• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

Would anyone be interested/excited about an R2AK inspired race to Tierra del Fuego?

It’s 1090nm from Puerto Montt to Ushuaia.  All but two sections can be navigated in inland channels.  Smallish boats, no motors.  Sail, row, pedal.

Last year my R2AK experience was incredible.  The only disappointment was that it was over so quickly.  I could have gone again right then and there.  What would be next level? Me thinks Patagonia!  I’ve been wanting to visit Patagonia for years.  I’ve got a new boat (one with a cabin).  So why not?  The beauty of high latitude sailing and the navigational challenges of racing in fjords is a whole different thing than ocean racing and for me has a special appeal.

The R2AK organizers do an incredible job with their event.  But they benefit from proximity to a large Pacific NW sailing fleet.  What would it take to attract 20-30 crazies to Chile?  One idea is providing logistical support in the form of barge transport for the fleet from some West Coast US city to the start and return from the finish.  Obviously this would be a multi-month commitment for the boats if not the crews. Another idea is providing sat phones and professional weather forecasting to the fleet.

Am I tripping?  Would anybody do this with me?

594f58f8b7622_RacetoTierradelFuego.thumb.jpg.dfa6e605d81da746f3eeb0084b90fccd.jpg

594f58f7be3ee_BeagleChannel.jpg.5152ac982c18777347d10550b98403d5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look fantastic - and that would be a fascinating race. 

But situated in North Eu - very far - but I can see that its not that far from US-west coast. 

Since this R2AK start I have been thinking that my home country would be ideal for such a race. The pic is similar to things you can see here - and the most of the coast can be done in inside route with a few exceptions. And Norway has easy access from all north EU by boat - very good plane connections even to US west coast. Boats could be bought and sold here for those who came from far away. But container shipping is also possible. And talking about high attitudes - Kap Horn is about 55" south -but Oslo is 60" north - and the race would pass the Arctic circle at 67" and maybe end in Lofoten at 68" or at Tromsø at almost 70" north. The last part of the race would be sailed in 24hours of sun....

Distance Bergen - Lofoten is about 600nm

Oslo-Lofoten: 950nm

Oslo-Tromsø: 1100nm

A race here wouldnt compete with a Chile race I guess. The race in Chile would be at their summer  - thats in december-januar , in Norway it would be June-July.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May be hard to organize. Boats are supposed to report in daily and this seems to be abused. See last comment.http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Chile/PuertoMontt

Weather is similar to here, with NW winds in rainy weather and easterly off the mountains.

2nd largest salmon producer. Lots of these.

" the waters of Seno Reloncavi are fished intensively and a favourite float for marking nets and lines is the empty Coke bottle... it is not a nice place to be in the dark.. "

" I have heard it said - by locals - that the #1 occupation of the locals is thieving and I would tend not to disagree. In fact the only gringos I have met that haven't been robbed are in my opinion simply victims in waiting. Puerto Montt is not alone in this regard.. Vina del Mar.. Santiago .. they all have their problems. "

http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Puerto_Montt

Boats locally?

" With a heavy dose of explorer’s gumption, small groups can also navigate the remotest parts of the region by sailboat. Puerto Williams-based SIM Expeditions (simltd.com) is an experienced outfitter offering two-week voyages to Cape Horn and the Darwin Range. "

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/south-america/travel-tips-and-articles/sailing-south-patagonia-by-sea/40625c8c-8a11-5710-a052-1479d276d3b2

They already have a party tradition, the Curanto. http://www.nineofcups.com/puerto_montt.html

Beautiful.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Randy,

i have some good friends who have done this route, as well as R2AK in reverse, as as part of their pacific rim circuit from Tasmania, including Cape Horn and up the east coast to Panama and them back across to Tasmania...... From what they tell me, it is very much as Norse Horse has described. Also hard to get spare parts and the squalls off the mountains can be more severe than BC so you would be lucky to do it non stop.

My youngest son's partner and In laws are Chilean, so you never know, if I ever do R2AK, I may as well sail down and do your race as well if it gets off the ground.

Rob

Edited by Rob Zabukovec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't call it my race just yet. It's only an idea at the moment. I'm merely trying to guage interest and suss out whatever big issues there might be.

Would an R2AKesq cash prize motivate people?

Does Norway make more sense than Chile? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Safety issues is no problem in Norway - also resque capacity is very good due to the oil and fish industry - fast mobile connection all the way -would make media work easy. You have the big ocean passages - and the sheltered ways - very good charts - one could have a stop in one of the bigger fjords - the coast is not as remote as the Canadian Western coast - its people living everywhere more or less. No problem with logs - temperature - can be all from 25celsius to almost freezing. Big advantage - the light - even in Oslo there 20hours of light in midsummer. Even from San Fran - you can get to Oslo in 15-16 hrs with one stop and for about 300+USD two ways. You could get sailors from France, Holland UK Germany and all Scandinavia. The US$ is very strong to NOK so even expensive - Norway is at its cheapest now to $ and €. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably the potential to get a lot more multihulls/trimarans in the race in Norway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think both Chile and Norway make sense.  Norway more for me since I have family in Bergen and can make all arrangements and my HQ there...if the race comes to fruition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that it would be easier to get a fleet assembled in Norway. But the route itself looks much more exposed. I'm just looking at Google maps, no charts. It seems like the fjords cut deep inland but that there aren't a lot of connecting channels. Would an engineless race up Norway's coast be more or less exposed than R2AK?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the southern tip its a strecth that is exposed - no shelter from the North Sea south-western winds and waves. But one can start i Stavanger or Bergen. There is certain points and stretches that are exposed from there and northbound -like Stadt and Frohavet -if the weather is bad -small boats will have to wait to pass these stretches.  but there are mostly sheltered routes to take - and lots of harbors to go in to. This coast have been sailed in small boats for  1000 years so there is a lot of knowlegde and infrastucture. The navigation can be challenging but the charts and marking of the lanes are good - also at night by lighthouses. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Patagonia race is something you could definitely get people to get on board with. Due to logistics etc it would probably more likely be a every three years type thing.  Probably the best thing to start with is the Chilean gov or their tourism equivalent.  There could be a decent amount of support there.  It looks like one of the rare places where the same range of vessels from foiling cats to sups could have a go at it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

really don't want to spoil the fun, and in no way I would claim to be THE expert, but having sailed from Puerto Montt with a guy who usually is referred to as one of the ultimate references of that area, and I have just asked him about your project... answer was a plain NO.

consider that the armada (=army) is still pretty much in control, they do not like singlehanders, they need you to report on daily basis on your whereabouts, and nothing happens if they have not agreed to it, there is little chance you can pull this one off.

conditions overthere are also a bit more severe than what we are used to, yes even you in the PNW ... 4 seasons in one day is not a joke overthere, it's bloody reality.

would be nice if you would be able to pull it off, don't want to be negative, but better opt for Norway (not unkwown to this one either) , but Chili would require you to have so much backup, safety crew and yada yada that you might think you'd be on an AC campaign ... not really budget friendly either, rather budget fiendly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the category of off the grid races I always thought the Aluetian chain is up there.  Obviously a sail only, start and finish at Unimak pass, lap Attu and back, mid race stop off or check point at Adak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chile doesn't sound very optimal.  (probably one of the attractions though).  How about making completion of the R2AK, simply the 2nd leg of a multi leg trek with stops in Valdez, Prince William Sound and a finish in Kodiak?  Norway would be a 'technical' challenge a bit more perhaps but how friendly are their rescue services to folks who have a voluntary and higher risk than normal?  They are quite safety oriented and may impose a bit more structure to the program. (NTTIAWWT)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could always make a Super R2AK, for the top of the fleet, by having the second leg the return to PT, Victoria, Van.. Have a check point in the HaidaGwaa, then you go offshore all the way.

The N2AC idea appeals to me to race to the Arctic Circle area. Lots of fam over there, mom from Vardo...Much better area to buy a shitbox for the race. There are a few other races to try not to overlap. There are some challenges. Some locals would need to be on board, fundy page.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for "safety oriented" -  even base-jumping and mountain climbing are looked upon like - its nature -it is to be used - and if we have to rescue some - we do it for free.

A membership in https://www.redningsselskapet.no/english/ would be fine - 995NOK.  The race would be under ordinary seaman rules . A class for classic/traditional boats would get the locals along the coast onboard (a little more class under-divide could be suitable - but keep the bigger overall prize). Maybe a fully crewed viking-ship would be a good contender? 

As for passing the most notorius spot - the Stadt - one can do as the vikings did - drag the boat over land - not a joke they did that - but had an army to do it. But SUPs and kajakks and small boats could really do that.

Sponsors should be Helly Hansen and some telecom-company - they have a lot competition and are international. Also lokal kommunes - could be partners - they like to be exposed most of them. Tourism is on the rise along the coast. 

If its to easy in the summer -one could do the race in late Mars or April - start in springtime western fjord - and end up in the arctic winter - but with about 50% daylight - the really though ones can start in December.... 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its clear that the Norwegian cost is more open and has some more challenging navigation, its exposed to the North Atlantic and even sheltered route will be in typical coastal areas - no big forest with grizzlys here - but the long coastal heritage is visible all the way. Logs no problem - but 1000of small polished by the iceage rocks all along the route - and some not so polished. In good visibility this navigation will be rather easy - just go where the color is dark.... in bad weather and at night (even few hrs of dark there can be som in rain and clouds)  - one will have to trust the gps - if that fail in such conditions - seek shelter.

But as said before - is is several options that small boats can take a land route - as the people did before - and avoid a open stretch in heavy conditions.

Looking at the coast on a satelite foto - the coast can seem scaring - but in a boat - it can be really fantastic - and what seems a very narrow passage is no problem in real. 

 

Here is charts to study: https://kart.gulesider.no/?c=63.000000,11.250000&z=5&l=nautical

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didnt see the hole kajakk-vid, but seemed they had some problems, not only from nature - the weather was really bad - didnt see the sun on those clips.

Compare to Norway -or R2AK - the challenge will be big in Chile thats for sure - to organize and the do the race.

I think any race based on the R2AK basic idea - must adapt to the place where the race is - and organize according to the local situation.

In Norway we have some notorious stretches that can be really bad if the weather pics up - there is 3 way to do that; just deal with the conditions - need a good boat and skilled sailors - then wait out the weather or to drag the boat over land; those latest options was used before and will work today too. 

The weather in summer -isnt usually bad - so most of the time the worst parts will be open - at least to a tri or similar from 22ft and up. Small leadmines -like IF will be able to do these part most of the time in summer.  A bigger tri - at 30ft - will be able to go out to sea and do the hole strech in a few days if the weather is good. There has to be some point to pass - or limit the options of routes to avoid that to happend - no fun for anyone. To divide in classes - under 20" would be good - and a class for tradition boats - maybe "landdraggers" can be one class. 

The coast is not remote - it populated all the way, so its not wilderness - but a lot of history and old and new infrastructure.

If one put a prize of €10000 I think it will get a lot publicity and a good number of participants. The "green" approach is spot on.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kayak video had them paddling with 12 days of rain, even snow. Certainly a serious place. Note the customs snafu they had.

 

The appeal of the Northern Norway location is crossing the AC or reaching NordKapp. A start north of The Stad would likely be required then.

Look at the break at Stadlandet peninsula. One clip of storm conditions and a bit of weather for swells.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On June 24, 2017 at 11:33 PM, RandyM81 said:

Would anyone be interested/excited about an R2AK inspired race to Tierra del Fuego?

It’s 1090nm from Puerto Montt to Ushuaia.  All but two sections can be navigated in inland channels.  Smallish boats, no motors.  Sail, row, pedal.

Last year my R2AK experience was incredible.  The only disappointment was that it was over so quickly.  I could have gone again right then and there.  What would be next level? Me thinks Patagonia!  I’ve been wanting to visit Patagonia for years.  I’ve got a new boat (one with a cabin).  So why not?  The beauty of high latitude sailing and the navigational challenges of racing in fjords is a whole different thing than ocean racing and for me has a special appeal.

The R2AK organizers do an incredible job with their event.  But they benefit from proximity to a large Pacific NW sailing fleet.  What would it take to attract 20-30 crazies to Chile?  One idea is providing logistical support in the form of barge transport for the fleet from some West Coast US city to the start and return from the finish.  Obviously this would be a multi-month commitment for the boats if not the crews. Another idea is providing sat phones and professional weather forecasting to the fleet.

Am I tripping?  Would anybody do this with me?

594f58f8b7622_RacetoTierradelFuego.thumb.jpg.dfa6e605d81da746f3eeb0084b90fccd.jpg

594f58f7be3ee_BeagleChannel.jpg.5152ac982c18777347d10550b98403d5.jpg

I told Karl, HOG, about this thread and he's all in, but of course he is....

in some aspects it like doing a climb, maybe less of a emphasis on the race part to the officials and more of a planned voyage. Keep it small and see what happens, you only need one other entry to race....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing. HOG just paddled 700 miles to Alaska on a SUP and is all in to SUP to Tierra Del Fuego. We're not worthy! 

Norway would be something. But Patagonia has a special appeal to me. I can see that enticing a fleet would be difficult. Maybe it doesn't have to be a race. But making it a race creates a focus that I needed, at least for R2AK. Can't explain why. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

The appeal of the Northern Norway location is crossing the AC or reaching NordKapp. A start north of The Stad would likely be required then.

Look at the break at Stadlandet peninsula. One clip of storm conditions and a bit of weather for swells.

 

North of Tromsø - ist another challenge - but I can see the reason to go to Nordkapp - that is known - that is actually not the mostnorthern tip og Norway as you may think - but its the most known spot. But Finnmark is a notch up according to the elements; far north and the weather can look more like Tierra del Fuego at times.

Knivskjellodden or Knivskjelodden is a peninsula located in Nordkapp Municipality in Finnmark county, Norway. It is the northernmost point on the island of Magerøya in Northern Norway. It is sometimes considered the northernmost point of the entire continent of Europe. The nearby Kinnarodden on the Nordkinn Peninsula is the northernmost point on the mainland.[1]

Knivskjellodden is 71.2 North - so here you can get snow in summer, and you face the Barents Sea - and this is the most northern tip in mainland Europe.

Its is no natural end stop here - one can go around Magerøya and back to Alta - that has good connections or take the full monty - going all the way to Kirkenes - next to Russia. That last stretch has som exposed parts but also som interesting possibilities to drag and use Tana river.

Tromsø - Nordkapp is about 180nm and to Kirkenes about the same - so it would be 360nm from Tromsø. 

Start in Ålesund or Trondheim could make a total of 900-1000nm - and more than half of that would be north of the Arctic circle witch is just south of Bodø at 67N.

Stadt will not be the biggest challenge here - the problem there and some other places is not the surf - thats just by the beach - but confusing big seas that can occur in special conditions out in the lane where the ships goes. But the gov. has decided to build a shipping tunnel through Stadt  - so... 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tierra Del Fuego - look at parts more like R2AK area - theres is bigger channels and forested shores for the northern part of the route. One big exposed area - that seems to be something like 140nm around there.

The last half of the route will be extremely challenging compare to both Alaska and Norway. But I wouldnt go there in a reasonable boat - without rounding Cape Horn a few nm south?  Think this is more like an expedition than a race. The southern part seem very remote - and if something happens it can probably take days to get assistance. 

At 3000mm rain and 9celcius average at summer - compare to Vadsø at 550mm and 11 cel - the climate is much worse than Nordkapp. Think also the sea temp. will be lower -and that is an important figure. 

The challenge of Tierra D F - is great - Alaska and Norway is more like holiday trips... 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...seems like Randy has already gone to Patagonia..

 

 

...But all these places - Im not sure a race is the right ting - if its first time there -its so much to see and explore - so if you take a fast boat and really do a race in 4-5 days with extreme sailing you just get a look at what you pass. 

Could be something like a Tree Peaks Race is a ting to do - also with more stops - maybe try to keep the boats closer together - that would be necessary in Patagonia at least for safety reasons. 

 

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/2/2017 at 11:13 PM, SeaGul said:

...seems like Randy has already gone to Patagonia...

 Not Patagonia, the San Juan islands. 

In any event, I can see that getting a fleet assembled to race to Tierra Del Fuego would be unlikely without a local fleet already active in Southern Chile. Despite R2AK's international draw, 80% of the teams were local to the race area. 

I know there's a transient cruising fleet always moving around through southern Chile, but I've never heard of any racing down there.

I haven't gotten an overwhelming response to this thread. It seems like this might need to be a solo or 2-3 boat adventure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

race in canals patagonicos,

for

1/ wind will or should be behind all the way south

2/ there is one stop and one stop only on the course south at Puerto Eden which is virtually inaccessible by air and on an island so no road even remotely close

3/ Puerto Natalles is quite a distance from the main Canal Sarmiento but "doable" and really the only road link in the whole trip

4/ the domestic vino tinto is pretty good and comes in big flagons

5/ all the way though the canales are full of shell fish and crab (centolla is same as Alaskan king  crab) so never short of a feed

6/ pure sweet water is available everywhere should the vino option not appeal

 

against

1/ the Chilean armada consider this an extreme case of voyage planning and a constant display of shipwrecks along the way prove this to be so

2/ Due to the above, boats/ ships/ whatever are issued a "zarpa" which stipulates just where you can and cant go as well as a timeframe for transitting, and yes the armada consider it a transit as they don't want anyone hanging around indefinitely in the canales

3/ major corners to get around/ through would be from Bahia Anna Pink into the gulf of penas and into the channels around Isla Wager......most all a lee shore, the other nasty is from Sarmiento into the straights of Magellan around Isla Tamar..a very nasty corner

4/ chances are the Zarpa would have you stop at Punta Arenas

5/ the passage south via brecknock is pretty open in places and whats coming in the gaps is outhern ocean shit........BIG

6/ Due to the white spy/ black spy games the Argies and Chilenos play the fleet would need to clear from Puerto Williams to get to Ushuaia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in Punta Arenas, Puerto Natales and Ushuaia  last December.  First of all, it's stinkin' gorgeous.

We did a cruise (Australis) from Punta Arenas to Cape Horn and from there to Ushuaia. You are out there. Like, there is *Nothing* and nobody to help along the way.  Punta Arenas is wide open to the Strait of Magellan, it's just that the prevailing wind direction minimizes the fetch.  Imagine my surprise to put up in Ushuaia and see 40+ sailboats...many voyagers but also at least a dozen local 25-footers, in the harbor. There's even a little boatyard.

However, most of the trip was in fact in relatively narrow channels completely protected from the ocean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2-3 similar fast boats as an expedition would be a good option. Remember to take some GoPros and a drone - so you can make a film for us Mac-heroes to see after.

 

....of c - a drone could get the attention of some - put the film on YT before you are jailed...

 

Heres a movie where they use drone - this is holiday on a condomaran - image 2-3 fast tris in Patagonia - and some more edit - it would be YT-oscar (and may attract sponsors if you plan it)... The route here is from south of Bergen up to Lofoten - with some fjords...  3 more part on YT

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, R2CapeHorn! What a great idea!  But.

I've taken my F27 in the R2AK. Fun! Not that big a deal, really, in a decent boat with good judgement. And help is quite close at hand in BC. "Two hours in an emergency" is great.

I've sailed for about  2 years south of Puerto Montt in my 36' steel cruiser. Lots of fun. Mostly type 2 , some 3. Really, quite windy. It is really windy. There is a lot of wind. The wind gets fresh. Lots windier than BC. Never seen a real williwaw in BC except occasionally in the winter in a cliffy cove in a SE gale; could occur but I havent seen them here. Common in Chile and the Aleutians. Can't imagine staying upright in a little multi in a decent williwaw.

An O'day 27 though, you could do it in that! 

We're not all Freya Hoffmeisters or Bill Tillmans. I'm sure they'd be fine, or die trying without popping the spot beacon

I've sailed in the Aleutians from Unalaska and east (tried to get to Adak but ran out of time with gales etc).

I would not take my little delicate toy trimaran around and south of Cabo Raper into the Golfo de Penas. But that's just me. Maybe launch at Puerto Natales and do an expedition type race from there. Or maybe start at Puerto Montt and go as far as Quellon on Isla Chiloe in the Golfo de Corcovado. That northern area is beautiful and less tempestuous. But I'd want a boat that could take a hard rocky grounding repeatedly and get off, for the southern half. Which I had.

South of Cabo Raper it is much colder than the north coast of BC, and that's not warm.

There is an adventure race : kayaks and by foot that runs along the Beagle called the Patagonia Adventure Race or similar. They had to cancel the year we were there due to wind.

The armada wanted daily check-ins (email is OK) not for bureaucratic reasons but because semi-prepared and unlucky foreign yachtsmen are always getting into trouble in the southern areas and the limited rescue resources want a recent last known position to pluck them from their beached or sunk vessels. 

The very few Chileans living in the channels were without exception generous and kind. The charter boat skippers were also friendly and helpful, and experienced and generally epic. I'd hate to tax their generosity with a fleet of more than usually delicate adventurers, such as we would be.

Thanks for the idea. It's cool to think about. And dream. Norway, hmmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, pacifica said:

Wow, R2CapeHorn! What a great idea!  But.

I've taken my F27 in the R2AK. Fun! Not that big a deal, really, in a decent boat with good judgement. And help is quite close at hand in BC. "Two hours in an emergency" is great.

I've sailed for about  2 years south of Puerto Montt in my 36' steel cruiser. Lots of fun. Mostly type 2 , some 3. Really, quite windy. It is really windy. There is a lot of wind. The wind gets fresh. Lots windier than BC. Never seen a real williwaw in BC except occasionally in the winter in a cliffy cove in a SE gale; could occur but I havent seen them here. Common in Chile and the Aleutians. Can't imagine staying upright in a little multi in a decent williwaw.

An O'day 27 though, you could do it in that! 

We're not all Freya Hoffmeisters or Bill Tillmans. I'm sure they'd be fine, or die trying without popping the spot beacon

I've sailed in the Aleutians from Unalaska and east (tried to get to Adak but ran out of time with gales etc).

I would not take my little delicate toy trimaran around and south of Cabo Raper into the Golfo de Penas.

 

...some will understand that this was not the best idea... but others will think - what the hell - they go kayaking and I cant sail my tri?? 

This williwaw-wind is known all around the world at different names - we have stories here with fatal outcome too - so thats something that can happen - but it seems the problem is bigger in certain areas and this is one of them. How many time did a williwaw hit during the two years of sailing? So how big is the risk really, can one avoid certain places where they might occur - based on the landscape? And if hit - with bare poles a 30 tri with open trampolines - head on or right downwind - it will really take a strong wind to flip it. Even if flipped - its not the end - one can plan for that too. 

As for groundings; a small tri can avoid this problem - flip up rudders and dagger - or spare dagger - or fix it. And you wil in most conditions be able to see the grounds that are a danger to you. 

Norway - is holiday material - compared to Patagonia - but a race could be done with probably lots of boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The R2AK has got our yacht club thinking about something similar. A  Seward-Cordova/Valdez race.  Other than the short shot across the gulf little boats would thrive in Prince William Sound, open it up to paddlers to boost the numbers. Not a big enough local fleet that is down to race to make it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking about latitudes - you have to go north og Bering Strait to get to 67 -Arctic Circle and midnight sun - or the the South Pole  - or Norway - because the Golf-current the climate in Noway are pleasant compare to the other options to go real far north. You can go north of Hudson Bay in Canada or half way up the Greenland coast..

If you really want to the Arctic you can go to Svalbard for Nordkapp. 

Børge Ousland & Co took a Corsair 31 and went easward around the North Pole some years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a similar adventure - but not a race - part of the same route as Ousland & Co did with the Corsair 31 ....   singlehanded in a smaller cat than the M32 - on one hull - seem not the obvious choice of boat - but very french? 

 

http://ledefibimedia.com

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/07/2017 at 3:59 PM, SeaGul said:

 

...some will understand that this was not the best idea... but others will think - what the hell - they go kayaking and I cant sail my tri?? 

This williwaw-wind is known all around the world at different names - we have stories here with fatal outcome too - so thats something that can happen - but it seems the problem is bigger in certain areas and this is one of them. How many time did a williwaw hit during the two years of sailing? So how big is the risk really, can one avoid certain places where they might occur - based on the landscape? And if hit - with bare poles a 30 tri with open trampolines - head on or right downwind - it will really take a strong wind to flip it. Even if flipped - its not the end - one can plan for that too. 

As for groundings; a small tri can avoid this problem - flip up rudders and dagger - or spare dagger - or fix it. And you wil in most conditions be able to see the grounds that are a danger to you. 

Norway - is holiday material - compared to Patagonia - but a race could be done with probably lots of boats.

They don't have williwaws in Patagonia... they have rachas... and No.. you can't avoid 'racha country'.    Rachas come in several forms.... both involve the wind going from zero to 70 plus in an instant... in either case you really don't want any sail up which is why you don't sail at night. How often have I had dealings with rachas? Often enough to have lost two sets of wind instruments over the years. Over time you learn what a 'racha day' looks like and sail very conservatively... ie no main and very little jib that you can get rid of muy pronto. Apart from that just a common ordinary wind can build from pleasant to shit at very short notice and this sort of thing doesn't show on any gribs.

Most times between Montt and Williams or return I end up sitting out 10 or 12 'wait on weather' days.... and that is often with the wind going my way..

Doubt you would get a zarpe for any sort of race... even getting one for an individual single handed yacht can be problematic.... depending on the yacht. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Olson 29, sailing in the gulf...between Isla Chiloe and the mainland...south of Puerto Montt  These guys have a couple of sailing videos up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can sail just about any sort of boat anywhere in Chilean Patagonia at any time of year....... RP6100153.thumb.jpg.34c3630c497f737b5cfc909912d24545.jpgacing from Montt to Williams is another matter.

 

These are Puerto Williams Sailing School ( I kid you not ) Oppies out sailing on a saturday afternoon about 5 weeks ago... about 10 days before the winter solstice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To probably put the Chile race to bed.... read this one http://thepocketyacht.blogspot.com .  Howard had great experience and relationships with the Chilean Navy.  He was able to assuage their concerns and demonstrate preparedness and utmost cooperation.  

He nearly died.

His descriptions of the wind, the racha, and his survival experience should make anyone pretty sober regarding the conditions.  Sure, it was a small boat, but multihulls would also be pretty vulnerable.  I love multi's but I don't think I'd take one down there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that was a small boat 12ft....   I would rather be in a 25-30ft trimaran on that trip. Could also be self-rightened - and be exposed 1/4 of the time by being much faster. And I think with crew you get so much more security.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. It was a small boat.  What struck me most however was 1) how muchpreparation /inv olvement it took with the Navy to even get their support. Any proposed race like, say, an R2CHorn, would need a LOT of good will up front and throughout.  2) the conditions described would be likely to overpower most any multihull.  Especially 20-30'ers.  These conditions were during the best season and still caught an experienced ( in these waters) sailor who had not anticipated such severity. 

It's one thing to theoretically be prepared behind a computer monitor but there are very few who would be prepared for these conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Veeger said:

To probably put the Chile race to bed.... read this one http://thepocketyacht.blogspot.com .  Howard had great experience and relationships with the Chilean Navy.  He was able to assuage their concerns and demonstrate preparedness and utmost cooperation.  

He nearly died.

His descriptions of the wind, the racha, and his survival experience should make anyone pretty sober regarding the conditions.  Sure, it was a small boat, but multihulls would also be pretty vulnerable.  I love multi's but I don't think I'd take one down there...

Veeger, I searched tho whole blog twice and it can´t find the tale of the sail and the problems he had... all I can find is what happened before and after. Seems the sail was in Jan/Feb, and the boat rescue in March.

can you point me to where you saw the sailing stuff? sorry, but I just can´t find it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have to do some research.  I read his description of the conditions he encountered someplace (may have been a FB page).  I've been following John Welsford, the designer of the SCAMP and it may have been in amongst some other pages.  I believe he describes the scamp being virtually lifted up and capsized while moored in a hidey-hole and without sail...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what i read in the blog - the boat was blown ashore from anchor - and he got cyclon wind force at 60-70kn and peaked at 100 - but was he sailing then? 

I find the blog hard to follow - dont find the real action - about the sailing in the 12ft boat. What was the route sailed - and how long did it take.

But to do the sail in a 12ft "survival egg" maybe be possible - but I rather would be in a 30 tri with 2-3 other crew and maybe even 2-3 other similar boats.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

Heres a Swede that har worked long time with small type of survival boats: http://www.yrvind.com

... hes a strange man - and his design will probably feel more like a coffin to sail... but maybe survive..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patagonia could be emulated by sailing in late october or early nov here in the PNW. A RAID race then would be plenty exciting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/06/2017 at 7:43 PM, Albatros said:

really don't want to spoil the fun, and in no way I would claim to be THE expert, but having sailed from Puerto Montt with a guy who usually is referred to as one of the ultimate references of that area, and I have just asked him about your project... answer was a plain NO.

consider that the armada (=army) is still pretty much in control, they do not like singlehanders, they need you to report on daily basis on your whereabouts, and nothing happens if they have not agreed to it, there is little chance you can pull this one off.

conditions overthere are also a bit more severe than what we are used to, yes even you in the PNW ... 4 seasons in one day is not a joke overthere, it's bloody reality.

would be nice if you would be able to pull it off, don't want to be negative, but better opt for Norway (not unkwown to this one either) , but Chili would require you to have so much backup, safety crew and yada yada that you might think you'd be on an AC campaign ... not really budget friendly either, rather budget fiendly.

"armada" would be the navy, not the army - this would be  "el ejército".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2017 at 9:12 AM, Norse Horse said:

Patagonia could be emulated by sailing in late october or early nov here in the PNW. A RAID race then would be plenty exciting.

Not even close in comparison. I've rarely ever felt a williwaw in the PNW. In Patagonia it's a regular occurrence. I think the OP just found the biggest sailboat racing challenge outside of round the world via the great capes. It's pretty shitty down there. On my last trip to El Chalten I spent only one day out of six outside hiking. The rest was sitting indoors waiting for the weather to calm down. I left in a blizzard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now