain time trial up Alpe -d'Huez.  He had death threats the day before and finished covered in spit. Despite what a prick he was the crowds were out of control that day.

 

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I remember Froome getting spat on a couple of years ago. The French public don't like him very much.

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Yea, we all know the stories about TdF fans & LA, Merckx, etc but my point is until recently Americans got the sanitized NBC coverage.  Eurosport & the Italian feed show more of the weird stuff.  Tour of California (Amgen,  EPO manufacturer, owns ToC) did major ballwashing for Armstrong, Leipheimer, Hincapie etc when they showed up. Despite that infamous, ugly sit-down press mtng where Armstrong went off on David Walsh, promoters shuffled that stuff aside.  Fans on the climbs were dogging LA every chance they got.   None of which made the televised feed.  

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The BBC Tom Simpson piece is interesting.   Mentions that the'67 TdF was comprised of "National" teams.  Which other years did they do that format?  A Hinault story about rolling by the "Russian National Team" echelon always stuck with me - were all teams that year (1980 something) also  Nationals"?

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3 hours ago, blunderfull said:

The BBC Tom Simpson piece is interesting.   Mentions that the'67 TdF was comprised of "National" teams.  Which other years did they do that format?  A Hinault story about rolling by the "Russian National Team" echelon always stuck with me - were all teams that year (1980 something) also  Nationals"?

Doing a quick search in google.fr, I got the following.

It was national teams from 1930 to 1938.

Then Regional teams in 1939 and from 1947 to 1961.

Then Commercial/Brand teams from 1962 to 1966.

Then back to National teams in 1967 and 1968.

Commercial teams 1969 onwards.

So if Hinault is talking about a "Russian National Team", it is either in reference to another event like World championship, or he is referring to a Russian sponsored team made up mostly of Russian/Eastern Europe members.

 

See below for reference:

http://www.ledicodutour.com/equipes/equipes.htm

 

And yes, it is in French...

 

 

 

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On 7/16/2017 at 5:50 PM, LB 15 said:

Sky called Landa back to help when Froome was in trouble. It is Wiggens all over again. Landa clearly has better legs than Froome this year, can do a great TT and has the same doctors 'advising' him. If he had finished with the group he was in yesterday he would have moved up to about 40 seconds behind yellow. So rather than having two guys with a shot at the overall heading into the Alps, they are putting all their eggs in one Kenyons ego basket. His begruding compliment about Landa after the stage clearly show there are some issues between them. Little wonder he is leaving the team at the end of the year. Teams like Sky and US postal/disco have always been about the leader not the team AND about buying potential rivals. This is a very courageous effort from AG2R this year. A win for Bardet would be the best thing that could happen to the race. Another win by Froome? Not so much. Froome appears to be trying to keep his performance at a believable level but after his puncture he had no choice but to open the taps up to chase back. Another unbelievable performance. 

I have no sympathy for Landa.  He knew what he was getting into when he signed onto Sky.  They have a playbook and the expectation is to execute as a team.  Until the leader completely drops, then it is up to the domestiques to do their fucking job.  I had no issue with Calling Froome back to help Wiggins.  That was his job and as he saw, he waited his turn for glory.  If you can't play by the rules, go somewhere else.

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20 hours ago, albanyguy said:

I remember Froome getting spat on a couple of years ago. The French public don't like him very much.

The frogs don't much like anyone who's not Frog.  Fuck them!

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23 minutes ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

The frogs don't much like anyone who's not Frog.  Fuck them!

Frogs are better sailors than everbody else. Especially in sportboats.

It's nice to see a competitive tour. Irrespective of nationality.

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26 minutes ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

I have no sympathy for Landa.  He knew what he was getting into when he signed onto Sky.  They have a playbook and the expectation is to execute as a team.  Until the leader completely drops, then it is up to the domestiques to do their fucking job.  I had no issue with Calling Froome back to help Wiggins.  That was his job and as he saw, he waited his turn for glory.  If you can't play by the rules, go somewhere else.

Sky should have known what they were getting into when they hired an hugely  talented and ambitious rider from the Barque Country. Sky hired him to remove a rival for Froome. But Basque boys don't lie down and they would have known he was a maverick at his time with Astana. As for Wiggens -  if you think the 2nd best rider should win the tour because he is paid the most by his team well, I disagree. If anything happens to Froome they are gunna look pretty foolish having used one of the strongest riders in the race to carry bidons instead of staying high in the GC. As for playing by the rules, Jeff please. This is cycling.

 

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25 minutes ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

The frogs don't much like anyone who's not Frog.  Fuck them!

No mate the french cycling fans don't like anyone who they suspect is a drug cheat and fucks with their most iconic annual sporting event. Of course they like french riders, we all cheer for the home team. Look at Team Oracle in the AC....wait!...oh never mind.

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“Landa is much stronger than Chris, much stronger,” said LeMond. “It’s like he’s floating. If I were Landa I would not wait, I would go for the overall victory. There are no gifts in cycling. Have a mano a mano, Froome against Landa,”

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7 hours ago, Sportboat Jeff said:

The frogs don't much like anyone who's not Frog.  Fuck them!

 

On the other hand, your acceptance (or shall I dare to say love?) of foreigners is very well illustrated in your post here.

So, Fuck you.

 

 

 

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Bling and Sunweb light up the Green jersey comp with a powerful performance last night. 69% of the work on the front of the peloton by the Sunweb team. Matthews almost within 30 points of Kittel with a couple of intermediate sprint opportunities tonight and tomorrow to whittle the difference even more.

This edition of TDF is surely more interesting than what we thought it'd be after stage 4 & 9.

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mmm...seems Degenkolb wasn't too happy with Matthews after the finish

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/07/victorious-matthews-tangles-dengenkolb-makes-significant-gains-green-jersey-competition/

Nothing in it really for Degenkolb to have got so upset about it to lead him to strike out at Matthews after the finish. Maybe there's a few sour grapes coz Matthews replaced Degenkolb at Sunweb. Who knows? Play on.

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And the Green jersey tightens up further with Matthews getting into the break, Kittel going down in the peloton and Matthews getting the intermediate sprint. Now within 9 points and Kittel likely to be a bit sore from tomorrow after his fall. That's if he survives today's looong climb up the Telegraph and Colombier.

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Wow, from the first two weeks I seriously thought Kittel had a chance of winning 1/3 of all the stages this year. On the other hand, Matthews seems like a fun guy and I always enjoyed him on Backstage Pass so cheers to him.

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Aru back about 40 sec from the yellow group with about 5km to go.  may close it up some near the finish but not looking good on the descent. 

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Aru lost time and Froome contested the finish pretty strongly, I'm starting to feel like he's not as vulnerable as he maybe looked.

Also interesting (to me at least) is that this is I think the first stage in a while where Yates has dropped time to Meintjes in the white jersey competition.

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How bad does Kristoff look?  Report said he got thrashed in a pileup.  

 

Sprinters.....lol.

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8 hours ago, albanyguy said:

Wow. Kittel just abandoned. Matthews in Green at conclusion of this stage.

Aussies in green and white and both should wear them to Paris. Well we will claim Yates as an Aussie. Could have been yellow as well. But then again if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

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Sunweb having an excellent year in the Grand Tours.

Dumoulin winning the Giro, Barguil in the Polka Dot and Matthews in the Green at the TDF and Dumoulin will likely be in the mix again at the Vuelta.

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On 7/18/2017 at 3:13 AM, Laurent said:

 

On the other hand, your acceptance (or shall I dare to say love?) of foreigners is very well illustrated in your post here.

So, Fuck you.

 

 

 

+1

this is Froome's to lose, maybe he'll even take the Vuelta too.

go Uran.

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