Recommended Posts

Viper 830 vs pocket rocket 22 vs melges 24 vs martin 243 vs martin 241:

Where I race it's generally light conditons for 9/12 months but during the winter racing season it's 20+ knots. Any suggestions on a good all round sport boat that can race in both conditions.2016-miami-melges-24-world-championship-day-2_31230364651_o.thumb.jpg.4ca8c68daf2d46aa22e4f85a5f28a3b6.jpgpicmartin243101a.jpg.406c664f25335dfeb2ad5c393cb53505.jpgpicrocket22101a.jpg.2a1a8e6739964eec1925c8f40d64b33a.jpg594843fb89694_pocketrocket221.jpg.8bbc05d6d6c89a90d3e2851ae1025591.jpgdownload.jpeg.0a6d7a08bbdc9e451226df83694fc847.jpegViper830_400x200.gif.58174e9f54a396c3c31e72c38cc0460c.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Handicap racing, or one design?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Farr25: Flying in the breeze, but also doing very well in the light. Hull1 became second in 2015's ORC Sportboat Europeans that saw some heavy breeze and some very light winds. In last year's Bol d'Or in Switzerland Hull5 was beating many many larger boats and finished in the 30s (sailed time) out of 500 boats. The race was mostly in very light winds. I just bought Hull4 and I am mega happy with it. In our first sportboat race we faced a really good crowd of ex Olympic sailors, a Melges32 team and some other good teams. In the 20 boat fleet we immediately (and totally undeserved) secured 5th place, despite having the boat for very little time and being a totally new team on the block. 

Given the very recent price and the low maintain efforts (crew between 4 to 5 people) this boat is a budget grand prix racer. 7 boats racing now in Turkey, Australia, Switzerland and Germany. 

As far as I know the manufacturer has 2 hulls ready right now and would be willing to give a US discount to get a boat over. Just let me know, if I can help? 

Doing well in the light too... 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best for what? How small is small (assuming you want to consider all boats in this genre)?  One Design or PHRF or both?  How many crew can you count on to show up for every race?  How comfortable are you under a kite in big wind? Will it be strictly for buoy racing or do you want some pleasure sailing or even overnighting? Are you going to trailer it to regional races?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy/Race what everyone else races or you will sail alone.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget the Pocket , go with the Rocket 22.

We fly XL5 , hull # 3, and are really happy with our results . Easy to sail with a crew of 3.

There are only 16 built so it takes a while to figure on your own its best settings and how to sail it , but once you get it , you should be ahead of J70s for a fraction of the price ( with more creature confort).

Too bad you can not race one design but with a PHRF of between 111 and 114 , you should be competitive.

The usual improvements made by owners include traveler system , square top main and Phil's cassette/rudder ( which in our case made the biggest difference).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin 243. It's the fastest, and most comfortable to sail. No silly, legs over hiking and you stay dry out on the racks. Great in PHRF, good in light wind, and very fun downwind in heavy air. 

We've made a lot of improvements to our boat over the winter but thinking of selling after the summer to move on to the next project. If you are interested let me know. PM me if you would like to talk.

DSC_0306 - Copy.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd get whatever is most common where you sail unless you plan to travel with the boat but...

As the market continues to shrink, especially for race boats, I'd be thinking about resale. According to http://sailboatdata.com/, only about 14-15 Viper 830's, Martins, and Rocket 22's were built - that makes them all "orphans." So while you should be able to buy any of them for a song, it will be difficult if not impossible to resell. At least 850 Melges 24's have been built and they're active all over the world, so I'd be leaning heavily toward the Melges 24. YMMV

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, MidPack said:

I'd get whatever is most common where you sail unless you plan to travel with the boat but...

As the market continues to shrink, especially for race boats, I'd be thinking about resale. According to http://sailboatdata.com/, only about 14-15 Viper 830's, Martins, and Rocket 22's were built - that makes them all "orphans." So while you should be able to buy any of them for a song, it will be difficult if not impossible to resell. At least 850 Melges 24's have been built and they're active all over the world, so I'd be leaning heavily toward the Melges 24. YMMV

 

There's always a market for cool, fast boats - supply and demand does come into play. The M24's are so spread out, the concentrations of them in any one place is relatively small, relegating most as PHRF "orphans" anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the boats mentioned - the Viper 830 is the absolute best light air sportboat you can get (we can usually sail it to about a 0-15 PHRF rating in very light and sometimes to a -30 rating) - and it is quite quick in a breeze too (but requires more skill)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Christian said:

Of all the boats mentioned - the Viper 830 is the absolute best light air sportboat you can get (we can usually sail it to about a 0-15 PHRF rating in very light and sometimes to a -30 rating) - and it is quite quick in a breeze too (but requires more skill)

Impressive

What's it rate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/21/2017 at 3:30 PM, USA389 said:

There's always a market for cool, fast boats - supply and demand does come into play.

Harder to sell the 10-20 year old esoteric cool fast boats than you imply 

There is always a market for a one-design. You can always find an owner at the right price for a 15 year old Viper 640 or a 15 year old Melges 24 but if you get an esoteric, make sure that it is something you want to own for a very long time.

That said.....there are some very cool esoteric boats out there if you are ready to depreciate to zero. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, You are in BC? There's 3 Rocket 22's for sale (advertised or not) between Victoria, Golden and Calgary.  Very fun sport boat with cool tuning pieces (e.g. mast jack, double spreader) and much more comfortable to race than a Melges 24 and much less expensive than a J70.  And a roomier cockpit than either for daysailing.   I've been racing mine (#5) on OK Lake a couple times a year, may do WIRW next year.  Good PHRF activity in region but would be great to have all 4 Western Canada Rockets regularly on a start line.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2017 at 5:52 AM, TBone said:

Impressive

What's it rate?

Depending on location from 60-72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i550?:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are a couple i550's for sale in the Portland and the PNW. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/18/2017 at 3:01 PM, swangtang said:

OP have you seen the M243 for sale in Van on craigslist?

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/d/martin-243-and-trailer/6248140508.html

He has a picture of it in his OP.

 

I would get the M243.  I dont have a good reason or a logical explanation. It just looks the sexiest......and for $9,750...what the hell, might as well have fun while alive!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Matthew Stranaghan said:

Thanks for all the great responses guys!

what did you buy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2017 at 7:59 AM, Mambo Kings said:

Harder to sell the 10-20 year old esoteric cool fast boats than you imply 

There is always a market for a one-design. You can always find an owner at the right price for a 15 year old Viper 640 or a 15 year old Melges 24 but if you get an esoteric, make sure that it is something you want to own for a very long time.

That said.....there are some very cool esoteric boats out there if you are ready to depreciate to zero. 

Actually that's not always true - My V830 actually appreciated when the insurance company "bought" it at agreed value after it got hit by lightning and totaled :rolleyes:

 

Still have some of the sail inventory and various bits if anybody are interested.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you checked out the Fareast 23r? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2018 at 9:07 AM, Sail4beer said:

Have you checked out the Fareast 23r? 

Love mine... I believe you need a bunch of crew for the Viper... we seem to do OK with 4 on the 23R... 241 isn't in the same bracket as even the PR22 nevermind the Rocket 22. I had a PR22 and test sailed a Rocket22... big difference obviously so as great a boat as the PR22 is for it's day, it's also a performance rung down from the rest of your list. 

23R lit up.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can buy one of these used for low $20ks....simple program , excellent construction, strong and quick. Needless to say super fun. Crew needed: 2-3 total.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya, looks great... i remember when i used to have abs... now I'm happy to go fast without killing myself... old age rears it's ugly head!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2017 at 7:59 AM, Mambo Kings said:

There is always a market for a one-design. You can always find an owner at the right price for a 15 year old Viper 640 or a 15 year old Melges 24 but if you get an esoteric, make sure that it is something you want to own for a very long time.

That said.....there are some very cool esoteric boats out there if you are ready to depreciate to zero. 

 

On 4/7/2018 at 1:35 PM, Christian said:

Actually that's not always true - My V830 actually appreciated when the insurance company "bought" it at agreed value after it got hit by lightning and totaled :rolleyes:

 

Okay, so the advice is that one option is to get a one design, sail it and eventually sell it.

The second option is to get an esoteric and stand it in the middle of a field in thunderstorms. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/11/2018 at 2:55 PM, overdraft said:

ya, looks great... i remember when i used to have abs... now I'm happy to go"less" fast without killing myself  having fun... my head tells me Im old!

We have a saying in our family. ..."You are never too old to hike"

When you see 80+ year old lightening sailors (who dont have a bulb on their keel) whup the young uns (the 50 year olds) , you will realize that its not about the years, its about the head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/9/2018 at 10:22 AM, overdraft said:

Love mine... I believe you need a bunch of crew for the Viper... we seem to do OK with 4 on the 23R... 241 isn't in the same bracket as even the PR22 nevermind the Rocket 22. I had a PR22 and test sailed a Rocket22... big difference obviously so as great a boat as the PR22 is for it's day, it's also a performance rung down from the rest of your list. 

23R lit up.jpg

But why do you have a FE23, when there is 9 melges in your club?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the Fareast is inexpensive, responsive and can win the pickle dishes out from under the Melges? 

No offence to the Melges intended.

I have the 28. Waterline length is a consideration...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Irish River said:

But why do you have a FE23, when there is 9 melges in your club?  

1.hate drysailing

2. like to fiddle with boats so not that interested in a class so closed that you can’t improve stuff

3. easier to get 4 crew together than 5

4. old enough to have seen fleets come and go so less easily seduced by what’s around now.... (rip OD starts for: Cal20, t-bird, J24, hotfoot20, hotfoot 27, martin 242, star, etchells)

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, overdraft said:

1.hate drysailing

2. like to fiddle with boats so not that interested in a class so closed that you can’t improve stuff

3. easier to get 4 crew together than 5

4. old enough to have seen fleets come and go so less easily seduced by what’s around now.... (rip OD starts for: Cal20, t-bird, J24, hotfoot20, hotfoot 27, martin 242, star, etchells)

:)

I hear,

fat, old and lazy with no friends.  (Joking) :) :)

But I get what you are saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now